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Conservative Lord Fowler: If Parliament values people equally, it must make same-sex marriage legal

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  1. I was fortunate enough to watch this impassioned speech on BBC Parliament yesterday.

    Fowler did a lot on HIV and I’m grateful for that.

    I’m also encouraged to see someone who didn’t support lowering the age of consent now supporting gay rights. Attitudes change over time.

    Good on him.

  2. Good grief, what great words from a Tory of all people!

    I like the way the he also raised the death penalty etc in other countries and how the church is not doing anything, I hope that those Bishops present hung their heads in shame?

    Also, his comments about this not being in the manifesto. If only all other politicians who complain that equal marriage was not in the manifesto would remember that too.

    And he is absolutely right to remind the others in the Lords that they should not stop this legislation and remind them that the MPs are elected to represent the people.

    Good on him!

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 10 May 2013, 12:19pm

      They should be reminded that the important NHS reforms weren’t in the manifesto either. It’s a red herring in this debate of course. They know it too!

  3. The phrase “noble Lord” actually seems to fit in this case. His speech is full of good strong arguments.

    The House of Lords needs to be reformed – or replaced, actually – but in the meantime, it’s good to see at least some wise and good hearts there.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 10 May 2013, 12:17pm

      I wouldn’t be surprised if there are many others like him. Let’s not forget all of those hereditary peers have gone, the old school dinosaurs although there are some remnants still left in the current House but hardly as many as there once was. I think emphasis on the huge free vote result on February 5th will play a significant role as a reminder to them that the real power lies within the Commons. It was a very wise move by all 3 party leaders to not have a whipped vote. The vote in February was extremely significant reflecting the majority in favour in spite of some opposition. It was a huge majority which should carry a lot of weight.

  4. Well done that man! A reasoned case to support equality, a good argument to the Lords not to block the bills passage, and a telling off for the Bishops all in one go :)

  5. Jock S. Trap 10 May 2013, 10:58am

    Wow… go Lord Fowler. A man that speaks sense.

    Let’s hope other follow his lead and get this damn Bill through already!

  6. Well said Lord Fowler, eloquently put. If only more of their Lordships were as reasoned as you are, then the HoL would be a better place.

  7. Equality of the people should come before anything.
    It should come before an established church or the monarchy.
    It should come before the state itself and when we get a proper and written constitution, should be the first words.

  8. Fantasic speech and spot on…

    Great reply to Lord Cormack , hope the others in the HoL were listening……”We are not entitled to defeat the will of the Commons on an issue of this kind: one that was decided, I repeat, on a free vote…..They are the only ones elected to Westminster. They take their authority from their elected position and they lose it when they leave. They have been elected by the people and they are answerable to the people”

  9. Robert in S. Kensington 10 May 2013, 12:12pm

    Fantastic, brilliant speech. Lord Fowler truly gets what equality means and how refreshing to hear from an informed Lord on the subject. The manifesto reference was well put and explained eloquently. Any of them with any doubts should pay careful attention to every word Lord Fowler spoke and support his statement, putting personal opinions aside. I loved that he reminded them that it is the Commons with a huge majority in a free vote that does not entitle the Lords to reject the bill. Marvellous to hear it. We owe Lord Fowler a debt of gratitude and others like him. I’m definitely going to write to him to commend and thank him for his support. We all should as well as write to those in opposition without further delay.

    1. Robert,
      Thanks for the link, I have just emailed Lord Fowler to thank him for his support. I hope that others will do so as well as he should know that we appreciate such support as his.

  10. human garbage instructor 10 May 2013, 12:33pm

    Could not the same argument be made for a consenting father and son sexual relationship and marriage?
    If such ones are consenting adults and their behaviour creates no victim, is it not their own business what they do in the bedroom and should they not be able to marry if they desire to?
    The law currently does not prevent an 80 year old from marrying an 18 year old (power imbalance ) a rich person from marrying a poor person (power imbalance) nor a strong person from marrying a weak person so if gay marriage is allowed and power imbalances are legal (as they are), what grounds could the government survive a challenge of discrimination against father and son relationships, or any other consenting family union where there is no chance of congenital defect (ie male on male or sterilized female)

    1. Oh hello Keith, back yet again. and – yet again trying to bring up the subject of intrafamilial sex? Well, it has to be said that no-one could fault you for the level of your determination (even if it does verge on the deranged). What a shame it’s wasted so.

      1. Verges on the deranged? I think it’s safe to say that Keith’s padded transport got lost and crashed slap bang in the middle of Crazyland a LONG time ago.

        1. Yes, it’s funny, Keith thinks I was personally insulting whereas I thought I was being excessively, one could say unnaturally, polite.

      2. Keith my sweet, why should anyone pay any attention to the ‘issues’ you raise, since they, or rather it – since intrafamilial sex is all you bang on about, when you’re not harping on about the bible – is entirely irrelevant and even more predictably tedious? I wish you would just get the message that no-one is interested in your pointless speculation.

        “Unlikely”? I expect that’s what you thought about NZ as well. Still, it’s rather sweet you’re so concerned about countries you are unconnected to.

    2. surely thats irrevelent incest is not being discUssed… if however yoU wish to campagin and lobby and toil like the lgbt commUnity has for this bill please do so. bUt Untill that point stfU and Understand gay relationships are compareable to incestioUs ones only in the bizzare world yoU inhabit in yoUr head :/

      1. I cannot see how it could barred

        Presumably by virtue of the same mechanism that prevents a man marrying his [post-]menopausal sister. Simples.

    3. Garry Cassell 10 May 2013, 1:52pm

      Silly, silly…with your silly point , it would mean a man could marry his daughter…that is not a problem now so why should it be a problem with same sex marriage…fu****g idiot

    4. Nurse! He’s out of bed again!!

    5. I, like you, am no expert on drafting new legislation, so cannot specifically answer how equal marriage legislation will prevent parents marrying their children. I imagine it will be similar to what makes father’s marrying their daughters illegal now and on this topic, I trust the appointed people to make the right provision.
      However, I can say that over the last few years, I have read and watched many arguments for and against equal marriage rights and I cannot honestly say you are the only person who has raised this issue. The fact that this concern has occurred to you and that you continuously raise it on here, only reflects on your poor state of mind. I recommend you seek help.

  11. Wow – I can’t say I knew anything about Lord Fowler, but this speech certainly gets my wholehearted admiration.

    An opinion poll in this country suggested that many Christians in Britain believed that they were a persecuted minority. I can only say that if anyone wants to see a persecuted minority they should look at the plight of gay, lesbian and transgender people around the world.

    Stunning that a Conservative says this so forcefully.

  12. Michael 2912 10 May 2013, 1:46pm

    This is quite simply a very good thing and hopefully his words will persuade the unpersuaded and change the minds of the opposed.

  13. ..yes-I am satisfied with Lord Fowler’s comment regarding Gay rights, he pointed out correctly that if the government’s aim is to be fair and treat all persons equally then why is not same sex marriage legal? This is a blatant and rather silly hypocritical state.

  14. George Broadhead 10 May 2013, 2:06pm

    I am not usually prone to praise speeches from Conservatives but this one gets my wholehearted endorsement.

    Note in particular: “An opinion poll in this country suggested that many Christians in Britain believed that they were a persecuted minority. I can only say that if anyone wants to see a persecuted minority they should look at the plight of gay, lesbian and transgender people around the world.”

  15. It would be fantastic if you could find the video of this and then pull all the great videos of speeches together in one post, including Lammy’s…

  16. I salute Lord Fowler. I am a life-long Labour voter, but I am deeply grateful that the Tory party has made all the running on this. It is hugely to their credit and I am grateful for their actions.

  17. What a wonderful speech! How amazing it comes from a former minister in Thatcher’s government. Well done Lord Fowler!

  18. Ok so I’m anti-lords, I believe the lords should be scrapped and replaced with an elected upper house.

    that aside, Lord Fowler has my respect, he want the bill passed and the current inequality remedied, he also states that the elected house has passed the bill so the unelected house should not stop it.

    of course not to forget his work when HIV/AIDS first came to light

    Lord Fowler is a great politician, even though he’s a Lord

  19. Janet Lameck 11 May 2013, 2:40am

    If you’re not FOR equal marriage then you are agaist it and should be tossed out on your behinds the next election! Remember MP’s LGBT people also have the vote!

  20. Frank Boulton 11 May 2013, 3:55am

    Wow, Lord Norman, that must surely be the best speech that I’ve ever heard on marriage equality.

  21. GingerlyColors 11 May 2013, 10:59pm

    Norman Fowler is one of the old guard from the Thatcher era and it is great to see him supporting marriage equality. We have move on since the days of Clause 28.

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