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Estonia: Anti-same-sex partnerships petition gathers 35,000 signatures

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  1. What do you expect Russia’s puppet nations?

    1. That There Other David 5 May 2013, 1:30pm

      Out of the three Baltic States Estonia is the one least influenced by Russia.

      1. That would be Lithuania, since they don’t have Russians are less that 5% of the population.

    2. Estonia is culturally, ethnically and linguistically very close to Finland, in fact there is a degree of mutual intelligibility between Estonian and Finnish. It is more influenced by Scandinavia than Russia in many ways, in fact many Estonians consider themselves Nordic rather than part of Eastern Europe.

      Actually the only reason we consider Estonia to be “Eastern European” is because it was annexed by the Soviet Union, had the Soviets successfully done the same to Finland we would consider them “Eastern European”, which shows you how loose the term is.

  2. That There Other David 5 May 2013, 1:29pm

    Not sure why they’re surprised at that amount. A quarter of people living in Estonia are ethnic Russians, who probably watch TV beamed straight from St. Petersburg. That’s 300,000 possible signatures right there.

    However, I would hope that the other 75% would follow the lead of their traditional cultural partners Finland and Sweden. We all know that Russians are homophobes, however Estonia is a modern EU state already out from under that occupying shadow. What better way for it to show its independence than bringing in LGBT rights regardless of whatever rubbish they’re spouting in Moscow?

    1. I do believe you are incorrect with assumption. Being a native Estonian myself, I can say that majority of people in my social circle (age 20 – 30) are also against same-sex marriage / adoptions. Don’t think any of them signed this petition tho as it was by started by some religious organization. But hey, this seems to actually be something that the Estonian few christians and majority of atheists agree on.

      1. Interesting, what is the Finns attitude to LGBT rights then?

      2. You need to upgrade your “social circle”.

      3. That There Other David 6 May 2013, 9:39am

        At the beginning of the debate a majority usually are against. The difference between societies becomes apparent when the subsequent points are made in the debate Some societies realise that this doesn’t actually affect anyone other than same-sex couples, others start running around like the world will stop turning (normally under the completely disingenuous guise that children will be in some inexplicably way harmed).

        When I look at Estonia I see the former rather than the latter. I believe your country will get there, and reasonably soon.

  3. Its just the majority ganging up against a minority. Watch out- who will be next?
    Echoes of the Weimar Republic-even in the UK now with UKIP policies rapidly devolving into out and out homophobia.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 5 May 2013, 2:09pm

      I don’t know why the UKIP doesn’t merge with the BNP and get it over with, they have much in common.

  4. Modern Estonian 5 May 2013, 2:48pm

    I believe that the (quiet) majority in Estonia are rather tolerant. This negative campaign was initiated by Catholic fanatics who used Tallinn-based Catholic school to rally their troops and get as many signatures as possible. They used lots of lies and scaremongering to brainwash as many as they could – and sadly, those 35 000 have fell victims of it. London-based Estonian webzine also heavily criticised those recent events which sadly portray Estonia as still culturally similar to Russia, rather than Scandinavia – which is Estonia’s aspiration.
    http://estonianworld.com/opinion/estonia-needs-to-address-its-false-phobias/

    1. Jerry Joe 5 May 2013, 4:30pm

      Catholics again? According to wiki there only 5,745 Roman Catholics in Estonia and yet they still have influence?

      1. They would be out making demands as if they owned the place f there were only 2 of them.
        Catholic leaders are like that.

    2. just because one person jumps off a cliff does not mean you have to follow.

  5. We now know there are 35,000 stupid and homophobic Estonians, how sad for Estonia to have theseunpleasant people holding the country back.

    1. Holding them back from what, Pavios? Where do you draw the line – how about adopting the muslim polygamy thing as well? Why allow just LGBT people to get what they want – then you’d be ‘discriminating’ against other people’s desires. Child brides maybe? Sleeping with animals? Using LGBT logic – why should society object at that? Same excuses would apply – It’s not harming anyone etc etc

      “..LGBT activists lodged a complaint against the petition in April, arguing it was an incitement to social hatred…”

      Ridiculous. You could shift responsibility back onto the perpetrators and just as easily argue that LGBT, by trying to change norms which have served society well for millenia – are creating their own social hatred.

      What people do with their genitalia is their business – but most people really don’t want to know about it.

      Every unrepresentative little reactionary group like spoilt children pushes its own agenda – and twists the legal system to get what it wants.

      1. johnny33308 6 May 2013, 7:38am

        Everyone in any culture deserves exactly the same rights, so you are completely wrong here and you are certainly on the wrong side of history relative to this Human Rights issue…your descendants will be ashamed you were even in their family and you will be forgotten, hidden by your own family shame over this sort of ignorance of the real issue, that being Human Rights….faulty logic is not logic, no matter how much you might think it is, and your assertions have been used by bigots for a long time to vilify a minority….(Nazis said the same about Jews)….your ‘norm’ has not served LGBT people ever, it allows us to be murdered with impunity, violence to be committed against us, and lives destroyed over the bigotry espoused by those like yourself….homosexuality is recorded in over 1000 species and counting…it is completely natural…you need an education in facts, and reality…you will lose this fight, your opinion is valueless and a part of the past that is becoming extinct..

  6. GingerlyColors 5 May 2013, 4:54pm

    Quite alarmingly, 35,000 people makes up 2.7% of the Estonian population. Add onto that all those who oppose formal recognition of gay relationships who either did not bother or were unable to sign the petition. Estonia has a long way to go but that doesn’t mean that their government shouldn’t introduce civil partnerships or marriage equality for the minority who do want it. We are not trying to force it on everybody.

  7. Actually, if there is a country in the enitre Soviet Union that has a chance to introduce a same-sex partnership law, it’s Estonia. She’s probably the only one to do it in a non-judicial way.

    1. Modern Estonian 5 May 2013, 6:30pm

      You are correct there. There is no doubt that Estonia is more tolerant than other former Soviet republics – to start with, Estonians are not violent people. But there is still a long way to go if Estonia wants to be on par with Sweden, Finland and Norway. Unfortunately, there are still plenty of old-fashioned politicians who instead of fighting agiants homophobia, encourage it with their offensive remarks. The irony is that the most homophobic party – IRL (Pro Patria and Res Publica Union) is the one which has traditionally been also the most hostile to Russia. But when it comes to homosexuality, they find themselves sharing the views of backward Russian politics. Sad.

  8. In the attempt to change public opinion and laws in the world, one size does not fit all.

    Money is the only universal ingredient that can promote change.

    But tactics must reflect the audience.

    You cannot campaign for marriage equality in Russia or Africa today and win.

    In places like Estonia, you can educate
    people via media about how this is an issue involving love and children.

    Of course, in Russia and other places this is illegal.

  9. I’d like to think better of my country, but I guess this is the sad reality. Can’t believe this is happening in one of the most atheist places in the world. They did use particularly aggressive tactics to meet (and surpass) their goals, instead of a normal online petition they apparently sent out letters directly to the homes of 500,000 people (in a country of 1,3 million people!), so I guess 35,000 responses is still quite a small percentage… Not small enough though.

  10. johnny33308 6 May 2013, 7:27am

    Vile place, vile ignorance….living in the 15th century….

    1. That There Other David 6 May 2013, 8:40am

      Have you ever actually been to Estonia? It doesn’t match that description in the slightest.

  11. I wouldn’t draw any strong negative conclusions from this. The amount of signatures is very low considering the campaign that was had. Most people I know got a flyer in the post about ‘traditional marriage’ as well as there being stuff on the radio/TV/advertisements on the street. Really, the amount of money and care that has been spent has to be coming from abroad. This is a fringe group with a fringe group amount of signatures.

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