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UK: Ethnic minority church leaders call for same-sex marriage referendum

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  1. “Rev Adedeji said David Cameron’s vision of equality appeared to be that of a “white, liberal elite”

    And Rev Aedeji’s vision of equality appears to be that of straight bigots

    1. I once found a mouse in my cookie jar; he was very frustrated that the cookie jar was more accommodating of cookies than of him!

    2. Spanner1960 29 Apr 2013, 7:40pm

      Er… Non-white, foreign, straight bigots” to be precise.

      1. What makes you think Adedeji is ‘foreign’? I can’t find any evidence that he wasn’t born here (or that he was, either).

  2. Talk about bastardising the meaning of equality.

    1. Sister Mary Clarence 29 Apr 2013, 4:31pm

      In fairness he states, “Equality requires diversity”, but he is tripped up by his own words.

      Allowing gay people to marry is precisely that, it broadens marriage and it embodies diversity. No longer is marriage rationed for only a subset of society, but it is an institution open to all.

      The guy’s a tit

      1. Robert in S. Kensington 29 Apr 2013, 5:11pm

        Exactly right. Equal marriage affects only gay people, nobody else. It’s about expanding an already existing right to include gay people, nothing more. Sadly, none of them are capable of understanding that simple fact as well as those in Parliament who agree with them, i.e. the ringleaders Burrowes and Loughton who endorse what these nutters are saying.

  3. Mr. Adedeji writes, “The government is forcing through fundamental changes to the nature of marriage”. Not in my opinion! The nature of marriage will remain exactly the same: a loving commitment between two human beings.

    Mr. Adedeji writes, “Equality requires diversity, and diversity requires distinctiveness”. So the “equality” and diversity that Mr. Adedeji wishes for homosexual people is that we remain second-rate citizens.

    Mr. Adedeji is a HETEROSEXIST!

    1. He is an ignorant tool. The bible also says it was fine to enslave him and his kind, but rational ‘white, liberal elite’ changed that too.

      1. oi Ra you dont fight bigotry with bigotry..that is precisely ahere him and the rest are stuck at –the old testament…

        1. What exactly do you find to be bigotry in Ra’s comment, lizzie? I read it that he’s just expecting the good reverend to live up to his own standards.

  4. Yeah, because we always hold referenda on giving rights to ethnic minorities don’t we? I mean we all voted to allow the building of mosques, temples and synagogues didn’t we????

    1. And Churches

    2. Robert in S. Kensington 29 Apr 2013, 5:08pm

      A very good analogy. They’d be the first to scream ‘abuse of religious freedom and religion shouldn’t be put to referenda”. F_cking hypocrites and bigots.

    3. Colin (London) 30 Apr 2013, 11:37am

      Actually spot on Sir. Get that message out there to the main media. Well done Atheist and I share your vision.

  5. Mr Adedeji wants to be careful when proposing referendums on basic human rights.

    With UKIP and other bigoted parties gaining popularity, I doubt he’d be so keen for referndums on immigration for example.

    Don’t rock the boat – you might just fall out!

  6. I know – let’s have a referendum on whether ethnic minority people should sit at the back of the church!

  7. Equal civil rights must never be put up for a public vote.

    It really is that simple.

    1. de Villiers 29 Apr 2013, 7:42pm

      That is not always true but it is sometimes. Some rights do require public vote in order to win public support. That can be by referendum or by a general or presidential election.

      When courts discover the rights it can cause more problems – as in this way with gay rights and women’s rights in America. Because the extreme-right has not been defeated in public voting, the rights always seem to be contentious and fragile.

  8. How about ‘equality requires full legal and social equality, allowing the diverse nature of humanity to be fully expressed without negative consequences for the individual’?

    It continues to baffle me how religious extremists (anyone forcing a religious view upon others is an extremist in my book) manage to look at the issue from only one side while we constantly accept continuous legally avowed discrimination by religions. We, perhaps reluctantly but still, accept that, yet repeatedly get nothing in return.

    1. It’s because of this that we can argue points better and keep winning, so it’s a good thing that they are so wilfully blind.

      1. Yeah, you’re right and even if the current debate is lost equality will win eventually.

        It just hurts thinking about queer or questioning kids being exposed to this pushing them back in a closet where no one should have to be in to begin with. I have a religious zealot for a father and barely survived the man (and haven’t seen any member of my family for 16 years).

        We’ll win eventually, but the tragedies should stop today. Seriously.

  9. dangermouse 29 Apr 2013, 3:44pm

    PRICK !

    1. You make that sound like a bad thing :)

      1. Colin (London) 30 Apr 2013, 11:34am

        Titer titer – My boiling blood found a giggle. thanks

  10. Robert in S. Kensington 29 Apr 2013, 3:49pm

    They’re going nowhere fast. Since when do religious cults dictate to government which piece of secular civil legislation to reject, especially this particular piece that has absolutely NOTHING to do with them. They’re chanting the same mantra Tory opposition bigots have been chanting. Burrowes and Loughton are the ringleaders of course. There is no such thing as reasoned dialogue with these nutters and they wonder why secularisation is taking over. They invite it by their stupidity, ignorance and bigotry, serves them right. Oh and I bet they all say they’re not homophobic and have gay friends.

  11. Cllr Sarah Brown 29 Apr 2013, 3:56pm

    You cannot determine minority rights through a popular vote. That’s the “three wolves and a sheep voting in dinner” model of “democracy”. It’s one reason why we elect representatives.

    1. de Villiers 29 Apr 2013, 7:44pm

      You can through the election of parties that support them – such as the PS in France with gay marriage or the Labour party in England which promised gay equal rights – and the promise to consider gay marriage in England was in the manifesto of the Conservateur and Liberal parties.

  12. It doesn’t matter how many religious Asian people or Muslim people there are, their faith matters not one bit in this debate…and as I recall the Government dealt with religious, churches, and preachers/priests/snake oil salesmen issues in the existing legislation that has passed the House. I hope that the Government in the UK is not going to allow religious zealots and wing nuts…i.e. religion to drive legislation. You don’t like Gay, don’t marry one! Problem solved. Yeah, I know, you don’t want to see “the gay,” but that’s too bad, because we don’t want to see you either, but here you are.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 29 Apr 2013, 4:45pm

      I think we can safely bet that the government have no intention carrying out the wishes of religious nutters. The fact that it passed in the Commons is proof enough that they’re not going to get their way. This entire EM debate has nothing to do with anyone else but gay people, the only ones who will be directly impacted. It’s not redefining marriage one bit since there hasn’t been a sudden halt to all hetero marriages taking place if they think it harms marriage, nor has it prevented anyone from procreating. All this new legislation will do is expand an already existing right for heteros to include gay people, that’s all it does. How these nutters can say that a gay civil marriage in a registrar’s office is going to diminish religious marriage is mind-bogglingly stupid.

  13. White liberal elites don’t have a monopoly on being gay. Tell that to black pride.

    Honestly what the hell has race got to do with any of this. And now no doubt racists will use this as fuel for their pathetic fire too.

    Ha, look at this as well: “Equality requires diversity, and diversity requires distinctiveness.”

    Using this logic, the best thing for equality would be if we ended all mixed-race procreation. After all, we don’t want to lose the “distinctiveness” of black and white and asian and whatever else and become one big brown happy mass of people do we now?

    Equality doesn’t actually require diversity (although it’s nice) or distinctiveness. It just requires equality. Clue is in the name.

    1. Equality doesn’t actually require diversity (although it’s nice) or distinctiveness. It just requires equality. Clue is in the name.

      Precisely. I think it’s very safe to say the ‘Rev’ Adedeji and his chums are clueless in every possible sense.

    2. de Villiers 29 Apr 2013, 7:46pm

      I agree with that, lalocura. The rights of the individuals must be more important that the rights of the communities that their cultures be respected. In a western, secular democracy, the individual rights must come first.

  14. Xavier Bongibault 29 Apr 2013, 4:21pm

    Its ironic, that one of the most beloved arguments by supporters of same-sex marriage is: “minority rights can not be put on the ballot”. Well, it looks, that another minorities in Britain have very different opinion on this. Good.

    1. That There Other David 29 Apr 2013, 4:40pm

      What’s ironic is that your post on irony shows that you don’t understand irony. It would only be ironic in that context if said minority were wanting a referendum on their own status and rights. Understand?

    2. You really do have serious self esteem issues Xavier. Being so desperate to be accepted by the religious nutcase crowd is not an attractive aspect of your personality. Why not accept who you are and try to do the same for others? Live and let mon cher?

    3. Yes, let’s have a ballot on the reintroduction of slavery for black people.
      After all, such slavery of black people was endorsed by Christianity until comparatively recently.

    4. Robert in S. Kensington 29 Apr 2013, 5:03pm

      Get over yourself, Bongibault! The French Parliament overwhelmingly voted for equal marriage. You’re acting like a spoilt child because you didn’t get your way. Be careful what you wish for, referenda can turn around and bit you in that gallic arse of yours. How would you like it if there were a call to ban catholicism?

    5. Keep grovelling to your religious friends and one day they may grow to accept you.

      You probably have no idea how much they will inwardly despise you yet welcome your words of bigotry.

  15. JackAlison 29 Apr 2013, 4:23pm

    Rev Adedeji
    should be careful, very careful what he wishes for and also what he is suggesting. With the recent passing of Thatcher we are reminded that many communities in the UK never fully recovered and their lives and their children’s lives were irrevocably ruined by her economic ‘renewal’. In some cases they are fodder for the ultra-right nationalist parties and the first groups they go they for are dark skinned religiously diverse ethnic Britains. Rev Adedeji also must have a very short memory after the racial profiling that occured post 9/11 toward ehtnically diverse Britains. Prejudice is UGLY. You can dress it up however you like but there is always someone who is gonna cop it for being different. I would think Rev Adedeji would by now know that lesson very well!?

  16. Robert in S. Kensington 29 Apr 2013, 4:23pm

    They wouldn’t like a referendum to ban religion would they and another to disestablish the CoE once and for all? They’d claim that religion should never be put to a popular vote of course. Ignorant bloody fools. Why am I not surprised the Telegraph pedals this shite?

  17. JackAlison 29 Apr 2013, 4:27pm

    Reverend Adedeji
    should be careful, very careful what he wishes for and also what he is suggesting. With the recent passing of Thatcher we are reminded that many communities in the UK never fully recovered and their lives and their children’s lives were irrevocably ruined by her economic ‘renewal’. In some cases they are fodder for the ultra-right nationalist parties and the first groups they go they for are dark skinned religiously diverse ethnic Britains. Rev Adedeji also must have a very short memory after the racial profiling that occured post 9/11 toward ehtnically diverse Britains. Prejudice is UGLY. You can dress it up however you like but there is always someone who is gonna cop it for being different. I would think Rev Adedeji would by now know that lesson very well!?

  18. When these morons realise that Civil marriage has nothing to do with Religion!!!!

    1. That’s the problem David, they never will. We have and will continue to say that Civil Marriage has nothing to do with religion but they keep their hands firmly pressed over their ears in a “la la la can’t hear you” kind of way!

      1. I was so irritated by them I actually missed “will” out of the sentence. They really really are willfully covering their ears and sadl, I think your right, they never will.

  19. Let’s have a referendum on the tax status of religions – just a gentle starter to get us used to this referendum thing.

    1. Great idea! I know which way I would be voting!

  20. oh i do wish these cretins of the je$us myth would just STFU for a change! adedeji and his one people commission seems to think that diversity is just differing skin pigmentation. wrong! the equality argument is the same warped bile a woman from christian voices (?) on the big questions on beeb1 was espousing. it made me yawn, as does this… why appeal to torygraph readers…

  21. So they claim to represent 1 million people?
    If it were simply a numbers game I understand our own government estimates that there are at least 3.6 million of us.

  22. All credit to them for inventing the time machine.
    too bad their most creative use for it is to re-release all the talking points from the 18th century.

  23. Lets face it. Just dreadful people, nothing anyone can say will change them.

    I really don’t think they have any idea of the irony of their words. They should be the very last people demanding referenda for equal rights..

  24. “Instead of hearing our concerns, the government is taking direction from tiny faith groups to infer backing for its plans.”

    No you fools. The government is doing what 60%+ of the country supports. The fact that you are ethnic minorities has absolutely nothing to do with this. You won’t be affected by the law in any way.

  25. Should we also put the rights of ethnic minorities to a public vote?
    How absurd.
    If interracial marriage and womens rights to vote had been put to public vote, they would not have passed.
    The human rights of a minority should never be subjected to the opinions of the majority.

  26. On reflection I’m more annoyed by the hopelessly confused thinking than the overt hostility of these minority groups towards another minority — the latter is so preposterous that it deserves nothing but a contemptuous shrug.

    The only thing I find interesting about this report is that these people chose to write to The Telegraph, not the organ one would associate with the voices of ethnic minorities, by and large – or was it the only paper that stooped to print it?

    1. If they ever read the comments sections in the Telegraph they will find that ethnic minorities are not the Telegraph readers favourite groups.

    2. Robert in S. Kensington 29 Apr 2013, 7:03pm

      The Telegraph will print anything from anyone as long as it reflects its own views. It probably doesn’t care much for ethnic minorities judging from the racist commentaries from its readership over the years, but if it means traducing equal marriage or anything pertaining to LGBT people, it will print it with impunity without checking facts. Balanced journalism has never factored into anything it prints and that goes for the Mail too. Both are bastions of yellow tabloid journalism. The BBC of course isn’t squeaky clean either, right up there with them in the EM debate.

  27. “Rev Adedeji said David Cameron’s vision of equality appeared to be that of a “white, liberal elite”

    Imagine If, not that many years ago we had had referenda for equal rights for ethnic minority groups ? How soon people forget.

  28. Within my lifetime it was common for landlords to have signs in their front window saying-“No blacks, no dogs”.

    It wasn’t referenda that altered that situation but the liberal elite he now so despises.

  29. Imagine if they had actually written:

    “If the government gets its way, it will not be a victory for equality. Equality requires diversity, and diversity requires distinctiveness, and whites is always will be distinctively a better race than blacks. By from this historic foundation it would be creating a legal fiction, and consequently devaluing this vitally important race. The government is not respecting difference, and it is not promoting a plural society.”

  30. “Ethnic minorities” or majorities where I have lived in London as a minority indigenous Englishman, need to stop trying to enslave sexuality minorities with oppression. Really Black church going peoples should inform themselves of their own recent history as they can’t be so stupid to want to oppress others unless it is just exceptional ignorance of their ancestors struggles against apartheid systems.

  31. No referendum is needed: those who want to marry a person of the same sex, will be able do so. Do’s who don’t want to, for being straight and/or homophobic can abstain.

  32. 21st century where an idea has more right’s then a person! people deserve rights not idea’s!

  33. Frank Boulton 30 Apr 2013, 10:06am

    Rev Adedeji obviously needs a history lesson. Most western democracies today do not put minority rights to the vote by the majority by referenda because of what happened in Germany in the 1930’s and 40’s. The Holocaust was democratically voted for and most western nations have learned not to make the same mistake again.

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