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Marc Almond: ‘Why would gay couples want to get married in a church that thinks you are a sinner?’

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  1. Whilst I’m not religious, who is he to tell people what they can or can’t do? And what they can or can’t believe?

    His comments are completely ignorant to those LGBT people of faith who this would really matter to.

    Personally I think religion’s a load of rubbish and won’t be marrying my fella in a Church, but it’s ironic for a gay man to try and tell others what they should be doing with their lives.

    1. I think he was just expressing an opinion, rather than telling people what they can/can’t do. Calm down.

      1. He was telling a lot of Christians that their gay-affirming religion wasn’t really Christianity. That was really offensive of him.

    2. then maybe it’s time religions gays evolved like the rest of us and stop hiding behind out-dated superstitions

    3. This is not about what they should or shouldn’t do. It’s about what they can and can’t do. This is about EQUALITY. If a hetersoxual couple can marry in a church, a gay couple should be afforded the same rights. If they are not, they are being treated in a ‘discriminatory’ fashion. People just don’t seem to grasp this concept. It’s like black people in the 1960s being allowd to travcel on a bus – just not in the same part as white people. This is treating SOME people as ‘different’ – as second-class citizems. What message does that send out to young, impressionable people who may be struggling with their sexuality?

      1. Yes, but religion is not a public service, it’s a club. After all, a heterosexual Muslim or Hindu couple can’t get married in a church, can they?

        However, if you were to argue that priests in the UK shouldn’t be licensed to perform legal marriages (which should be a matter for a civil registrar), I’d agree with you wholeheartedly.

  2. Almond is preaching a segregationist sermon! I think a lot of LGBTs of his generation think like this – I think they’ve just got too used to 1980s gay ghetto mentality. I think young LGBTs, for the most part, don’t think like this and want to be included with and have the same rights as everyone else, including the option of a church wedding.

    1. Jock S. Trap 23 Apr 2013, 1:43pm

      I think there is a big divide on both the older and younger in our community. not all of course.

      The older can get stuck in the ‘1980s gay ghetto mentality’ which can be easy in life for some but not most, just as many younger take for granted the rights we have now. They don’t tend to appreciate the struggles the older generation had to get the right we all enjoy today.

      What it boils down to though, is that both can and should learn from each other.

      1. Speaking as an old fart, you are totally wrong about the older ‘generation’…at least as far as I’m concerned. It’s dangerous to make ‘generalizations’ about people. And leads to a lot worse than just prejudice.

        1. Jock S. Trap 23 Apr 2013, 3:20pm

          That’s why I put “not all of course” and “some but not most”1

        2. Jock S. Trap 23 Apr 2013, 3:23pm

          Have to add too that my comments also reflects what Should be compulsory teaching in All school. Not just LGBT Months but standard teaching of LGBT history to all.

          It would go a long way to providing a decent society.

    2. A church wedding is not a right. Are you proposing that atheists too should have the right to be married in church?

  3. Jock S. Trap 23 Apr 2013, 1:36pm

    Whilst I see his point I do have to say that whilst I don’t believe in religion I do see many Gay catholics/christians who feel there should be nothing wrong in them getting married and bless by their faith.

    However… I would also say that rather than put up with staying in such discriminating faiths why not learn about and change faiths to ones who do welcome gay couple “with open arms”.

    It would serve Christianity right if people did switch faith’s but you know what’ll come next? How “we” (the ‘wicked’ Gay people) made their members fall in number into decline.

    Truth is like too many badly managed business, they push and push but when nobody shops with them they blame all others but themselves.

  4. Fabrizio Pagan 23 Apr 2013, 1:39pm

    Almond is not telling anyone what to do. He’s merely expressing his opinion. However -as we know- ‘free speech’ isn’t something the neo-Marxists are overly keen on.

    1. His opinion is making a judgement on how other people should behave and people are entitled to state their opinion on THAT. Free speech :)

      1. People are entitled to an opinion but what he actually said isn’t “someones opinion” it is a fact. He didn’t tell anyone what they should and shouldn’t do. He asked “why would they want to”?

        If you’re going to have an opinion on what someone else says at least get the facts straight. It is a very valid question. Why would anyone gay want to get married in an anti-gay institution?

  5. Philiipp' af Sweden 23 Apr 2013, 1:46pm

    He’s right … about the church wedding and religion. Why bother? Let those dinosaurs go extinct!

  6. That There Other David 23 Apr 2013, 1:47pm

    That’s the great thing about religions, the followers pick and choose the bits that best reflect them as people anyway. The anti-gay religious types would be anti-gay even if there were no faiths.

    Allowing church weddings caters for everyone. It’s the right thing to do.

    1. All vegetarian restaurants should be forced to serve meat now. It is the right thing to do.

      1. WTF are you bitching about FOOL -

  7. burningworm 23 Apr 2013, 1:47pm

    The notion that equality is what we all strive for is outdated and nothing more than the indoctrinated self inflated ego parroting a decades worth of consensus

    We went from Liberation to equality and by way joint conservative organisations all so that we can feel justified strapping on a straight-jacket of groupthink.

    Let us privilege difference.

    1. That There Other David 23 Apr 2013, 2:03pm

      Calm down love. This is about having the choice. Nothing will be mandatory.

      1. burningworm 24 Apr 2013, 2:31pm

        Hello Love.

        I’m not suggesting that marriage will be mandatory i’m merely stating that the agenda is.

  8. IHe’s right the right wing assmimlators are setting the agenda

    1. There is no agenda James if you don’t want a marriage then don’t get one.

  9. He should really get a Civil Partnerships as soon as possible in order to protect his partner – who- without one will suffer a whole raft of disadvantages should anything happen to Marc.

    After all-his health is not good- and if you think anything of your partner-you should alwaays do everything you can to safeguard their future.

  10. Well Marc Almond could say the same about interracial Marriage as well… and for slavery .. and for degrading of women…

    1. It actually is the same question. Why would a black person want to join a church that advocated slavery and why would a woman want to join a church that thought she was a second class system.

      Religion has outlived it’s usefulness.

      1. That should have been second class citizen.

      2. Paul Brownsey 23 Apr 2013, 5:55pm

        Because you might believe that the church leadership has misrepresented the essential truths of the religion in question. That is a perfectly feasible position, even within Roman Catholicism. If you think that religion is essentially a matter of bowing down before ‘rules’ set by nasty right-wing leaders, you have a very naive view of religion.

  11. Because I became an Anglican Christian before I knew I was gay. That is why my husband and I married in the local church. The Christian Church believes ALL people are born into sin, not just gays. A question for Mr. Almond: Would you disown your family/family members if some didn’t accept you as gay but still loved you as their son or brother?

    1. Dave North 23 Apr 2013, 2:07pm

      “Sin”.

      A concept devised by the religions to facilitate control.

      Nothing more.

    2. If someone refuses to accept who you are then they cannot love you, as being you, all they love is an image they have created of you that doesn’t even resemble you. Essentially they love something that does not exist. I have this relationship with my mother, and as soon as I am financially independent I will cut her out of my life, I don’t need her undermining my confidence and denying my existence.

    3. Only a religionist could ask or conceive of such an inhuman question. That situation wouldn’t enter the head of an atheist.

      You should ask yourself what you are trying to say by conjuring that question.

    4. My point would be that whilst the Anglican Church may believe all people are born into sin it does have a habit of singling out gay people for special attention.
      Which suggests there’s a hierachy of ‘run of the mill’ sinners and then there’s those ‘gays’, who are a few steps closer to hell.
      If they were telling everyone that they weren’t worthy to the same degree I’d be inclined to accept the status quo but I can’t see much campaigning against the rights of any straight ‘sinners’ going on.

  12. I agree with his question of why gay people would want to get married in a place of worship that does not want them.
    There are denominations that are open and affirming. Seek those faiths out and marry in their places of worship. The Catholics and others have the right not to allow same sex weddings. There is a separation of church and state. One does not have to be religous or spiritual in order to be married.
    All consenting adults should have the right to marry and have the same legal benefits.

  13. Robert in S. Kensington 23 Apr 2013, 2:08pm

    As an atheist and former catholic, I agree with one thing he says, i.e. why would gay couples want to get married in a church that thinks you are sinner? He isn’t aware of course that the Unitarians, Liberal Judaism and the Quakers don’t consider us sinners.

    His views on marriage and CPs are his, I find nothing wrong with that.

    Even Jeremy Irons claims he doesn’t really think much of marriage although he said he married to protect his children which to me really doesn’t say much about his wife.

    I don’t think Marc Almond is trying to tell anyone what to do, just expressing an opinion. I respect it even though I don’t concur.

  14. A wedding should be a joyous affair. It’s bad enough welcoming a bitchy ex or drunk uncle. Nobody wants a celebrant muttering “Sodomites!”

    And it is unhealthy for LGBT people – or anyone – to remain in a church which utterly rejects who you are.

    The problem with Marc Almond’s comments is they disregard gay-affirming churches. There’s a tendency on both sides of the argument to treat such churches as if they don’t count, or are something new.

    Marc Almond said “You can’t say, ‘Well, I want to invent a new kind of Christianity where you invite all sorts of other people in’.”

    But you can invent whatever religion you please – that’s religious freedom. And if you prefer an established denomination, Unitarians have been around since 1774 and the Quakers since the 1650s; both have been gay-affirming for many years.

    I am an atheist, but I utterly support the right of believers whose churches value their relationships to get religious marriages, gay and straight.

  15. For once I agree with one of those brainless ‘celebrities’. He may not be the brightest bulb on the planet, but he got it right this time. In fact, I wouldn’t get ‘married’ even if I were straight (not that anyone would want to marry me). In fact I disawow all rituals of any kind. But then who cares what I think.

    1. We care what you think. Push your way to the front and shout.

  16. People who don’t know what they’re talking about should keep their mouths shut. There are several Christian, Jewish, Unitarian, Buddhist, etc, that will bless and accept same-sex unions. Current laws prevent those marriages from being recognized officially. All legalizing gay marriage does is to permit accepting churches to do what they already want to do. Hello? Never heard of the Unitarians? Reform Judaism? The United Church of Christ?

    It frustrates the Hell out of me when gays display the same exact ignorance as their enemies.

    1. Didn’t see any ignorance here at all. You also need to realise that no celebrity goes out in the morning with a list of things they want to say today.

      They get stopped by journalists and get asked questions. They reply with their thoughts and opinions.

      Those same journalists then turn those thoughts and opinions into sermons.

      1. It being an off-the-cuff statement doesn’t make it a non-ignorant statement. Lots of churches affirm gay marriages and do not consider the relationships they represent sinful. He made a statement that can only seem reasonable if someone is ignorant of this fact.

  17. Officer Dribber 23 Apr 2013, 3:31pm

    I completely understand what Mr Almond means – up to a point. Why would anyone want to get married in a place where they are openly reviled?

    As a black man, I would not want to celebrate my birthday at a BNP festival, and as a gay man, I don’t want a church wedding…however, I DO want the right to have a completely non-religious civil wedding.

    Mr Almond is conflating ‘marriage’ with ‘religious marriage’. They are not synonyms.

    Now…I’m off to buy some almonds…

    1. “Mr Almond is conflating ‘marriage’ with ‘religious marriage’. They are not synonyms.”

      Erm no he isn’t.

      ‘“I think a civil partnership or a register office marriage is a modern, sensible thing to do,” Almond said.’

      “Now…I’m off to buy some almonds…”

      Maybe pop into Specsavers too

    2. Since many churches are gay affirming, having a church wedding would be more comparable to celebrating your birthday at any political party’s festival.

      You are conflating “religious” with “anglican/catholic.”

  18. Am I the only one who would have paid more attention if this had come from Neil Tennant or Chris Lowe?

    1. Yes.

      You did ask.

  19. So refreshing to see the levels of tolerance and respect espoused on this board towards the opinions of a gay man who has no interest in joining the gay marriage conga.

    Makes a change from the usual predictable knee-jerking we often see toward those who point out the obvious contradiction in the gay lobby pushing for the same rights as the oh so hip and trendy mainstreamers!

    This is what real debate is all about:- respecting and giving room to others to air their viewpoints no matter how much they may be out of synch with the PC groupthink consensus (aka the homogenisation of thought.)

    Perhaps individualism in the gay community is not in its death throes after all:- either that or the gay lobby are at their annual convention!

    1. commentator 27 Apr 2013, 12:03am

      Well said. Lets see less of the sheeple attitude.

  20. Paul Brownsey 23 Apr 2013, 5:57pm

    “The Christian Church believes ALL people are born into sin, not just gays.”

    That’s glib, Scott. It’s the sort of thing religious homophobes say. The point is that official religion maintains, yes, that all are sinners, but also that we gays are susceptible to a whole lot of extra sins that straights aren’t.

  21. Suddenly Last Bummer 23 Apr 2013, 7:34pm

    Well said Marc. Ditto any LGBTs who holiday in places like Jamaica.

    1. That’s nothing I knew one of those practising creepy, messed up CofE gay guys who holidayed in Dubai.

  22. I would certainly not patronize any church that told me I was inferior. However, I do not have the disease of faith. Many people suffer from this condition and can do nothing about it. It affects gays and straights alike. Mr Almond asserts that a CP is a sensible thing to do. I suggest to him that as he has such dodgy health, he should get on with it, unless his partner can easily afford to lose all the money and assets the government will take upon his death.

  23. What’s the problem? , he only gave his opinion on gays/lesbians getting married in church which I agree with, but I am a firm believer in equal civil marriage(which is really the important aspect of marriage) or marriage in a religion that is not toxic with bigotry and hate , he never said he would deny anyone that right. Although in the current climate , his words may be manipulated out of context.

  24. Neil M U Phelps 25 Apr 2013, 10:54pm

    I totally agree with Mr. Almond!!

  25. Neil M U Phelps 25 Apr 2013, 11:17pm

    Mr Almond has the perfect answer for everyone. Thank you!!!

  26. GingerlyColors 26 Apr 2013, 11:16am

    Why would you want to join a club that does not want you to have you as a member?
    Love to hear more from Marc Almond on Pink News. He was one of the very first men to ‘come out’ as gay in this country and has been a massive influence on our lives.

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