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France: Archbishop of Paris warns that equal marriage will lead to a more violent society

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  1. Sarah Brown 16 Apr 2013, 6:01pm

    He appears to be making vague insinuations that their anti LGBT stance might get physical if they don’t get their way. This appears to be some sort of threat.

    1. Rimskhy Espinoza 16 Apr 2013, 6:09pm

      Agree!, but is not some sort of threat, Is a THREAT! Shame on this bishop!

    2. Is there any way the Roman Catholic Church speaks that is not through threats and blackmails ?

    3. de Villiers 17 Apr 2013, 8:11am

      It is just the desperate comments of the prêtes who know that they have lost this argument. France has had the PACS for years and there has been no adverse effect.

  2. At least its a step down from the apocalypse.

    What’s stupid is that the only people who will be more violent are the catholics and other fascist right wing nutters because they’re not getting their way – maybe they’ll start burning us at stakes? All in the name of christ, obviously.

    1. JPK in the US 16 Apr 2013, 6:40pm

      You mean RESUME burning gays at the stake. In the Inquisition, out of 1,000 convictions for sodomy, 170 were burned at the stake. Notre Dame cathedral, where this Archbishop hangs his mitre, was only about 170 years old when that proud contribution of the Catholic Church was made to history

  3. Kelvin Beer-Jones 16 Apr 2013, 6:16pm

    Now comments inciting violence surely ought to be a crime, even in France.

    1. I don’t know why you say “even in France”, because I’m pretty sure they’ve had laws against hate speech for as long, if not longer, than the UK.

      In any case, it is a crime to incite violence in France, against a person or group of people, on the grounds of sexual orientation.

  4. Liam the God 16 Apr 2013, 6:17pm

    Catholic Bigot Incites Violence Against LGBTQI Community! Another one! These Catholics are getting really pissed off now they know they’re WRONG!!!

  5. Far from splitting society, granting equality removes divisions. The incitement to violence arises when religious bigots convince their followers that they are right to deny “lesser” people equality. Once you decide some people aren’t entitled to the benefits and protection of the law, violence quickly follows.

  6. Is this old fart suggesting that future violence by anti-gay marriage individuals or groups against France’s LGBT community will and should take place as a reaction to the passing of the bill?

    If it is a veiled approval on his part to such criminal action, then he ought to be charged with inciting violence with intention to hurt and intimidate.

  7. JPK in the US 16 Apr 2013, 6:33pm

    I say we risk legalizing gay marriage If the death toll reaches 50% of what the Crusades wrought (500,000 of 1,000,000), or what the French War of Religions (1-2 Million out of 2-4 million) reached, we can look at it again.

  8. Yes, violence incited by frocked idiots such as himself. Wishfully, these religious morons should be removed from society. However, I always say that they’re digging their own grave as a church

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  9. All this christian love is overwhelming!!

  10. This is pure Catholic exploitation aimed at stirring up violence from the disgruntled muslim youth in Paris who suffer great economic disadvantage and can be incited to homophobic violence to do the Vatican’s dirty work for them. Dispicable manipulative papists

  11. “Citing recent protests against equal marriage which took place during the Senate’s debates around the issue, Vingt-Trois said the government was not listening to French citizens, which could lead to more violent backlashes.

    And the Catholic Church is not innocent in all this? Ridiculous. It has drummed it up.

    1. Well next time a catholic priest is beaten up or murdered we can all blame religion for inciting violence.

      1. Robert in S. Kensington 16 Apr 2013, 11:53pm

        I wish, but I’d rather have more of them exposed, the O’Brien syndrome type of which I am sure there are many.

  12. He might have a point. After all straight marriage led to two world wars.

    1. They would probably claim it was the Devil. Or if they are of a more conservative wing like the Opus Dei, the Jews.

  13. Helge Vladimir Tiller 16 Apr 2013, 7:30pm

    When these persons talk about gay and lesbians–they are so mean : Which directly can’t be interpreted in any other way that they don’t want us to love and be loved. AND THIS, dear FRIENDS, is THE WORST SIN in Christianity !!! ( ALL good christians say so !) Love to France from Norway-

  14. Chris Vogel 16 Apr 2013, 7:31pm

    Religious conservatives have no respect for democracy, never have. They are happy enough when government inflicts their beliefs–however, idiotic–on everyone else, and allows them to exercise their usual malice, wilful ignorance, and cheap self-indulgence, but get really hostile–even homicidal–when anyone’s ideas but their own prevail.

    1. Religion has always been incompatible with democracy, liberty and the inalienable rights of the human being and compatible only with monarchy, absolutism, authoritarism and tyranny, as it does not seek harmony, tolerance and common good for all people regardless of their culture and belief systems but actually total blind and unquestionable submission and obedience to their evil misanthropic dogmas and an authoritarian feelings of exclusivity that says only themselves are the monopoly of morality and compassion in the whole world.

      “But whoever dares to say: Outside the Church is no salvation, ought to be driven from the State, unless the State is the Church, and the prince the pontiff. Such a dogma is good only in a theocratic government; in any other, it is FATAL.” – Jean-Jacques Rousseau, The Social Contract

      1. Liam the God 16 Apr 2013, 9:51pm

        Sadly “The Social Contract” led to Maxime Robspierre: 5,000+ dead in one year! Even Secularist dictators are dictators.

        1. Sorry but that is already known today as a fallacy, like how it’s said that Friedrich Nietzsche and Charles Darwin contributed to the Nazism. Some 20th century minor and pseudo-philosophers even claim that Rousseau, along with Plato contributed to modern authoritarian regimes. Robespierre’s own greed and narcisism is what led to the Reign of Terror. Anyway who reads Plato’s Republic and Rousseau’s The Social Contract will just a bit of attention (what Robespierre never did) will find nothing but opposition and condemnation of dictatorship, tyranny and human cruelty.

          1. Liam the God 17 Apr 2013, 2:15pm

            Psychopaths will use anything as an excuse is what I was aiming at. I don’t think anyone has gone on a rampage due to a Mr Men book yet, but someone probably will one day….

  15. If people don’t respect gay or human rights, then we are obliged to defend them, even when it develops violence in society. We can’t accept the right-wings moral and phisical terrorism. The Catholic Church must work hard in order to change its belivers aggressive stance towards homosexuality.

    1. Why would the RCC do that? They would like nothing more than violence towards LGBT while publicly denouncing it (when they were embarrassed into doing so).

    2. In general, it is NOT “its believers” who are homophobic. In the US, support for gay equality is higher among Catholics than any other Christian group. I believe I have seen polls showing the same thing here in the UK.

  16. Chester666666 16 Apr 2013, 7:51pm

    He claims that society cannot integrate so he wants to not give it a chance, then he claims there’ll be more violence which will be due to homophobes like him
    Usual homophobic nonsense

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 16 Apr 2013, 11:57pm

      France isn’t doing a great job at integrating it’s Muslim population, so this hate-monger’s statement is disingenuous.

  17. What a deeply sinister organisation this is.

    1. …and has been for centuries

    2. Even before they started burning women at the stake for being witches. Before that they already killed a Greek mathematician woman alive by skinning for not agreeing with their delusions.

  18. Well by this logic, the extant violence against LGBT people must be our fault for existing. After all, while there are grave economic and social decisions to take, it’d be far more reasonable and simple if we just didn’t exist.

  19. Translation:’Oooh nice society! It’d be a pity of anything (else) happened to it!’

  20. Curiously, if the evidence of the past few days is anything to go by it seems that it’s actually the opponents of equal marriage who are creating this more violent society.

  21. Clutching at straws… Oh, so there’s no car parking spaces in town… lets blame the gays for that. Delays on the tram/subway/metro/street car, blame the gays. price of vegetable oil gone up, blame the gays.

    Where and when will you cretins stop?

    1. They will only stop with their own death.

  22. So this time it’s dogwhistle threats that we’ll be to blame for any violence coming our way with a bit of Nirvana fallacy thrown in.
    It’s like discussing equality with an Eastend gangboss:

    “It’s such a nice equal marriage you’ve got there. It would be a real shame if anything were to happen to it, wouldn’t it boys?
    I’m not sayin’ it would but you can’t be too careful these days, someone might get agitated if they thought that you might have a marriage that they weren’t part of, know what I mean? “

    1. Roman Catholic Church, the Mafia in dresses.

  23. “Society has lost its capacity of integration and especially its ability to blend differences in a common project.” Mr Vingt-Trois, I’m sorry, we gave you the wrong speech, you’re reading from the pro-marriage equality speech.

  24. I’m beginning to think that someone in the RC church has taken out a large bet riding on who can come up with the most idiotic argument against same sex marriage.

    Think about it. If what the Bishop says had any logic then the sensible course for pro equality campaigners would be themselves to threaten violence in the event of gay marriage being prevented.

    A society without gay marriage would then be a violent one QED.

    The plain fact is that both President Hollande and his party made it clear that they would legalise same sex marriage if elected, and are duly doing so.

    End of.

  25. Robert in S. Kensington 16 Apr 2013, 8:48pm

    This moron though not outrightly calling for violence, is stoking the fires among Manif Pour Tous which it supports to do its dirty work against equal marriage. Notice he’s not once condemned the brutal attack on that gay couple last weekend. Hasn’t really condemned violence at all. I’d like to see a counter Manif against the Catholic cult even if it ends in violence. It’s inflicted violence on humanity since it’s inception and gay people have always been its scapegoat. These paedo protectors should be arrested for crimes against humanity, hung drawn and quartered, post haste.

    Thankfully, the UK is a far more civilised society. All that hoopla about French sophistication is a load of bollocks. The bastards stabbed us in the back when de Gaulle was in power, blocking the UK’s entry into what was then the Common Market. Throughout WW2, he sat it out in London as a guest of his majesty and the taxpayers, then returns after the allied liberation as if he’d won the war.

    1. Liam the God 16 Apr 2013, 9:54pm

      Agree 100% on De Gaulle!

  26. WOW!!! What can I say? Now the Catholic priests are revealing their true colors. They love inciting hatred to those who don’t agree with them. Why are they threatening? If I were Hollande, I will let the law settle it if they start voilent actions. It is sick to hear that from someone who has a duty to share the love and compassion of our Creator. But they will lose this fight, France will be the 14th nation to do it. Hopefully, the Philippines will follow sooner.

  27. I think this statement is in perfect synchronisation with F. Barjot saying “If Hollande wants blood, he will get it!”

  28. And on other news the Westboro Baptist Church, another cult as full of hate as the Roman Catholic Church blames the Boston bombings on God’s wrath because of the acceptance of same-sex marriage in the United States. The only ones making violence are the religious and the bigoted ones. Society already got in a point where religion not only is obsolete and no longer necessary but actually harmful and destructive for mankind.

    1. It was always harmful and destructive, Felipe.

  29. dorset bob 16 Apr 2013, 9:42pm

    This is nothing new for the catholic church both historicaly and currently. They are busy in africa stirring up homophobic hatred and are instrumental in introducing laws outlawing homosexuality wherever they can .Utter bastards really .

  30. This vicious old pig is inciting violence and he knows it.

  31. So far, the violence has been coming from the archbishop bigoted friends, aka homophobes. Just like the BS of the rest of his ilk, these remarks don’t have any evidence in the countries where equal marriage has been a reality for a while.

    Where are the journalists who put the pressure on this man to explain himself? It’s part an parcel of his job to be deluded, but we can’t continue feeling sorry for this virgin.

  32. That There Other David 16 Apr 2013, 11:10pm

    All has a familiar smell this. What are they going to do, turn up on our lawns in white sheets and lynch us whilst the crosses burn?

  33. Evil old queen. He’s probably had it off with O’Brien.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 16 Apr 2013, 11:58pm

      No, but more of the O’Brien ilk, deeply closeted and self-loathing. Most of them are.

  34. Jesus’ love is very wonderful
    Jesus’ love is very wonderful,
    Jesus’ love is very wonderful,
    Oh, wonderful love!

    It’s so high you can’t get over it,
    So low you can’t get under it,
    So wide you can’t get round it,
    Oh, wonderful love!


    So deep you can’t go through it,
    So long you can’t see the end of it,
    So strong you can’t resist it,
    Oh, wonderful love!


    So bright you have to see it,
    So loud you have to hear it,
    So sweet you have to taste it,
    Oh, wonderful love!

    1. Yep, it really is that thin!

      Pure batshit

    2. Where is the love of Jesus in those that desire to wage violence and war against us?

    3. Seriously, your talking about love, when one of your leaders talks about hate. You people are seriously screwed up.

      1. I think this was an ironic comment

    4. Liam the God 17 Apr 2013, 11:28pm

      Note for future reference: Label all posts with “May Contain Irony” if you’re joking or just taking the piss out of something…..

  35. Sounds like the old regime is still running the Vatican :(

    1. Or the Pope Emeritus and his gang are still upto their old tricks.

    2. Why exactly would anyone expect the new regime to be different from the old?

      Same shit, different arsehole

  36. People who have spent there entire life wasting it on ill informed biblical crap.

    We cannot run the 21st century whilst
    idiots like him talk bull.

    1. You Christophobic bigot, your hate filled comments have no place on here, go back up to the North Pole where you come from you bigot.

  37. Jen Marcus 17 Apr 2013, 2:58am

    Every time these people express their views their rhetoric becomes more and more irrational and illogical to the point of being paranoid. I am afraid they are setting themselves for an involuntary commitment to a mental institution.

  38. PeterinSydney 17 Apr 2013, 10:32am

    Sounds like this nasty old homophobe is hoping for a bit of gay bashing especially against gay couples. He should be preaching peace and co-existence instead if he were true to his high office.

  39. Julian Morrison 17 Apr 2013, 10:33am

    He’s taking the silence of the status quo as “not violence”, but no, the status quo is violence, it’s lovers forced apart at immigration and in hospitals, it’s people turned away at the registry office and called lesser, it’s the force of law keeping discrimination as the rule. So what his comments REALLY amount to is “if only you kept the status quo, the violence would be so much easier to ignore”.

    1. Hi, Julian! I noticed your comment on the Guardian thread following the article about sexism against women yesterday completely disappeared! The contents weren’t removed: your entire comment was removed, although all you said was that you had noticed that many other people’s comments had been removed! Several of mine got removed too! I kept posting though and in the end I was sending messages “directly” to the censor telling her (I presume it was some raving female bigot-feminist) how pathetic she was! Now, of course, my comments to the Guardian are being “pre-moderated” – read “being censored”.

      Am going to send an email shortly to Alan Rusbridger about this situation. It’s just not on. Whoever was moderating that thread yesterday was trying to turn into some kind of “safe zone for women who hate men”. Similar happened about six weeks ago when Victoria Coren said spiteful things about lesbian actress Miriam Margolyes having decided to relocate to Australia.

      1. Julian Morrison 17 Apr 2013, 1:26pm

        Yeah, I saw that too. They didn’t mark it as bad, they just deleted it. Perhaps it was becoming troll bait. But I think you misread the content of my comment – it was saying “the fact that there are so many deleted comments indicates how much patriarchy there still is”.

        And, I completely disagree with anyone who can even think the concept “raving female bigot-feminist”. The raving people in that discussion were MRAs. The women were just happy to find a space where their comments would neither be shouted down, nor personally attacked.

        I completely approve of that thread’s moderation. We need more safe spaces for women who have valid reasons to be angry at men to express that in the open. And I shall match your letter to the editor with one of mine, congratulating them.

        1. Well, Julian, what a surprise!

          I saw that what happened on that Guardian thread yesterday is that a number of men pointed out that sexism works the other way too, that women can close in on an attractive man, for example, and give him no rest or room.

          But the writer of the Guardian article and the moderator (and, who knows, they may well have been one and the same) would simply NOT hear that fact. They removed all such comments, leaving them empty.

          As the day progressed they then began removing comments ENTIRELY, including YOURS.

          About that you ought to have been furious, for your comment did not deserve to be removed.

          I hope you’re not one of those who delights simply in being contrary? ;-)

          1. Julian Morrison 17 Apr 2013, 4:54pm

            Sexism doesn’t “work the other way too”. What there is, is patriarchy (that oppresses women) and blowback from patriarchy (parts of the oppression of women, that actually end up hurting men). For example, the characterization of men as predators is connected to the sexist characterization of women as more nurturing, as part of painting them as “natural stay at home mothers”.

            However, the reason those comments were removed is that they were not just off topic, they were aggressively off topic in a way that always happens when women complain about being harassed. The men who support such harassment turn up and shout irrelevant things like “you are sexist too” until the conversation is completely hostile to women. The moderator was correct in refusing to allow that.

            I was mildly unhappy my comment got deleted. But I immediately saw why it might have – it was pointing out the sexism of the comment thread, and that was likely to attract a whole lot of off topic replies.

          2. Julian you say “the reason those comments were removed is that they were not just off topic, they were aggressively off topic”.

            I cannot speak for all the comments that were removed, but I know with CERTAINTY that some comments were removed that were NOT “off-topic” and were not couched aggressively. They were removed simply because they did not “go with the flow”. Their removal demonstrated that the author or moderator was brooking NO DISSENT from the bias of the article.

            That is unacceptable and, sadly, I have observed it happening before on Guardian threads.

          3. O Eddy do pls stop whining like a little girl Eddy, you really are a big baby sometimes.

  40. This evil man and the not funny comedian in france that no one knows, surely are inciting terrorism.

  41. Jock S. Trap 17 Apr 2013, 12:01pm

    Only from within religion not decent society.

    I guess this is why I’m thankful that we have democratically elected governments running these countries and not religions.

  42. Somebody should make him watch New Zealand MP Maurice Williamson’s MarriageEquality speech, lampooning all the worst-possible scenarios that the bigots have conjured up:

    1. Thank you for that Eddy, absolutely fantastic.

  43. Philip Breen 17 Apr 2013, 1:29pm

    What does he mean? I really don’t get what the link could be between the civil legalisation of same-sex marriage and the violence that the Cardinal Archbishop of Paris asserts will emerge because of its happening. Is it that legally accepted gay love will lead to violence? I am sorry but this strikes me as bizarre & disconnected scaremongering. (Have I not understood something?) I know the Catholic Church doesn’t want gay marriage but, this….? What is he on about?

  44. This is a thinly veiled threat from religious people. Lead to more violence? Yes, they know that they will be will be waging war against us.

  45. The trolls NOM (National Organization of Marriage) are failing here across the pond. They are pissed and are now a major part of this incitement of violence in France.

  46. This is the kind of talk that creates a climate of violence and not the issue of marriage. Perhaps if these people abided by the teachings of the founder of their religion and preached those teachings there would be less violence.

  47. I dated an ex Jesuit priest, a number of decades ago, and one valuable lesson he taught me was that the Catholic church has had centuries in which to develop semantics to a fine art.

    In a courtroom, a defense lawyer would argue the Archbishop’s statement as being nothing more than a warning of cause and effect. However, when you look at the statement from the semantisist’s viewpoint, it also bears his explicit imprimatur to wage a war against us that the homophobic groups will take as a permission.

    When you look at it in that light, the Archbishop has pulled off a perfect Pontius Pilot manouver; he gives permission to the haters to do their evil deeds, and yet, to the masses he appears concerned, and innocent of any accusation of inciting violence.

  48. It’s concerning, that after violent attacks supported by scum , that there is only a modicum of outrage from the French. paris is the most boring, conservative place in Europe that I’ve been, but even there , there must be be people disgusted at the fascist anti equal marriage mob.

  49. Violence is the fault of the attacker not the victim.

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