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Argentina: Catholic priest expelled from church for supporting equal marriage

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  1. Here in Canada, we have a similar case in Quebec where Fr Raymond Gravel, an out and proud homosexual, not only promotes same-sex marriage, but is also publicly pro-choice and he supports euthanasia as well.

    He has yet to be excommunicated though, and he is very close to the poor, the outcasts and the elderly.

    (Check him out in Wiki)

    Good on Fr Alessio !

    1. The Argentinian ex-priest was not excommunicated. Though, it could be argued that people who claim to be one thing (Catholic) but believe something opposed to the group they think they belong to have effectively excommunicated themselves. Most people would assume that a Marxist member of the Tory party shouldn’t complain if those responsible for membership asked him to leave. It’s just common sense and a natural dislike for hypocrisy.

      1. So where do you stand, John? Do you not admire Nicholas Alessio for pursuing what is right with regard to a particular issue while probably adhering to everything else that the Church demands of its followers?

        Are you saying that the members of any group should never ever dissent or seek to improve the nature of their group?

      2. Ideally, I suppose you’re right, John. Unity of Doctrine has been a driving force in the Catholic church since the 4th century (Constantine, persecutions, etc.).

        In practice, and in recent years, countless thousands of catholics refuse the teaching on birth control, for example, and continue to receive communion.

        In fact, I doubt very much that any particular catholic adheres to every iota of church teachings.

        As for Fr Alessio, don’t you think we should recognize an ally wherever we find him?

        It’s too bad that a man who can think so clearly on this issue cannot snap out of the mythical beliefs in a deity and think for himself on other issues a s well.

        1. “It’s too bad that a man who can think so clearly on this issue cannot snap out of the mythical beliefs in a deity and think for himself on other issues as well.”

          Yes, indeed, J-P. If only they would all just SNAP out of such silliness.

  2. PeterinSydney 13 Apr 2013, 4:15am

    The anti-gay crusade by the Catholic Hierarchy continues. Pox on all of them.

  3. GingerlyColors 13 Apr 2013, 6:34am

    They should have made him Pope instead!

  4. This is the Catholic church at the moment.

    Think being gay deserves the death penalty (like Rebecca Kadaga)? Get a blessing from the pope.

    Support civil marriage between two consenting adults? You’re sacked.

    I hope Catholics and cultural Catholics consider this carefully before attending mass next.

    This is not simply an organisation which rejects us. This is an organisation which is actively working to deny us civil rights. Yes, the Catholic church does some good community work, but anti-gay activities are a substantial part of its operations, especially in the US. Give your money to a charity which focuses on helping people rather than hurting them.

    My culturally Catholic wife continues to attend Catholic weddings and funerals to support friends and family, but no longer takes communion, and doesn’t give to the collection.

    1. What are you talking about?

      That Ugandan politician DID NOT receive some special blessing from the Pope. She definitely did not receive one as a sign of support for her policies.

      At the papal inauguration a few weeks ago, there were several political leaders from all over the world, including madmen like Mugabe and abortion and gay marriage supporters, such as Joe Biden. At the end of Mass, they all received a blessing from the pope — anyone who happens to be present at the end of Mass receives a blessing (from priest, bishop, pope). This does not mean that the Pope is blessing their policies or supports both extremes of the political spectrum.

      Not changing one’s views on marriage to fit into the zeitgeist does not make one anti-gay. That would make nearly every human being who has ever lived, and who is currently living, ‘anti-gay’ — including those who are / were happily gay.

      As you know, one man’s rights are another’s restraints.

      1. Robert in S. Kensington 13 Apr 2013, 11:57am

        Oh please, stop being an apologist for the corruption in your cult. The catholic cult IS anti-gay. What do you think weeding out suspectedly gay seminarians, an order issued by Ratzinger is all about? There were many heterosexual abusive priests involved in the paedophilia scandal but no such order was issued to remove them, just the gay ones. Loving the sinner hating the sin doesn’t cut it any more. Denying a basic civil right to one group of people based on religious beliefs, especially for those who don’t believe or who aren’t even catholic is homophobia in this case. Argentina isn’t a theocracy and nor is the UK.

  5. How many child-abusing priests – or those who have covered up for them – still remain within the church? (= most of them).

    This shows that the Catholic hierarchy appear to view defiance of their authority as much worse than harming children.

    1. In case it’s not clear: ‘=most of them’ refers to the proportion of OFFENDING priests remaining in the church. And NOT that most priests are such offenders – which they clearly aren’t.

    2. “How many child-abusing priests – or those who have covered up for them – still remain within the church? (= most of them).”

      It would be expected that a person would be able to answer his own question correctly. It seems, though, that the above comment proves the exception to the rule.

      a) The priest in the story IS STILL IN THE CHURCH. He is just no longer an active priest.

      b) Please prove that most convicted child abusing priests are still working as priests… I think you’ll find that the vast majority are ex-priests, and that most cases date to a period that means that most are actually now dead. Those who aren’t are either in prison or are no longer connected to the Catholic Church… I know of one child abusing ex-priest who left the Church altogether because he claimed the Church didn’t support him enough when he was in prison!

      1. Even you must admit that there was an attemt to cover up the endemic child abuse in the church by the hierachy. its well documented and public knowledge

      2. By dismissively saying “He is just no longer an active priest” you have fatuously reduced what for this man amounts to a personal tragedy: his being stripped of the role and function to which he has devoted 30 years of his adult life.

        The Catholic Cult, like all the cults, is ruthless. It demands idiotic, air-headed obedience of its members.

        Join a cult and hand over your brain.

  6. Good luck, Jose Nicholas. You have taken a brave and principled stand. You are better than the Catholic Church, and better off without them.

    From here on in your life begins!

    1. He is still a member of the Catholic Church until he renounces his faith, which, it seems, he has no intention of doing.

      I know lots of people who comment on the Church actually haven’t got any actual experience of said organisation, but there was a time not that long ago when most non-Catholics did at least know the difference between priesthood and Church membership.

      1. Silly boy, John. He is no longer part of the preisthood – qed no longer part of that organisation.

        And btw just as the catholic church can claim members who are not believers, so also one can have faith without being signed up to Rome.

      2. Likewise many people comment on marriage equality haven’t got any experience of same-sex love.

        Also, many catholics haven’t a clue as to how the religious institution works.

  7. That There Other David 13 Apr 2013, 9:16am

    The Catholic Church needs a lot less priests in Europe and Latin America these days anyway, what with Catholics deserting the cult in their millions.

    The Cardinals must be so relieved that so many Africans are still fooled by all the lies.

    1. “…what with Catholics deserting the cult in their millions.”

      It might not be your cup of tea, but maybe you should visit your local Catholic church before assuming that all you’ll find are a couple of old ladies? You might be surprised to find that the mainstream media / secularists are able to fool people, too.

      1. You’re right, Mr. Jones. Beside the old ladies, in my local church there is only to be seen a bunch of brainwashed young Poles, and a handful of uneducated simple young Filipinos working locally as servants.

        In other words, absolutely no one of an impressively intellectual nature. Just unthinking and brainwashed simpletons, the lot of them.

        1. but does it takes impressive intellectual nature you talk about to form bigoted opinions?

      2. That There Other David 13 Apr 2013, 9:49pm

        That’s a very well constructed straw man if ever I saw one.

        Kindly point out where in my post I state the age or sex of the millions of Europeans and Latin Americans who are leaving the Catholic Cult.

        Besides, my local Catholic Church is Our Lady of the Assumption on Warwick Street. Our type aren’t welcome there thanks to Vincent Nichols’ decree, didn’t you hear?

        1. Mr. Jones, people can be good and honest without being catholic, you know? You should be trying to find some more productive ways to spend your time,better than being here defending that dead cult you call church, nobody wants or need that here, but of course you are free to express yourself, or waste your time however you want to..

  8. This case simply reiterates the legal fiction that priests are employed by God and the church cannot be held as vicariously liable for priests (sex crimes) or nuns (aiding genocide in Rwanda) who have committed serious crimes. The nuns in question were given sanctuary in Vatican City after their crimes were exposed.

    1. Not exactly… Though each legal (as in state and diocesan) jurisdiction is different — i.e. some dioceses do ‘employ’ priests (pay them a salary etc) whilst other do not. Some states recognise this, others do not.

      Even if a priest is not employed by the Church, his priesthood (as an ontological state, in the theological sense) depends on the consent of the Church. So a priest can be returned to the lay state by his bishop, just as a bishop can ordain a man into the priesthood… But that does not mean that the man being ordained is being employed / given a job or that the one being laicised is being ‘sacked’ from a job. As this particular priest has said elsewhere, he does remain ordained and he still feels a vocation to the priesthood, so he will carry on being a priest (only the Church won’t recognise him as a legitimate one). There are plenty of priests and deacons who fulfil a liturgical function in the Church, but who are actually employed by secular companies, etc.

      1. “Even if a priest is not employed by the Church, his priesthood (as an ontological state, in the theological sense)” ! ! ! ! ! ! !

        Oh, be off with you now, with your silly mumbo-jumbo, your gobbledegook, your fairy-tales, and your pathetic “ontology”!

      2. Good grief, John, how will you ever find your way out of the catholic pathos if you lose your mind in metaphysics?

  9. Deus caritas est 13 Apr 2013, 9:44am

    This man has been a dissenter for years and caused chaos and controversy over the same time period.

    It is interesting that Pink News focuses on this issue rather than what he is really being de-robed for, but then I’d expect nothing else from bad journalism.

    This isn’t news. The Church believes in the sanctity of life! That’s clear and simple. It cannot ever support the killing of the innocent or any one for that matter.

    This is more than simply a man speaking out of turn.

    1. on the other hand 13 Apr 2013, 10:28am

      What are you talking about? All the reports on the internet, going back years, are about him and a group of priests supporting gay marriage. E.g., http://aftermarriageblog.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/gay-marriage-on-the-path-of-the-gospel-of-jesus/

      If you allege he was fired for something else, then spell it out and provide evidence.

      1. As the Argentinian Independent highlights, there was more to this case than simple support for gay marriage… He had, for example, been marrying divorcees, contrary to Church law.

        http://www.argentinaindependent.com/tag/jose-nicolas-alessio/

        You might think that it’s ok for divorcees to remarry. The Catholic Church does not. When one becomes a Catholic priest they promise to obey their bishop and uphold all that the Church teaches. If he doesn’t want to / can’t do that anymore, then why would the man in question want to be a priest?

        1. on the other hand 13 Apr 2013, 12:07pm

          Well, Cardinal O’Connor is still a priest/cardinal is he not? or is the difference that he obeyed instructions to be be publicly homophobic, whilst only secretly behaving inappropriately with young priests?

        2. Deus caritas est 13 Apr 2013, 12:50pm

          At last someone of sense! John Jones what is apparent to me here is that the teachings of Holy Mother Church are completely misunderstood by people on here.

          Such a shame really

          1. Oh, they’re understood alright. Fear not! They’re understood for exactly what they are. It’s you shmucks who have fallen for them hook, line and sinker!

          2. Dave North 13 Apr 2013, 2:20pm

            You and your like are apologists of the rape of children.

            Truly disgusting.

          3. You guys are juggling catholic canon law while ignoring that there is absolutely no justification for the core beliefs of your religion.

    2. Jock S. Trap 13 Apr 2013, 10:44am

      What’s interesting is the Catholic Church focus’s so much on this more open minded gentleman yet the huge numbers of people abused, wanting justice and answers go unheard while the church protects their abusers.

    3. Robert in S. Kensington 13 Apr 2013, 12:04pm

      Utter tosh. If a woman giving birth has complications which could cause her death, the roman cult would prefer that the child were saved. Ratzinger opposed the distribution of condoms in African countries saying that they helped spread HIV/AIDS and you have the gall to say your cult believes in the sanctity of life! The catholic conquistadores with support of your cult didn’t much care for human life in Latin America in the 16th century and during the Inquisition under the catholic Torquemadas. Indigenous tribes wiped out, Aztecs, Incas, Mayas and Jews in Spain tortured and executed if they didn’t convert.

    4. Hey Deusy, how about you lie on the couch and tell us all just who it was who drummed into your little brain that all-governing immovable dictum of “The Church believes in the sanctity of life!”.

      The “sanctity of life”! LOL.

      Let’s deconstruct that, shall we.

      “Sanctity” means “holiness”

      and

      “holiness” means “spiritual perfection”.

      But life is absolutely not, visibly NOT, a spiritual thing!

      LIFE is an entirely PHYSICAL thing.

      Hence the term “the sanctity of life” is ABSURD.

      Be off with your absurdities.

      Or lie back on the couch and try to recall which ridiculous nun it was who drummed that notion into your brain.

  10. Jock S. Trap 13 Apr 2013, 10:41am

    Says a lot doesn’t it.

    They expel someone when their own express an opinion but do nothing but protect when their own abuse children.

    Religion eh? Who need it…. bunch of hypocrites.

    1. a) It seems that the priest in question refused to defend himself during the judicial process. Unfortunately, many child abuser priests used to choose to defend themselves during the ‘defrocking’ (laicisation) process.

      b) “do nothing” — actually the vast majority of priests convicted of child abuse have been defrocked and the process has been streamlined to make it faster. Often in the past it was pointless to defrock a priest convicted of criminal offences as he would have been automatically ‘suspended’ anyway or would have been retired. Nowadays even the suspended and retired ones tend to get laicised. Any priest accused of a major crime is now immediately suspended and, if found guilty, usually immediately laicised (unless he himself appeals or decides to defend himself). Justice demands that people can defend themselves and appeal.

      1. Is anyone else seeing a similarity between canon law and sharia law?

        Fr Alessio is being treated like a criminal, but where are the victims?

  11. I would just like to point out that the ex-priest in question was not a priest of the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires. He was a priest of the Archdiocese of Córdoba. Therefore, the former Cardinal Bergoglio (then Archbishop of Buenos Aires and now Pope Francis) had nothing to do with the case of ex-Fr Alessio. The case against him was opened by Carlos José Ñáñez, Archbishop of Córdoba, and, although the relevant Vatican department would have had to issue the appropriate decree, its was announced by the Judicial Vicar of Córdoba.

  12. Come on now!
    You are not seriously suggesting that the Pope was going be a gay-marriage supporter. His predecessor carefully placed intelligent, conservatives into positions of influence.
    And that is what he is. He holds the conservative Catholic position. I don’t, but his position is perfectly legitimate if not a little disappointing…but it was not going to be otherwise
    Be thankful that you have an intelligent and compassionate man…not some boof head gay-denier!

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 13 Apr 2013, 1:37pm

      Compassionate my arse, comparing Argentinian civil unions to the lesser of two ‘evils’ at the time of Christine De Kirchner’s bill for equal marriage implies our unions are equally evil. Such words don’t promote compassion but intolerance, discrimination and homophobia, sometimes ending in violence as we’ve seen in Paris over the past several days, all orchestrated, aided and abetted by the roman cult.

  13. ChrisMorley 13 Apr 2013, 2:22pm

    Inaccurate reporting by Pink News.

    He’s been sacked as a priest, laicised in Catholic jargon, not ‘expelled from the church’, which is far more serious and is called excommunication.

    “He automatically lost all the rights of the clerical state and he is no longer related to its obligations” explained the documents, which was signed by Father Dante Eduardo Simón, the Judicial Vicar.
    http://www.argentinaindependent.com/tag/jose-nicolas-alessio/

    1. The traditional word for what has happened to him is “DEFROCKED”.

      Hilarious.

  14. Catholic Church does not allow tolerance in its own ranks. Good priests are expelled for being understanding. Paedophile priests are protected and hidden. That is the essence of the catholic church. Wolves covered in lambs´ wool.

    1. That There Other David 13 Apr 2013, 9:53pm

      It’s amazing just how much the Vatican-led organisation resembles all those temple priests that Yeshua Ben Yosef reportedly spoke out against isn’t it? Even the Gospels want nothing to do with the Catholic Church.

      The one they supposedly follow the teachings of most certainly wouldn’t.

  15. Dr. John Dwyer 14 Apr 2013, 1:59am

    Praise for Fr. Jose Nicholas Alessio! The true Church has never belonged to the hierarchy. It belongs to the brave lovers whose Imitation of Christ supersedes obedience to convention.

    1. It is said that theologically (and theoretically) the Spirit blows where it will, and the Spirit is love in the here and now, etc., and those who would follow in the footsteps of Jesus would have a preferential option for the poor.

      And that, according to Ratzinger, is Marxism, so anti-Catholic.

      What a kettle of fish !

  16. he stood by his convictions and refused to toe the line, outcome was predictable

  17. Jose Nicholas is not alone in his treatment by the Catholic Church.

    In Ireland, Father Tony Flanagan claims that he’s been threatened with excommunication for suggesting that there might be women priests at some time in the future, and also for some other claims about the history of the church, which the Vatican doesn’t like.

    When I grew up in Ireland during the era of Church abuse, a Chrisitan Brother who a friend of mine confided in about the abuse he was suffering from another Brother was to see the good Christian Brother sent of to work in the ‘missions’ and the abuser remain in the school.

    My friend, Solas as he was known affectionately, a loved and beautiful boy, took his own life and we found him hanging from a tree at the back of the school, a victim in my view of the a Catholic Church lynching.

    The views posted on here by John Jones that the Catholic Church has in some way dealt correctly with Child abusers is absurd to say the least.

    In Ireland those who were brave

    1. enough to speak out about their abusers, often were the target of vicious hate campaigns against them by neighbours, employers, colleagues and once friends.

      I was born in Madelene Laundry.

      A hell-hole of a place, if ever there was one.

      I was born in 1966 – yet only last month did the Irish Government finally accept their collusion with the Catholic Church in running what today would be described as near to a concentration camp you could ever get to post-Hitler’s demise.

      Every effort that I made to trace my natural mother has been frustrated by the Catholic Church who amongst other tactics, destroyed many records and in many cases even denied that some of us were born there.

      Next week I return to Ireland for my late father’s (step-father’s) anniversary. I will sit in the Catholic Church as a mark of respect to this much loved, much missed kindly man who saved me from the clutches of the Catholic Nuns.

      I would like to see Catholic church tried for crimes against humanity.

      1. What’s often overlooked in claims of clerical abuse against the Catholic Church is that it was only/predominantly boys who were sexually abused.

        This is to let the off with the worldwide abuse of women and the demonisation of single mothers.

        What’s generally not known is that in the Magdelene Laundries, women were forced to give up their child. There was no choice in keeping one’s baby.

        In return for the nun’s compassion – single mothers were forced to work unpaid for a period of at least 2 years during, which their child was taken and given to another Catholic family.

        Prior to the mid 1960s – There was no legal frame work for adoption in Ireland.

        When proposals were drawn up, the biggest object to making Adoption Legal in Ireland was the Catholic Church’s Archbishop McQuaid.

        For more information on the Madelene laundries:

        http://theraggedwagon.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/1993-riddle-of-the-magdalene-laundry-dead-who-are-they/

  18. This is all just part of the usual behaviour of the Catholic hierarchy. Authoritarianism, cover-up, rewriting of history, belittling and bullying anyone opposing them.

    I have just been reading an interesting book by Daniel Goldhagen, A Moral Reckoning, about the Catholic church’s role in the holocaust. It makes very uncomfortable reading for me, and should make any honest catholic hang their head in shame.

    And it seems that lessons have still not been learnt.

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