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London: Christian teacher banned after branding gay people ‘disgusting’ in front of class

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  1. Another day, another magic-boggled dimwit. If he would like to say that anti-LGBT animus is absolutely at the heart of the Christian faith, then he might have had a case. I am repeatedly told that it is not (something I find bloody hard to believe).

    He may find his mouth-breathing stupidity to be dogmatically endorsed. But so is slavery and genocide. Would he think he can stand up and say that slavery is a good thing? That infant children should be smashed on rocks? That if you are angry enough with your neighbouring tribes you can slaughter them and butcher their genitals as proof? All of the vile crap is in that putrid book he founds his ridiculous beliefs on. And none of it is considered relevant or acceptable, so why does this fool think his gay-baiting is?

    Oh yes, because like all fucking christians he is a cherry-picking hypocrite engaging in confirmation bias because he hasn’t got the guts to say he doesn’t like us.

    1. Slavery in the Bible is not slavery as we understand it today. Biblical slaves volunteered to do unpaid labour to pay off debts. Besides, very few Christians take the Old Testament word-for-word. They believe it to be allegorical, metaphorical, parabolic, etc. And psalm 137 (dasheth thy little ones…) is not a directive to do that. It’s merely a description of an event. If you want to beat the Xtians at their own game, you have to stop taking things out of context, thinking you have the Xtian snookered and loudly proclaiming victory. Any serious Christian would dismiss your comment as a puerile, ignorant rant. And the Bible isn’t ‘putrid.’ It’s full of beautiful poetry (the KJV at least).

      1. Except all that leviticus crap, that they base their asinine bigotry on, is in the bloody Old Testament!

        And it’s wall to wall savagery and genocidal mayhem. Fuck the poetry.

        1. Dave North 12 Apr 2013, 7:16pm

          I love how they have “bible versions”.

          At the last count there were 123 “versions” of this fantasy.

          Each of them different.

          So which “version” is correct. They can’t all be.

          1. Scottie Warren 16 Apr 2013, 5:20pm

            I reckon none of them

      2. “Besides, very few Christians take the Old Testament word-for-word.”

        You’re right they cherry pick the bits of it they like, the bits about Soddom and Gommorah and then if you point out some of their hypocrites by quoting from the Old Testament, they say, “Oh well that was in the Old Testament”, without a hint of irony. Then they ignore the the parts of the New Testament they just don’t like, and if you quote the New Testament they say that you don’t understand it or you’ve taken it out of context or some other ridiculous excuse.

        So you’re right it is pointless to try and beat these Christians at their own game, because they are largely* a group of cretins, liars and hypocrites. It’s best to just say, “I don’t really care about your book of fiction, you have absolutely no right to force your beliefs on others, and no right to be homophobic and have your hate speech upheld in law.”

        *Largely, not all.

  2. /cue those arguing against equal marriage to state teachers will be forced into promoting gay marriage or be fired.

    1. Yes, and our legislators are going to have to show us what they are made of! They’re going to have to show some real conviction and stand up against all those homophobe MPs who demanded to know in February whether teachers would be permitted NOT to approve of Same Sex Marriage.

    2. Teachers should stfu either way and get on with it. There is no such subject as marriage at school and if there was surely they can present facts without opinion. Isn’t that a skill set worth teaching in itself?

  3. “I will not recant my beliefs. God comes first,” he said.

    Fine. And as I’m sure he truly believes his god will provide, I hope he’ll now stop whingeing and put his trust in accordance with Matthew 6:25-33.

    1. I wonder if god will pay his legal costs.

      1. Sister Mary Clarence 12 Apr 2013, 5:35pm

        No, that would be too simple, because (as we all know) God works in mysterious ways

  4. These self loathers are really a complete and utter waste of time and space.

  5. Sir, if your career is ruined, it is you who have chosen to ruin it.

    Your lifestyle choice. Your consequences.

    You had no need to feed your contentious beliefs as fact to your students. This is a form of abuse to the young people who were intrusted to you to be nutured and cared for.

    As you face unemployment, I’m sure you will get all the practical support you need from your fellow cultists

    1. Yes, he inflicted his private delusions on his students. If teachers believe in gobbledegook and mumbo-jumbo they need to leave it at home.

  6. If God comes first, dear, don’t become a bloody teacher!!

    1. Scottie Warren 16 Apr 2013, 5:20pm

      Well said

  7. More rubbish from Christians.

    No one was stopping him from believing what he wants.

    He was stopped from bad mouthing others. He wasn’t employed to give his personal views and he over stepped the mark. He has no one but himself to blame.

  8. It is absolutely right that he has been banned from teaching. This kind of rhetoric has no place in schools.

    Schools are meant to teach children to understand and respect others, no matter what.

    Maybe Christians are being persecuted, now they know how it feels!

  9. Liam the God 12 Apr 2013, 2:52pm

    Didn’t anyone tell this idiot that Clause 28 has been repealed? 20 years ago you could have got away with it, but not now!
    All the best, Barney the Elk

  10. … and it is exactly this sort of irresponsible brain-washing which results in confused teenagers, homophobic bullying and, sometimes, suicide. This demonisation because of a BELIEF has to stop. Religion must NEVER be allowed to become a licence to spread hatred. Disgraceful. I hope this imbecile is banned for life from teaching.

  11. Jock S. Trap 12 Apr 2013, 3:07pm

    Good!!! Nasty, vile bigot.

    They are there to educate no discriminate.

    They talk the same crap over and over and lets hope which religion they are in the right one.

    Personally, I’d rather just get on with life.

  12. Has anyone been following this court case? How did it become known that Haye said what he did? Was it that some student, or students, took exception and reported it to parents or other teachers?

    I find this fascinating because this week we are remembering how Thatcher brought in legislation which it impossible for teachers to say the opposite of what Haye told his students, and if any teacher back then dared to say ANYTHING remotely positive about homosexuality or some famous homosexual there was always the fear that some student would “grass” to homophobic parents.

    What a turn-around this news is from the situation under Thatcher! The HIGH COURT rules the opposite!

    1. Liam the God 12 Apr 2013, 3:17pm

      If you read the article he was “Dobbed In” by a teaching assistant. Good job, and well done to the T.A. :)

      1. Thanks. Lucky then that there happened to be a teaching assistant of the right persuasion in the classroom at the time that he was giving forth.

        1. Peter & Michael 12 Apr 2013, 5:46pm

          And this happened when our granddaughter went to Brownies, she told them that we loved each other and whatever was being said to the group was not right, unfortunately she was told to leave the group.

          1. Being kicked out of Brownies is quite common and you should have told her to treat it as a badge of honour. A badge worth more than anyone can earn at Brownies.

  13. DivusAntinous 12 Apr 2013, 3:16pm

    This just reminded me of something one of my teachers said in year 11. She was saying that being gay is some sort of illness and that “us normal people” shouldn’t be nasty to the gays. Unaware that her favourite student was a screaming bender.

    1. And that’s exactly why people like this idiot should be stopped.

  14. It never ceases to amaze me how the religious think that their right to believe in something somehow includes a right to persecute others. It makes for potent irony when they then claim they’re the ones being persecuted.

  15. I am deeply concerned about persecuting Christians. The lions might become obese.

  16. Spanner1960 12 Apr 2013, 3:22pm

    I feel so sorry for this man.
    The homosexual militia are constantly attacking these harmless Christians for saying what is their right.

    it’s a sad day for democracy when people that believe in imaginary beings cannot indoctrinate their dogma and hatred on 11yo children in the course of their own jobs.

    What is the world coming to?

    1. Liam the God 12 Apr 2013, 3:30pm

      You should put “May Contain Irony” when you post things like that: Quite a few on here miss the point completely. :)
      Unless you were serious, of course….

      1. I hope to goodness that the irascible and very changeable Spanner WAS being ironic.

    2. Ah irony, how I mourn and miss it.
      It’s now gone in this thin skinned, head up your own rectum, modern world.

      1. The modern world? Do you think the WWI period, for example, during which shops or venues (like the Bechstein, now Wigmore, Hall) had their windows smashed in and dachshunds were kicked in the street because of their German names, was so very much better?

        [Apologies for going off on a completely irrelevant tangent]

      2. It’s only gone on the internet because there are people like JohnE about and it’s increasingly hard to tell from text whether the person behind the keyboard is foaming at the mouth or not.

    3. They were year 11 students. So they would be between 15-16 on average, not 11.

  17. I knew I those Mr Men books meant something in the real world, I’m glad I don’t believe in God and never read the bible, but I don’t go persecuting Christians, or Muslims or any other religious beliefs for that matter, I do think everyone has a right to their own, I was born without a script, so I’ll not be judged by a book that has been written by man, and neither will I be dictated by one either. My life my rules, stay out of my life I’ll stay out of yours, if religion is making me to look like a criminal I’ll have a say and it won’t be something religious followers will like.

  18. barriejohn 12 Apr 2013, 4:02pm

    How do Christians manage to teach geography? The Bible quite clearly teaches, from Genesis to Revelation, that the world is flat and has four corners!

    1. History is a bit of a problem too – Earth only 6000 years old!

      1. David Myers 13 Apr 2013, 10:59am

        Not a problem for American tea partiers. Just part of the conspiracy to deny “Christians” their god given right to their own beliefs (but not their own set of “facts”).

    2. DivusAntinous 12 Apr 2013, 10:03pm

      I had a Muslim science teacher once and I was arguing with my foolish Christian friends about whether evolution was real, so tiresome. But my Freud asked the bloody science teacher if evolution was fact and he said no, because it said so in his holy book. Sigh

  19. Why do these vile examples of humanity spew such hatred in the name of a superstition that, when I was growing up always used the word Christian to mean – a benevolent, kind, tolerant person

    GOD does NOT and NEVER did Exist – BAN ALL Superstitions posing as faith!

    Enough of these bullies and their hatred.

    ‘Persecuted’ – my fat hairy ass – a taste of their own medicine more like!

  20. soapbubblequeen 12 Apr 2013, 4:04pm

    Good!!! Piece of sh8t. I hope he never works again.

  21. Robert in S. Kensington 12 Apr 2013, 4:29pm

    Now let’s wait and see ifTory MPs Tim Loughton and David Burrowes rush to his defence? This was the very point both were arguing for during the Committee Hearings for Equal Marriage. They wanted an exemption for anyone with a strong religious belief in conflict with the new legislation, not just in the public sector but for ordinary citizens as well as immunity from prosecution for those in the public sector. Thankfully, that amendment was shot down.

  22. Hmmm…. This’ll be interesting. Yes, he’s a fine upstanding ‘Christian’ etc, but will the Christian Institute and Lord Carey be able to support him in his rank homophobia?
    I look forward to heads exploding as they try to work out the right line to take .
    Do they endorse his bigotry or do they try to stifle his freedom of religion to condemn them all as Satanists?
    Someone pass the popcorn please.

  23. Christopher Coleman 12 Apr 2013, 4:34pm

    I entirely agree with everyone who has written that this foolish teacher should be prevented from entering a classroom again, because there is a real difference between open discussion and abuse of authority. I was educated by Jesuits who encouraged disagreement and I took full advantage of it, never once being compelled to change my views, because a teacher thought otherwise.

    Please remember, when condemning the bigotry of self-proclaimed Christians, that these people do not represent all Christians. There are many churches in the western world that welcome gays and lesbians and even perform marriages and blessings. Last year, the American state of Washington held a referendum on equal marriage. The Catholic bishops ordered their flocks to oppose it. Several priests refused to to that and their congregations gave them standing ovations. Equal marriage is now legal in that state, thanks in part to support from many practising Roman Catholics.

  24. I notice the various Christian right groups are all very silent on this case. They all support freedom of religion for teachers when it comes to sexuality, but not when a teacher is expressing his religious belief that most other Christians are wrong about something.

    1. I’d say the lack of interest from these groups is more to do with how they would look siding with such a cartoonish zealot. Haye’s language/ zealotry and where he voiced it cannot be explained away as ‘difference of opinion’ or ‘sharing faith’ etc and his whining about political correctness is a joke.

  25. Why should a teacher be fired for expressing negative (or positive) views about homosexuality (or anything else)?

    If you don’t agree with him, put your hand up and say so. Freedom of speech is absolute or it means nothing.

    1. A fifteen-year-old cannot be expected to question their teacher.

      A LGBT fifteen-year-old urgently needs to be told by teachers and other authority figures that she or he is fine as the person they are, considering that it is very likely that they are getting a different message from other sources and suffering enormously because of it.

      I don’t know why I have to say this to you in 2013.

    2. A teacher is an adult who is responsible for guiding and facilitating learning in the children and young adults in his/her care. This does not give them the right to stand in front of the class and dogmatically give their ignorant, hateful, discriminatory views with throw-away comments like this teacher did. These comments are illegal as they are classified as discriminatory and hate-speech. While in the UK they do have freedom of speech, it does not mean you can just go around saying things like this. There are things that are classified as hate-speech and these comments meet that classification. If a teacher genuinely plans a valid and constructive debate for chidren to see two sides of an argumant then that would be a valid way for the children to learn from the experience. But, it is not children’s jobs to have to stick up for themselves (potentially exposing themselves to bullying, ridicule etc) and argue with the dogmatic views of a teacher. This is bullying, plain and simple.

    3. You’d be happy for your children to be taught by someone who believes black people are subhuman, that fascism is an admirable movement, that the Holocaust is a myth, would you? Wow. Glad I didn’t go to a school that you sat on the board of.

  26. Yes, people have a right to religious beliefs but not to thrusting those beliefs on others. He can believe the moon is cheese if he wants – he just can’t go around spouting rubbish to other people, especially children. At the end of the day, if he’d kept his opinions to himself he’d still have a job.

  27. so mr haye where in the bible say hate the sin and the sinner?

  28. Early Christian teaching was all about suffering for your faith. Pilgrims would believe that the more pain they suffered, the closer to God they became (like Jesus on the cross). What happened to having to make sacrifices for beliefs? Now they want secular society to bend backwards, for others to have to suffer discrimination for their beliefs. They need to go back and learn something about the history of their own religion.

  29. Sister Mary Clarence 12 Apr 2013, 5:37pm

    What I find most unbelievable about the whole thing is that it only costs £4200 to take something like this to the high court.

    I always imagined it would be a small fortune

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 12 Apr 2013, 7:03pm

      Quite! During the equal marriage committee hearings, MPs Loughton, Burrowes and Shannon were bleating about the legal costs incurred by so called ‘christians’ having to defend themselves in court against allegations of homophobia often referring to the Lillian Ladele case. They tried to get an amendment passed to exempt them from prosecution and legal costs, but thankfully, it was shot down overwhelmingly. I’m intrigued now by their sudden silence in this latest case.

  30. What is it with these zealots who think they have a right to condemn LGBT students to their faces? Why should ratepayers have to foot the bill for such insolence?

  31. Well done to that classroom assistant.

  32. I think this teacher is about to feel the full weight of Proverbs 16:18; Pride goeth before a destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

    The man is there to teach, and not proselytize. His actions are that one step over the drawn line and any consequences are on his and only his shoulders.

  33. The 7th day adventists are just very angry people because they belong to a cult that has just got it wrong. They weren’t supposed to still be here because the lord was supposed to have come back by now and whisked them off to heaven.

    Oh dear! How embarrassing for them.

  34. Maybe he should give Peter Tatchell a call. He’s always happy to help.

  35. He got sacked. End of. Leave him to his beliefs. And our legal system.

  36. Serves him right. Exactly what he deserves. Now he can turn to his imaginary god to pay his meals. Or probably not if we the tax payors are paying his benefit claims.

  37. Why would he be shocked? If a teacher stood up and said black/jews/christians were disgusting then he’d be sacked.

    Christians are so egotistical. They think freedom means they should be able to persecute whoever they want to, but no one should say anything about their bigotry. Weird.

  38. Cue bleating and gnashing from the christian institute and the Daily Heil!

  39. Christopher in Canada 12 Apr 2013, 7:01pm

    His god should take care of him the same way he feeds the birds of the air…

    1. He has this fantasy about free speech and freedom of religion, but it’s totally unworkable. He made these comments *in class*–which makes this an exceedingly easy case. Comments made off campus might raise more tricky questions. But this case is not a tough one. More thoughts here: http://www.youthallies.com/anti-gay-uk-teacher-robert-haye-banned-freedom-religion-speech/
      Mike
      (www.youthallies.com)

  40. Richard the Big Bunny 12 Apr 2013, 7:16pm

    Oh, good gravity! I do tire of nutters …

    Some days, I just don’t want to read the news.

    I can haz gay & happy today?

  41. YouthAllies 12 Apr 2013, 7:19pm

    So sorry if this is a duplicate post. I tried to comment; not sure it worked; computer acting up.
    My comment was essentially that this is an easy, easy case because this fellow made this comments *during class*. Teachers don’t and can’t have unfettered freedom to exercise free-speech rights and freedom-of-religion rights in class. Mr. Haye fantasizes that they should, but a world with those freedoms would be a nightmare. More thoughts here: http://www.youthallies.com/anti-gay-uk-teacher-robert-haye-banned-freedom-religion-speech/

  42. There is a time and a place for your belief . That is something personal to you and should not interfere with your work. I might worship the pink fluffy panda, or Droidbot #6524, but I don’t stop work or blast my colleagues with it. There is a time and a place. and work is not the right time or place. Stop forcing your stuff onto others.

  43. The death of Margaret Thatcher was a reminder of her vicious Clause 28 against “promotion of homosexuality” by local authorities that led to teachers losing their jobs or being shut up under threat of job loss, and of libraries having to remove books that treated LGBT people as if we were normal. Fair enough that the pendulum has swung the other way.

  44. Brenda Louise 13 Apr 2013, 4:58am

    Robert Haye. your statement;“Christians are now being persecuted in this country for believing in the Bible.That cannot be. We have a right to believe and express what we believe, but people are now afraid of being punished for not being politically correct.This country is a free and democratic society, but is it? Is it really?”, shows us that you’re the worst bigot of all. I understand the Christians need to proselytize to people all over the world, but to spread hate against the gay community in school has a very different approach. As a straight student, one could validate his desire to bully and even seriously hurt a gay person in school.

  45. If god comes first, then go and ask him for money to pay food, rent, etc. Before his rights are the rights of students who have the right to receive a comprehensive education where they are taught that all are equal and all have rights, then their right to believe what they want, even if it is in a non-existent being who performs magic.

  46. So if this guy and his Seventh Day Adventist mates organised society, how ‘free and democratic’ would it be?

  47. This isn’t a freedom of expression or religion case, its a clear cut professional conduct case. This wouldn’t be tolerated if a teacher made these remarks about christianity either.

  48. John Allman 13 May 2013, 6:48am

    Robert Hayes violated the “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy towards people with homophobic beliefs, or minority conscientious beliefs in general.

    As a homophobe, Robert Haye’s job was safe, as long as he remained in the closet. He would have been within his rights to have given a detention to whichever student in his class of fifteen and sixteen year-olds had asked him what he thought of homosexuality. They had violated the “Don’t ask” rule.

    Instead of stifling any discussion of homosexuality as he should have done, he violated the “Don’t tell” rule himself. He outed himself as a homophobe. As somebody now *openly* homophobic, he had lost the protection he had enjoyed whilst he had remained in the closet, and now he will never work as a teacher again.

    “Don’t ask, don’t tell.” Which part of that policy is it so hard for religious and other homophobes understand? Why do they insist on being in our faces, by expressing their beliefs, when interrogated?

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