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French Senate approves crucial article of equal marriage bill

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  1. Jock S. Trap 10 Apr 2013, 10:52am

    As here in the UK also I’m lookin forward to standing up and saying “In Your Face you nasty Bigoted people!”

  2. 179 votes to 157 is sadly close. The legislation may get through but gays and lesbians in France will know that about HALF the French population are vehemently against them.

    And I hate to say it but although the Bill may be passed, then the half that are against it may be so angry, judging by the recent fiery demonstrations in Paris, that homophobic attacks in France may sadly increase.

    Look at the appalling list of attacks on gay men that have been perpetrated in New Zealand at much the same time as that country moved toward Civil Unions and, more recently, towards Marriage Equality.

    We ought to compile such a list here in the UK, I think.

    1. de Villiers 10 Apr 2013, 11:57am

      I think that half of France is probably contre the gay marriage but only a minority are them contre vehemently.

      Most people are socially conservative and would vote non if the vote were put to the referendum – but it is likely that they will not oppose strongly its continuation. I would be surprised if the right tried to reverse it.

      Also, many people, whether heterosexual or homosexual, are unconcerned with the civil marriage and instead opt for a PACS. Of all the unions granted to heterosexual couples, nearly 45% choose a PACS over a civil marriage at 55%.

      This is a good law for the equality and the symbolic effect but it is unlikely to make much of a practical effect.

      1. I disagree with your statement about the effects of PACS vs Marriage. Yes, in the UK the differences between Civil Partnerships and Marriage are mainly in the name (which in turn has an effect on its recognition abroad). The name is important, but the effects will probably not be extraordinary. However in the case of the French, PACS are quite different from marriages, and one of the main differences comes in the form of adoption rights. For heterosexual couples entering PACS, this isn’t much of an issue since they can biologically reproduce and their children will be recognised as such for both. However for gay couples adopting, only one of the parents is recognised as such, and thus in worst case scenarios, one parent will not be able to take medical decisions for his/her children, and in the horrible case on which the “legal” parent were do die, the children would be removed from the care of the other parent even if he/she were as much as a parent throughout their children’s lives.

        1. Fascinating, Joseph. Thank you for this information.

      2. You “think” that only a minority of the half are “vehemently” against gay marriage in France, do you? Well, that’s not what my French friend who lives in the heart of Paris tells me. Apparently dinner parties in Paris for the last six months have been dominated by this issue and tempers have flared, and they continue to flare. Apparently people are largely either vehemently for or vehemently against Marriage Equality. Perhaps it partly because France is at root a Catholic country.

    2. de Villiers 10 Apr 2013, 12:06pm

      I also think that the law passed by a confortable majority – it was 10 votes more than the majority required. 5 UMP senators voted for the measure.

      Moreover, the senat adopted the law “conforme” (in conformity?) rather than with modifications.

      So, the law was adopted with large majority and without modification. That is a positive result.

      1. de Villiers, while 179 votes to 157 may be a “comfortable majority” in terms of simply the votes themselves, I don’t think that it will be accepted as a convincing majority by all those who have so vehemently demonstrated their displeasure with Marriage Equality on the streets of Paris recently.

        1. Robert in S. Kensington 10 Apr 2013, 2:30pm

          I wouldn’t worry too much about that Eddy. Equal marriage will never eradicate homophobia. Even the Netherlands has it’s fair share of it. Those who demonstrated are a minute fraction of those opposed otherwise millions would have taken to the streets all across France. It didn’t happen. Just look at the solidarity demo in London on Palm Sunday, mostly French residents, less than 2000 and a small number of Brits. Pathetic. Even if it passed by one vote, it’s still a victory for equality.

          1. I’m thinking not so much about simply French gay men and lesbians being granted the right to marry, Robert, but what that vote actually indicates about the FEELING towards the issue and towards homosexual people in general. A result that suggests that only about half the French population thinks well enough of homosexual people to allow them to share the institution of marriage is not, in my opinion, the best.

            Yes, French gays and lesbians may well be rushing around and jubilantly getting married quite soon, but if roughly half the population despises them for it, it’s not really a great victory.

            To put that another way: French lesbians and gays could feel far more respected if, let’s say, roughly 80% of the votes, and roughly 80% of the population, were staunchly in support of Equal Marriage.

        2. de Villiers 10 Apr 2013, 3:09pm

          A margin of 22 (179 voices) is quite a comfortable majority by present French numbers – when the party proportions are:

          Socialist : 128
          Communist : 20
          Vert : 12

          CDI (centriste) : 32
          RDSE (right and left) : 18
          Independent : 7

          UMP (right) : 131

          The left carries 160 voices. The right carries 131 voices. The RDSE has no partisan alignment so in this way some senators are on the right and some are on the left.

          A margin of 22 is in this way a comfortable margin. Not only did all the parties of the left vote for the measure but there were 5 UMP voices and one centrist voice but also 2 UMP senateurs abstained and 1 UMP senateur did not voice.

          I hope that this law endures.

        3. de Villiers 10 Apr 2013, 3:11pm

          — votes – not voices.

          ALso – that the law passed with conformity in the first article is an important victory.

        4. de Villiers 10 Apr 2013, 3:18pm

          The French can have other matters about which to worry – given that the French government is close to collapse.

  3. I’m so glad this is finally happening in so many countries this year… The Uk, France, Uruguay, Colombia, New Zealand, several states in Brazil and in the Us… It won’t be long till every democratic nation will have marriage equality!

    1. Steve of Melbourne 13 Apr 2013, 8:17am

      Maybe Australia will join that SSM list in the year 2050…

      Australia is a total embarrassing joke to the world with racism, homophobia and xenophobia and has three things that are complete and utter crap caused by politicians on both sides (both Labor and Liberal are to blame). Starting with crap two-land single carriageway highways (Pacific Hwy as an example), crap and very slow broadband speed and crap outdated bigoted marriage laws still on the books since from 1961 – can you believe that!

  4. Well done French politicians!

  5. Robert in S. Kensington 10 Apr 2013, 12:15pm

    Take note,Loughton, Burrowes, Lord Carey, C4M/CI, Christian Concern, Anglican Mainstream, Archbigots Welby and Nichols, and finally, the House of Lords. It’s coming whether you like it or not.

    Since polls in France indicated that the public supported equal marriage from 61-63%, I wouldn’t be concerned just how close the vote was a few hours ago, just as long as it continues to pass on Thursday or Friday.

    1. This is a bit blinkered. SSM at any price? What about the homophobic violence there has been recently in France? It could well increase.

      1. Robert in S. Kensington 10 Apr 2013, 5:31pm

        SSM isn’t going to stop homophobic hatred. Would you rather Hollande withdraw the legislation to appease the opposition? I really don’t believe violence against gay people would diminish one bit even if that were to happen. Gays aren’t safe anywhere in spite of equal marriage in eleven countries. It’s still happening regardless. Holland has seen some violence towards us, so have Belgium, Canada and of course the U.S. We shouldn’t be intimidated in spite of it. Perhaps you don’t feel strongly about equal marriage but many of us do, no matter what may follow. We have laws to deal with hate crimes and so too do the French. The culprits will eventually be caught and dealt with accordingly. They can run but they can’t hide.

  6. Liberty, equality and fraternity. That says it all. These opponentes disgust me to my bones.

  7. Robert in S. Kensington 10 Apr 2013, 2:39pm

    No doubt, the BBC, Mail and Telegraph will give this short shrift, ot nothing at all.

  8. Barrybear1980 10 Apr 2013, 3:39pm

    Very close call, glad to see they have done it though.

    I will of course be interested to see what plagues and disasters hit France once it has all gone through though !

    1. Dave North 10 Apr 2013, 4:27pm

      Perhaps the cheese harvest will fail….

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