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Vatican advisor: Pro-equal marriage Catholics should not take Communion

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  1. This advice shocks me even more than the usual homophobic nonsense from the Vatican.

    It is completely beyond me how anyone who claims to be Christian can so blatantly ignore the words of the book they’re supposed to believe is Holy.

    While I don’t believe the Bible is anti-LGBT, I accept that it is not exactly clear. I don’t agree with anti-LGBT Christians, but I can at least see where confusion arises from.

    What is clear is that Christians shouldn’t judge anyone else! It’s just been Easter, and many Catholics will have heard this quote read out in their churches, attributed to Jesus by John: “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

    Even if they are confused and think it a sin to be pro-LGBT, which I believe to be an incorrect stance anyway, do they seriously think it is a correct Christian response to ban people from having Communion?! There’s no confusion here – they’re plain wrong.

    1. You don’t believe the Bible is anti-LGBT? I assume you’ve read the passages that are always being quoted?

      1. Not only have I read them, for almost a decade I lived in miserable denial of my homosexuality because of them.

        A year ago I finally could no longer accept that an all-loving God would leave me unable to love. After an extensive period of research over several months, and a study of the points on both sides, I was finally able to reinterpret those passages and reconcile my faith with my sexuality.

        This leaves me pro-LGBT, but with an understanding of where many of the religious anti-LGBT lobby are confused.

        I’m a member of the CofE and, although ashamed by much of what my church does, I’m incredibly proud of the many people within it who are now finding their voices in the pro-LGBT argument. I hope, in time, to be able to strongly add my own to the argument.

    2. In the New Testament, Jesus Christ personally describes marriage as being a permanent commitment between a man and a woman. Nothing else.

      He therefore lays out the genuinely Christian view as regards what constitutes a marriage and indeed on divorcee too.

      The Catholic (“Universal”) Church is the Church which was created by Jesus Christ, when he made St Peter its first leader (pope) – it therefore sticks directly to what Jesus Christ said about marriage and indeed divorce.

      The Church is not “judging” people by asking them not to take communion – rather it is asking them to show some personal integrity: because currently they are claiming to be Christians while openly rejecting what Jesus Christ said. This obviously is not credible, hence the call for integrity.

  2. By the same token then, you cannot support the Catholic Church and say you’re against Paedophilia.

    1. The church is basically saying that more then half of American cathollics should leave the church

      God – pls make it so. To the dying day of the Vatican it will wonder why it went broke.

      BTW in America religious personel are not covered by social security or unemployment insurance. When they come begging at my door I will offer them an empty plate

  3. Hammer.
    Nails.
    Coffin.

    1. Do they refuse communion to the 90% of women who use contraception? Did the Archbishop of New York refuse to celebrate A requiem mass for serial divorcee Frank Sinatra in St Patric’s RC cathedral? Methinks they are obcessed with homosexuality!

      1. John Jones 9 Apr 2013, 2:18am

        A Requiem Mass can be offered for anyone (who is dead), and should be offered for those in most need of prayer. It is offered for the dead, so the person for whom it is being offered would not be receiving Holy Communion anyway.

        a) Everyone / anyone can attend Mass
        b) In good conscience, not everyone can receive Holy Communion — one must be a Catholic in a state of grace, who has fasted from food and drink for at least one hour beforehand.
        c) If you don’t like the rules, don’t join. Simples.

  4. Godric Godricson 8 Apr 2013, 4:43pm

    I’d argue that all Roman Catholics who receive communion at the moment are complicit in the homophobia of their Church. I’d rather they stayed away from communion for a while until the Church reforms itself. Even more empty pews?

    1. I agree. Anyone, and I mean any adult, who goes to a Catholic church and puts money in the pot does so in the full knowledge they are supporting homophobia, oppression of women and rape of children.

    2. You mustn’t buy the interpretation of communion put about by the Catholic hierarchy. To me as a Catholic layman, taking communion is following the instruction of Christ: “Do this in commemoration of me”. It is an assertion of your belief in Christ, not a vote in favour of the priest’s (mistaken) ideas on such subjects as homosexuality, or the bishop’s, or the Pope’s.

  5. Eamon O'Connor 8 Apr 2013, 4:57pm

    The wannabe medieval lords who run the Roman church seem to ignore the teachings of the gospels in order to proclaim themselves Wannabe Levitical Jews. They seriously need assistance in getting themselves out of their finery, ermine and lace and into the 21st century.

  6. They are only recently back in communion with those who believe the Earth revolves around the Sun…that’s the file they’re working on.

    1. John Jones 9 Apr 2013, 2:25am

      ?

      It might interest you to know that Copernicus was a Catholic priest and that Galileo was never barred from receiving Holy Communion, and did, in fact, communicate regularly throughout his life.

      No one is forced to be a Catholic… If someone doesn’t believe in what the Church teaches, why would they want to receive Holy Communion at a Catholic Church? Surely, it would be better for them — for their own integrity — if, as Ed Peters suggested, they didn’t receive Holy Communion?

      The Church doesn’t actually worry about membership numbers… When she was founded, the founder was hanging, dead, on the Cross, and there were only three members: his mother, and his male and female best friends.

      1. The Church doesn’t actually worry about membership numbers… When she was founded, the founder was hanging, dead, …

        It’s moved on rather a long way from there though, hasn’t it? Geographically and in material terms. And somehow I doubt the RCC church would be so busy drumming up support in developing nations if it was genuinely unconcerned about numbers.

  7. Robert in S. Kensington 8 Apr 2013, 4:59pm

    So why don’t they just go ahead and excommunicate catholics who support equal marriage then. Oh no, they wouldn’t would they for fear of a major back lash and losing money in the collection plate every saturday or sunday.

    1. denying communion is only one or two steps below excommunication. It’s a scare tactic the Catholic church have used for centuries. If you don’t obey no communion for you and you’ll go to hell. The trouble is that since the 16th century the threat has somewhat diminished, although the hierarchy may not have noticed… I doubt this last gasp effort will do very much at all.

      1. John Jones 9 Apr 2013, 2:31am

        “no communion for you and you’ll go to hell”… What?

        Back to Catechism class… You may find out that the reception of Holy Communion is not fundamental for salvation.

        A person denies him/herself Communion if s/he doesn’t want to be a member of the Church anymore. It’s as simple as that. If people don’t like the rules, they don’t have to stay — and, in fact, it is often healthier for them if they choose not to stay.

        Also, if you looked at your first statement, you’d actually notice that denying communion = excommunication… which makes the ‘two steps below’ qualification unnecessary.

        1. You poor, mentally-ill individual. Religious faith is a mental illness, and the Roman Catholic Church is the working of evil in the world.

        2. Back to history classes for you the church used communion as a weapon for years. If you do not receive communion it is supposed to be because you’re a sinner who does not follow the teachings of Christ. Sinners who do not follow the teachings of Christ go to hell according to your lovely little religion (especially historically). If you repent your sins and renounce your views you are ok, you’ve gone back to following the teachings of Christ and they’ll give you your bread and wine.

          Denying communion does not equal excommunication nowhere did I say that. Are you a catholic that believes being a catholic automatically saves you from hell? As long as you aren’t excommunicated you’re A-ok? That explains how the priests get away with buggering little boys. They’re confirmed members of the club now so they’ve safe from the fires of eternal damnation, as long as they repent of course. How many Hail Marys does it take to atone for these types of sin?

  8. Paul Brownsey 8 Apr 2013, 5:01pm

    “enacted to remember the life and death of Jesus.”

    It is not, according to the RC Church, a merely memorial act. That is Protestantism. According to the RC Church, it is the literal eating of Jesus. And by “literal” I do mean literal!

    1. They even have a word for it: Transubstantiation.

  9. Glad to see that one Catholic priest has said that the views of Peters and Vigneron were of a minority of American bishops.

    But what a manifestation of manipulative evil we have here from the two Catholic clerics concerned. It’s the sort of thing that spitting priests in priest-ridden Ireland used to utter from the pulpits back in the dark dark days, not so long ago, before most Irish Catholics saw the light and fled the Catholic cult at last.

  10. sandra smith 8 Apr 2013, 5:09pm

    This Archbishop caused me to leave the Catholic Church for the Episcopal Church when he sent a representative to preach that we should spend. Lent working for the uncharitable and patently unconstitutional “defense of marriage act “. He is not a Christian, and is apparently not aware. of the doctrine that marriage is a sacrament conferred by two people on each other which the Church can witness. or refuse to recognize as it pleases.

    1. Marriage is a legal contract between two individuals, recognised by the state. Many such couples have no religious affiliation and many don’t recognise the autority of any cleric and do not need or seek any such blessing. Marriage can be a sacrament for you if you like, but it’s not necessarily so.

  11. To all of my Catholic friends: what clearer message do you need? They don’t want you. You really don’t need them.

    1. Jesus wants you and Gave up His Life for you though do not be upset that is the Truth and the most important thing.

      1. The most important thing is that you abandon your consolatory supernatural fantasies. We know very little about Jesus, including why he died.

  12. .....Paddyswurds 8 Apr 2013, 5:33pm

    It is wishful thinking that the Roman Catholic Paedophile Cult imagines that anyone who supports Equality of any kind would want to be associated with such a cult never mind take part in their twisted death fetish rituals.

  13. Mumbo Jumbo 8 Apr 2013, 6:19pm

    Crackers.

    1. Jean-Paul 8 Apr 2013, 7:32pm

      Chips.

  14. Great idea – money on bread and wine saved, communion over in two minutes flat.

    Did they say they’re also excused when the collection plate gets passed round too? Thought not.

  15. So a few people will be denied “I can’t believe it’s not Jesus crackers” and some red wine; some actually believe they are drinking blood and eating flesh – must tell them it is the 21st Century. I’m sure they are terrified at missing out on the zombie ritual. Easier to attack the Gays rather sort out the paedophiles in your cult isn’t it.

  16. Threats and bullying. Another standard from the Vatican toolkit. I can recall some years ago the church threatened withdrawal of communion and even excommunication for politicians who voted in favour of abortion. They really are a despicable bunch.

  17. If people sign up for Catholicism, then they should know the rules. Hate or love Catholicism, people aren’t forced to be Catholics… So I ain’t bothered about pro ‘same sex’ marriage Catholics rant against Vatican rules, really it is their stupid fault for signing up in the first place…

    1. John Jones 9 Apr 2013, 2:40am

      Hear, hear.

      It would be a very odd person who spent his life wanting to join the Reform Club only to complain that he wasn’t allowed in for not wearing a jacket and tie… and refused to bend to that simple rule.

      Catholics who don’t like the Church they belong to would be much better — psychologically speaking — if they left. The Church isn’t going to change, so why spend one’s life and energy getting worked up about something beyond one’s control? As for non-Catholics getting worked up about who can and cannot receive Communion in a Catholic church… well, need I comment on how bizarre that seems? It’ll be like someone who never goes to a particular bar — and with no intention of ever visiting it — complaining about the price of gin in said tavern.

    2. Dave North 9 Apr 2013, 5:55am

      “people aren’t forced to be Catholics”

      You are kidding!

      They are indoctrinated into it as children and spend there lives suffering guilt over it.

      I know. I married one.

      1. We are talking about people in their 30s and 40s in the Catholic Church Dave that are moaning about not being able to receive Communion. I am sorry but Dave since everyone is indoctrinated into something as a baby being dependent on their parents, I don’t buy that. If people don’t like a religion simply don’t practice it, especially a religion like Catholicism, which has to be the most undemocratic religion in the world. These hypocritical ‘Catholics’ make me mad, its so logically inconsistent wanting change, when Catholicism offers none!!!

  18. Christopher in Canada 8 Apr 2013, 7:55pm

    Christopher Hitchens is laughing in his grave.

    1. Lol, He is saying, “What did I tell you”?

      Actually the church should be more concerned about the march of rationality in countries that have adequate education. That means education as opposed to indoctrination.

    2. John Jones 9 Apr 2013, 2:48am

      Christopher Hitchens would have believed that he no longer exists — so ‘laughing in his grave’ seems a bit disrespectful. Having said that, maybe he is existing somewhere? If he is, I don’t think anyone knows whether or not he is ‘laughing’!

      Despite his often irrational hatred of all things religious, it is probably safe to say that Hitchens was intelligent enough not to have wasted his energy on the internal rules of an organisation he had no intention of joining, which is more than can be said for those non-Catholics who seem intent on getting themselves worked up about this issue.

  19. I am a Catholic who attends Mass but refrains from Communion and Confession in silent protest of the sexual ethics of the Church. The lack of unity on this doctrine confuses me. Some priests will tell you that homosexuality, contraception, masturbation, oral sex, pre-marital sex is not a sin and others will say the opposite. I’m a theologian so I feel a bit nervous about anyone asking me why I refrain from the Sacraments. This protest won’t change anything but it is my own personal way of telling the Church that I belong just as much as anyone else.

    1. John Jones 9 Apr 2013, 2:51am

      At least you seem to have some integrity. Catholics do not have to receive Communion whenever they go to Mass and should only go to Confession when they actually want to repent of something.

      1. I respect myself and my religion.

  20. Yeah that Guy 8 Apr 2013, 8:38pm

    Politicians here in the US are saying that equal marriage is the gateway to people marrying animals. But isn’t communion promoting cannibalism? Are you not eating the body of Christ?

    1. So it’d seem but Catholic canon law is full of deeming provisions that let them off the hook at otherwise awkward moments. Superstition defies logic.

  21. PeterinSydney 8 Apr 2013, 9:18pm

    These are despicable people. That they would use the most precious Catholic matter as a political battering ram deserves the strongest condemnation. They are the very antithesis of the Mercy and love of Jesus.

  22. johnny33308 8 Apr 2013, 9:19pm

    It is beyond unconscienable, reprehensible in fact, for anyone religious in authority to threaten and intimidate their ‘flocks’ in any way whatsoever, but this denying communion to those whose hearts are not filled with hatred is the most ‘dark’ thing the RCC has done in recent memory. Shameful! This organization proves yet again that it is amoral, unethical and lacks all compassion. It is unfit to exist in human society.

  23. That There Other David 8 Apr 2013, 11:07pm

    Wouldn’t it be great if next Sunday more than half of his congregation simply stayed away entirely? Better yet, if all the pro-equality Catholics across the Western world did the same?

    They’d soon change their tune when the legacies and collections started running dry. Some of the priests, bishops etc. might suddenly find themselves having to get off their lazy backsides, go find a job, and work for a living.

    Imagine their CVs. Previous experience? Telling lies and conning people. Yeah, very employable.

  24. LOL. I wonder how the people at CatholicsComeHome.org feel about putting themselves in an awkward position. “Give up your silly heathenistic/pagan ways and come back to the church… but ONLY if you do exactly as we say.” “Welcome back to the new Catholic Church, who apparently believes that even though you should come home, you shouldn’t believe in equal marriage, and if you do and partake in Communion you are defying the sanctity of the church… oh, and don’t pay any mind to these priests over here.” Can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you choose to be elitist, you have to contend with people simply not liking you for it.

  25. A Canadian 9 Apr 2013, 3:03am

    And yet at the Last Supper did Jesus not share bread and wine with Judas even knowing Judas betrayed him? This business of who can and cannot receive communion in the RC is a man-made rule. Needs changing I think. And to those who comment about not ‘joining’ the RC church; please remember that most of us were baptised into this church at a few weeks of age. Even writing a letter to the church as an adult and requesting removal of all records relating to association with the RC church changes nothing – they’ll put the letter in the records along with everything else and still count you as one of their own! Trust me I used to work for a RC parish. In my mind I have QUIT the RC church not just lapsed.

  26. Barry WilliamTeske 9 Apr 2013, 3:04am

    “Vatican advisor: Pro-equal marriage Catholics should not take Communion.”

    Do not pass go.
    Do not collect $200.
    Go straight to hell Mr. Vatican advisor.

  27. E in Canada 9 Apr 2013, 3:31am

    My communion is between me and my God. Someone important once said (John 8:7) you shouldn’t condemn unless you are without sin (read legal sins like pedophilia and self developed sins like homosexuality). These two need to follow more closely in the footsteps of our Pope Francis.. i.e. spend more time serving the needy and less time telling people how they ought to think.

    1. Jean-Paul 9 Apr 2013, 6:27am

      ‘developed sins like homosexuality’ ? ?

      That’s a new one ! !

      I agree about altruism, though.

    2. legal sins like pedophilia and self developed sins like homosexuality

      As opposed to some other forms of sin that are considered acceptable?

  28. that is discrimination as we have said – and unchristian there are many christians that have faith in the Communion that was given for them why should they be denied this fundamental Christian rite??? It is a violation of Human Rights to practise their religion, trust the Catholic church!!

  29. The destruction and collapse of the RCC is not far off. They are at emnity with the Lord God and have changed what is beautiful and pure into something that is hate filled and Satanic.

  30. Other belief systems, wafers and wine are available.
    Since the Vatican clearly don’t want us or our supporters I say vote with your feet.
    Worst case scenario, you’ve just saved yourself the cognative dissonance of pretending the cracker you just ate is the flesh of a 2000 year old jewish street preacher.
    Personally I have no craving for the flesh of anything that’s been dead for 2000 years, any meat in my freezer that’s older than 3 months is a bit suspect, let alone human meat.
    Buy yourself a wagon wheel and wash it down with a nice chianti, you’ll probably enjoy it more.
    The Catholic church can look elsewhere for its collection money.

  31. Sofia van der Linde 9 Apr 2013, 9:18am

    You can rely on the Catholic leadership to be consistently on the wrong side of history. They have opposed nearly every civil rights and other emancipation movement in the past 250 years.

    Their double standards are staggering. They never excommunicated Hitler – yes he was Catholic – and they helped a lot of his henchmen escape but if you have an abortion to save your life, you are automatically no longer a Catholic unless you apologise for saving your own life.

    They excommunicated a mother and doctor for terminating the pregnancy of an 11-year-old who would have died otherwise. The rapist who caused the entire situation is still a Catholic. Raping children is not a crime worthy of excommunication obviously.

  32. Colin (London) 9 Apr 2013, 9:59am

    You have to laugh here. I’m an agnostic so it’s all funny to me.

    Some fairy stories written 2000 years ago. Now the boys in pink dresses and the women in penguin suits have lawyers to attempt to validate the fairy stories and a media all of their own to fabricate the bull shit.

    Honestly the world is dead if we give any credence to these nutters.

    (includes half of my family as well)

  33. Colin (London) 9 Apr 2013, 10:01am

    Surprised they have not made a Walt Disney version yet! Or have they?

    1. Hmmm, not Disney per se but wafers for human consumption that are actually the flesh of dead people?
      Soylent Green comes close
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-m4k6S-rKY&NR=1&feature=fvwp

  34. I think the mad uncle in the attic next door has started wailing again. The noise is irritating but the rest of the family will just give him some sedated cocoa and pretend they agree with his ravings until he calms down and then get on with business as usual.

  35. This is blackmail – plain and simple. If I were a catholic (which, thank god ((pun intended)) I am not), I think I would tell them where to shove their communion. I don’t want to belong to ANY organisation which sets out to control the way I think. Religion has done that, for its own ends, for hundreds of years (“Do as we say or we’ll burn you at the stake”). I thought those days were over. Clearly, some saddos still need the ‘comfort’ of these organisations to get them through life. Personally, I’d rather have hot needles in my eyes than be conned by all this nonsense.

  36. Jock S. Trap 9 Apr 2013, 11:05am

    Not so long ago with the Marriage Equality in the air, Catholic Bigots… sorry leaders were claiming that David Cameron was acting like a dictatorship because of his stance.

    Following that we have been subject to a barrage of homophobic abuse and discrimination.

    So add onto that any Catholic who agrees with marriage Equality and now that they themselves face discrimination.. who is acting like a dictatorship.

    Yet again a religion shows it cannot progress just oppress. It’s just disgusting. Time for their obsession to end or the religion will end for them.

  37. douglas in canada 9 Apr 2013, 1:59pm

    Too bad the catholic church didn’t spend more time and money making some kind of recompense for all the children and adults who were sexually, physically and emotionally abused by priests.

    Don’t even THINK of calling anyone else’s laundry dirty when you have so many filthy sheets hanging out on your own line, especially when no one else sees any dirt on your neighbor’s laundry.

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