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US: Transgender man told he cannot divorce wife

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  1. Wow! we can’t be married because we can’t reproduce, and we can’t get divorced because we can reproduce. What fun to be transgender!!!

    1. Yeah IA quite the circular argumenet

  2. floridahank 29 Mar 2013, 9:01pm

    This “he,she, it” person needs to see a psychiatrist immediately. What a wacko!

    1. WTF !!!!!!!!! get your own cause !!!!

    2. Deus caritas est 30 Mar 2013, 10:44am

      Whilst I agree that this individual is clearly not of same mind, one must be careful about the feelings of others. It is important to be generous of heart and to avoid offensive language.

      The child’s chances and outlook is what should be of primary importance and I fear this would never be the case in this situation.

  3. Why are lesbian groups even commenting? this has nothing to do whatsoever with lesbian/womans rights!!! This is to do with a man (genetically, biologically whatever) who is masking as a wolf in sheep’s clothing, I wish that trans people would stop hijacking the gay rights cause, it has nothing to do with sexuality but gender and cocks, on or off. The gay rights movement has struggled too long to let it be tarnished and undermined by people who cant decide what sex they are. Sexuality ??? how many male to females have i seen who id as lesbian, wtf !!!!! Don’t think cos you get your bits cut off you’re not a man, lesbians want to be with women, not wolves!!! Get your own cause stop mutilating ours!!!!!!!!!!!

    1. Lesbian groups have just as much rights as gay men’s or gay men dominated LGBT groups. The ‘T’ often sits very uncomfortably at the end of the alphabet soup. TS groups are virtually non-existent and someone needs to stand up for them

    2. You do understand this is about a transman, right, not a transwoman? FtM? Okay. I get it. Your argument is just an angry, self-righteous, unrelated tangent. Cool.

      You seem to lack in basic human decency. It’s really great that you want to throw under minority groups under the bus because you feel like they “tarnish” your cause. #snark

      Grasp onto as much privilege as you can and hurt as many people as you can on the way up. That’s what capitalism looks like, anyway, right?

  4. I have great sympathy for transgender people but this is ridiculous, you can’t change from female to male but decide to keep your womb and then have kids, a man cannot give birth! This is the kind of nonsense that gives religious fundamentalists their ammunition.

    1. Despite people karma-bombing you, you are absolutely right.

      Either Beatie wants to be a man, or he wants to be a woman. He can’t be both. And I hear them already: “why not?”

      THIS is why the trans movement does not belong within the LGB movement.

      1. but… why not?

        if you already knew you would be asked, why not give an answer to that question in your post?

        I don’t know about what “movements” belong together, but as far as i’m concerned (and my gay friends would agree) I stand alongside anyone who suffers discrimination just for being different when it doesn’t hurt a single other person on this planet (except people who choose to be disgusted by it / ridicule them).

    2. They can do whatever they want with their own body. It’s not for you to say what they can or can’t do with their own body. Trans people still have paternal and maternal instincts just like everyone else. To demand they can’t have kids, or should be forcibly neutered, is not your call, or anyone’s call. Several countries are abandoning that demand of forced sterilisation in their laws now for trans people, Sweden being one. It’s sick that that law ever existed in the first place and still does in most countries. Not all trans people have or want surgery, but they still live successfully in the gender that’s right for them. As far as what’s between their legs, that’s between them and their partner, no-one else. Very few transguys have bottom surgery, because it’s just not good enough. With the hormones though, the deeper voice and facial hair, they pass well as men. Most have a full mastectomy though so they feel whole and can wear Tshirts, they don’t want breasts, never did.

      1. Deus caritas est 30 Mar 2013, 10:49am

        The point is mental stability and this person cannot be in this state. Focused on media attention. Confusion for all involved. This is not the right way to introduce a precious gift from God in to the world. A child needs strength and environs in which to grow and be nurtured and by de facto of the transgendered state of mind I cannot see where this is ever present.

        1. I assure you this person is far more mentally stable and knows exactly what they want, far more than people who throw out comments about an imaginary being. Children need loving parents and a loving home environment. Gender isn’t important. Perhaps you’d like to force all single parents, widows and widowers to get married. Get back to you book of fairy tales. ‘God’ brought no-one into this world, there’s no such thing. Do you still believe in Father Christmas too? The Easter Bunny? Witches on Halloween?

        2. You’d probably massively disapprove of my cousin’s family, then. She’s in a mixed-sex marriage and neither of them is transgender, but the had to use an egg donor and a surrogate in order to have children. Plus the “media attention” due to my cousin working in disability rights.

          Media attention happens to a lot of people, and it doesn’t mean they can’t have a stable family. We’re hardly talking about a celebrity with a drug problem, either – it’s not that major as media attention goes. And there’s no reason to think everyone involved is confused, just because it’s a type of family you’re unaccustomed to. I know two families with a trans parent, and none of the kids involved feel confused. They recognise that they have a wonderful family and consider themselves lucky.

  5. Jon "maddog" Hall 30 Mar 2013, 12:00am

    The problem would be solved if the law read that two consenting adults could be “married”, and two consenting adults could be divorced in all 50 states.

  6. This is absolutely ridiculous. His birthc eertificate says male and thus he is legally male and Arizona MUST honor the birth certificate. He needs to sue the state of Arizona and get big bucks. Maybe then Arizona wil stop acting like a third world country.

    1. How can his birth certificate say male when he is female? He was born a female and has the genetics of a female. Hormones and surgery don’t change DNA.

  7. Disheartening to see some of the ignorant comments here. Respecting someone’s gender identity really isn’t that hard. Being a stick in the mud and deliberately calling them the wrong gender, or worse, ‘it’, is just cruel, rude, and unnecessary. You wouldn’t like to be on the receiving end of such venom.

    As for this case, it’s just a nonsense. I don’t see of what relevance it is whether there was evidence of Thomas being male when he first married, he’s certainly one now. He’s asking for a divorce now, not then. Judge deliberately being difficult, I think.

  8. It may not be the judge’s fault. It sounds like there are problems with gender realignment recognition. What’s the legal situation in that respect in the US? I know that here in the UK you can get a Gender Recognition Certificate, which is problematic in some ways, e.g. you have to have completed transitioning two years earlier.

    This is also making me wonder whether same-sex couples who marry abroad in order to take advantage of a country offering same-sex marriage would encounter the same problem if they wanted to divorce in their home country.

    1. The legal situation in the US varies by state. Some states would have granted the divorce without any trouble (even if they don’t recognize same-sex marriages), others would have come up with this same result.

      If, as another commenter mentioned, he did have his birth certificate changed, the judge should have honored that and granted the divorce. I’ve never heard of a state deciding that they don’t want to accept a birth certificate from another state as valid identification.

      There is nothing exactly like a Gender Recognition Certificate in the US. Not something that applies to every state. Each state has its own rules about when and how they recognize the gender of a trans person. It can vary from being able to change all of your identification just on the word of your doctor; to needing to have had complete reassignment surgery; to never being able to change the gender on some pieces of identification.

    2. Except Its not crazy. I am a woman.
      I walk look and act/live as a woman.
      Not an other or third gender.
      Daniel quit other ing me.

  9. This is all a bit crazy from both sides I feel.

    Perhaps it would be easier if some Trans people did not always force themselves into one gender or another, this kind of gender flippiing is not helpful, though I know tons of pressure comes from society.

    I often think that we lack the language.

    To me Trans people fall into a grey area, a ‘Third Gender’ if you like….& I think thats a good thing & we all ought to start to embrace this.

    1. But it’s not about what it is ‘to you’. It’s about what it is ‘to them’. Maybe they don’t feel they are a grey area or a third gender. Maybe they feel they are the other sex to what was assigned at birth. Mistakes are often made and there are several different ways in which a person who appears to be one gender or uncertain gender can actually be the opposite and most of those are as much to do wi th biology as genitalia are. I know many people who feel androgynous, but they are not the same as those who feel they have been designated the wrong sex.

    2. Last I checked, the concept of the “third sex” (gender not really being a term used at the time) was used to describe gay people around a century ago. Do you really want to continue in the path of homophobes? There are plenty of people who think that gay and bisexual folk need to stop mucking around and just settle down into “normal” relationships. Guess what, they’re wrong, and they don’t know what it’s like for us. I gather you don’t really understand what it’s like to be transgender. Neither do I, to be honest, and I’m still struggling to work out exactly what gender is. But you know what? When people tell me how they experience life due to being transgender, I believe them.

    3. I agree with you that we often lack the language to talk about a lot of things. Very true.

      Some people don’t agree with the idea of the binary and choose to use gender neutral pronouns and/or identify as genderqueer. Some people decide to hold onto their birth-assigned genders but identify as queer, which can means a lot of different things to different people, some related to sexual orientation and some related to gender identity.

      Others identify strongly with the opposite of their assigned gender at birth and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s a really dated argument to say that they are somehow giving into the pressures of society and thus somehow reinforcing a binary. Gender is not wholly socially constructed; science is pretty sure it’s a fair mix of nature/nurture at this point.

      There needs to be room and respect for all gender identities.

  10. You know, PN, your choice of a naked pregnancy photo doesn’t really suggest that you respect trans people. Even the BBC managed to do better than that.

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