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UK: Woman jailed for obtaining sexual consent of another woman ‘by fraud’

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  1. Liam the God 22 Mar 2013, 12:54pm

    Not sure how I feel about this one: is it a slippery slope, or a justified sentence? Given that someone was given only 3 and a half years for KILLING someone I’d say it’s disproportionate, but judges are all senile these days so don’t know what the fvck is really happening in the world outside their sheltered accommodation.

  2. Wait a minute …. this young woman gets 3 years for being fraudulent and a young man who murders someone by setting fire to his genitals gets 3-1/2 years. Something is amiss with the UK justice system!

    1. Liam the God 22 Mar 2013, 1:00pm

      Don’t forget is also on the sex offenders register for life, too: Totally fvcked if she wants to get a job anywhere anytime ever. Take a life, get 40 months, but lie to get a shag and get a life of misery! I can’t wait for a MAN to get dragged up for lying about his status to impress a girl under this precedent! Unless, of course, it only applies to GAY people…..

    2. Julian Morrison 22 Mar 2013, 3:29pm

      He is not a woman, he is a trans man. The “deception” didn’t happen. He should be set free with an apology immediately.

      1. theotherone 22 Mar 2013, 4:40pm

        amen!

  3. So a male in the body of a female had sex, and I am presuming a relationship, is now in jail for fraudulent consent. So if an actor plays a well known character and the viewer watches the character, idolises him/her, then progresses to have sex with the character (a.k.a the actor), is the actor too fraudulent? There must be more to this than meets the eye, something doesn’t add up.

  4. Given that someone was given only 3 and a half years for KILLING an autistic young gay man by setting fire to his genitals-this sentence is beyond ridiculous. As I understand it consensual sex between adults, even if young, is not a crime. It seems the crime here is one of fraud-so why not then start jailing all the liars and frauds we come across in our romantic/sexual lives…most of the population would be in jail-utter nonsense!

  5. What?! So, if you identify as a male and you have female genitalia, and you apply for a job as a man, are you being fraudulent? This person identifies as male. How is that a crime? This seems crazy but I feel like there must be more information here that we’re not being told. If he raped her then I understand being convicted but if not, then why a gaol sentence and a lifetime on the sex offenders registry?

    1. If you’re a “stealth” trans man or woman you run the risk of being put on the sex offenders register for life if you have a sexual relationship with anyone, according to the information in this article.

      I’m not sure that impacts on other things such as employment, but it seems suitably awful nonetheless.

      I think a remarkable lack of compassion and understanding has been shown. This should have been resolved outside of a courtroom. I understand how devastating it would be for a 16 year old girl to find out her (1st?) boyfriend had been lying to her throughout their entire relationship, but this entire thing was taken too far.

      I hope there is some way to appeal the sentencing to at least get this sex offenders register business quashed.

    2. For things like employment, I’m pretty sure you are supposed to tell them your legal gender – it does affect pensions and so on (not that it should). I’m not quite sure what kind of idiot judge would think the same applies to having sex with someone (“Welcome to my bedroom. Before we start, please fill in this intercourse requisition form…”).

      1. James, You hit the nail on the head with “legal gender”. Under the Gender Recognition Act this is still determined by your both certificate so Scott is legally female until he gets a new birth certificate with his Gender Recognition Certificate

  6. dorset bob 22 Mar 2013, 2:12pm

    ????????? This is certainly a case with many complications and questions. It would seem that the relationship was quite happy untill the deception was discovered. Is it possible to have sex six times with a strapon without noticing ? is it possible that the relatives were more upset than the girlfriend ?

    1. That’s what I think. I have trouble believing the girl had no idea her partner was female bodied. As it was the mother that apparently started the whole thing I’ve got a feeling that parental pressure could be involved.

      Personally, I’m having a hard time not seeing this as an immensely transphobic sentence – and that frightens me.

      1. iloveyouJustine 23 Mar 2013, 11:17am

        I’m almost certain that the “victim” knew she was a girl – her family was very homophobic and did not want their daughter being a lesbian. The worst thing about this story is a strap on was NEVER used between the pair, and the 6 counts are 3 of fingers and 3 of tongues. I believe that Justine may have lied to the girls parents about being male but not to her partner. Justine was clearly wearing bras. If justine was really trying to decieve her, why would she not have strapped them down like other transmen do? This story has been so twisted and Justine has been wrongly sentenced. I know justine personally and she is so kind, gentle and fragile. She would never harm someone intentionally and she had so much love for the girl, she didn’t do all this in order to get someone into bed or take their virginity. She has been through years of seeing social workers and therapists, failed her exams thru stress, the way I see it, she has already been sentenced.

        1. Thank you for your input, it makes more sense than the newspaper story. It means that there are 2 victims now, Justine and her girlfriend who must be totally confused and have been bullied into her current position.Dosent look much like justice to me.

        2. Jane Baker 23 Mar 2013, 3:03pm

          Thank you very much for your input, you are very brave.
          I have been posting on this story in defence of Justine, my gut feeling is that a serious injustice has been carried out. If you know Justine personally and if you know the facts around the case, such as you say that you are certain the “victim” knew Justine was a girl then I think you must make these facts known to the appropriate people. Being on the sex offenders register will impact on Justine for the rest of her laugh, preventing her from entering into a wide range of professions not too mention the mental and emotional impact.
          It is very hard to believe that the other girl was unaware of Justine’s sex and I can totally believe that the family lied in order to prevent their daughter from continuing the relationship.
          You really do need to make these facts known and keep your evidence carefully together. This is clearly a gross miscarriage of justice and it seems that the burden lies on you to bring this to light.

        3. I was horrified when I read that Justine had been sentenced to 3 years. Thank you for posting – this explains where the 6 counts came from. Frighteningly fingers are all that is required for a charge of assault by penetration, an offence which has a maximum penalty of life imprisonment.

          Do you know why Justine pleaded guilty? And does Justine intend to appeal? There are a lot of people and organisations who would love to help her – for example Galop (www.galop.org.uk)

  7. Itchycoo Mark 22 Mar 2013, 3:00pm

    Is this the case that had a TV programme about it last year????

  8. And not one of the criminal fraudulent bankers who have f@#ked millions causing massive damage to entire nations have faced any consequences other than to be handed even more money!!!
    May seem like it’s a spurious comparison but actually it brings into sharp focus just how corrupted things have become

  9. Wow, think of all persons who have lied about being rich or having a fancy occupation. Think of all who have promised a job career, being a model, participate in a movie, in exchange for sex, will we soon se them behind bars too?

    1. Liam the God 22 Mar 2013, 3:30pm

      No, because “everybody” knows that Heterosexuals are always lying to each other: The first time you utter “I Love You!” is code for “I really want to get into those pants of yours and do unbelievably rude and pleasurable things to them!”.
      All the best, Peter Stringperson.

      1. Liam the God 22 Mar 2013, 3:32pm

        That should have been “To you” at the end of my little soliloquy. When can we have an Edit function?

  10. This is a case of outrage by the judge and the family that a girl pretended to be a boy. How many teenage boys pretend that they ‘love’ a girl or want to marry her just to get her to have sex? Millions no doubt. Should they be incarcerated and on the sex offenders list for life for their fraudulent methods?
    This case is an outrage. We should stand together and defend the incarcerated girl. Being transgender is not a crime and neither is not divulging your gender identity. How did this sad case ever get to court?

  11. Hang on just a minute. This article is all wrong. The “woman” is actually a trans man, who was jailed for not disclosing his trans status to a partner. Here is a more accurate article:
    http://www.scottishtrans.org/Article.aspx?id=100
    This sets a dangerous precedent; disclosing is risky, it puts trans people in a position whereby they become vulnerable to attack. I’m sure many of you have heard of the “trans panic” defence line n court. Well, this is basically what it is, except now in legal form. If they’re now going to jail and punish trans people for trying to avoid abuse by not disclosing, then that is appalling. They are basically protecting the people who attack and abuse trans people because of “trans panic”.

    1. Julian Morrison 22 Mar 2013, 4:42pm

      There have been two cases like this recently and this one is different from that one (that was Chris, this is Scott). In particular, age of consent was an issue with Chris, although the sentence was still transphobic bullshit. Age is not an issue here, 16 is legal and a 16-18 relationship is age appropriate.

  12. theotherone 22 Mar 2013, 4:17pm

    why is pink news refering to a transman as a woman?

  13. theotherone 22 Mar 2013, 4:21pm

    dear pink news.

    today you report that a transwoman dies as a result of abuse and bullying from the media and then you – A BLOODY QUEER NEWS SORCE – misgender someone.

    you should be bloody ashamed of yourselfs.

    1. ” That we live in a society where such an at-risk group can be subjected to personal and generalised vilification in mainstream media should be a source of deep shame for us all. As David Allen Green so eloquently puts it; “the tabloids treat trans people the way they would treat anyone, if they could get away with it”.”

      From the PinkNews article on Trans* suicide rates.

      It would be nice if they were as critical of their own articles as they are of the ones from other news sources.

  14. This is Lesbophobia, not Transphobia.

    1. theotherone 22 Mar 2013, 10:04pm

      no, they identify as male. simple really

      1. Yet again the LGBT community are arguing among themselves.
        Let’s stand together for a change and stand up for this teenager.
        It is really not clear from the horrible homo/lesbo/trans phobia reporting in the press as to how this teenager identifies. Yes she was passing as a man on the occasions when she met with the supposed ‘victim’ but we really don’t know enough to insist that her gender status is this or that. The most important thing is that this sentencing is clearly unjust. The sex was consensual. I hope the LGBT community can come together and support or initiate an appeal because it seems like she has few supporters in her life right now. Arguing gender politics, is of course important, but it shouldn’t overshadow the fact that the teenager here is in deep trouble-3 years in prison and branded a sex offender for life. Seems to me that it was the mother who instigated police criminal proceedings and not the said ‘victim’. I’d like to know how I can help??

        1. theotheronee 23 Mar 2013, 12:52am

          the story has been discussed in great detail on other sites, the person identified as male

          i would love us all to join together on this one but how can i stand with someone who would erase the identity of both myself and this person and the real issues in this case?

          1. I am not sure if you are referring to me. Please read my post again. I am not trying to erase anyone’s identity. It is not clear from the generally phobic reporting how this person identifies. Perhaps you have read something that I haven’t that clarifies the issue. If so please copy the sentence or sentences. Without decent reporting how can we know what the real issues and motivations are. My point still stands that the most important issue so far is that this person needs support-by way of a good defence with experience of sexuality and gender issues. They are vulnerable and as far as I can tell they don’t have the kind of support that they need. The LGBT need to come together on this and stop pushing their individual agendas.

  15. I am deeply shocked that a young highly vulnerable person struggling to find their place in the world and to find a little human intimacy has been criminalised.

    As others have commentated, millions pf relationships form every day with underpinned by deceptions, particularly amongst the young. (“Yes, I’m on the pill” being a common one). We don’t even prosecute these people, let alone jail them.

    This is Taliban-style lawmaking.

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