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Scotland: Case of trans man facing jail for sex ‘by fraud’ raises concerns of Scottish Transgender Alliance

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  1. I can’t believe that this man is facing prison for not revealing his past.

    Whatever next, a full written sexual history for any new sexual partners?

    1. Whilst I think gaol is too much for this crime, I don’t think it is a small thing tricking someone into sleeping with you by getting them to think you are a different sex to the one you were born. Most people would want to have sex with someone sexed the “gender” they purport to be and would be quite repulsed to think they are having sex with someone who has disguised their birth sex.

      I am a gay man. I would not be the least bit interested in having sex with a “transman”.

      1. Fine but then I am a gay man who has transitioned not all of us after we have tranistioned call outrselves trans anymore! i live stealth and should have ever right to do so. I do not see why we should out ourselves in every relationship, what you see is what you get if they did not like what they saw why did they go with him???? Fraud? My God and listen to yourself you obviously have no idea about what being transgender is, we are born the sex we are I AM A MAN my body just diareed, go et some education on it, its bad enough having the whole world against you but to have your fellow LBT community not trying to even understand you is even worse….
        Oh and I hope to God this poor guy has his ender Recognistion Certificate because if not he will have to be put in a womans prison and I know for a fact I would kill myself… he will be on suicide watch and everything… I think that the two you “ladies” in this should also be looked into for LYING about their age!

    2. I think the Gender Recognition Law (2004) may protect him because it’s a criminal offence for someone to ‘out’ the person’s previous identity – if, of course, the parson has the Gender Recognition Certificate. The point here is that the law of fraud seems contrary to GRC and a good lawyer would have to untangle the mess but would have a case.

      1. He doesn’t have a GRC as he hasn’t transitioned yet, but he’s still covered by the Equality Act 2010 and formally considered to be transgender. It’s a protected characteristic in terms of discrimination.

      2. even if he had a GRC; proceedings before a court are exempt from the “Probibition of Disclosure” within the GRA.That said, the GRA does require us to tell partners of our history or a marriage can be annulled.
        Nevertheless – this is a disgraceful case.

  2. Absurd that he could be prosectuted for not revealing his gender past. Laws should be there to protect the rights of gender identity.

    On the other hand, the potential under-age part is something he maybe could have been more in control of. Difficult to say without knowing the facts.

    1. or that he lied about his age to her? that would have been enough to secure obtaining sex by fraud.

  3. TheBrutalKremlin 12 Mar 2013, 3:29pm

    Well, I’m all for transparency, like, that FRAUDSTER CARDINAL who just got off Scot Free from years of lying to parishoners about being a celibate hetero…

    1. TheBrutalKremlin 12 Mar 2013, 3:30pm

      PS. a.k.a Keith O’Brien

  4. ChrisMorley 12 Mar 2013, 3:48pm

    Sexual minorities are a very easy target for prosecutors.

    This reminds me of people living with HIV being prosecuted for passing on HIV and not telling their partner they have HIV before sex. The majority of those prosecuted are in other minorities as well – eg because they are of an ethnic minority or a recent migrant.

    What I would like to know is how come the police and ordinary Scottish people haven’t been prosecuted for ’obtaining sexual intimacy by fraud’.
    – Police officers working under cover infiltrating protest groups like Greenpeace lie about their names and backgrounds to have sexual relationships: none have been prosecuted: this is a gross fraud. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/feb/03/police-spies-identities-dead-children
    – No gay or lesbian or bisexual lads and lasses are being prosecuted for not revealing their same sex pasts to opposite sex partners.
    – No straight lads and lasses are being prosecuted for lying and scheming in order to pull.

  5. Will straight men be charged with fraud for telling lies about their financial status or relationship status? Where does it end? Or is it just a case of pure discrimination? The latter I think!

  6. Utter and complete right off “right on” NONSENSE! The whole structure of the heterosexual world is based on “obtaining sexual intimacy by deception”if it wasn’t we wouldn’t have “make up” or corsets. If this is upheld then lets send all women who don’t reveal what they naturally look like to prison.

    1. This is not by any means my first comment! Checked my inbox, & nothing there. and why do YOU, if you are just another punter (as you seem to be passing yourself off) need to know what my email is? There is hardly any difference in injecting bags of silicone into your chest to pretend you have tits you never had.should all men who have had their willies turned inside out to make a vagina have to have FAKE tattooed on it ?

  7. Can D Wink 12 Mar 2013, 7:37pm

    I find this case shocking, how can the dependent be procecuted for concealing his gender! I’m apauld that he is now a sex criminal and is on the sex offenders list. This feels like a case from half a century ago.
    Joe Smoe – get over it – I find your comments offensive and I’m always very suspicious of someone who is so sure of their own sexuality. I see human sexuality as being fluid – expand your mind and you might discover it expands your desires.

  8. Walla Johnson 12 Mar 2013, 11:05pm

    Whatever your personal sexual proclivities or hang-ups (whether you’re a gay man who wouldn’t want to have sex with a transman etc), if you jump into bed with someone and later are disappointed by some aspect of that person, then if you’re really THAT bothered, ask them, they’ll probably be glad you did, – “repulsion” goes both ways. But for the rest of us who don’t actually care, I personally don’t expect someone to “out” themselves to me, just as much as I don’t care how many GCSEs they have. I like women, and to me that absolutely includes transwomen. Could this apply to someone “in the closet”? Why not get to know a person before you have sex with them. Novel idea.There is a big difference between “tricking”, which implies lying, and non-disclosure, which is a matter of privacy. As there is a difference between what you can expect to know about another person that you barely know, as against a matter of trust and openness in an actual relationship.

  9. She must have noticed his fake cock, something isn’t tight here.

    1. Nice selection of transphobic comments here – terrific.

  10. no crime has been committed, so he can’t face jail, why is this news for Pink News website

    1. He’s already been convicted and is awaiting sentencing. I think that’s news. Frankly I’m shocked that it took PN so long to start reporting this case.

  11. As a lesbian I would feel threatened if I somehow was attracted to a woman who turned out to have male genitalia in the privacy on my home or theirs. It is a safety issue for women. The other point I want to make is that if people lie about their anatomical sex which is what this is then it is a form of ‘mental rape’ . In this case this person is clearly mentally unstable and that really is her only defence especially when she needs to lie about her age and sex in order to ‘have sex’ whatever that means to her/him. Had it been someone else they would be charged with attempted sexual assault, psychological rape (to include the ‘victims’) and pedophillia.

    1. Thanks Jaq, nice to know that you feel someone like me should be charged with ‘psychological rape’ just for having a relationship while being true to myself.
      A transwoman is no more likely to be violent than any other woman, and in fact it’s far more likely that they would be the one attacked if they come out – it’s a Real safety issue for us.

      There is nothing mentally unstable about being transgender. It’s pretty simple when you get down to it really, your sex and gender don’t match. So either you get really depressed trying to be something you are not or you try to make them match.

      The age thing is another matter, but since we are talking about Scotland the age of consent there is 16. So if he believed she was 16 there really shouldn’t be a charge there right? Now as for him claiming he was 17, that might be something they could charge him for, but I really don’t know how that works in Scotland.

      Thanks for making even Pink News an unsafe place for transgender people.

  12. This is disgusting!
    People have been telling others lies to get them to sleep with them for years, men, women, and trans people alike. I’m a rich, I’m a virgin, I don’t have any STI’s, etc, etc.
    I don’t see any cases of the them being imprisoned or classed as a sex offender.
    Being trans is hard enough, without being treated like a low life, sex offender.
    The only problem would be if he had knowingly had sex with an underage person or if he forced one of the girls to have sex with him.

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