Is he kidding ?!!! Who on earth would want, or even think to get, help from one of the most viciously homophobic institutions on the planet of the Earth.
These people have been behind funding every initiative opposing any sort of rights for us for hundreds of years, of persecuting us, torchering us, murdering us, imprisoning us, denomising us, vilifying us, painting us as “intrinsically disordered” and evil, and interfering with their rights, of reparative therapy with electrodes and castration, …… and they think we’d come to them for pastoral support?
Even a majority of Catholic followers acknowledge that messages from the pulpit have caused serious damage and harm to people who are gay, and led to an increase in LGBT suicides.
What else would you expect of the church of Hitler, gobbels, mengele, Himmler and Eichmann – who sent the gays as well as jews to the ovens.
This filth needs to be rooted out and all the leaders sent to borneo where the headhunters supposedly like white meat.
” struggling with same-sex attraction”
The only reason people are “struggling” with it is because this cult engenders an environment whereby people feel that there is a struggle.
When will they learn that they have NO business in other peoples bedrooms.
There’s no reason why anyone should have to struggle with a natural orientation – unless their religion tells them, endlessly, that they should. Paul said that in a grumpy letter, but Christ never did. And the very religious organisation that causes self-hatred should ‘offer help’? Help with what? The best self-help is shaking off their senseless teaching.
I wouldn’t go to a catholic priest if I were paid to. I will never forgive the roman cult for the serious harm it’s caused gay people throughout it’s vile history. Kearney doesn’t even condemn O’Brien and of course, he won’t. None of them will.
That said, we also have a similar situation with the CoE hierarchy. They’re not much better either. The majority of them are just as vile and hateful and they too have carried on the homophobic legacy since Henry VIII parted ways with the roman cult.
Both cults are delusional if they think they want dialogue with us. About what I wonder? They have nothing to offer us.
The Anglican cult will only go downhill now that Archbigot Welby is on the throne. But I see a small ray of light, where both of those cults die extremely fast, or more precisely their followers eventually have had enough, rise up, and overthrow the dark Neanderthals in charge, and re-construct the faith from within its followers. No more secret votes in Rome, no more stupidity over women bishops or blanket bans on same-sex relationships. Their followers will have to rise up against them or risk losing their churches altogether, as they are more and more despised by the majority for their anti-social views and interference in society.
Much as the Bible, and Koran, is mumbo jumbo supernaturalist codswallop and fakery, if the message of this man Jesus helps some people be kinder, happier, more thoughtful in their lives, without harming anyone else, then I see no problem. The problem is the political leadership, and mad men (and they are men, and mad!) at the top.
Gulliver, the only way both cults are going to change starts with the silent progressive clergy who support equal marriage and our equality. They need to stand up, make their voices and dissension heard without letup. If more of them drew a line in the sand agasint their respective hierarchies, perhaps we wouldn’t have a Welby or another Ratzinger style pope. Both cults can’t exist without members.
Gulliver and Robert, I clap loudly your use of the phrases “Anglican Cult” and “Roman Cult” (or “The Catholic Cult”)!
Can we please add the Islamic Cult, as well.
By all means, Eddy. Abrahamic cults indeed!
@ Gulliver – in relation to a previous article you said …”we should be very specific in language used, because generalising by some appears an attempt to smear any and all …, and that should not be the intent.
I understand your anger but if you are angry at the Pope, Cardinals and Bishops perhaps you could refer to them as the Catholic hierarchy or the Vatican. Similarly, if you are angry at the clergy then refer to them as the clergy or the priests. By referring to the Catholic Church and the C of E as cults you are actually being offensive to all Catholics and Anglicans, many of whom do not agree with their leaders (I think the recent poll stated that the majority of Catholics in the US support marriage equality).
I also notice that when you refer to Islam you say Islam and refer to its followers as Muslims. You never seem to use derogatory or insulting terms for this group.
Dear Jake, the Catholic church, and the Anglican church, and all churches, have a great deal in common with those groups that are referred to as cults, in the pejorative sense.
However, it ought to be borne in mind that the Oxford English Dictionary, no less, defines a cult as:
“Worship; reverential homage rendered to a divine being or beings.”
“A particular form or system of religious worship; esp. in reference to its external rites and ceremonies.”
“Devotion or homage to a particular person or thing, now esp. as paid by a body of professed adherents or admirers.”
So in fact it the usage has not the pejorative aspect you have perceived.
Context again. The word is commonly perceived as a pejorative and appears to be being used as such in these comments. Why is the word being used at all if not to denigrate the religions being referred to?
@ Harlequin. Exactly.
And gay means happy and faggot refers to a bundle of sticks. Cult may have originally referred to “a particular form or system of worship…” and those other definitions Eddy – 300 years ago – but in its modern usage (modern being the last 100 years or so in this case) it has a different meaning and connotation and is used in the perjorative – just as the word faggot is.
You can dress it up however you want but bigotry is still bigotry.
And Eddy glad to see you made it into the 19th century. Just 2 more to go.
“I think I can, I think I can…”
Jake, you’re right. I try very hard to be specific, especially since polls show most Anglican and Catholic “followers”, both here and in the US, are supportive and in favor of social justice, fairness and equality. Elsewhere I’ve specifically called on those people to rise up and take control by ousting the leadership, but sometimes, I too, am insufficiently clear.
Islam is the religion, and Muslims is the term for followers of Islam, but where anyone is homophobic, leader, follower, whether they be Christian, Muslim, or atheist, I consider them a hater. Some leaders are homophobic, some are not, some followers are homophobic, some are not.
If we can refer to the LDS as a cult, because of its very authoritarian control over its followers, we can certainly put the Catholic church in that same category – both would force teachers from their post simply because they are gay, or get a divorce. When a religious body exercises that level of control it is a cult.
And Catholicism is the religion…not the Roman cult Gulliver.
Homosexuality is illegal in most if not all Muslim countries and gays are gaoled or executed in these countries. I certainly would consider Islam therefore to have authoritarian control over its followers (I dare say that is an understatement) but nowhere have I seen you refer to Islam as a cult (but as your comments are so prolific I possibly could have missed it).
If you want to display signs of bigotry Gulliver that is up to you but at least be consistent.
And by the way I don’t refer to LDS as a cult.
I know the English are inherently anti-Catholic and anti-semitic but could you please practice what you preach and be consistent.
Have a good one.
Do you have any factual evidence for that? Where are you from by the way?
I’ve seen no evidence of that, although Catholics always seem to like to say that, for what reason I’m unsure.
Would I date a Catholic? Would I date someone who followed the Jewish faith? Absolutely. But I’d date them because I like them, and I’d only like them if they weren’t self-loathing like O’Brien and others. That’s why I said elsewhere that although I would certainly never wish to be married in a church, if the other person wanted to, and say they wanted a Unitarian, Quaker or similar service, then I’d almost certainly agree.
I live in London, I love this place for its diversity, I work with people from all over, from the farthest reaches of the planet, including people who are Muslim and Christian and Sikh and Jewish. It’s not difficult in any sense because they’re nice people. Oh, and I’ve had two boyfriends who were black. Fortunately I grew up in a place where there was, at that time, zero prejudice, so I never learned to be prejudiced.
White Man 1: What’s wrong?
White Man 2: Someone just called me a racist. I don’t understand how they could do that. I’d sleep with a “ni@% er any day.
From everything i read the churches in England and most of western Europe are all but empty
in England 1100 leave xtianity every day
In – religion is dead last on the concers of the Irish people – the most catholic of all nations in the world
in france – once solidly catholic almost no one of the younger generations goes to church any more, From a Catholic website….
‘Apparently there are still gay people out there who are struggling with feelings of low self worth.
We in the Catholic church recognise this – and with that in mind we feel we should point out that they’re all wretched sinners and should dedicate their lives to non-stop grovelling to our fictional despot in the sky who is completely impossible to please.
I mean have you read our book? ‘High maintenance’ doesn’t come close. Stockholm syndrome within a week or your money back*’
*terms and conditions apply.
Superb, riposte, Flapjack!
It never ceases to amaze me how people can buy into a religion which preaches
“We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy table O merciful Lord” and then goes on to tell the gay members of the congregation that they’re not even that worthy.
Perhaps the Holy See should pick up their global congregation’s therapy bill?
Religions have been deluding their followers about what the Bible actually says for thousands of years, because their own biblical scholars have known the truth. Gospels not written by disciples, massive discrepancies, fakery and forgery (common at the time), dishonest translations, homophobia inserted and texts twisted. People like Bart Erhman (see on Youtube) know the truth. and another guy Dr. John C. Holbert who I found last night;
There are dozens of different “gospels”. It was the church leaders, not “God”, who decided what books would comprise “The Bible”! As it is, “The Gospel According to Saint John” massively contradicts the Synoptic Gospels because the writer was trying to make a diferent point about Jesus (“The Word”). The Old Testament, too, was compiled by Jewish leaders from earlier writings, so who knows what THEY originally said? Ironically, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah has quite obviously been rewritten as a condemnation of homosexual behaviour, and, as with the creation stories, you can see the joins!
“Perhaps the Holy See should pick up their global congregation’s therapy bill?”
Indeed! Trade Descriptions Act. Good and Services. The right to a refund. Compensation Claims. And so on!
Why does the herd continue to allow this particular company, Catholic Cult PLC, to get away with a form of complete immunity?????
So, they reckon they need to imporve their “pastoral outreach to people who are STRUGGLING with same-sex attraction”!
Dear Catholic Sweethearts of Scotland, we LUXURIATE in same-sex attraction, we don’t STRUGGLE with it.
You’ve got the cart before the horse.
May all young gays and lesbians in Scotland be SAVED from having any member of the Catholic Church (or any other religion, for that matter) come near them with their strange antediluvian ideas!
Sorry! “imporve” = improve
Sorry, so furious was I with what I’d just read in the article.
“Struggling with same-sex attraction”. Tells you all you need to know about this bunch of retards. “Come to us and we’ll help you to become ‘normal’ again”. What a dork!
And that was from the man who is … “head of media” at the Catholic Church in Scotland ! I don’t think much of his PR skills. He is part of the problem not the solution. The solution is for him and that f-wit Tartaglia to high tail it out of there. Can we at least have a bigot with some media training !
Please – no! Let them make continue to make fools of themselves and show people what is really going on in their tiny brains!
(PS I bet he thought that this was going to go down really well when he read it over to himself!!)
Ah yes, hadn’t thought of that, good point.
In that case, I full endorse keeping him as head of PR :D
All things considered, it’s probably for the best that the Catholic clergy hasn’t been available to counsel those “struggling” with their sexuality, since they don’t seem to know much about sexuality in general.
Or marriage ! It’s strange that they should be counselling people on marriage and relationships … isn’t it?
Indeed! We have learnt very well, from cases in Ireland, Germany, Holland, Australia, and now Scotland, what happens when a member of the Catholic clergy is left alone in a counselling situation with a young person.
“Och, now, young Peter. Don’t be so downhearted. Let me help you with your struggle. Here, let me put my arm around you. You’re not alone. We all struggle with these terrible, terrible temptations which the Lord sends us! But we’re all only human. We can only seek the Lord’s forgiveness, even though we know we may err again. Does my arm feel nice around you, Peter? Do you want to put your other arm around me?”
On a lighter note: Does anyone else think he looks like Alan Carr’s Camp Brother? That face Makes Gok Wan look like Bruce Lee to me!
Oh, and balls to ALL religion, the end.
All the best, Vinny the Sheep.
Liam, none of us can help the way we look. But we CAN help the stuff we keep in our brains.
Really? who knew?
I am of course being sarcastic!!
I do wish religion had intelligent people to realise that the Very reason people struggle with same sex attraction is because of nasty bigoted attitude we have from said religion(s)!
To include and therefore compare us to social ‘problems’ yet again create yet more reason for some to feel isolated. It’s unforgivable, it’s disgusting.
Fact is they refuse to see the LGBT community as Anything but part of normal society so therefore how the hell can they help when they openly create the problem.
Blind and stupid it seems.
I don’t know if there’s any science behind it or not, but I swear all of these religious types have serious ‘gay face’.
I feel like there’s quite a phenomena of being able to tell when someone is homosexual, be it facial structure, mannerisms, etc.
All of these homophobic celebates look like the people you see on the scene.
Bruno, be careful. You’re straying into dangerous suppositions there. A certain group of fascists in mid-Europe had much the same idea in the 1930s.
If you try hard enough you can assemble a very very long list of exceptionally handsome butch men who were, or are, gay but whom no one ever thought, or thinks, they are homosexual. Equally, there are some heterosexual men who happen to look feminine.
Homosexuality doesn’t reside in our outward features: it resides in our brains. It’s about how we THINK about others.
Blimey, you don’t have a very high opinion of gay people then, do you? :-)
There, said their response would be to condemn homosexuality and not their reaction to it.
All he basically said is that they should support people into converting to heterosexuality, not accepting their homosexuality. they are still bigoted, still haters, still backward.
yuck – so much much for care and love – make me vomit.
Oh F*** OFF YOU BITCH! “Struggling” I am not struggling. Get out of this world. Please.
Not only has the catholic church not provided ‘support’ (whatever that means), it has been positively hate-filled. The only reason ANYONE ‘struggles with same-sex attraction’ is because of the continued ant-gay rhetoric of religion. If there was no anti-gay speech from releigion, people wouldn’t have issues with same-sex attraction. I wish people like this would just keep their noses out of human rights and the media would stop reporting their innane, childish utterings.
The churchof hitler, goebbels, Eichmann, Mengele and Himmler
Their idea of saving life was to help elect hitler.
BTW hiler also opposed abortion and birth control He needed more “meat and bones” for his army (M&B – what hitler thought of other people. When this facist bitches dog died he cried
““If you’ve got a drug, or alcohol problem, or homelessness, then we seem to be able to step in and offer you support, help and options. But when it comes to human sexuality, it just isn’t there at the moment. And that’s unfortunate.””
The church has a problem with homosexuality, homosexuals do not have a problem with homosexuality, they have a problem with the church and the homophobia spread by the church.
Perhaps the gay community does not provide enough support and direction for church leaders who are hopelessly lost and struggling with their homophobic attitudes to same sex attraction.
There have been numerous reports of them turning people who are gay away from homeless shelters that they run, even here, in the UK, and any they agree to admit they try to turn. In the US they have threatened to shut down, and in some cases have shut down, all sorts of groups, homeless shelters, adoption agencies, because they absolutely refuse to serve people who are gay, or in response to simply legislation to enable civil unions or equal marriage. They are quite good at threatening people. We could only help to provide comfort and support to those Catholics, gay and straight, who are deeply upset with their leadership – there is no hope for their leaders, they must go.
The cathoilic church is is not qualified to do any pastoral work or support.
What on earth does this idiot think he’s talking about.
In this country qualified professionals aren’t even authorised to carry our reparative therapy – all the psychological associations consider it gross misconduct – so there is no way religious psuedo-scientific mumbo jumbo should be authorised. In fact, any attempt, including that by religious groups, to carry out reparative therapy should be banned in law, as I’ve advocated before. That is no different that prosecuting religious groups who have caused deaths by advocating followers discarding their HIV medication and replacing it with prayer, or Jehovah Witnesses who have caused the death of their own child by refusing critical medical treatment.
Reparative therapy has been shown to cause considerable harm.
As the Bible says, “there is rejoicing in heaven over a sinner who repents”. However, we shouldn’t get too excited about Peter Kearney’s apparent sudden conversion to awareness of hypocrisy! As media officer for the Scottish Catholic Bishops, he has fueled some of their most homophobic comments over the years. The vocabulary he uses is coded language for the group Encourage which promotes celibacy for those, in their view who “suffer from same-sex attraction.” This is quite unlike the more realistic, pastoral approach developed in London through the Soho Masses initiative, supported by Archbishop Vincent Nichols of Westminster – http://www.sohomasses.com
Martin, the Soho masses have been shut down….
It was too much for the Catholic Hierarchy who said they were a victim of their own success.
Work that one out!
I am not struggling with same sex attraction – I am struggling with opposite sex attraction. Does anybody know a church or therapist that can help me get rid of those attractions? Everytime I look at women and have sinful thoughts I used to think of Cardinal O’Brien and it helped diminish the attractions. But now that this beacon of morality and purity has taken refuge in a safe house, and has advocated that catholic priest should be able to marry, my world has crumbled.
“If you’ve got a drug, or alcohol problem, or homelessness, then we seem to be able to step in and offer you support, help and options”
That would be exchanging one problem for another then, but being Gay isn’t a problem – unless you are a religious nutter.
Nice to see that the Catholic Church is still equating being gay to having a drug or alcohol problem, nothing’s changed.
Let’s be clear: gay people aren’t “struggling” with their same-sex attraction but with negative societal attitudes toward homosexuality, that are often based on religious dogma and bigoted venom coming from the Catholic Church. It’s the CC that is struggling to adopt a 21st Century attitude towards sexuality and homosexuality in particular.
The latest statements from the Catholic Church in Scotland confirms it. Remember, it was only in 1992 when the RCC finally conceded that the Earth was not stationary and formally and publicly cleared Galileo of any wrongdoing. So my guess is that IF they’ll ever reverse their stance on homosexuality, it will be around 2360…
Struggling with same sex attraction, forsooth. Any gay person who really does have problems related to accepting his/her sexuality should run a mile from anyone using language of that kind. It is the standard jargon of anti-gay spiritual abuse.
This same spokesperson should withdraw and apologise for claiming that gay people were more disease ridden that others. All based on dicredited research
The reason why the church has failed to “support” people who are LGBT is because gay conversion ‘therapy’ is borderline illegal.
What about people with same-sex attraction that don’t struggle with it?
They [we] generally have little to do with the Catholic church.
The only ones struggling with it are people like Kearney I suspect.
He just doesn’t get it does he ? HE and every other head- up- their- own arse god botherer are the problem . His blind delusion that gays are poor pitiful sinners needing his patronising “help” in the same way as alcoholics and druggies is not acceptable. I could say the same about his sky fairy delusion. I earnestly hope some drag queen with fists like meat mallets drums some respect into him.
Oh and by the way Phyllis Tagliatelli aka the archbishop of paisley has NEVER apologised for his remarks
I suspect it’s Kearney who is struggling with his own same-sex attraction. The little twerp’s face screams it. We know O’Brien was struggling with it don’t we? His cult couldn’t even help him either. Raging homophobes give themselves away, protesting far too much and obsessing over the sex lives of gay men to the exclusion of their own. All along, they’re indulging in the very thing they rant against.
I am thinking of starting a society to cure people of their religious tendencies…anyone wants to help??? :-D
I’m in the opposite predicament and I wonder if Peter Kearney can help me with it. I’m struggling with involuntary feelings of physical revulsion at the very sight of Cardinal O’Brien.
It seems to me the only ones “struggling” with homosexuality are those who peddle hatred and even violence against homsexuals, egged on by religions of every hue.
This is how clueless they are. This guy compares being gay to drug or alcohol addiction or homelessness. I mean…
“If you’ve got a drug, or alcohol problem, or homelessness, then we seem to be able to step in and offer you support, help and options. But when it comes to human sexuality, it just isn’t there at the moment. And that’s unfortunate.”
This is when they are trying to reach out and look engaged with the real world!
I’m irritated with myself for even bothering to comment on the remarks of somebody who is part of the hierarchy of a religious institution. Even if you believe in a god, it is striking that churches are human institutions with all the horrors that go with that.