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London: Anti-gay marriage public meeting at Tooting Mosque in response to Muslim MPs support for equal marriage

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  1. Fortunately, this isn’t a Muslim country or, indeed, any form of Theocracy. If you don’t like gay marriage because of your faith, then deal with it and find something more productive to do with your time. Why are so many people in this world obsessed with trying to destroy other people’s happiness? They need to get out more, or alternatively, get out full stop.

    1. yes they should get out if they don’t like it

    2. Britain is not a muslim country quite yet – but in a few years time we’ll all be running for the hills and seeking asylum in the few remaining non-muslim countries

      1. BlokeToys 8 Mar 2013, 9:12pm

        I think you’ve been reading the Daily Mail far too much. The UK is becoming increasingly secular, not Islamic.
        The Church of England, Christianity and Catholicism are all on the decline in the UK too.

        The UK will never become an Islamic nation. It’s not going to happen. Those who are Muslim are also increasingly moderate, watering down the rules and becoming far more modern and respectful of others than their parents were.

        I’ve known about ten Muslim people in my life, all of them were born here or came here at a very young age, all of them drink, some of them attend Mosque occasionally, but they are nothing like their parents.

        That in itself is enough evidence than Islam will never have enough power in this country to gain a religious dominance.

        1. Good comments – thank you

        2. BlokeToys, my experience differs from yours. I have taught in several UK universities and many of my students have been Muslim. I have had as many as five completely blacked-up women in classroom, each one very fearful of mixing with non-Muslims, each one very fearful of what the male Muslim students might think of her behaviour. As for them drinking alcohol and being a part of normal student life: NO WAY. Most of them head for the Prayer Room if they are on campus during one of the five-times-a-day brainwash sessions. And in the evenings, they’re back in their lodgings, always staying in the company of other Muslims. Rather like extreme Xian students, they spend their evenings do “wholesome things”, like playing cards, playing boardgames, and drinking tea! On another thread recently I detailed how all of these Muslims students effectively “spy” on each other and keep each other “in order”. The errant Muslim is an exception. You won’t find many in the gay bars of Soho tonight!

          1. roderious 9 Mar 2013, 9:04am

            Actually both BlokeToys and Eddy could be correct, are the muslims that BlokeToys refers to Students? as with any other group students are not representative of the wider population and have always been attracted to political extremins. Just look atthe student wings of the SWP and the Evangelical Alliance. In the real world people have to be more moderate.

            My concern is that students will go on to become graduates and will excersie power disproportionate to their numbers.

          2. ...rational thinker 9 Mar 2013, 10:26am

            Five “blacked up” Muslim women out of a UK population of nearly 70 million people is hardly the Muslims taking over the country. Get a grip and stop the hatemongering and scaremongering. EDF, UKIP and BNP are writ large in your comments. These are the sort of comments that were reserved for the Irish over the last 50 years when all Irish were classed as rabid Catholic terrorists during the “Troubles”, and were refused service in shops etc and even falsely imprisoned for crimes they never committed re the Birmingham Six and Guilford Four. .This is also the sort of rhetoric that ushered in the vile fascist war of the last century that killed millions of innocent people I would safely bet that this Tooting meeting will be a few hotheads with too much time on their hands and will hardly be a “Bolshevik” revolution in the making. It’s Tooting for phuck sake…..

          3. :-) :-) :-) You claim for yourself the pseudonym “rational thinker” but you have demonstrated a severe deficiency of rational thought in your opening line, in which you have implied, astoundingly, that in the UK’s entire population of just under 70 million people there are only five Muslim women who go around blacked-up, except for eyes and hands!

            You are far from being a “rational thinker”!

            I had half a dozen such women in every one of my many different classes! Furthermore, the many other classes and departments in the same institution had their own such women, forced to wear black by fathers and brothers. And I’m thinking of just one particular institution, and in only one UK city!

            I’d wager you’ve never travelled through one of the Muslim “ghettos” of Bradford or Birmingham!

            Perhaps you ought to get out more?

          4. ‘… I have had as many as five completely blacked-up women in classroom, each one very fearful of mixing with non-Muslims, each one very fearful of what the male Muslim students might think of her behaviour…’

            and you know that because they told you about their fears???

          5. Kane, yes, I do know that because, yes, some of them did tell me of their fears. Clue: a good teacher, particularly in literature, draws out, and draws upon, his or her students personal values. Example: one of my students had a block with written expression, so I counselled her sufficiently for her to move that block, as a consequence of which she produced a ten-page account of how her father was nightly raping her sister!

            (And, yes, I did immediately discuss this with the university’s welfare department!)

            Lesson: there is one hell of a lot going on in this country that a lot of people don’t know about, and prefer not to know about, even though, for example, there are regularly trials exposing the antics of Muslim men who prey upon others, preferably vulnerable young white girls, if they can manage it. Fact. Read the papers. See the current Oxford Mail. See also recent Oldham and Rochdale newspapers.

          6. well, they are not that fearful after all if they spoke to you but my suspicion is that you assumed rather then been spoken to, i mean why speak to you, what difference will that make to their future situation, how would you eradicate their fears? and you are exaggerating the issue, these days lots of young muslim females choose to wear the clothing you described in order to manifest their cultural or/and religious identity

          7. ...rational thinker 9 Mar 2013, 9:24pm

            Unfortunately for you I don’t debate with fascists, so your simplistic and juvenile comment will have to go unanswered…..

        3. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 2:16pm

          You’re being extremely naive.

          It’s Islam’s stated intent to spread its doctrines and tenets throughout the West.

          Muslims have already colonised vast areas of the UK, and in some cases are the predominant creed (Bethnal Green, Bradford, etc):- witness the recent You Tube videos depicting Moslem “vigilantes” imposing Sharia Law in such areas.

          It is only when self-imposed apartheid/ghettoisation – dishonestly sold as multiculturalism – reaches such levels that radical elements feel empowered enough to ostracise and marginalise the indigenous populace that still remain.

          It’s a fact that the areas cited above also suffer the highest levels of unemployment and dependency on the welfare system, so we are effectively funding our growing impression via our taxes!

          The Muslim communities must be seen to deter their youth from radicalism:- they have money to build mosques, why not youth clubs and playing fields too where their disaffected youth can harness their energy positively?

          1. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 7:20pm

            Did I say “impression” instead of “oppression”?

            Darned spell checker!

          2. ...rational thinker 9 Mar 2013, 9:20pm

            Samuel B
            ” It’s Islam’s stated intent to spread its doctrines and tenets throughout the West.”
            So it is just like xtianity then. Everyone of your points about Islam could be applied to just about any religion but especially christianity…. All religion is evil and Vile and must be eradicated…

          3. That was then and this is now, …irrational thinker:- playing the tired old PC yarn of comparing apples to oranges is so passé, nobody falls for that old trick anymore don’tcha know?! :)

      2. They’ll be the ones seeking asylum in some of the few religious countries left.

        1. What do you mean, Elena? You do know, don’t you, that Catholicism, Christian Evangelism, and Islam are all mushrooming in South America, Africa, and parts of Asia? Religious countries aren’t lessening in number or ferocity of belief.

          1. In the entire world, almost without exception, it is the post(christian) countries where gay rights are blossoming. If islam had managed to conquer Europe as it tried to do incessantly between 700 and 1700, then we could expect to be hanging from cranes rather than reading a gay news website.

            Look at the map of states and how they voted on the issue of stopping violence against gay people. Most hindus and ex-communist states abstained; christian/ex-christian countries vote against the violence. Almost without exception, the countries that voted FOR violence against gay people were muslim countries.


            Joe, that’s a very helpful map. Thank you.

            And it’s helped me perceive something very important with regard to this thread.

            All the green countries on that map (the countries that opposed the UN declaration on sexual orientation and gender identity) are Arab, Asian, or African.

            Now, Muslims are almost invariably Arab, Asian, or African. But Xians can be Arab, Asian, African, North American, South American, or European.

            PinkNews readers have been rightfully ferocious in their condemnation of Xians, but they clearly don’t like to condemn Muslims.

            And the reason for that is that in the case of Muslims people confuse religion with race. People are fearful of condemning Arabs, Asians, and Africans.

            I condemn all homophobes, be they Xian, Jewish, Muslim or what-have-you, EVEN IF they’re black or brown.

          3. “Almost without exception, the countries that voted FOR violence against gay people were muslim countries.

            A very odd interpretation considering that only twenty (twenty-one if one counts Lebanon, which has fifteen official religions) of the fifty-seven (later fifty-four) nations sponsoring the anti-LGBT statement were Islamic. I fail to see how less than 40% equates to “almost without exception”.

          4. “only twenty.. nations sponsoring the anti-LGBT statement were Islamic”.

            Notice the leftist apologist for islamo-fascism.

            Go and look at the list of countries. Of the 57 anti-gay states in this context, a couple were leftwing (zimbabwe, north korea). A few were insignifcant islands (Fiji, Solmon, St. Lucia). At least 38 of the remainder had significant/majority muslim populations (including Uganda). Islam has been in most of those “civilisations” for over 1000 years. The christians, animists, etc. all have been influenced by islam.

            The map that goes with the wikipedia article shows the connection. Where Islam was able to spread, the states are homophobic. Where countries were predominantly christian (and away from contamination by islam), the states support gay rights.

          5. “Notice the leftist apologist for islamo-fascism.”

            * me stops chortling for a bit, starts again then recovers *

            Ah, you must have been employing some strange usage of the terms ‘muslim countries’ and ‘almost without exception’ that I wasn’t previously aware of.

          6. Incidentally, from the page containing the data you are so desperately attempting to redefine: “Several speakers addressing a conference on the declaration noted that in many countries laws against homosexuality stemmed as much from the British colonial past as from alleged religious or tradition reasons.”

    3. The muslim population of the UK doubles every 10 years. There are muslim academics who argue that the 2011 Census seriously underestimates the muslim population of the UK (they claim that 7% of all those who completed the Census refused to state their religion, and that these are most likely to be muslims). In the 2001 Census, 1 million households did not ever return data (2011 is probably the same)! Thus the UK muslim population could already be above 10% ( in 2006 11% of all meat in the UK was halal; muslims are 13% of the prison population, 20% of young prisoners).

      Even if the UK population is 5% muslim, in 30 years time it will be 40%. As we have seen with areas like Tower Hamlets and Bradford, they are very prone to voting for islamic candidates, completely ignoring traditional parties and policies.

      In 1979, Thatcher governed with 43% of the vote. Young muslims in Britain are 3x more radical than their grandparents.

      1. 1) Labour govt. saying they would scrap the Census after 2011. “About 1.5million households failed to fill in their forms in 2001. ”

        2) Muslim academic says the 2011 Census greatly underestimates muslim population figures (says they are hiding in the 7% of the UK population who would not reveal their religion).

        3) In 2006, 11% of all meat in the UK was halal.

        4) In 2008 muslims were 12% of prison population.

        5) Muslim population of Britian doubles every decade. If muslims are 5% of the population in 2011, they will be 40% by 2040. If the muslim academic in 2) is right, they will be 40% long before 2040.

    4. ...rational thinker 9 Mar 2013, 10:09am

      …or phuck off back to your own dusty hole of a crap country that couldn’t provide you or your kids with a living…..

      1. “…or phuck off back to your own dusty hole of a crap country that couldn’t provide you or your kids with a living…..”

        “rational thinker” is the wrong name for you. “Psychological Screwball” would be more appropriate!

        Elsewhere in this thread you have taken exception to it being stated that young Muslim women are often forced and monitored by their families, and now we find you insulting someone you perceive to be a foreigner!

        Are you on medication? Have you taken it today?

        1. ...rational thinker 9 Mar 2013, 9:55pm

          You must be American or just plain thick.. My comment was meant to be entirely ironic in light of the comments already made on this thread. You are just plain racist.

        2. ...rational thinker 9 Mar 2013, 10:04pm

          You are either American or totally thick as most racists are. My comment was meant to be IRONIC and the fact you missed that marks you out for what you are, Plain Ignorant.

    5. Technically this IS a theocracy isn’t it? Our (nominal) head of state, Elizabeth Windsor, is also the (nominal) head of the Church of England, our (nominally) official state religion.

      As theocracies go it’s fairly gentle though.

      No I don’t have anything better to be doing with my time :-(

    6. ...rational thinker 9 Mar 2013, 9:30pm

      This thread has been hijacked by the vile EDF and BNP trolls and debate is no longer possible. Do not feed the racist trolls.

      1. What a misnomer of an alias you have.

        Last time I checked this was a gay news web site:- just because the PC thought police cannot control and steer consensus on this critical issue that could have serious repercussions for us all in years to come, you resort to smear, invective and innuendo.

        Funny, those are the same intimidatory tactics they teach you on PC training (aka indoctrination) courses to shout down the opposition, stymie and ultimately shut down the debate.

        As I have pointed out elsewhere, your ilk are running around like headless chickens because the issue of Muslims inciting gay hatred is your Achilles Heel since it is one “heart-bleeding” minority who you are trained to perceive as the victim venting its spleen against another (us!).

        Didn’t these courses have a 3-point strategy for dealing with such a conundrum?

        Or to disguise the rank, transparent hypocrisy betrayed by your blatant love-in with Islam while damning Christianity to high Heaven?


        1. Neo-fascists like “rational thinker” have no arguments. So they shout “racist” even when there are plenty of photos of non-white people on EDL demos.

          And even academics at King’s College admit EDL is not a racist organisation. It’s two years ago since such academics were pointing out “while it is predominantly made up of the white working class, there are enough black and non-Muslim Asian attendees”, but the media (and neo-fascists like Kane) continue with their lies about EDL.

          Leftwing, asian, EDL-hating journalists (like Sunny Hundal) complain when they go to an EDL demo and get no racist abuse!

          My boyfriend is asian, and he’s been to EDL demos (and was wearing a rainbow flag on the demos). He got nothing but friendliness, and thanks from the majority of white working-class men for him being so patriotic.

          1. ‘…but the media (and neo-fascists like Kane) continue with their lies about EDL…’

            ‘…My boyfriend is asian, and he’s been to EDL demos (and was wearing a rainbow flag on the demos). He got nothing but friendliness, and thanks from the majority of white working-class men for him being so patriotic…’

            joe stop it, just spilt my coffee from unexpected burst of laughter, twice in a row

          2. Thanks for illuminating me Joe:- clearly it is groups like the EDL who pose the greatest threat to the liberal cultural Marxist agenda that’s trying to destroy the UK from within, hence why they receive such bad press.

            I’ll certainly be doing my own research on this with an open mind as the 3 main parties represent only an illusion of choice, and most people now know they’re following the same blueprint and are willfully destroying our institutions to pave the way for total privatisation to government-linked companies and corporations.

            And it is PC acolytes like Al and Zane – some of whom The Guardian recently exposed as being disinformation shills who are paid from the public purse to lurk on discussion boards like this to engineer a pro-PC liberal consensus – who do the agenda’s bidding.

            Clearly, as debates such as this demonstrate, they’re losing the argument big time as people awaken to truths that were “hidden in plain sight” now bursting to the surface in all directions!

  2. Jesus moran 8 Mar 2013, 7:27pm

    If they don’t like a civilised and more equal country they all should leave the UK and move back to where they came from we gays never wanted to live in theirs so my question why in hell you Muslims came to our countries to interfere in our lives ENOUGH .

    1. Harlequin 9 Mar 2013, 5:12am

      What about all of the Muslims who “come from” the UK?

      1. If they don’t like living in a tolerant, secular multicultural country, they can leave. Mecca was multicultural before the Profit of 20% invented islam (there were christians and pagan arabs living there; now no christian or pagan is allowed into Mecca).

        The koran tells muslims “do not take the christians and jews as your friends.” Islam also insists that muslims should NOT live in a non-muslim country if there is a muslim state where they can live. Muslims are only supposed to be in non-islamic countries as conquerors.

        So, those muslims who complain that the UK is not islamic enough should be consistent. They should move to Pakistan, Somalia or Saudi Arabia.

        Muslims don’t “come from” Britain. Islam was imported. It spent 1300 years trying to conquer europe. If it wasn’t for the Crusades and other such battles, islam would have succeeded. It took the Spanish & Portuguese 700 years to kick the invading muslim empire out of their land.

        1. One could equally argue that no Christians or Jews come from Britain. If everyone were to be sent back to where they “came from” most of the world would be terribly empty and parts of the Middle East horribly overcrowded (presumably by the dissected bodies of people who “come from” different places by birth, religion, culture, genetics, prosthetics and general systems of thought). After all, those who believe in logic must surely “come from” such places as Greece.

          Yay for the Crusades, though. They really saved us all ;)

      2. In that case, they need to do what I demand the Christian crazies do too, and STFU and pay attention to their own lives.

        I personally don’t care where someone comes from or what they believe in. I only have an issue when people try to control others and refuse them the same rights they expect.

  3. Muslims are the possibly the most brainwashed stupid people on planet Earth. Particularly muslim women, and especially the ones who think it is a good idea to cover their entire bodies in bin bags and be treated like second class citizens. And gay muslims, poor things, I feel sorry for them.

    1. “Muslims are the possibly the most brainwashed stupid people on planet Earth”

      Don’t let your bigotry get in the way of reading the story… Did any Muslim MPs vote against equal marriage? And who has championed LGBT equality in the House of Lords for the last 15 years – none other than Lord Alli a gay muslim.

      1. And which governments execute, imprison and torture LGBT people? ANSWER – middle eastern islamic governments. Don’t let your stupidity get in the way of looking at reality objectively and being honest about the disgusting way in which islam treats LGBT people.

        The real bigots are muslims – that is what the story is about – bigoted muslims.

        1. the topic is about this country, not some brutal dictatorship in middle east supported by western states

          1. And, furthermore, certain Muslim MPs’ votes on a certain issue must not be automatically taken as an indication of the feelings of the Muslim community in general. Matters are far more complex than that.

          2. Yeah thats it, blame western states for the stupid religion that rules the middle eastern dictatorships. And yes you’re right the topic is about this country – but unfortunately we are having to deal with an imported bigoted religion from the middle east.

        2. Answer – Some Middle-Eastern Islamic governments and, at the very least, over forty other governments (not including Islamic governments outside the Middle East or non-Islamic governments of countries with huge majorities of Muslim citizens), most of them on the basis of laws left over from European invaders. Twenty-nine of those, by my count (yes, I’ve just spent some hours making and double-checking a list) are ex-members of our great British Empire including, I’m sad to write, Belize, which offers me automatic citizenship via my native grandfather but could bar me entry due to my sexuality and jail me on the same grounds if I got into the country.

          The real bigots are humans, both in the story and in these comments.

    2. In all fairness, it’s all organized religion, not Just Islam.

      They all try to meddle in governance of the nation to dictate their beliefs. Catholicism, CofE, Islam, $cientology… they are all dictatorial groups desperately trying to inflict their opinions and beliefs onto others through the lobbying of government, manipulation of eduction, so-called “charitable” causes… they all have one thing in common, a delusion that they have the right to control others – much the same as any dictator or despot throughout history.

      Some do it through bullets and bombs, others do it through law and social and government manipulation.

  4. Robert (Kettering) 8 Mar 2013, 7:41pm

    Such a nasty homophobic religion. The simple answer for the folk attending the meeting is to pack their bags and head for somewhere like Saudi Arabis where I’m sure they’ll be welcomed with open arms.

    I find the sight of radicalised Muslim women running about covered from head to toe offensive but I’m adult enough to live with it!

    1. “The simple answer for the folk attending the meeting is to pack their bags and head for somewhere like Saudi Arabis where I’m sure they’ll be welcomed with open arms.”

      …but much less (if anything) in the way of benefits. So instead they come/stay here, take advantage of the things about a modern democracy that they like having for themselves (e.g. benefits, free speech), try to get rid of the things they don’t like (e.g. acceptance of gay people, free speech for anyone who opposes them), and of course immediately cry “Racist!” if anyone questions any of that.

      And they’re succeeding, and breeding like anything here. Many are quite open about despsing the “kaffir” and wanting to take over their lands. After the heroics of WW2, we are now welcoming the next wave of hateful oppressive homophobic would-be conquerors with open arms. We desperately need to respond more robustly and stop being scared of the race card being played.

      1. AOK, you’re right about them succeeding and “breeding like anything here”.

        I presume that by “breeding” you mean multiplying, having large families, increasing in numbers. And that’s true. But what I find alarming is the way they are turning every part of this country into their “breeding grounds”. I sincerely believe that most non-Muslim people have little idea of what is actually going on. There’s a website that tracks all the mosques in the UK. It’s worth looking at. It records even those “mosques” which are nothing more than a large room over the corner shop: big enough for 30 men to congregate 5 times a day to put their foreheads to the ground facing Mecca. Even little towns in Herefordshire and Shropshire have such “mosques”.

    2. ...Paddyswurds 9 Mar 2013, 10:54am

      Robert (Kettering)
      All religions fall under that description. It is not that long ago that xtian women had to cover their heads when they went out or went to church. In church the men had to sit on one side of the aisle and women on the other. In Catholicism when a woman had had a baby she had go prostrate herself in front a priest (who was probably phucking her older children) to be “churched” , a vile ritual which claimed to cleanse her because she had been carnal in order to get pregnant in the first place Xtians are still as women hating and homophobic as they ever were. and we should not forget the Crusades and the Inquisition. We will never be truly free until religion is totally eradicated from the mind of Mankind. It is a hate filled and dangerous ideology in whatever guise it raises its ugly head and one day our descendants will look back in dismay at the ignorance that allowed it to flourish and cause so much misery on this planet Earth. We must ALL work tireles

      1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Mar 2013, 11:03am

        …sly to eradicate it. Education is the key as is ably demonstrated by those countries where good education is important. Once people become educated they begin to question the obvious con that religion is. That this is true is when the Taliban blow up schools and force children into these vile Madras or so called “faith schools” This takes the form of “home schooling” in the United States where educational standards in so called Red states is on par with places like Afghanistan and Pakistan and fundi religion is on the rise. It is time to outlaw “home schooling” bothe here and wherever else it is done.

        1. “Once people become educated they begin to question the obvious con that religion is.”

          Rubbish. Young muslims in universities in Britain are educated. Yet they keep on inviting preachers who say “kill homosexuals”, “kill jews”, to campus.

          Surveys show that the muslims at British universities are MORE RADICAL than muslims who are not at university.

          Your dopey religious faith in “education” proves nothing. The only way to educate muslims is to get them to face up to the fact that they worship a genocidal monster, who destroyed the multiculturalism of 7th century Arabia.

    3. ...rational thinker 9 Mar 2013, 10:29pm

      all the Abrahamic religions are homophobic

    4. ...rational thinker 9 Mar 2013, 10:44pm

      Robert (k)
      All the Abrahamic religions are homophobic.

  5. Many Muslims opposed to gay marriage would also like to live in an Islamist state with enforced Shariah law.
    I wonder how many of them would dare to organise a public meeting against government policy in such a state? And what would happen to them if they did?

    1. BlokeToys 8 Mar 2013, 9:07pm

      Yes, but notice they don’t want to live in any one of the existing Islamic states?
      It’s because they all want to be the dictator themselves, and in the UK they have the freedom to chase that position and the protection to say almost anything. In a REAL Islamic state they would be imprisoned or killed the moment they became a competitor to whichever insane religious leader is currently in power.

      Once again, religion is just a way for the weak to become powerful over others.

      1. … and\or a way for the powerful to keep the weak humble.. :\

      2. Very good point, BlokesToys:- in coming to the UK and taking advantage of our generous welfare system and silently enabling their radical element to incite hatred against us and abuse our children and customs, the oppressed become the oppressors…

    2. At a talk in 2011 at London University, the gay muslim group IMAAN volunteered the information that they support the recreation of the Caliphate and the rule of sharia law. Exactly the same policies as Hizb ut Tahrir. The only difference is that IMAAN think they could persuade the Caliph to stop executing muslim homosexuals. IMAAN seemed to have no concern for the fact that under sharia law slavery is legal and non-muslims are never more than 2nd class citizens.

  6. Robert in S. Kensington 8 Mar 2013, 7:52pm

    MP Sadiq Khan must report this to the police if he hasn’t already. Issuing death threats is a very serious issue. I hope they find out who it is, arrest the bastard(s) and if foreign born, deported.

  7. “This unique public meeting will address both the impact of gay marriage and what Muslims must do to oppose it.”

    1. It’s not unique, the catholics and CofE have been doing such things for months now.
    2. Muslims “must” do nothing. Whatever comes out of this is not legally binding. It is more a case of what musilms are recommended by their spiritual leaders to do to oppose the elusive “it”.

    I hope someone around the area can secretly attend and make a report of what gets said and done at this meeting.

  8. For several weeks now we have all here been railing against the idiocy of those Xians (using “Xians” being my way of avoiding the name of their deluded “lord”) who think that we are all incarnations of evil, that we are perverts, that we are deviants, on a level with paedophiles. And we have largely forgotten the Muslims who think in exactly the same way.

    So now let us rail against such Muslims, and be strong against them, and give as much support as we can to the few Muslims who are moderate.

    All Xians and all Muslims are deluded. But some of both are highly dangerous as well.

    1. roderious 9 Mar 2013, 9:08am

      But remember this meeting is only happening because most muslim MP’s voted in favour of equal marriage. Most Christian MP’s voted against.

      1. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 2:24pm

        Your point being?

        1. At a guess, that not all Muslims are queer-hating bigots?

          What must I be thinking of? Repeat to myself — generalisations are always correct… generalisations are always correct… generalisations are always correct…

  9. Robert in S. Kensington 8 Mar 2013, 8:08pm

    Now let’s hear from our politicians. Issuing a death threat to an MP hasn’t brought one notable Christian or Jewish leader to condemn it either. Come on Ed Miliband, say something.

    1. Robert, that is a very important observation, if I may say so.

      You’re absolutely right. If a white Xian MP had been issued with a death threat by a Muslim . . . wow! You can imagine the outcry, the thundering there would have been. And rightly so! A democratically-elected person having his life threatened, being threatened with MURDER, actually.

      And so, as you rightly observe, with the shoe on the other foot, there ought to have been a thundering from the newspapers and from all kinds of figures of authority over Mr. Khan being threatened with death by immoderate Muslims.

      By the way, I am very wary of the term “moderate Muslims”. To me a “moderate Muslim” would have to be like a “nominal Xian” to be acceptable. But in my experience practising Muslims participate in five-times-a-day brainwash, and follow the Koran to the letter.

      1. your experience doesn’t add up to very much, then.

    2. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 5:00pm

      Nice sentiment, Robert, but despite the posturing over gay marriage there’s not much love for us among MPs, otherwise they’d have taken a firmer stance against Islamic homophobia by now.

      We’re just being used as a political football to further our corrupt system’s own ends, be it to suppress free speech under the guise of hate laws or being seen to support the trendy cause du jour (i.e. gay marriage).

      Let’s face it, they’ve let unfettered immigration occur to weaken our indigenous identity, thereby making it easier to homogenise the UK into the emerging EU federal super state, which will see the eventual erosion of national borders and the dissolution of sovereign states.

      They knew Islam would further that end by undermining and demoralising the British people by inciting culture wars and fomenting unrest, playing right into the hands of those who’re destabalising and weakening the UK’s infrastructure and rule of law, making us subservient to total rule and control from Brussels.

  10. Hey guys, trying organising protest meetings in Saudi.

    Every phobia apart Islamophobia is ok eh?

    Be proud of your MPs who showed some maturity and voted for equality.

  11. I can’t think of anything more ridiculously self-defeating (the EDL and Harry’s Place will have a field day with it for one) and the insinuation; “how it it will impact your children” has more than a whiff of moral panic to it.

    The MCB were the ones who threw their support behind the ‘Muslims Defending Marriage’ campaign to begin with. A great shame for an organisation that participated in anti-fascist activism.

    1. “A great shame for an organisation that participated in anti-fascist activism.”

      They are not involved in anti-fascist activity. They are now paying for the UAF to be their boot-boys. The MCB tried to take legal action against the BBC because Panorama quoted Mawdudi (supposedly the greatest islamic thinker of the 20th century). Why take legal action? Because the BBC quoted Mawdudi, who proudly boasted that islam is itself fascism.

      The MCB tried to cover that up. If they were in power here, as in Iran or Pakistan, they would be exultant in their fascism.

      Only a fool would fall for the shenanigans of the MCB.

  12. BlokeToys 8 Mar 2013, 9:01pm

    My response to this is… if they don’t like it, there are plenty of other Islamic nations they can move to and call home, where women are slaves, they live in poverty, and they don’t have the right to have public meetings like this.

    Funny how these people want the freedoms they can’t get under their own religious rule in other nations, and yet they still think they have the right to dictate to others.

    This confirms my belief that all oprganized religion comes down to the same thing – people want to victimize and control others, and force their own will on innocent people.

    All of these cults are extremist organizations when they start to “plot” against the people of a nation because they don’t agree with their rights and freedoms. Whether that groups is Christian of Islamic makes no difference to me.
    They should all be on watch lists for preaching intolerance and wanting to force their own religious beliefs onto others.

  13. Let’s not forget, before we go about condemning all Muslims with the same brush, that we are hearing this news because Muslim MPs supported equal marriage in the first place.

    1. Muslims demand tolerance, and when some of them show tolerance themselves it becomes newsworthy. Obviously the irony of this situation escapes you.

      If 99.5% of these people who demand tolerance weren’t openly admitting to being anti-gay, the situation would be amusing.

      1. I don’t care for irony (The newsworthy part wasn’t about their support, it was the reaction of a group towards their support so it’s not exactly ironic). What matters is that we are actively tarring all people with the same brush. I’ve known a few Muslims in my time who are perfectly accepting of gays. One of my Muslim friends spoke in favour of same-sex marriage in a debate in school on the matter.

        What I find deeply dissapointing is that many gays demand tolerance and as we can see from some posters on pink news (and other sites) are intolerant of religious people and paint all religious people with the same brush of bigotry when it simply isn’t the case. This kind of behaviour only alienates groups, it does nothing whatsoever to solve the problem.

        1. Evan, gotta disagree with you there about being against religions. If we all campaign hard enough against all religions, and if we demand a secular state in which religious people keep their fairytales to themselves, then we will succeed in producing a society where lesbians and gays might be able to BEGIN to walk down the High Street hand in hand.

          We certainly don’t do that at the moment, do we! And for a very good reason. We don’t want to be knifed like the few who dare to do it in the centre of London!

          1. I have done so in Central London many dozens, if not hundreds of times, and often see others doing the same. Shockingly, neither I nor almost any of those other people have ever been stabbed.

        2. Every Muslim who refuses to speak out to denounce their out of control radical element conspires in and enables such behaviour:- their silence, therefore, renders them complicit in the sins of their brethren.

          What part of that simple equation do you not understand, Evan?

          1. That if we don’t speak out against the bigots in these comments we must somehow agree with their views?

  14. The meeting won’t make any difference whatsoever. It is not a threat to us. Those attending can either choose to agree or not agree with the Muslim MPs supporting equality, but there is an overwhelming majority of MPs and the general population in support of equality. If a statement is released from the meeting opposing the legislation it won’t make any difference. If any hate speech arises during the meeting or because of the meeting then it is up to the police to act.

    1. GulliverUK 8 Mar 2013, 9:28pm

      Absolutely. It’s a small local meeting relating to their own MP. Every MPs vote on this is being heavily scrutinised – as perhaps all votes should be. All the local papers up and down the country are talking about how their MP voted, whether it is reflective of local opinion.

      No protests or petitions or meetings are going to make any difference – marriage equality is coming. However, …. there are those on the committee who will try to damage the bill with all sorts of exceptions and opt-outs … they are the biggest threat of all, those within.

      1. Yes you’re right. The threat is within Parliament – those MPs trying to alter the legislation beyond recognition at Committee stage and the House of Lords. It is Christians who are genuinely trying to destroy it, not Muslims.

  15. In the rush to denigrate all Muslims for being homophobic, it’s worth reminding people that the majority of Muslim MPs in the House of Commons voted for marriage equality.
    Those Muslims are our allies. They are British people who believe in equality and are prepared to face down people of their own faith who disagree with them.
    In the same way I disagre with painting all Catholics or Anglicans with a broad brush because of how the leaders of those religions behave, so I will defend all those Muslims who either don’t give a stuff one way or another about same-sex marriage, or actively support it.
    And can we just stop all this ‘send-’em-back’ nonsense? In all the comments made on the Catholic CHurch’s (delightful) embarrassment, I didn’t read a single post stating: ‘Send-’em-back to Rome.’
    If we want equality, then we must treat others equally.

    1. dazzer, may I suggest we do more than just “defend all those Muslims who either don’t give a stuff one way or another about same-sex marriage, or actively support it”? May I suggest we champion them, make a real effort to let them know of our appreciation and approval.

      This is important, because, sadly, amongst Muslims in general they are far and few between. They need our support.

      1. Yes Eddy, the Muslim MPs supporting the legislation should be treated as champions of equality.

    2. The muslims who voted for same-sex marriage were in no greater proportion than the non-muslim MPs. Don’t make them out to be some champions of gay rights.

      1. roderious 9 Mar 2013, 9:15am

        If they voted for equality than they are champions of equality.

        I notice you compare Muslim MP’s to non-muslim MP’s, it would be more interesting to compare the voting records of Muslim MP’s to Chriatian MP’s, most of whom campaigned and voted against equality.

      2. You’re pretty well near right there, Joe. Apparently FIVE voted FOR, while THREE chose not to cast a vote!

        Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green & Bow),
        Shabana Mahmood (Birmingham Ladywood),
        Sadiq Khan (Tooting),
        Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central)
        Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove)

        Didn’t vote:
        Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham Perry Barr)
        Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon)
        Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East),

        Worrying discussions on Muslim forums. Not a word in favour from Muslims.

        “Those who abstained are even worse. Whether you sell out or not, at least have a spine you sniveling moribund snakes.”

        “The solution has always been the same – disassociate from Kafir society instead of trying to integrate into it.”

        1. What proportion of Muslim MPs, incidentally, voted against compared to Christians?

          1. What was wrong with my question?

          2. What was wrong with my question asking what was wrong with my question?

  16. GulliverUK 8 Mar 2013, 9:48pm

    I think we should be a bit more specific when speaking out against people. I think we’re all talking about homophobes who happen to follow Islam – we condemn their irrational hatred just like we condemn homophobes who are Christian.

    But we certainly don’t condemn all Christians – because the majority support equality. And we don’t condemn all Muslims given that …

    “almost half say they are proud of the country’s stance on gay rights.”

    1. And, Gulliver, that poll did not sit happily alongside the Gallup poll of just two years earlier, did it, that found that not one of the 1,001 British Muslims interviewed believed homosexual acts were morally acceptable.

      1. GulliverUK 8 Mar 2013, 10:10pm

        Was anyone stupid enough to believe that 1,001 individuals answered a question, which has historically been divisive, in the same way, giving a poll result of 100% ? I know the EDL, BNP and NF would have enjoyed the result – perhaps even colluded to create it – but real people, out there in the real world, working alongside actual real followers of Islam, wouldn’t have believed it for a minute.

        I know that you wouldn’t have been fooled by it. :)

        1. The “historically divisive” question seems pretty straightforward to me. The response came back loud and clear – NOT ONE Muslim questioned said that homosexuality was morally acceptable. I suggest that the question in the other poll “I am proud of how Britain treats gay people.” is, though mildly comforting, inconclusive. Are they simply proud that Britain doesn’t kill Gays? Or are they proud that Equal Marriage will soon be with us? Do they perceive that gays are disadvantaged here and approve of it?
          I would love to think that there has been a positive shift in Muslim opinion since 2009 but I am dubious. Their text is clear on the subject and not open to interpretation. Even the most liberal imam is unable to argue that Islam tolerates homosexual “acts”.

          1. GulliverUK 9 Mar 2013, 9:50am

            I’m concerned about people who are willing to believe that in 1,001 individuals, on such a divisive question, that they are willing to believe there was total unanimity. It’s so improbable unless the question did relate to what they believed the Koran implied.

            There are liberal Imams who do believe same-sex relationships are ok, just like there are Jewish scholars, not all of them liberal either, who also believe that. I’ve come across plenty of articles by them.

            If you want to believe that 2009 wasn’t rigged / biased because of the question it asked – that’s your business. I know real Muslims who don’t agree with that. AND, you are assuming, somehow, that there are no gay Muslims, and there weren’t any in that survey.

            There are lots of projects and initiatives by people of faith to create welcoming spaces for LGBT, and to bridge the divide between people with opposing views and the LGBT community. We should be supporting those.

          2. Gulliver, I’m flummoxed as to why you have a need not to accept the result of that Gallup poll which demonstrated what many of us have known for decades, that Islam is extremely hostile to homosexuality.

            If the editors and journalists of The Guardian newspaper are prepared to accept the findings of Gallup polls, then I am too. If the results of this particular Gallup poll are reported by no less than Riazat Butt, the Guardian’s former religious affairs correspondent, and presenter of The Guardian’s Muslim podcast, then I am too.


          3. Eddy why selectively produce old statistic when there is a new one? to prove your biased point of view?


          4. Kane you asked “why selectively produce old statistic when there is a new one?”

            Your use of the adverb “selectively” is inappropriate. Gulliver produced the result of one poll. It would be “selective” and irrational to choose to ignore the result of another poll that produced a very different finding, wouldn’t it.

          5. Eddy, what is the point of producing old statistic as a counter argument to the latest one produced by Gulliver

    2. Again I agree! Homophobes are homophobes, whatever their religion or political belief. It could be said that Muslim homophobes have a tendency towards violent opposition against us, yet the Archbishop of Canterbury’s view that homosexuality is wrong, not just equal marriage, feeds the violent opposition against us by Anglicans in Africa. We know however, that there are both Christian and Muslim MPs supporting equality.

    3. That poll was roundly criticised even by the leftist enablers of islamic fascism.

      The question was a) compleltely ambiguous, b) the sample size was minuscule. See how these anti-EDL apologists dissect that ludicrous “survey”.

    4. Agree to a point, however I see vastly more Homophobia in Islam to a point of near total.

      Theres only one LGBT friendly Mosque & thats only opened recently in Paris….I know of several Gay friendly Christian Churches near me in Lambeth & one Synagogue too, now Mosques though…

      1. Yes, Daniel, quite right, and that LGBT-friendly mosque in Paris was planned only as a result of the daring of a gay Muslim man and the last I heard that “mosque”, which I understand to be no more than an upper room, was in danger of being torched by angry non-gay Muslims, furious that Islam should be besmirched by such a thing as a “gay mosque”!

      2. And where is that gay friendly mosque in Paris? Inside a buddhist centre!

        And what are muslims doing to buddhist monks and school teacers in southern Thailand? Exterminating them. 5,300 people in southern Thailand have been massacred by muslims in the last 10 years. That is almost twice the number who died in the WTC. 85% of all buddhists in the 3 southern provinces of Thailand have moved north to avoid being victims of jihad.

        There is no tolerance in islam. Unlike in buddhism and christianity, where the calendar dates from the birth of the founder of the religion, in islam the calendar does not start with the birth of Mo. It does not start from when the Profit of 20% first started to hear voices from Allah.

        The islamic calendar dates from the day when Allah told the Profit of 20% to kill non-muslims.

    5. I assume you’re a member of the AFL, your whiny, Islam apologist tone gives you away

  17. Nothing to worry about – because, of course, there will be a counter demonstration by all the moderate Muslims who abhor homophobia. They will drown out the rantings of the murderous few who give Islam a bad name. The moderate majority of Muslims we hear so much about will come to the rescue by condemning bigotry against their Gay brothers and sisters.
    Yeah, right.

    1. Jerry Joe 9 Mar 2013, 9:29am

      We know the word moderate muslim is an oxymoron.A Gallup poll showed that british muslims have no sort tolerance fo LGBT.Out of the 500 asked Muslims NO ONE belived that homosexuality was acceptable.Those MP who voted for equality are even if they dont believe it themselves anything but Muslims

  18. This might sound racist, though it’s not meant to be, I’d say the same thing to anyone moving to a nation which has different values to their own, in fact I’d go as far as to say it to an indigenous Brit.
    If you don’t like our laws, rules, culture and custom. You’re free to leave anytime you feel like.
    The same equality these liberals are pushing for, are the same principles that allow muslims to be treated as equals in a majority non-islamic nation.
    If I *chose* to live in Saudi Arabia where homosexuality wasn’t tolerated, that would have been my choice, and I’d be free to leave. I wouldn’t try to impose my views on their culture.
    I’d appreciate the same courtesy.
    If you don’t like how our tolerant society functions, you’re free to leave. And I encourage you to do so.

    1. I’m not sure they were trying to ‘impose’ their views on anyone’s ‘culture’. The last time I checked, we had enshrined in law the right of free speech and free association. Or am I wrong?

      1. yes, but NOT Public bigoted hatred – these men (and let’s remember these misogynists hate their own women as much as us) oppose anyone who doesn’t agree with their outdated superstitions and backward beliefs.

        1. It seems that many on this board are happy expressing a plethora of bigoted hate speech – just as long as it directed AGAINST Muslims. Why should that be tolerated, then?

          1. Hello Al. It seems to me you could have benefited all of us enormously by attending the meeting last night in Tooting, making notes, and reporting all the the lovely things that were said about us there by the fine gentlemen assembled. And in the course of so doing, I have more than just a sneaking feeling you would have been shocked and angered and would have returned here with a very different point of view from the one you’ve expressed above.

            Minorities who ignore deliberate assemblies of people who believe they have a god-given right to do them harm, do so at their peril, as history has shown. Wherever persecution has occurred some of the persecuted always refused to acknowledge it. Go to the archives in the Channel Islands and read the polite and cordial letters of Jewish shopkeepers to the N*zi authorities. They thought they could handle the N*zis, maybe even change their attitudes. How wrong they were. How foolish they were.

          2. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 3:23pm

            Al, why not simply change your name to Mohammed Al and be done with it?

          3. Al, the consensus on here is that one form bigotry excuses another one

          4. All Kane has done on this thread is snipe, rather than put forward cogent argument.

          5. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 9:40pm

            That is what PC shills and trolls generally do to enforce their pernicious agendas, George.

      2. “we had enshrined in law the right of free speech and free association.”

        You are wrong. You can be given a criminal conviction for barking at a dog, or saying to a police man “your horse looks gay”.

        The government has held people in prison for 2 months for flying the Israeli flag. People have been given 10 year bans from attending demonstrations. Where is the freedom of speech and freedom of association? Once CRASBOs were used against EDL, they were then extended to leftwing demonstrators.

        All these measures were introduced to protect islam from criticism.

        1. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 9:59pm

          You have just succinctly summed up exactly why world governments are posturing and pandering to their gay communities at this time, Joe.

          The more ardent lobbyists among us have gifted authoritarian parliamentarians with the ammunition they need to push through these oppressive, control-freakery laws.

          Yet our radical fringe continue to push for “hate” laws to made ever tighter to the point where we shall soon wake up and realise, too late, how we played a part in out own oppression in participating in the evolution of the fully-armed and armoured police state.

          Only it’ll be one vast federal police super state under the direct control and orders of Brussels, not Whitehall.

          It is already in full view in the US, with paramilitary SWAT teams openly performing emergency martial law drills among the citizens.

          And when that day arrives in the UK/EU, we will clearly see how any pretence to supporting and respecting our rights are conveniently forgotten and trampled upon…

  19. Liam the God 9 Mar 2013, 1:05am

    “How Will Gay Marriage Affect Your Children?”. Well, it won’t, unless they’re actually gay.
    That was a short explanation, eh?

  20. Some rather unpleasant, far right comments here, which is shameful.

    1. Harlequin 9 Mar 2013, 5:25am

      Indeed :(

      1. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 8:38am

        No room for your far left splutters of mock indignation here, gentlemen.

        Now move along. :)

        1. Well I’ve not been impressed by these shallow bigotted comments on this comments board,

          Why should I feel these writers are a part of my community, I find them deeply unattractive souls.

        2. I can assure you my indignation isn’t ‘mock’. I find most of the crap written here to be distasteful in the extreme. And I’d hardly describe myself as ‘far’ left. Helps to get your facts straight.

          Now move along. :-D

          1. samuel b with his far right sentiments probably feels nostalgic about 1930′ germany

          2. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 3:27pm

            As a descendent of Polish Jews who narrowly escaped the ovens, I will refrain from taking your riposte literally, Kane.

          3. oh that old chestnut, somehow escaping ww2 atrocities didnt stop israelis from engaging in far right politics like israeli -gaza strip wall, dont know why but ww2 warsaw ghetto springs to mind

          4. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 3:51pm

            And I also happen to support the Palestinian cause and abhor the atrocities perpetuated by the Israeli government.

            Yes, that old chestnut again.

            Best to stop digging your hole, methinks..

          5. no way, you such mother theresa but on a serious note dont make me laugh

          6. Sam B, ignore Kane. He’s clearly a troll.

          7. george i have clearly missed your cogent argument on the topic, please feel free to point me to one, speaking of trolling lol

    2. GingerlyColors 9 Mar 2013, 10:00am

      But I don’t like the far right views coming from certain Muslims either.

      1. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 1:54pm

        Indeed, gingerly.

        Intolerant far right Moslems are the heart-bleeding, PC-programmed liberal left’s Achilles Heel:- the elephant in the room that can no longer be hidden from plain sight.

        Now they are running around like headless chickens, because they can’t be seen to be hand-wringing for both factions without being seen to be the blatant hypocrites and perverters of truth and freedom of speech they really are.

        1. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 1:58pm

          “Both factions” as in gay and Muslim.

          (Calling Ben:- This board would really benefit by having a post-edit facility!) :)

          1. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 3:30pm

            In retrospect perhaps “minorities” would have been a more appropriate word than “factions”.

            An edit facility and pronto, pur-leeeaaase!

    3. Jock S. Trap 9 Mar 2013, 11:40am

      Well at least you can make comments hear as we see from some pretty homophobic people. Unlike of course religious sites where comments are either not allowed or heavily censored!

      1. Why should you feel an impulse to both write such ill thought out arguments and then vote up the comments like they are something positive?

        This is a very wrong feeling to act upon do you not see that?

        1. Jock S. Trap 9 Mar 2013, 4:22pm

          Tell you what… try doing some research first before your typical bigoted assumptions.

          Religious websites tend to be more like dictatorship sites but them isn’t that what we’ve seen with religion? People being told what to do, what to say!

      2. GulliverUK 9 Mar 2013, 7:59pm

        “Unlike of course religious sites where comments are either not allowed or heavily censored!”

        Ooooh, Jock S. Trap — a challenge ! So, we have to be charming, nice, funny, witty, eloquent, but as long as our facts can be backed up, we should be post on one of these religious sites ? I’ve never been before …. AHHHHH, actually I lie, I have, I’m banned from the Catholic Herald !!! I’m fairly sure I was polite there, but they didn’t like the “truth” bit :(

        Ho hum. :)

    4. Perhaps you should go to the meeting, the bigoted comments by the muslims there will be far worse. What’s your view of the anti-gay meeting at the mosque?

  21. Har Davids 9 Mar 2013, 8:14am

    The impact of gay marriage is that it enables gay people who want to get married to do just that. Muslims will not be required to get into equal marriage. They can, if they want to, show their displeasure by getting out of the country, of course. Plenty of homophobic countries to choose from.

    1. GulliverUK 9 Mar 2013, 9:36am

      As much as it would be a wonderful idea to round up all the homophobes, whoever they are, and export them to other countries — you’d just be moving them to already homophobic countries where the lives of anyone not heterosexual is, in many places, barely tolerable. We wouldn’t want to rid ourselves of homophobes just to make our lives easier when it would cause increased persecution elsewhere.

      We need to allow these people to educate themselves and evolve – that is by far the best option, it helps us and them, and the country. Those who follow religion are fully aware that whatever their personal beliefs we have laws for equality and laws for protection. Most people living here aren’t homophobes anyway – we’re only talking about a small minority – very vocal, agitators, yelling profanities at us, at women, at other faiths, at people within their faiths who aren’t extremist like they are, kicking off about abortion, womens’ place in religion, etc.

      Let’s stay focused ! :D

      1. Har Davids 9 Mar 2013, 1:07pm

        Just wishful thinking, Gulliver.

      2. absolutely spot on Gulliver

  22. GingerlyColors 9 Mar 2013, 9:58am

    Since when has the United Kingdom been a Muslim country?

    1. What a daft comment to make.

      1. it must be first democratic country in the world where less then 10% of population decides nature of the country, following GingerlyColors’ logic one could ask ‘Since when has the United Kingdom been a gay country?’

        1. And at what point did your PC training teach you to put the boot into your own country at every given opportunity and at all costs so as to play your treacherous role in destroying the UK from within, pray tell?

      2. You of course being a qualified expert on daft comments Al, at least where this thread is concerned.

        Not excluding young Kane of course…

        1. samuel b, was that meow?

          1. Exactly.

  23. Jock S. Trap 9 Mar 2013, 10:44am

    Yeah, me thinks these people need to understand what a democracy is.

    The fact that the large majority of MP’s in the Common voted for this bill show democracy.

    Also coming from such a minority religion too!!! They have no right to go against democratic Britain … end of!

  24. Jock S. Trap 9 Mar 2013, 10:54am

    Second point:-

    What impact on children?

    In a week when we hear about forced marriages on children from said religion, the youngest of which is an infact of two years old.

    How does that impact children?

    Difference is we accept all are born the way we are. These particular Muslims are actually abusing children to the extreme, we are not.

  25. GulliverUK 9 Mar 2013, 11:18am

    Let’s make sure this thread isn’t hijacked with highly misleading BNP/EDL rhetoric – because that’s what I’m seeing in some of these posts. Rank stupidity of people saying young Muslims are 3x more radicalised that their parents. It’s complete bull. Young people of all backgrounds are far more liberal and tolerant and accepting that their parents. There are always youth who feel isolated from their peers and lost in society and sieze on anything which gives them a purpose – in the old days they joined the army – now they choose a cushy political army, but it’s a tiny army, who fight with the equally absurd and tiny EDL army.

    Some individuals could be accused of attempting to distort the truth, in the same way that homophobes constantly try to distort the truth about us. People should cite sources to prove what they say is true – then we will know where it’s coming from. If it’s all coming from Stormfront or EDL sources then they can just f–k off.

    1. Don’t agree. I think you just want to bury your head in the sand and think things are lovely when they’re not.

    2. “Rank stupidity of people saying young Muslims are 3x more radicalised that their parents”
      At least get your smears right. The statement was that “young muslims are 3x more radicalised than their grandparents”. And here’s the evidence.

      – “36% of 16 to 24-year-olds believe if a Muslim converts to another religion they should be punished by death, compared with 19% of over-55s”

      -“37% of 16 to 24-year-olds prefer Sharia compared with 17% of over-55s”

      -“7% “admire organisations like al-Qaeda that are prepared to fight the West”. 13% of 16 to 24-year-olds agreed with this statement compared with 3% of over-55s”

      Stop living in la-la land. The evidence comes from the BBC, the Guardian. Naive leftists like you are so unbelievably ignorant and deluded. The rank stupidity is yours!

      1. young people are usually more idealistic and rebellious

        1. “young people are usually more idealistic and rebellious”

          Where are the young muslims who are rebelling against political islam in Britain? The only muslims I know who are rebelling in this way are those who are in the EDL.

          Hizb ut Tahrir could get 10000 muslims to their islamo-fascist conference at Wembley in 2002. Where were the 100s of young muslims rebelling against them? Nowhere to be seen. At least EDL gives muslims an organisation where they can speak out against islam and be protected whilst they do that.

          The only idealistic, rebellious muslims are those in EDL

          1. ‘…The only muslims I know who are rebelling in this way are those who are in the EDL…’

            you must be the comedian or rather clown of the day, just because most of young people dont follow your fascist ideology that doesnt mean they are not idealistic

    3. So what exactly constitutes anti-Muslim rhetoric, GulliverUK?

      Pointing out facts such as:-

      Some Muslims conspire to vent hatred against homosexuals? (tick)

      Some Muslims force their children into under-age marriages? (tick)

      Some Muslims enforce strict codes on their kids, who are routinely beaten and occasionally murdered for refusing to comply? (tick)

      Some Muslims scheme to enforce Sharia Law on their indigenous hosts? (tick)

      Some sexually repressed Muslims operate in peadophile gangs where they groom and seduce and ply white children with alcohol and drugs and pass them among each other for their depraved kicks? (tick)

      Need I go on?

      What you’re in fact doing, GulliverUK, is suggesting we turn a blind eye to what’s going on – aka the truth – and allow them to carry on committing heinous, barbaric behaviour in our country which was once proud to accept all-comers on the basis that they respected our culture and behave in a civilised, mutually respectful manner?

      1. I omitted to include in my above list the fact that one in five young offenders in the prison population is Muslim:-

        How does THAT fact sit with the bleeding heart apologists?

        Muslims have provided no net gain to our nation:- many of them incite violence and hatred against us, rape our kids, drain the welfare system dry and hog our prisons.

        I never thought I would hear myself say this, but never has Ukip sounded such an attractive proposition.

        From where I’m standing, the prospect of ongoing unfettered immigration leading to all of the above times 3, 5, 10 whatever far outweighs at this time the fight for equal marriage rights.

        Our very long term freedom to walk streets in safety – even our long term survival – are at risk as this problem can only fester and exacerbate unless nipped in the bud.

        Ignore their faux concern for gay rights:- the Lib/Lab/Con Marxist pact is allowing it to happen.

        1. I also shameful omitted the oppression of Islamic women living in the UK that can also manifest in violence and brutality.

          And how regularly these days are we hearing of Muslim girls – keen to break away from the oppressively harsh strictures implemented by their relatives, or who happen to fall in live with a non-Muslim – being hunted down and murdered for bringing “shame” on their family?

          Indeed not a day seems to pass when the press is not reporting some atrocity, seemingly on parity with non-Muslim crime.

          Gays, like many Muslim women and children, face the brunt of Islamic extremism:- but it is ultimately society as a whole that suffers and had to carrie the cumulative burden.

    4. Daniel Manuel 10 Mar 2013, 10:46am

      Agreed. We hear about Catholic and Church of England opposition to equal marriage all of them time, typically our response to them is frustration, annoyance and indignation however we also know that these institutions have a lot more say over the change in law than the leaders of the Islamic church.

      The bishops who sit in the House of Lords have a genuine say over whether or not the marriage Bill gets passed – why is no one calling for all of the Christians to piss off back to Rome? That would be stupid, right?

      I deplore the stance of anyone who makes an excuse based on theology to be ignorant and discriminative. However in the case of gay rights, and specifically equal marriage, opposition comes from many quarters; across the entire spectrum of religious institutions. Targeting a specific group of these opponents and attacking them with slurs of an equally prejudiced nature does nothing but make us look cheap and lacking in virtue.

      Most Muslims are good people.

      1. “Most Muslims are good people.”

        You are totally deluded. 99.5% of British muslims are anti-gay.

        As I’ve cited elsewhere in this thread, significant numbers of young muslims in Britain support Al Qaeda. 40% of young UK muslims want sharia law (under sharia law, slavery is legal, homosexuals are killed, apostates are killed).

        Hizb ut Tahrir makes the BNP look like Liberals. Yet in 2002, Hizb ut Tahrir could get 10000 islamo-fascists to their UK annual conference. From a population of 1 million muslims they could get 10000; I’ll bet that from a population of 50 million, the BNP could not get 200 people to a conference. British muslims find islamo-fascism very amenable. The Quilliam Foundation says there are now 20 islamo-fascist organisations in the UK pushing the same extremist line as HuT.

        I’ll bet you don’t live in a muslim ghetto. You live in la-la land.

  26. I don’t like the nature of this ‘leave our country’ talk. The same can be said of the Christian Institute. And where do you intend to ‘throw people out’ to? why should we unload our undesirables on other nations, where they become a greater burden to secularists, women, LGBT people, children and other religious minorities?

    I despise the views of these people, but I won’t throw hard-fought for liberties, such as freedom of expression and of association under the bus because I don’t agree with them. The way to oppose is through confronting, ridiculing, showing contempt for their arguments. It is true that there is a number of Islamist extremists, and we have to expose them where we see them, as I did 2 years ago. We must also expose hard left elements that collude with Islamist extremists, or fail to condemn them. We must stand up for those who wish to ridicule religious beliefs. All that is true, but the mark of a civilised country is one where freedom of expression is sacrosanct

    1. err . . . what on earth do you mean by “unload our undesirables on other nations”??

      These “undesirables” are not ours. These “undesirables” have come from “undesirable” nations. These “undesirables” are known to be engaging in their very “undesirable” religious practices throughout the UK all the time. Forced marriages. “Honour killings”. Enforced female genital mutilation. Hidden Sharia law-courts. Regular attempts to “cleanse” “their” areas of gays.

      Give “freedom of expression” to deluded people of this sort, as we are doing, and we continue to spawn a problem that’s going to cause us even more of a headache further down the line.

      1. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 3:41pm

        You omitted the endemic targeting and grooming of vulnerable white children from disturbed backgrounds who are plied with alcohol and drugs and then sexually, physically and mentally abused by Muslim paedophiles who loiter around schools and “care” homes, Sean.

        1. love your daily mail style of commenting

          1. kane, have you noticed that people here don’t approve of you simply sniping, simply name-calling, rather than contributing intelligently?

          2. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 7:49pm

            Just to inform you, Sean, that’s what disinformo shills and trolls usually do.

          3. sean its pointless to contribute anything even remotely intelligent when dealing with bigoted comments like yours, joe’s or samuel b’s (just to mention worst offenders) based on wild accusations, made up facts and stereotyping, all one can do is to expose idiocy of such comments.
            and please don’t cheapen the meaning of trolling by throwing the accusations right left and centre

          4. So, in Kane’s world retaliatory and reasonable comments about Muslims are “bigoted” whilst Christians are fair game for the same treatment, eh?

            So there we have it, folks:- proof that Kane is shilling to a PC/cultural Marxist agenda, because Islamic immigration is an intrinsic part of the plan to destabilise Britain – hence the “racist” epithets Kane hurls at all-comers – whereas Marxism by its very nature is encouraging the downfall of the Christian church in order, ultimately, to implement and foist its God-less “moral” codes upon us.

            How transparent can one be?!

          5. clearly slamuel b thinks that ‘reasonable’ comment can be based on stereotyping, generalising and distortion of the facts if it is used for ‘retaliatory’ purposes and as such doest have to be justified when challenged.

            in samuel b’s paranoid head anyone that doesnt agree with him must be ‘shilling to a PC/cultural Marxist agenda, because Islamic immigration is an intrinsic part of the plan to destabilise Britain’ (???)

            not entirely content with above accusation he then resorts to smear tactics by accusing his opponents of hurling “racist” epithets at him without specifying what in his paranoid head amounts to “racist”, which is yet another indication of his cannot be bothered to justify my actions when challenged

            i mean how transparent one can be indeed?!

      2. These “undesirables” are not ours. These “undesirables” have come from “undesirable” nations

        That comment is incredibly naive. We have our own home grown extremists. What do you propose we do with them?

        1. The first paragraph should be in quotation marks for anyone who believes I’ve directly contradicted myself.

        2. Sean, of course there are extreme Muslims who have been born here. And as decades past there’ll be more of them.

          But the next time your tele is on, listen carefully when any Muslim is interviewed. Most of the time you will easily detect that they were not raised here. Just listen out for the Asian or Arab accent!

          1. sean, edl must be so desperate if they are reduced to trolling on pink news boards, lol

          2. @kane…thats such bollocks, its is fair to assume anyone with a strong asian accent was not born in the uk…& if they don’t like it here then they can sod off!

      3. actually, a lot of these undesirables are home-grown, so yes, they are ours. I have no problem, of course, with throwing out clerics preaching hatred who aren’t British, and closing down operators of satellite channels beaming hatred to these shores. I was referring specifically to a meeting about opposing marriage equality, which anyone is welcome to organise. That is not by any stretch of the imagination ‘hate speech’.

        1. I don’t know if there’s a video anywhere of the proceedings at that meeting, Adrian, but it would be interesting to see and listen, wouldn’t it.

          My guess is that you would notice that the majority of people at that meeting did not sport a Sarf London accent! ;-)

          The young ones with the Sarf or Norf London accents are seldom the ones making the trouble. It’s the beardies with the white skirts and the odd hooked hand who stir up the hatred, like that one that damn stupid bend-over-backwards judges are so reluctant to send back to the Middle East.

        2. “I was referring specifically to a meeting about opposing marriage equality, which anyone is welcome to organise. That is not by any stretch of the imagination ‘hate speech’.”

          No doubt muslims and their leftist enablers would describe a meeting that wanted to institute discrimination against muslims into the legal system as “hate speech” or even “apartheid”. 10000 muslims paid to go to, and to travel to, a Hizb ut Tahrir conference in Wembley. Hizb ut Tahrir’s policy is exactly that — apartheid, where non-muslims are the 2nd class citizens.

          1. Until you can provide the links between The Tooting Mosque and Hizb ut Tahrir, I see no relevance in your post. Wembley is a space available to everyone, a mosque, like a church or temple, can make their own arrangements. You conflate promoting terrorism and hate speech with run of the mill bigotry, and tarnish all Muslims as terrorists. We know this because of the speeches made by your leader Tommy Robinson and others. Telling that the Committee of ExMuslims has done a whole dossier on your party isn’t it?

            I saw the comings and goings outside the July 2011 Hizb ut Tahrir conference in Bow by the way. Not locals, turning up in flash German cars; I would say the attendance was in the hundreds. Still dangerous of course, but not in five figures.

            It is curious, I suggest opponents to equal marriage should not be automatically deported and your reaction is to paint me as enabling a sharia state!

            Avoid the EDL . The National Secular Society has the best solutions.

          2. “the Committee of ExMuslims has done a whole dossier on your party isn’t it? ”

            You mean the Council of Ex-Muslims? At least get the name right! CoEM is run by an Iranian communist who helped the fundamentalists to come to power in Iran. When the islamo-fascists started to kill them, these commies then fled to Britain. Only a moron would trust their judgement.

            I never said that Tooting Mosque = HuT. I am saying that a group of muslims getting together to deny gay people equal rights is as unacceptable as a group of non-muslims getting together to institute aparteid against muslims. I then pointed out that such apartheid is exactly what HuT has been proposing in the UK for 30 years. And HuT can get 10000 islamo-fascists together to support that policy. 30k were due to see Naik in 2010.

            The worry is not the 1000 people HuT gets to a conference these days. As ex-members of HuT have pointed out, there are now 20 huge islamo-fascist organisations in the UK. The cancer has spread.

  27. Georg Friedrich 9 Mar 2013, 12:04pm

    ‘Children argument’, again. For me its like new version of caricatures ‘deviant old Jew men and innocent blond German girl’ in German tabloids of the 30-es, at the eve of Holocaust.

    1. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 3:46pm

      So you deny there is a chronic problem regarding the vastly disproportionate level of Muslim paedophilia in the UK, Georg?

      1. please tell us, what is the percentage of muslims engaging in paedophilia that makes it a chronic problem at vastly disproportionate level ?

        1. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 5:11pm

          Would that be Muslims as a percentage of the total male population of the UK?

          Or more critically, not to say pertinently, the percentage of active Muslim paedophiles and child abusers as a percentage of the UK Muslim male community, pray tell?

          No doubt as a subverter come skewerer of statistics to support your mind-made-up PC liberal agenda/consensus, you would plumb for option one?

          1. and now you are asking even more stupid questions just to avoid answering my question

          2. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 7:24pm

            Why I appear to have my very own stalker on this board.

            How, erm, “quaint”. :)

      2. Georg is not based in the UK I believe. So he knows nothing of the large rings of Muslim men in Bolton, Rochdale, Oxford, and other places in the UK who have been found to have indulged in getting underage non-Muslim girls drunk in order to have sex with them. Georg seems unaware of the trial of a dozen such Muslim men that is going on at this very time at the Old Bailey.

        1. Georg Friedrich 9 Mar 2013, 7:28pm

          Thank you. I speak here about banal, but very beloved by Conservatives of all world argument: ‘children rights vs. gay rights’. Nothing more.

          1. I’m very sorry, Georg, I believe I misunderstood you, partly because of the way another person interpreted you.

            Now, if I understand you correctly you are saying that the Muslim who met last night in London to campaign against same-sex marriage are using much the same “we fear for our children” argument that you say was used in Germany during the rise of H*tler? I didn’t know that one of the N*zis methods of campaigning against the Jews was to claim that they were a danger to the “pure Aryan race”, but I am not surprised to hear it.

            My apologies, once again.

          2. Georg, thank you, you have pointed to an extraordinary and outrageous thing!

            Last night a bunch of Muslim loons met in south London out of fear for the welfare of their children – so their poster says!

            However, at this very time, 12 Muslim men from Oxfordshire are on trial at the Old Bailey in London, for having used and abused young children for sexual purposes, plying them with drink and then having sex with them.

            And this is far from the first such case. We have had other rings in the north of England. It’s been very worrying that this large ring was based in the very fine southern city of Oxford!

            Thank you for taking me towards the irony of this situation.

          3. Apologies also for misunderstanding your wording, Georg.

  28. CH Brighton 9 Mar 2013, 12:11pm

    Decent, thoughtful muslims are no different from decent thoughtful christians, jews, hindus and atheists. It’s the fundamentalists of many religious persuasions and some philosphical positions that are the problem. In addition, we need to reach out to support to the GLBT family members of people with fundamentalist views. They are at risk of grave psychological harm and even physical danger to the point of murder.

    1. CH Brighton, yes, of course “decent thoughtful” Muslims are no different from “decent thoughtful” Christians, but what’s a “decent thoughtful” Muslim or a “decent thoughtful” Christian?

      A Muslim who turns to Mecca five times a day, who fasts throughout Ramadan, who attends the mosque to hear a sermon once a week, and who regularly and devoutly reads his Koran will tell you that he is a “decent thoughtful” Muslim.

      And such “decent thoughtful” Muslims are exactly the ones who have been shown to believe we are an abomination, an evil.

      It’s “decent thoughtful” Muslims who hang young gay men in Iran, who slice their heads off in Saudi Arabia, and put them in prison in Egypt and other Muslim countries.

      1. It’s quite obvious what CH Brighton meant by “decent thoughtful” people. People who are open-minded and non-judgmental. Not people who kill or advocate killing gays. But you knew that.

        The polarisation some people here like to engage in is incredibly tiresome. Religious attitudes are a huge problem for us, and muslim attitudes more so than most. But that’s not likely to change if we spurn those muslims who want to reform those attitudes. All that will happen is that they end up being alienated from both sides.

    2. Absolutely, CHBrighton, just as the gay lobby/radical fringe can never profess to speak for all gays.

      But it is the duty of the moderate and liberal majority to speak out against their militant tendency when extremist views are espoused.

      We have seen moderate Christian groups come out in support of gay rights, but the Muslim community’s silence on the same issue is deafening, with the notable exception of the Conservative Baroness Warsi who spoke out virulently against Muslim paedophile groomers of white children.

      And guess what?

      Within a month she was removed from office:- not specifically down to the rare occurrence of a Lib/Lab/Con Parliamentarian speaking the truth, but we can be sure that was an influencing factor.

      I’ve oft spoken on these boards of my aversion to gay marriage at this particular time:- partly because until the Muslim community has learned to abide by our codes and standards, any move in that direction will prove increasingly divisive and incendiary.

  29. I find it odd the way EDL and other far right types are always so quick to rush to the defence of the LGBTQ community if it offers an opportunity to spew anti-Muslim bile, yet I have no doubt that the vast majority of their members are likely neolithic homophobes who conform to the orthodox BNP view of sexual minorities. Actually, I know this to be so. Beware.

    1. What have the EDL or BNP got to do with this news story? This is about bigoted muslims and imans organising meetings to try and stop LGBT equality.

      1. GulliverUK 9 Mar 2013, 1:00pm

        I said we should be very specific in language used, because generalising by some appears an attempt to smear any and all Muslims, and that should not be the intent. We’re against homophobes, agitators, fundamentalists with extremist views, whether Christian, Muslin or other. We don’t want to be making generalised sweeping statements condemning all Muslims, or all Christians. There are plenty of Christians, from polling data here and in the UK who support equality – in fact in the US support runs at 60%, whilst in the general population the same polls show 56%. We must help Christians and Muslims who support equality and fairness to overcome the failed leaderships of those organisations – just like we must support people of faith who want an equal role for women in society and their churches and mosques.

        It’s NOT gays vs religion.

        1. This story isn’t about christians, it’s about muslim. Christians get their share of anger when there is a story about their religion’s bigotry of LGBT – and no one brings up islam.

          Show me a meeting that LGBT people are organising to stop muslims getting equality. Show me a LGBT organisation that says muslims should be put to death. Show me a country run by LGBT where islam is ciminalised with the punishment of death, torture or imprisonment.

          LGBT people’s anger at islam is caused by their bigotry towards us, our anger should be listened to because this religion hates us – the proof is in the way in which we are treated in any country where islam has any power. If they had no problem with me, I wouldn’t have one with them. They start the fight with their hate, so I must defend myself.

          You gave some christian percentages. The last poll I know of muslim percentages was in 2009….

        2. G-UK, you sound delightfully idealistic!

          You clearly haven’t got any direct experience of life in Islamic countries.

          As for your parting shot “It’s NOT gays vs religion”, I think we should be very glad that the two guys who run the National Secular Society are a gay couple!

        3. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 5:16pm

          @GulliverUK:- “I said we should be very specific in language used, because generalising by some appears an attempt to smear any and all Muslims,”

          Ironic that your comment should appear just after Al attempts to smear the majority of commentators on this thread as “EDL and other far right types”…

          1. It might help to re-read my comment carefully. If you feel my criticism of EDL-esque views applies to you, then that speaks volumes. But the fact is inescapable that the majority of comments on this thread seem sadly skewed in favour of bigoted hate speech characteristic of fascist and neo-nazi groups such as the EDL, BNP etc. I don’t need to provide examples, simply take a look at the history of the thread. Some of us here, thankfully, recognise this and are unafraid to say that, whilst we abhore homphobia from whatever quarter, we abhore anything aligned with the EDL, BNP or related far right groups without distinction. They have no place in civilised society, and no place in this discussion forum. It is sad that some of these comments are not moderated off this thread.

          2. In 2010, the police Domestic Extremism Unit had spend 1 year investigating EDL and concluded “that the EDL was not an extreme right-wing group. ”

            It’s the leftist enablers of islamlo-fascism who can’t bear to face the truth. Those people who have been complicit in the ethnic cleansing of gay people from east London. Those people who helped muslims for the last 10 years to cover up the muslim grooming/raping gangs.

      2. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 3:58pm

        Having lost the argument, Al is resorting to the lowest level of invective employed in the far left wing heart-bleeding PC-brainwashed liberal’s arsenal by slurring us all as EDL and BNP members and sympathisers, Mark Y.

        I mean, how low can a “debate” with these dangerously deluded people go?

        1. GulliverUK 9 Mar 2013, 6:11pm

          Those of who have seen EDL, BNP and UKIP rhetoric, anti-Muslim rhetoric, know how it flows. You start off being specific about homophobes who follow Islam, and might even mention the parallels with homophobes who are Christian (an actual threat, because they’re very organised and have lots of powerful lobby groups, like Christian Concern and The Christian Institute), ….. but then pretty soon certain individuals start expanding it to encompass ALL Muslims, from ALL over the world, 100% of them (presumably even the gay ones) who are ALL against the gays. Then the slurs are started, the denomisation, etc. We’ve all seen that turned upon us – one man claims to have had sex with 400 men in one year and suddenly every single gay man is said to have sex with 400 men a year.

          And if you, or anybody else would vote BNP or UKIP I would never want to know you – because you vote for a party intent on damaging our legal rights far more than any small group of bigoted Muslims would.

          1. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 7:54pm

            And you would not have posted that last sentence, GulliverUK, had Al not planted that cheap, disgraceful slur in your head.


          2. GulliverUK 9 Mar 2013, 10:58pm

            Sam, incorrect. If you check my posts you’ll see I said it about a week ago, but I’ve also said it prior to that. I don’t want to be involved with any people who oppress people who are gay. If you vote for a party like the BNP or UKIP, you are oppressing people who are gay by lending your support to homophobic organisations. And the EDL is simply anti-non whites non-indigenous (horrible word) individuals and groups.

            In fact, until you mentioned it, I wasn’t aware AL had said that. I want to be with and work with and converse with progressives who can further our equality and acceptance, and thus no time for detractors and distractions.

          3. Thank you for your clarification and apologies for my false assumption, GulliverUK.

        2. The only argument here should be in favour of gay marriage. How disturbing that instead it has turned into one against islamophobia and populist far right hate-mongering.

          1. The story is about muslims trying to stop gay equality. The hate mongering is from muslims towards gay people. The anger directed towards islam is because they are homophobic. Stop trying to change the subject to suit your agenda. Islam is a belief system that is homophobic and hate-mongering. How disturbing that you cannot see that.

      3. I don’t know what the EDL has to do with the story but I suspect that Al is referring, in part, to “Joe”, whose affiliations are clear in the link from his name.

        1. Look at the nature of so many of the comments here – “They should go back to their own country” “If they don’t like it leave” “They’re all the same”. Typical hate-filled, ignorant diatribes that seek to tarnish the racial/cultural/religious ‘other’ by any means available – in this instance by hijacking the LGBTQ rights agenda. It starts in this way, by lazy stereotyping and calls for people to leave their own country. History teaches us how it ends, and as members of sexual minorities (most of us here, I inagine), we ought to be aware of this profoundly and be concerned at the poisonous bigoted bile that has been spewed over this story thread against our Muslim fellow citizens.

          1. Weasel words, Al, and a pathetically lame effort and classic PC sensitivity-training course stunt to attempt to invert a debate, inside out:- in this instance by painting PN visitors as the “evil-doers” when it is not us advocating “death to gays” nor violently throwing little children from predator to predator like rag dolls for sexual thrills.

            Why shouldn’t we suggest that Muslims who want to subvert, Islamify and abuse our culture pack their bags and leave for sunnier climes?

            That is pure reasoned logic and plain common sense compared to the twisted, irrational and, frankly, insane outpourings of PC brainwashed acolytes like you and your sidekick Al.

            It is just great to see that at the end of the day most gay people are prepared to drop the dishonest, false PC posturing and stand up and be counted and say it as it is when the sh@t hits the fan.

          2. Indeed. I’m reminded of a bunch at the other extreme of the spectrum, the SWP, who would turn up at any demonstration for any not-obviously-right-wing cause to hand out their banners and placards in “support”.

          3. Samuel B, to suggest that there can only be one group of “evil-doers” is yet another example of the binary rhetoric typical of bigots of all colours. To then imply in the second half of your post that Al and whoever you’re labelling as his “sidekick” are just as “evil” as the bigots Al was criticising is such an astounding turnabout into self-contradictory hypocrisy that I’m left with an image of an elenctic Klein bottle. I can only applaud your effort :)

          4. By referencing “evil-doers” in inverted commas I was clearly being ironic, though no surprise here that the irony was totally lost on the likes of you!

          5. Just as, it would seem, my use of the same quotes indicating the same usage as you employed was lost on you.

            (Not that I would describe that usage as “ironic”, unless you are referring to the ironic contradiction between the first and second halves of your post).

    2. @Al – Do you mean like how the bleeding heart PC thought police who patrol these boards are always quick to jump to the defence of Islam while at the same time cheer leading the tirade against Christianity?

      I merely point that out for the extreme stench of hypocrisy your ilk have been wafting throughout this thread.

      Before you again infer those stating facts regarding the total disrespect some Muslims display towards their adopted UK must, therefore, be BNP members/sympathisers, I’d point out that I for one am a liberal Jew who always speaks out against the Israeli occupation of Palestine and its persecution of Palestine’s indigenous people.

      How can that be if I am anti-Muslim per se?

      Can’t it occur to your closed minds that most of us ARE tolerant of all creeds and cultures who choose to adopt the UK as their homeland so long as they respect our values and work to ensure their more radical elements are rooted out and brought to book?

      Is that really too much to ask?

    3. @Al, thats because fellow Liberals are too often too scared to criticize Islam, & the far right are left to pick up the slack.

      1. ‘Islam’ isn’t the object of criticism here, the unhelpful, intolerant views of a small number of its adherents are. The far right have no place anywhere in a decent society.

  30. Robert in S. Kensington 9 Mar 2013, 12:49pm

    I understand the sentiments towards some muslims, but just look around. It’s not just confined to Islam, but also Christianity. The hierarchies of the Anglican and especially the Catholic cult have said some of the most vile, hateful words addressing the issue of equal marriage aided and abetted by their shills at the C4M/CI, hate groups among others. Where were or are all of those moderate and progressive members and leaders when we need them? Not one word of condemnation. Why aren’t they standing up to them, drawing a line in the sand? That too can apply to many supportive MPs. I’m sick and tired of the deferential treatment given to these people for fear of upsetting or offending them. Meanwhile, we’re subjected to offensive rhetoric almost on a daily basis and nobody steps in to defend us. Why?

    1. Robert we CAN complain about Christian (& do)without out being accused of Racism or being Far Right

      So many of my fellow Liberal find it near impossible to take issue with Islam & end up defending Intolerance.

      1. So true, Daniel. I’m liberal and I’ve often noted how my straight liberal friends often seem to think that Islam is just a lovely branch of colourful trendy multiculturalism, like Buddhism, like ChinaTown, like Feng Shui even! Some white Brits are just so dim, they still haven’t woken up to the fact that economic migrants, many of whom are Muslim, head to the UK because they’ve heard we are a complete walk-over. Look at the situation right now with regard to Bulgarian and Roumania: ministers are saying the Bulgarians and Roumanians shouldn’t be able to come here and immediately claim benefits BUT THEY HAVE SO FAR NOT ANNOUNCED THAT THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY GOING TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN’T HAPPEN!

        One of our biggest problems in this country is that we’re generally just too damn nice for our own good!

        1. ukip much? im so glad they lost by-election, bigoted loosers

    2. But Christians do not preach “Death to the infidels”, Robert, at least not the last time I checked.

      We can well stand our own against anti-gay Christian rhetoric, with our extremist fringe often trumping and out-gunning the extremist Christian fringe.

      But where Islam is concerned we face an altogether more sinister and potentially incendiary threat as its presence in the UK gains ever greater force and power via ongoing immigration and the birth rate in the Muslim community:- one of the highest in the UK.

      There is an entire new generation if Muslims being born here who, as soon as they are able to murmur “Mu…hammed”, are brainwashed and indoctrinated with the ways, practises and tenets of radical Muslim.

      The sins of the father are being passed from generation to generation with no attempt made to break the chain of venomous bile aimed at the unlike:- a simmering pressure cooker of hate and loathing that can only, one day, explode into open street warfare.

    3. ” we’re subjected to offensive rhetoric almost on a daily basis and nobody steps in to defend us. Why?”

      EDL & Casuals United have threatened to demonstrate against many different homophobic islamo-fascists at British universities, resulting in the universities stopping the islamo-fascists from speaking. In the last few years EDL also got many islamo-fascist conferences cancelled across the country. Zakir Naik was going to speak to 30,000 islamo-fascists in the UK, but after EDL said they would protest outside each of the stadiums where he was to speak, the Home Secretary banned him from entering.

      The reason why the UAF, or Hope Not Hate, or anti-fa does not do anything about homophobic muslims is because of their own lack of principle. The left has no genuine principles except a lust for power. Slavery is still on-going; there are 600,000 black africans enslaved by muslims in Mauritania, yet the anti-slavery movement is silent.

  31. I find Muslim intolerence of gay people nothing compared to the extreme revulsion all decent-minded people feel towards the cultural harbouring of vastly disproportionate levels of paedophilia that exist within the Islamic community, and the widespread targeting and abuse of indigenous children it entails.

    That these young girls are invariably plied with booze and drugs by their “groomers” tells us all we need to know about the so-called moral codes of the same radical Muslims who we can be sure are also among the rabble inciting hatred against gay people.

    Thank goodness there are a lot of decent Muslims too, but more of them need to be speaking out against the radical mob that give all Muslims a bad name.

    Muslim hatred against gay people is the PC-indoctrinated far left’s Achilles Heel, it would seem.

    1. ‘…the cultural harbouring of vastly disproportionate levels of paedophilia that exist within the Islamic community…’

      ok bigot i will try ask again, what is the percentage of muslims engaging in paedophilia that authorises above comment?

      1. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 5:18pm

        And I will respond again thus:-

        Would that be Muslims as a percentage of the total male population of the UK?

        Or more critically, not to say pertinently, the percentage of active Muslim paedophiles and child abusers as a percentage of the UK Muslim male community, pray tell?

        No doubt as a subverter come skewerer of statistics to support your mind-made-up PC liberal agenda/consensus, you plumb for option one.

        Nuff said.

        1. clearly you are not prepared to validate your bigoted comment and the simple reason is you can’t. you’re right, nuff said indeed

          1. So, in Kane’s world retaliatory and reasonable comments about Muslims are “bigoted” whilst Christians are fair game for the same treatment, eh?

            So there we have it, folks:- proof that Kane is shilling to a PC/cultural Marxist agenda, because Islamic immigration is an intrinsic part of the plan to destabilise Britain – hence the “racist” epithets Kane hurls at all-comers – whereas Marxism by its very nature is encouraging the downfall of the Christian church in order, ultimately, to implement and foist its God-less “moral” codes upon us.

            How transparent can one be?!

          2. clearly slamuel b thinks that ‘reasonable’ comment can be based on stereotyping, generalising and distortion of the facts if it is used for ‘retaliatory’ purposes and as such doest have to be justified when challenged.

            in samuel b’s paranoid head anyone that doesnt agree with him must be ‘shilling to a PC/cultural Marxist agenda, because Islamic immigration is an intrinsic part of the plan to destabilise Britain’ (???)

            not entirely content with above accusation he then resorts to smear tactics by accusing his opponents of hurling “racist” epithets at him without specifying what in his paranoid head amounts to “racist”, which is yet another indication of his cannot be bothered to justify my actions when challenged

            i mean how transparent one can be indeed???

      2. People like Kane have covered-up the systematic rape of vulnerable young girls for decades. When C4 made a documentary about this in 2004, leftwing/black organisations successfully threatened C4 to get the documentary blocked.

        Outside the UK, muslims openly admit that these gangs in the UK are overwhelmingly muslim. “it is beyond dispute that that group is disproportionately represented.”

        Police & CPS wouldn’t prosecute them, because what happened with C4 showed they would be accused of racism by the likes of Kane.

        Moreover, muslims in Holland have also been getting away with grooming/raping young girls too (only there they are muslims from Morocco/Turkey, instead of Pakistan/Bangladesh). It is disgusting that such a heinous crime is described in such euphemistic terms as “lover boys”.

        See more here

        1. joe is employing typical for edl tactic of distorting facts and propaganda, but lets scrutinise the links he provides:
          he claims the first link states: ‘… leftwing/black organisations successfully threatened C4 to get the documentary blocked.…’, and now what is actually said in the link : ‘..Channel 4 has pulled a documentary about social workers in Bradford from its schedule after police warned it could increase racial tension. then he says: ‘… muslims openly admit that these gangs in the UK are overwhelmingly muslim. “it is beyond dispute that that group is disproportionately represented.”…’, the source he quoted claims that: ‘… it is both inappropriate and incorrect to extrapolate from it the conclusion that all sexual offences of this type are committed by Pakistani men..’ and according to Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (CEOP), 70% were non asian

          1. 70% of known suspects were non asians, next joe claims ‘… muslims in Holland have also been getting away with grooming/raping young girls too…’, his source, errr, yep you guessed it right wing website.

            And then this cretin goes on to say ‘…People like Kane have covered-up the systematic rape of vulnerable young girls for decades…’, how old is this guy, 11???

          2. @Kane:- “joe is employing typical for edl tactic of distorting facts and propaganda…”

            Oh, do you mean in a similar vein to how you employ the typical cultural Marxist tactic of inverting truth and hectoring, stalking and smearing those you can’t turn with your agenda’s brand of PC fascism?

            I will take Joe’s “EDL propaganda” masquerading as plain common sense every time, ta very much.

            Touché! :)

          3. The police, social workers, media and government agencies like CEOP have all been covering this up for decades. Yes, decades. It has been going on for 30 years. If you actually had family who lived in northern working-class towns, you’d know about it. I know of cases from Chester which still haven’t come to light. Here’s a map of the known cases. The retired head of Rochdale council has said there needs to be a Public Inquiry into it. And he’s right. If there’s an Inquiry then all the cover-up can be exposed.

            I suppose a child-rape enabler like Kane is going to say that the muslim women’s group are lying when the point out what is being covered up with the systematic rape of 9 y.o. muslim girls.

            I detest you smug liberals who allow things like this to carry on. Why has that story from Islington not appeared on national TV, or in the national media? Why are 9 y.o. muslim girls sacrificed to political-correctness?

        2. samuel b you are even more boring then the porridge, quite a feat for edl member

    2. And this is relevant to this issue, how? Other than trying to push a bigoted view of anything Islamic? Your use of the term ‘cultural Marxists’ has troubling echoes of a certain Norwegian, as well. My labelling of you as EDL/BNP was apt, it seems. How sad. Though ultimately positive that you feel able to comment on Pink News, and hence able to embrace your sexuality (I hope). But don’t expect your bigotry and hate-mongering to go unanswered here, this is not Stormwatch, the BNP or the Daily Mail (Heaven forbid).

      1. Al, samuel b is so edl he dosen’t even know it

        1. As a Jew who campaigns vigorously against Israel’s persecution of the Palestinian people, clearly the EDL would be my natural party of choice!

          Now, I am truly flattered by your adoring attention, Kane, and that of your sidekick stooge Al, but sadly the feeling is not reciprocated so kindly go and serenade someone else before I seek a restraining order against you, there’s a good pit bull.

          1. the lady doth protest too much, methinks

          2. You have some very strange ideas that lead you to odd name-calling when backed into a corner, if I may make that observation. The EDL aren’t a ‘party’, and I hold open the possibility that you affiliate yourself with any grouping on the far right of the political spectrum, or even the hard right, such as the more reactionary side of UKIP or the Tories. It would be helpful to know how you campaign against ‘Israel’s persecution’ and how you square your apparent concern for ‘the Palestinian people’ with your thorough dislike of their religion?

          3. Al, samuel b is a right wing nutter and nobody takes his pro palestinian credentials seriously. he even uses his apparent jewish roots to shut down any inconvenient discussion.

  32. Ken Lewis 9 Mar 2013, 1:07pm

    Congratulations to the Muslim MPs who voted in favor of the bill they voted for all of their constituency including no doubt many gay Muslims

  33. Oh well, it keeps them off the streets. Wonder what would happen if they got locked in…?

  34. The Police MUST attent this meeting…

  35. It feels to me like the only time religious groups stop hating on each other is when they hate on us.

  36. I see vastly more Homophobia in Islam to a point of near total.

    Theres only one LGBT friendly Mosque & thats only opened recently in Paris. I know of several Gay friendly Christian Churches near me in Lambeth & one Synagogue too, no Mosques though.

    1. For 20 years muslims have been allowed to de-gay east London (in the early 1990s that area had more gay bars/clubs than almost anywhere else in London).

      Two years ago, when muslims declared Tower Hamlets a Gay Free Zone, the muslim behind the recent Tell MAMA campaign appeared on Pink News, blaming synagogues, churches and temples for the Gay Free Zone. He put mosques last in the list. This is the kind of “moderate muslim” who is supposedly speaking out for gay rights. In truth, he wants to blame anyone but muslims for what muslims do.

      The “gay friendly” mosque in Paris is inside a Buddhist centre. Meanwhile, experts on Buddhism acknowledge that buddhism has never recovered from the attacks by muslims 1000 years ago (muslims destroyed the massive buddhist university at Nalanda, when they invaded India ).

      1. Never knew it was inside a buddhist center…not such good news, thanks for posting Joe.

      2. …& yes the PinkNews link/article was rather awful to say the least, he was rather reluctant to blame Islam at all.

        This is my key point its Islam (a set of beliefs) is what I’m angry with & I can choose to like or not like it.

        Muslims on the other hand & semi muslims too (like my ex who was never religious & half white/british) should not always be lumped in the religious ‘Islam’ slot….christ i’m tired so hope this makes sense.

        1. “Muslims on the other hand & semi muslims too … should not always be lumped in the religious ‘Islam’ slot…”

          Exactly. Which is why EDL has tried to get muslims to join. But it is people like Baroness Warsi who want to hold onto their own power as “community leaders” who toured England in 2010 telling muslims “do not join EDL”. Why would she have done that, if she hadn’t heard that there were muslims joining EDL?

          One prominent muslim (Abdul) has been to umpteen EDL demos. Never once has he been attacked or subjected to racist abuse. Other (more timid) muslims have been too (including some exceptional muslim women, who are not religious and don’t wear a hijab).

  37. Helge Vladimir Tiller 9 Mar 2013, 3:50pm

    It is a disgrace to all muslims in the UK that believers of this faith -at least the vast majority- hate lesbians and homosexuals- The LGBT community must support muslims, politicians or not, who are gay-friendly; in every possible way. I’ve met so many nice and friendly gay muslims over the past 42 years, and can assure you that these persons hate and dislike “the judging part” of Islam– ( and have other interpretations–Whether they themselves are religious or not-)I support IRQR (Canada) Really GOOD people !

    1. I have also met such Muslims – often theologically knowledgeable people who can debunk the homophobes’ claims quite easily. But they are distressingly silent in the face of the haters and would-be killers of lesbians and gays. Some of them are complacent but some would be frankly scared to speak out. And it’s hard to blame them.

      1. Very true, Riondo. FEAR amongst Muslims is a powerful force. In fact, it’s a powerful force in any cult. Look at how things are secretively manipulated in Xian churches.

        I lived for many years in a number of Muslim countries and met quite a large number of Muslim men who were actually gay. I say “actually gay” because FEAR meant that they all felt they HAD TO pretend. None of them could be out.

        Hell, a man can’t even walk down the street in an Islamic state dressed in stylish clothing without being suspected of being a homosexual and thereby made to pay for it, socially, if not in harsher and more direct ways.

        1. GulliverUK 9 Mar 2013, 7:55pm

          Eddy, this suggest your view is somewhat … informed by previous experiences, and whilst it’s useful to know how things are in other countries, it’s not entirely relevant to the UK, where most young followers of Islam have grown up in this country. Moreover, to imagine that every child grows up and then continues on with their religious beliefs and practices is absurd. I know two Muslim men, neither gay, who were brought up as Muslims but don’t practice their religion at all any more. They’re far more likely to be in the pub, catching a movie, getting on with their careers, etc.

          We need to be specific to how things are here in the UK – not be distracted by events / culture in other countries, when the essence is how are we treated by, and how do UK Muslims feel about us, here in the UK.

          1. Gulliver, do you see the contradiction?

            “I know two Muslim men, neither gay, who were brought up Muslims but don’t practice their religion at all any more”.

            I am sure you will seek to excuse the contradiction. But let me assure you that I don’t really blame you for it. I’m absolutely sure you know the saying “Once a Catholic, always a Catholic”. I refute it. I know many people who have divested themselves entirely of Catholicism, who have detested it now for decades. But in my experience to suggest “Once a Muslim, always a Muslim” would be to suggest something very very true.

            And of course there’s good reason for such a suggestion. Catholics who turn against Catholicism are simply regarded as sadly “lapsed”. If they parade themselves vehemently they may, at worst, be “excommunicated”. But Muslims? With them it’s DEATH!

            That’s why you’re friends are still Muslims, who will if challenged always toe the Muslim line.


        2. Samuel B. 9 Mar 2013, 8:03pm

          And I have no doubt that some of the most rabidly homophobic Muslims harbour deep-rooted homosexual desires, and that their constant railing against us is how they give vent to their internalised homophobia and self-hatred.

          I stop short of describing it as a coping mechanism, that would be too simplistic and an excuse for their behaviour, but there are clearly significant underlying symptoms that manifest this level of hatred within followers of all judgmental and Intolerant religions.

          Perhaps we should all be petitioning for churches and mosques to be converted into psychiatric readjustment centres wherein years of religious programming can be undone and those who have been indoctrinated can be freed from the fear that controls them…

      2. Helge V. Tiller 9 Mar 2013, 10:00pm

        True Riondo ! Fear is deeply rooted in almost all religious muslims ( and most non religious ) when it comes to speaking in public about homosexuality. They don’t like, or want to defend you openly in public places. Even if they agree with you and the Gay Rights Movement. Because law schools in Islam prescribe the death penalty for homosexual activity. ( all of them apart from one ! ) But gay activists from muslim cultural areas, for instance those in IRQR speak out in public. I wish there could have been many more with such bravery ! In general it is fair to say that the ordinary muslim , man or woman, is extremely afraid of being labeled as homosexual. EXTREMELY AFRAID ! Greetings from Norway to all participants here !

      3. There is a saying, Rhiondo:- “Great evil can only happen when good men look the other way and do nothing.”

        Now there are many good Muslims – I have known plenty – but their silence and refusal to stand up and be counted by taking a stand against their radical element is utterly deplorable, some wound say despicable.

        Now. if the radical element is indeed a minority of the Muslim population, then why is the majority not standing together as one to denounce this cancer in their midst?

        Why are they not speaking out to lance this boil, instead allowing it to fester and bubble until the day it bursts wide open and engulfs us all?

        It is their duty and responsibility to work to harmonise and integrate their customs and practises into OUR way of life, not vice versa!

      4. When I went to hear IMAAN talk, 1/3 of the room was “moderate muslims”, and 1/3 of the room was “fundamentalists”. The “moderates” were clearly despairing about what the “fundamentalists” were saying (i.e. kill gay people). But the despair of the “moderates” was that they had no theological/scriptural/historical basis for their (heretical) view of islam.

        A few weeks ago I was at a leftwing meeting where a secular muslim (who had been active in politics in the UK for 30 years) stood up and said “you expect people like me to stand up against the islamic fascists, and we can’t; they turn around and denounce us saying ‘you are not muslim, you are an infidel’ “.

        My muslim apostate friend is in hiding from his family, becaues they are trying to kill him for leaving islam and speaking out about it publicly.

        1. You’re telling it like it is, Joe. Not like how irresponsible non-Muslims want to imagine that it is.

        2. @Joe:- “you expect people like me to stand up against the islamic fascists, and we can’t; they turn around and denounce us saying ‘you are not muslim, you are an infidel’ “

          And you expect people like ME to stand up against the rabid PC fascists who infest these boards, and we ARE:- (even if) they turn around and denounce us as racist or “you are an EDL” member…

          And make no mistake, Joe, PC/cultural Marxism – also known as “the greatest cancer in the Western world” – IS a fascist agenda that seeks to invert truth and create as much chaos and mayhem as possible to break our will and bring us to our knees:-

          This is a fact that can no longer be dismissed as conspiracy theory:- it is now in plain sight and people are waking up in their droves to the deceit, betrayal and treachery foisted upon us.

          1. Please make your mind up. Is it Islam or “PC/cultural Marxism” that’s “the greatest cancer in the Western world”? Please also decide whether those “PC” persons you oppose are “far left wing heart-bleeding PC-brainwashed liberals” or “fascists”.

            “[L]eft-wing describes an outlook or specific position that accepts or supports social equality, often in opposition to social hierarchy and social inequality. It usually involves a concern for those in society who are disadvantaged relative to others and an assumption that there are unjustified inequalities (which right-wing politics views as natural or traditional) that need to be reduced or abolished.”

          2. “Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism. Fascists seek to unify their nation through a totalitarian state that seeks the mass mobilization of the national community, relying on a vanguard party to initiate a revolution to organize the nation on fascist principles. Fascism views political violence, war and imperialism as a means to achieve national rejuvenation, spirit and vitality. It asserts that claimed superior nations and races that need living space should displace claimed weak and inferior nations and races.”

          3. As for your own link:
            “[This page has some issues]
            Cultural Marxism refers to a category within cultural studies, popular mainly in the 1960s. Its purpose is to apply analytical techniques developed by Karl Marx (see dialectic materialism) to discover power structures within cultural artefacts like family composition, gender, race, or cultural identity within Western society.

            In current American politics, the term has been picked up in a sense that does not reference an analytical technique, but a conspiracy to destroy Western society and Christian religion … This is seen as the true purpose behind Political correctness and Multiculturalism, which are identified with Cultural Marxism. This use is popular among American right-wingers, who see themselves in a cultural war with Marxists they assume to have subverted American institutions like schools, universities, media, entertainment industry and most mainline churches”


          4. And the BBC, our schools, indeed all our once great and now shambolic Institutions haven’t been subverted, you blind, arrogant fool?!

            Look no further than David Nicholson, who refuses to fall on his sword for demoralising and eroding the NHS, oh, and who happens to have been a practising communist Marxist – quel surprise!

            I rest my case.

          5. ..,now cue the PC apologist BS and aggrandising for Sir David (who, me?!) Nicholson and how he played no role whatsoever (honest, Guv’!) in the manslaughter of hundreds, if not thousands of patients who put their faith and trust in his hands to take proper care of them.


        3. Sorry, I phrased the above badly. It was THE SECULAR MUSLIM with 30 years of leftwing activism in Britain who said people like HIM could not stand up against islamic-fascism! So, if secular muslims can’t do it, if ex-muslims can’t do it, if “moderate” muslims can’t do it, then there’s no-one left to do it but groups like EDL. Because as sure as shit ain’t sugar, the non-muslim liberal-left aren’t opposing fascism from those who mostly have brown skin.

          Hizb ut Tahrir has existed in the UK for almost 30 years. They can get 10000 fascists to a conference, and no-one opposed them. The media are silent about Hizb ut Tahrir (I’ve met rich, powerful members of the Tory party who thought HuT had been banned years ago, misguided because the media are so complicit in not exposing their fascism). No political party will ban them, for fear that there would be an additional 10000 muslim terrorists on the streets of Britain. And now Quilliam say that such fascism has spread across the UK.

        4. I studied degrees at 3 different institutions, and all of those degrees were being taught by those who were followers of one form of cultural marxism or another (specifically, Gramsci and Althusser). Marxism has had a huge impact. However, those who think that marxists like Marcuse and Adorno have had a big impact are IMO mistaken.

          But the problem is not IMO cultural marxism. The problem is with liberalism in the widest sense of the word. A liberal democracy has no means of protecting itself from those who would subvert it, replacing it with some form of totalitarianism (communism, fascism, islam).

          What we are witnessing is the pains of liberal democracy trying to protect itself from having imported millions of muslims, who’s religion/culture does not separate church/state, and who don’t believe in universal human rights, don’t believe in democracy and man-made law.

          We are all going to end up having more and more of our rights taken away, as islam corrupts our liberal democracy.

  38. johnny33308 10 Mar 2013, 5:22pm

    Anyone is free to leave any country that does not conform to their ideas about Bigotry. If Muslims, or christians, or anyone else does not like a free society, then perhaps it is time those particular people think about moving to a country more in keeping with their prehistoric views and ideas, like Iran or maybe Zimbabwe. Good luck to them…..they will most certainly NOT be missed by the civilized people they are leaving. Good Riddance to rubbish.

    1. You can say that about anything though can’t you. You could say that about us before the equal marriage bill is finished with voting. “Anyone is free to move to Spain, or the Netherlands or Belgium or any other country which already has equal marriage, that doesn’t mean we need it here.” The fact is we want it here because we think it’s right for here.

      Sadly we have people like those arranging this meeting who think it’s not right. But they’re as entitled to live here as we are. The tone of debate shouldn’t be, “If you don’t like it you can leave.” It should be, “If you don’t like it you’re wrong because of [insert reasonable, logical arguments of your choice]”. Debate their ignorance, but don’t try to shut down the debate.

      To put it another way – if you moved to India (for whatever reason), it wouldn’t mean you should keep quiet about the levels of sexism there. We’re all grown-ups, we should be able to discuss this stuff without being told to just leave.

  39. Another statistic:- 1 in 5 young offenders in the prison population is Muslim:-

    How does THAT fact sit with the bleeding heart PC apologists?

    Muslims are providing no net benefit for our nation:- many incite violence and hatred against us, rape our kids, drain the welfare system dry and hog our prisons.

    Where is the giving?

    I never thought I’d hear myself say this, but never has Ukip sounded such an attractive proposition.

    From where I’m standing, the prospect of ongoing unfettered immigration leading to all of the above times 3/5/10…whatever far outweighs at this time the fight for equal marriage rights.

    Our very freedom to walk the streets in safety – even our long term survival – are at risk as this problem can only fester and exacerbate unless nipped in the bud.

    Ignore their faux concern for gay rights:- the Lib/Lab/Con Marxist pact is allowing the Islamification of the UK to happen.

    1. If you really are Jewish, you’re betraying your heritage with such disgusting sentiments. And I speak as a Jew.

      1. Classic doublespeak and rank hypocrisy, but why expect anything less when attempting to debate with someone who clearly kneels at the altar of PC?

        As a Jew whose grandparents narrowly escaped Nazi Germany I know all about persecution and victimisation, and from where I am standing it is radical Islam in the UK that is attempting to assert its authority over gay people and persecution against us is increasing accordingly – and will continue to do so – as the Muslim population grows stronger and their voice ever louder.

        Conversely, I am also well aware of the Israeli persecution of the Palestinian people which I steadfastly and actively oppose, because Palestinian Muslims have every right to remain on their own land and practise their own customs – homophobic as they may be – without interference or subversion of their culture from outsiders, rather like we are suffering in the UK.


        1. “but why expect anything less when attempting to debate with someone who clearly kneels at the altar of PC?”

          What does that even mean?!

          1. Yes, I was trying to work that one out myself.

        2. “Touché!”

          And what the hell is that supposed to mean in this context?

    2. Hog our prisons?! Of all the nasty, xenophobic rhetoric I’ve heard levelled against any minority in our country, this is the best.

      “Bloody muslims! Coming over here, taking prison places which should be occupied by honest, decent British criminals!”

      1. So having presented the evidence via no more an esteemed organ that The Guardian, I am a Xenophobe for pointing out a straightforward fact?

        Muslims make up 4.8% of the population yet young Muslims take up 20% of prison spaces?

        “Hog” was not the most appropriate word to use in the heat of the moment but PN does not incorporate an edit facility, but truth is truth no matter what.

        Why are you deluded people so adverse to truth?

        Is it because PC disciples lead such dishonest lives that you find truth too painful to contemplate?

        Unless we confront truth and wake up to the real issues that affect us all -instead of burying our heads in the stand and denying what is happening – we are complicit bystanders and conspirers in our victimisation.

        But then, PC is all about encouraging minorities to perceive themselves as victims, so clearly you are just reacting naturally by libellously tarring the majority on this board as EDL members and sympathisers.

        1. You’re not a xenophobe for pointing out that prison fact. You’re a xenophobe for saying:

          “Muslims are providing no net benefit for our nation:- many incite violence and hatred against us, rape our kids, drain the welfare system dry and hog our prisons.”

          Most muslims don’t actually do any of these things. Where they do there are real issues that we need to tackle like grooming and hatred towards gays and women and we shouldn’t be afraid to point out that these are issues which disproportionately come from some muslims but tarring the whole of the muslim populace with this brush isn’t accurate or helpful, and it is xenophobic.

          Here’s the thing: what’s the reason 20% of young offenders places are occupied by muslims? What crimes are they in for? Are muslim youths of certain backgrounds more susceptible than others? These are serious questions worth researching, but you’re clearly not interested because that would involve some consideration. Easier to write off a whole group of society.

          1. It sounds to me that, post-The-War-On-Terror, Muslim has become the new black.

        2. As I have said repeatedly, all Muslims who maintain a deafening silence, turn a blind eye and refuse to speak out against their radical element or keep them in check are complicit.

          Christians denounce their radical element, heck, we even denounce ours when they get out of hand, and I have no doubt Jews would too if their communities were out of control.

          It is all very well saying all Muslims should not be tarred with the same brush, but they are via their own choosing.

          Even when community leaders to profess to speak out, there are always fabrications thrown in and conditions attached.

          To whit the recent comment piece here on PN by former Tower Hamlets councillor Wais Islam, whose very heading – ‘A Call for Tolelerance Between London’s Muslim and LGBT Communities’ – in itself somehow implied that law-abiding gay people were equal perpetrators in the tensions and unrest aimed squarely in our direction, among other loaded comments.

          1. Plenty of muslims denounce the more radical voices. They are often selectively ignored. In any case, why is it only the job of every moderate muslim to go round looking for as many fundamentalist pieces as they can to speak out against? They have actual lives to live as well. The responsibility for denouncing all forms of bigotry lies with all of us.

            Also, I’ve heard plenty of gay people come out with blanket intolerant statements towards muslims. Yeah but most gay people aren’t like that though are they? But then why aren’t all the supposedly tolerant gays speaking out against the xenophobes eh? Deafening silence, letting ourselves be tarred with the same brush etc. Of course it’s not really like that, and nor is it the case with muslims.

            The problem with a considerable chunk of muslim-queer relations is significant, but neither should resort to blanket prejudice against the other, yet many commenters here have done that while they are rightly outraged when the opposite occurs.

          2. Of course it would be helpful if there were always protests against anything extremist. But as I said, everyone has got lives to lead, why is it only up to moderate muslims to go protesting everywhere that fundamentalists go? It’s up to EVERYONE. The problem we have is that moderates of all colours (including me) don’t always show up and the EDL fill that void with lies, racism and violence.

            As for “No they don’t”:




            In the last link one of the counter-protesters made much your point – why don’t more moderate muslims protest etc.

            I don’t think a lot of people really want to acknowledge any kind of less extreme islam though, they like being able to hate them all without nuance.

          3. ‘“Plenty of muslims denounce the more radical voices. They are often selectively ignored.”

            No they don’t.’

            What? Not even the ones who are members of the EDL? How terrible.

    3. So now the Tories are Marxists? Is this in the same sense that fascists are left-wing?

      Where did you learn political science?

      1. When there is no discernible difference between the three main parties – when one party (ie. New Labour) establishes policy blueprints that the subsequent government (New Tory) follow through to the letter – a game of pass the parcel, if you like – then of course they’re all in it together and singing to the same (in this case Marxist) tune.

        This is now self-evident to most people who engage their brains, as witnessed by the fact that millions of voters in the UK – as in the US – will no longer participate in such a rigged system.

        You are either in abject denial of the blindingly obvious, in an extreme state of cognitive dissonance, or are a part of the system itself that is clinging on for dear life as the ship goes down.

        1. “So now the Tories are Marxists? Is this in the same sense that fascists are left-wing? Where did you learn your political science?”

          As well I suspect you know, Harlequin, all political “isms” – which basically all boil down to the need of unhinged individuals to exert total control – are ultimately rooted in fascism.

          And where did you receive your political conditioning, pray tell?

          1. So all politics is fascism? Fascinating. I must confess that I did not know that. Moreover, I strongly suspect that most other people, including those who professionally study or work in political fields, are also unaware of this astounding fact. Does this even apply to all those political theories one can stick an “ism” onto (such as communism, which dates back to the early 1500s) that existed before 1880?

            My “political conditioning”? I suppose from everywhere I’ve been over the past fifty year? Why? Were you conditioned somewhere prestigious?

        2. Ooh… I get to choose between three alternatives instead of just two! Can I choose the cognitive dissonance, please? It sounds more fun.

  40. The police informed?
    of what exactly?

    That people are campaigning to uphold traditional marriage.

    Honestly !

    The thought police are out in force tonight!

    1. The thought police on this board are directed against anyone who rejects homophobia, but is able to separate the vast majority of Muslims as individuals and Islam as a religion worthy of respect from an extremist fringe. The number of negative votes awarded to any comment pointing this out is revelatory in this respect.

      1. That is correct, Al, just as your cheer leading and apologist ramblings for radical Muslims is even more so revelatory.


        For the very fact that your mindset is of the same ilk that covers up paedophilia and other abuses and misdemeanours within the Muslim community because your PC sensitivity code of (ahem) “ethics” forbids you being seen to expose any type of behaviour that may portray Muslims as anything other than downtrodden, put upon victims in need of our sympathy and understanding.

        Sickening, despicable and treacherous in equal parts.

        1. I don’t support ‘radical’ anything, but I DO support the right of minorities to practise their well-established religion in peace. Get over it, and do stop the whole ‘PC’ blah, it’s a little tiresome and predictable. I don’t work for the police ;-)

          1. “Practise their well-established religion in peace”?

            In PEACE?!!

            We would all prefer that the Muslim community collectively practised their religion in peace.

            But is exactly the point of this debate:- because they DON’T.

            Now I know that you are not only seriously deluded:- you just don’t bother to pay one iota attention beyond the policing of “sensitivity breaches”!

  41. Words cannot express my utter contempt for these arrogant little parasites. This is NOT a Muslim country, and these persons are guests here at best. You have no right to express your bigoted hateful views here. Get out and return to the place you belong, for you do not belong here.

    1. Even the ones born here?

    2. why dont they have the right though? you have the right to call them arrogent little parosites after all

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