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UKIP local deputy chair resigns over party’s ‘shift’ towards opposing equal marriage

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  1. So, all that libertarian stuff turned out to be crap? Who knew? (pretty much everyone, actually). Welcome to politics, numbnuts.

  2. Robert in S. Kensington 6 Mar 2013, 3:59pm

    Good for you, Arnie. Let’s hope more younger UKIP members follow suit.

    The UKIP pretend to be libertarian wanting less government but it just isn’t true. In America, the Libertarian Party supports equal marriage. UKIP are no better than the BNP.

  3. I have met Arnie and while I am not a member of UKIP he gave a very ‘kind’ face to UKIP so to speak, one it is clear now they did not deserve. But thanks to him I did consider voting them and telling others about them, from now on no longer.

    From my humble POV this is a huge loss to UKIP, Arnie was an incredibly hard working chap who brought in a lot of support and members. It is sad that UKIP have embraced aggressive social conservatism and so are pushing out the young forward thinking members like Arnie and the others that have left over Equal Marriage, just to get a few more points in a few meaningless opinion polls.

    It is a shame that they have turned into a party of hate when actually they at one point looked fairly promising

  4. Great the he’s left. Good for him. Left wondering what he thought he’d joined. He’s young. Don’t intend to patronise him and hope that he can rechannel his obvious political commitment.

  5. UKIP is a nationalist party, Arnie. Nationalism and liberalism don’t really go together.

    1. The EU is ultra nationalist and anti-democratic.

      1. And Nigel Farage and the UKIP party are homophobic bigots.

    2. Spanner1960 7 Mar 2013, 12:52am

      What utter cobblers.
      One can still be centrist and politically liberal whilst still being patriotic and caring for it’s own first.

      1. Patriotism is not nationalism, but what I said needs some qualification. UKIP’s brand of it is pretty insular little-Englanderism and this involves exalting reactionary nostalgic cultural stereotypes associated with the ‘nation’ and which inevitably means maintaining excluding attitudes to historically stigmatised groups.

  6. Utterly disgraceful that the party leaders sack anyone that displays a libertarian view, yet don’t sack anyone with a fascist view of gay people. The party claims to be libertarian, but obviously that is a lie.

    As Robert in S. Kensington has stated above, UKIP is no better than the BNP. Worryingly, the party leadership has managed to lure many people into voting for them.

    Underneath Nigel Farage’s ‘cheery-chappy’ exterior obviously lies a very authoritarian and dangerous would-be dictator.

  7. I heard one of their supporters say he was “opposed to homosexuality” on the BBC Radio 4 Any Answers programme last week!

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 6 Mar 2013, 4:58pm

      No surprise there is it? Who else but the BBC would air such a thing?

      1. Harlequin 6 Mar 2013, 7:58pm

        You can hear Benjamin Cohen’s Lent Talks programme on BBC Radio 4 tonight, Wednesday 6 March, at 8:45 pm.

    2. That reminds me of the last Northern Ireland Assembly election when a DUP elected representative was canvassing for votes. When my partner asked her (just to see what the answer would be, even though we’re aware just how anti-gay the party is) what the party’s view is of gay people, she responded “we would be opposed to that”! Another elected representative yelled that we’re the “lowest common denominator” when we asked at a previous election what his view of Civil Partnerships was.

      Fortunately for everyone in the UK, UKIP and the BNP do not have MPs. The DUP is the leading governing party in Northern Ireland and it could be considered even worse than UKIP because its policies are devised from a hard-line Christian fundamentalist perspective. It currently has 8 MPs at Westminster.

      Some people are just so bigoted that they’re off the Richter scale and yet there is a part of the UK where such people have power.

  8. Good for you Arnie. Taking a stance on principle can only be good for your political career in the long term.

  9. UKIP are a tolerated version of the EDL and BNP.

    I personally think there are problems with immigration and the EU, but so do labour, lib dems and tories – you don’t need a new party to deal with those issues, because that’s all UKIP care about, just like the EDL and BNP.

    1. Spanner1960 7 Mar 2013, 12:48am

      Yes, but the Tories, LibDems and Labour have had close to 20 years to sort the matter out and done Sweet Fanny Adams., so people have turned to others such as UKIP and BNP out of total desperation. if the old parties are unwilling to accept the elephant in the room, then it is time for new parties to take the reins.

  10. agreeornot 6 Mar 2013, 5:08pm

    She 100% Lesbian?

  11. UKIP is becoming the new BNP.

    1. Yes. In fact I would say that UKIP has always been an “acceptable” form of the BNP.

  12. Makes me wonder what that irrepressible crusader against all things religious (especially muslim) Pat Condell thinks, given the fact he went on record supporting UKIP a while ago. He might not mind sharing a party with racists, but he can’t be too happy with them reinventing themselves as an anti-gay, Christian activist party.

  13. Good news.

    If the younger members of UKIP start deserting the party en masse (to be replaced by Tory bigots) then the age profile of UKIP will be such, that it will become the graveyard of British politics – full of relics from the past.

  14. It’s a pity these supposedly highly principled ex ukip people don’t explain exactly why they left the party. In no case that I know about were they sacked from a post or ‘forced to resign’ simply because of their ‘supporting equal marriage’.

    1. Nigel Farage is on record as opposing equal marriage.

      He is a disgrace to the human race thanks to his homophobia.

      UKIP hates the LGBT community.

      Anyone who opposes equal marriage laws for any reason is a poisonous bigot.

      Opposing access to a civil contract because someone is gay is 100% unjustifiable.

      No LGBT person in their right mind can support an apartheid party like UKIP

      1. Robert in S. Kensington 6 Mar 2013, 6:53pm

        Totally concur!

    2. And can you explain Olly Neville’s removal from the party.

      Do you condemn Nigel Farage’s homophobic bigotry?

      1. Spanner1960 7 Mar 2013, 1:04am

        Yes. The bloke shot his mouth off and didn’t toe the party line.
        He was a loose cannon.
        This wasn’t about homophobia, it was about disobeying those above you.

  15. ColinJones 6 Mar 2013, 6:12pm

    I can’t understand any gay person being anti Europe, it was the European Court of Human Rights that forced the UK government to allow gay people to join the British army for example.The ECHR is the best defender of gay rights.Some Tories are already talking about leaving it.I wouldn’t trust British politicians any further than I could throw them.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 6 Mar 2013, 6:52pm

      I don’t even think if a re-negotiation of the terms is accepted and a referendum is held the UK will be leaving. The EU needs the UK as much as the UK needs the EU. In terms of the disastrous economic effects it would have on British business and employment, I don’t think it’s going to happen. The last thing the Tory government wants are major businesses not supporting them. The EU is the largest trade zone for British companies doing business.

      1. Considering the size and wealth of the EU as a whole I think it’s more a case of the UK needing the EU more than the EU needing Britain.

        Britain is the 3rd largest economy in the EU (after Germany and France).

        If Britain leaves then Germany and France would quite likely start a peaceful trade war with Britain, competing for trade directly with the UK in a manner they don’t really do at the moment. Owing to the size of the EU market, I can’t imagine Britain winning that trade war.

    2. Oh – but the ECHR is just the EU trying to control our laws.

      Wait a minute.

      The EU does not control the ECHR.

      Does that mean that UKIP likes the ECHR.

      Of course not – UKIP is a racist, xenophobic, homophobic party which is merely the ‘respectable’ face of the BNP.

      And that bigot Nigel Farage represents all that is ugly and incoherent about Britain. He’s a real Little Britainner

      1. Spanner1960 7 Mar 2013, 1:01am

        No, I would say quite the opposite: He is a Great Britain-er.
        While I have some misgivings about the man, I still think he has more spine than all the other parties combined.

        UKIP is the only party that is showing what a dire condition this country is in due to the dual attack of an open-door immigration policy combined with the constant kowtowing and cap-doffing to Brussels whilst the rest of Europe sticks two fingers up at the EU and does their own thing regardless. AND we pay £50m a DAY for the privilege!

        If caring about my own country means PC pinkos like you call me racist and xenophobic, than I will admit that label and say I am a gay man that is proud of his sexuality and his country.

  16. UKIP supports Britain leaving the EU.

    Which is an opinion.

    What does UKIP plan to do with all those British retirees and others forced to return home after they lose their residency on the continent?

    1. They probably form a large percentage of UKIP’s voters, after all they retired to Spain to get away from all the foreigners taking over Blighty!

    2. Spanner1960 7 Mar 2013, 12:36am

      Who says they will lose residency?
      They simply have to apply for a visa like every other non-Euro immigrant.

      1. Rubbish. British retirees will be booted out of Europe if Britain leaves the Eu. Spain or France won’t allow freeloaders who pay no tax to keep spobging off their healthcare systemm

        What is Ukips plan for these millions of returning retirees?

  17. Arnie Craven is a man with guts who is unafraid to take a stand, despite earning the contempt of UKIP colleagues. Well done!

  18. Wouldn’t the heroic position been to have argued the case for SS marriage within UKIP? UKIP’s core argument is that churches will be forced to conduct SS marriages once the European courts get involved. There’s talk of the freedom to have SS marriage, but what about other people’s freedom?

    1. “UKIP’s core argument is that churches will be forced to conduct SS marriages”.

      That’s not an “argument”, it’s a “lie”. It might be a sincerely held opinion of their, but it’s factually inaccurate and has zero substance to support it.

      1. Time will tell.

        It’s certainly not a lie. If you don’t like the word argument for some reason, an alternative would be a contention (based on prior experience in many other areas of law).

        1. Tell me NO2EU – what does UKIP plan to do with the millions of British people who will be forced back to Britain when Britain leaves the EU.

          Many Britons retire to Meditteranean climes, How does UKIP plan to finance the healthcare of these millions of older people.,

          UKIP NEVER talks about that.

          I wonder why?

          1. Many Britons moved to Spain well before Spain was in the EU. Spain wanted them bringing their money in – same applies now at a guess, EU or no EU.

          2. And many, many more people moved to Spain AFTER Spain joined the EU.

            And millions more moved to France; Greece; Portugal; Cyprus; Malta; Ireland.

            Those people will have to return to Britain once Britain theoretically leaves the EU as they will lose residency of those countries.

            Who is going to pay for their healthcare?

            And who is going to reimburse them the cost of their homes in Europe which they lose once they are no longer allowed to reside in the EU?

            What is the UKIP policy on this?

        2. Spanner1960 7 Mar 2013, 12:40am

          Sorry, but I am adamantly anti-EU, but pro SSM, and this bizarre notion that churches will be forced to conduct gay marriages is simply disinformation spread about by C4M and the likes with no foundation whatsoever.

          Numerous European countries have pushed through SSM, and the EU has patently steered clear of any conflict and has specifically stated it will not get involved in religious matters.

          So far NOBODY has challenged the EU to do otherwise.

    2. Official UKIP policy is opposition to same sex marriage.

      Olly Neville was sacked from UKIP for supporting same sex marriage.

      There is no place within UKIP for anyone who supports equality.

      The only course of action for people within UKIP who support equality for LGBT people is to leave the party.

      It really is that simple.

      1. Neville was sacked from being Young Independence chairman because he chose to voice a series of disagreements with the party when given a unique opportunity to speak for the party on national radio. That was alongside other public statements he was making, such as supporting bestiality and necrophilia. No credible organisation could have let him continue in that way.

        1. But UKIP is not a credible organisation.

          Official UKIP policy is to oppose equal civil rights (which is what marriage is) to the gay community.

          UKIP is therefore a party of extremist homophobic bigotry.

          Because I know you’re not stupid enough to pretend that there is ANY valid reason to oppose marriage equality.

          (Although seeing as you are a member of UKIP I reckon you’ll try).

          Tell me NO2EU – do you condemn the homophobic bigotry of Nigel Farage for his opposition to marriage equality?

        2. Spanner1960 7 Mar 2013, 12:41am

          Anybody supporting bestiality and necrophilia is flogging a dead horse.

          Sorry, I’ll get my coat.

    3. And tell us NO2EU – do you think the proponents of same sex marriage will be as successful in the European courts, as those groups who have taken cases to the European courts to force catholic churches to perform marriages for divorced people.

      Or how about how christian churches discriminate against muslims by refusing to ONLY marry christians in them? How successful have those cases been?

      I mean you do realise that no European court has EVER forced a church to marry anyone.

      Or are you spouting the usual hate-filled, xenophobic drivel of the gay-hating UKIP party?

      1. ‘Hate-filled? Me?

        1. well through its official policy of homophobic bigotry (namely opposing equal civil marriage rights for the gay community) UKIP has declared itself a party of homophobic bigotry.

          Ergo if you support UKIP you support homophobic bigotry.

          Only a very stupid gay person would want anything to do with a homophobic party like UKIP.

          UKIP believes that gay people are 2nd class citizens after all.

        2. And NO2EU – you still haven’t answered my question about the European courts ‘forcing’ churches to perform same sex marriages.

          You do accept that the European courts have never forced any church to marry anyone, don’t you (unless you can show me some case history of the European courts forcing catholic churches to marry divorced people; or the Church of England being forced to marry muslims?)

      2. No email received (?)

  19. Spanner1960 7 Mar 2013, 12:34am

    “Shift”?
    Sorry, but I was always a UKIP supporter until they showed their true colours over same sex marriage, and that was at least 18 months ago. This is not like something that just popped out of the woodwork.

  20. T.K. Tidswell 7 Mar 2013, 3:03pm

    This young man shows all the fatuous stupidity of the young. It is not possible to have “equality”. Marriage is “an Estate” between one man and one woman. Two men cannot marry and no amount of legislation can change that. Men have the legal equivalent already, the Civil Contract. Calling two men “married” is to debase the premise of marriage and all those who are or were married. It isn’t a matter of equality – that can be achieved by surgery on both parties!

    1. Unintelligent trolling nonsense. Heterosexual monogamous marriage is an arrangement, not a block of stone. Social and historical constructs can and do change all the time. You are just a bigot who doesn’t like the idea. Tough.

    2. I assume from the vitriolic sentiment of your post that you are old and hateful. Soon two men will be able to marry and that is exactly because of legislation. Luckily, you won’t have to recognise it personally as marriage… but neither will anyone have to recognise yours, should some poor woman have the terrible misfortune of being your wife. The fact that you suggest that a man who wants to marry another man should consider major surgery only serves to exemplify your ignorance.

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