The fact that he has been accused by four different priests doesn’t look good for him. But isn’t it always the case that those who shout out the most and condemn gays are usually gay self-loathers. Catholic hypocricy at its worst.
The first allegation dates back to 1980. Scotland didn’t decriminalise homosexual acts between consenting adult males until 1981.
Does anyone know what O’Brien said about this at the time? Just wondering…
Just what I was thinking. It is the police that should be investigating this not the nuncio. Having gay sex with a 20 year old was illegal in 1980 wasn’t it?
Absolutely! The police in Scotland must investigate this man, and the allegations that he and some of his priests had close links to the “charitable works” of Jimmy Savile!
If he had a consensual gay relationship in 1980, perhaps he should be made to have the humility of facing a trial as it would have been in 1980, getting a criminal record and then he can apply to have the record removed as a historic offence which is now legal.
That’s right, DCBrighton. Sexual Harassment laws surely hold for these alleged instances. And if they can be invoked, then they MUST be!
Will be interesting to know, when it comes out, what ‘inappropriate acts’ mean. Specifically, ‘inappropriate’ in the eyes of the church in which case who cares. But ‘inappropriate’ in the eyes of the law, police time.
The police should not be investigating anyone, anywhere in the United Kingdom, for conducting homosexual relationships while they were adults.
They should be pardoning them.
I’m sorry, but Cardinal O’Brien may be a sanctimonious hypocrite who needs to be taken down a peg or two, but I can’t believe people on a gay site are suggesting he be investigated by police for making homosexual advices towards a twenty year old. Whether it happened in 1980 or 1880, the law was changed for a good reason.
I agree completely. I was being a bit facetious, however it seems these allegations are more to do with sexual harassment than consensual relations.
fauxtronic, we’re not talking about O’Brien having consensual sex or a consensual relationship with these priests – he was in a position of power over these much younger men and allegedly sexually abused them against their will. All it says is “inappropriate acts” so we don’t know exctly what happened, but it could have been anything from groping to rape. Surely you’d agree that’s a matter for the police?
According to the allegations the behaviour whatever it was, was not consensual.
The only shame is that these allegations didn’t surface earlier, in time to stop the tidal wave of bollocks O’Brien came out with over the past year or so.
Not so sure about that – if, and when, these allegations are proven, thanks to O’Brien’s vociferous bigotry in the past I wonder if any other bigots will dare open their mouths in the future for fear of being accused of closet-cases (which they probably are)?…..This may be a watershed event for everyone…
Condemnation rather than celebration is perhaps better here. If these rumours are true, then at least three men may have had horrific experiences and been seriously badly treated by this Cardinal and perhaps the church.
Again, if true, this displays serious problems within the church — the problem with priests, bishops and the Vatican’s lack of transparency.
The fact that so many people believe this or consider it likely to be true, the full evidence not having yet been revealed, shows the depths to which the Church has fallen. New leadership is needed.
It’s delicious news, and great cause for immediate celebration amongst all of us whom this individual has spent years persecuting.
However, more important, and most important, is that this man be tried and then, if guilty, punished!
He has caused immeasurable suffering to 1000s and 1000s of LGBTs young and old, both within his “flock”, and in the wider Xian and non-believing world.
On behalf of the 10,000 girls whom the Catholic priests of Ireland incarcerated in the Magdalen Laundries, and on behalf of the 1000s of young children whom Catholic priests, brothers, and nuns worldwide have sexually abused and assaulted over the centuries, representatives are now DEMANDING justice. And they are demanding COMPENSATION!
O’Brien appears to have sexually abused young men. He must face civil justice.
I urge EVERYONE who has suffered at the hands of religious persons to call their police, to form a group, to be strong together, and to demand justice, punishment, and compensation.
Have just read on the BBC that Mr. O’Brien has not had the guts this morning to face his congregation of “the faithful” at Sunday morning Mass!
Bring him to justice! And if guilty, punish him!
For a man of his age he’s very good-looking! He must have been “fit” when he was young and dark-haired! He must have turned many a head AND been aware of it, . . . and he seems to have used his allure!
Well, you may not LIKE the idea that Fr Keith O’Brien was a good-looker, but I bet if someone can produce a photograph of him back then you’ll find that it’s true!
Who cares if he was the hottest man on the planet? His ugliness oozes out from the inside.
Can’t be sure, but think this might be an old photo of him:
Very funny! :-)
But I do find it odd that people in this thread don’t appear to be rational enough to be able to accommodate both loathing of this detestable man and acknowledgement that he was most probably a looker when young! If I can manage it, why can’t others? I mean, I’m an a self-acknowledged hysteric! Can it be that today others on here are so carried away with hysterical spite towards O’Brien that they can’t attribute ANYTHING positive to the man?
I just don’t think people here are too interested in his appearance in his younger days in light of the revelations today particularly with his position on gay equality in recent years.
It’s quite an interesting thought, that perhaps he was a handsome man in his younger days and used his looks to seduce men, but perhaps not the best time for that speculation.
Hysterical Screamer, I think people don’t like that you’re trivialising a serious matter by talking about his looks, rather than being irrational and unable to attribute anything positive to O’Brien, as you suggest.
If he really did abuse these young men, then whether he was good looking or not is irrelevent. It doesn’t make being abused any better if the abuser happens to be attractive.
If it turns out to be true this would have to be one of the greatest cases of just desserts ever given some the disgusting bs this scumbag has come out with against us.
Absolutely, and can someone please tell me how we are supposed to not revel in the misery of others (one other in particular) at this precise moment.
I’m just off down the shed to find those knocked off fireworks I’ve been hoarding since I came back from Mexico that I was saving til the Pope died.
Karma is a bitch for the hypocrite. I’m also thinking homophobe nadine dorries being investigated again for false expenses( previously being charged and having to pay back money) and the harrow bigot mp blackman who cheated on his wife for years but was anti equal marriage.
This MF should be turned into a girl. And put in a mans prison.
Amazing how many good things are happening now. Even turkey afirmds gays are normal. Germany, italy and Austria courts afirm gays make good parents
Yes there well may be a god – who has defeated the xtian god satan.
If I was a farmer I’d have a bull roast – First I’d brand the bull with two names
RATZInger and Obrien
And make up for the horrible time way back when mankind ran out of lions before it ran out of xtians in the roman circus.
And I’d feed the cooked remains of the bull to the lions in the zoo and the homeless dogs in the dog pound
Karma ! :-)
This guy represent the filthy dirty antics of a hierarchy which has abandoned it communion and does not give one fiddlers f**k for all those poor people who put their faith in them., not to mention the damage he has done to the LGBT community
He should be thrown to the lions. Bring it on.
If these allegations are true, then, as he is a believer in tradition he is presumably maintaining the nauseating and familiar traditions of the closeted homophobe
Oh dear, what a pity, so sad. coff splutter….. Couldn’t happen to a nicer fella in fact. The Scottish Sunday papers might be worth a read tomorrow for a change :-)
The Roman Catholic Church speaks with such great moral authority NOT. This self-loathing bigot has blood on his hands.
Don’t you mean wotsit on his doo-dah…
I hope they also go to the police rather than just the vatican so he will have to face the law of the land and not just whatever pathetic punishment the vatican will think up, after all their usual response is a game of musical chairs.
Just a thought . Look what happened when someone was brave enough to go public about Saville (the squeaky clean Papal Knight) and the torrent that was unleashed. They may well have a problem covering this one up.
I realise that this can’t be hushed up by the vatican now it’s already out there. What I was trying to say is that if these allegations are true, then he has to face the law and not just be dealt with by the church, which is usually what happens in these cases.
Perhaps he and the Pope will hold up in the Vatican till the end times, as fugitives from the law.
If you see him going through customs with an unusually large amount of luggage and the ticket is booked one-way then you’ll know he’s fleeing before the rozzers nick him :)
There’s a saying in my country: “Thief yells catch a thief.”
I wonder if his recent statements about priests being able to marry and father children might be related in some way?
Yes, he would have known of the allegations and that they were going to go public, so perhaps he was trying to present himself as someone who is quite “liberal” really? In an attempt recreate himself as a not so hateful hard liner after all. A self serving PR stunt is what I am trying to suggest?
If memory serves there is some stuff in the Bible (Deuteronomy) about a victim having to marry their rapist.
The UK’s most homophobic priest is a closet homosexual who’s been caught with his pants down! You just couldn’t make it up…
…. if you read it in the papers you wouldn’t believe it …..
If a story had come out saying that he had fathered one or more children, now that would have been shocking enough, but this was an earthquake. The Walls of Jericho came tumbling down.
btw, Nice to see the BBC isn’t ignoring the story on its BBC News broadcasts.
Yep typical of the BBC to show homphobia on Christmas day as some kind of trophy but leave this kind of real news out.
Radio 4 has headlined it on the news all day…
I bet, just like all the child abuse, it never happened….
They really are vile people (Not all Catholics, the extremists!)
I should have put it as “Never happened” … thing is they all know we know it’s happened will continue to happen for as long as they see fit to continuously cover it up!
Yeah, who knew?!! lol
Typical, thinks hiding it by being such a vile homophobe would protect him.
Justice and karma prevails me thinks…..
Oh the irony, oh the hypocrite!
Should have read the article more clearly. So he’s been quite friendly with his fellow friars? He’s not the first man with a same sex attraction to be a self loathing venomous homophobe. Probably won’t be the last – time to look Vaticanward, perhaps? You never know….
I think people have been and have uncovered a lot more of the same.
Here’s a list of 228 accused clerics, nuns and staff – [updated]
— Added: — Bro. Stephen Baker, TOR, — Fr. Martin A. Brady, TOR (Franciscan friar);
Minnesota Child Victims Act
Well why are we not surprised?
Well, well, well! I’m sure there are plenty of metaphorical phrases to describe this.
Unfortunately the Catholic Church will probably blame gay people for this. I wouldn’t be surprised if we or homosexuality will be seen as the ‘problem’ or ’cause’.
If it turns out to be true, then what else has he lied about?
Goes without saying really. It’s always be everyone elses fault not the person caught out. That’s the religious way.
So how he’ll get away with his hypocrisy.
Since we’ve seen senior clergy claiming that priests have been “seduced” by their rape victims (of both sexes), expect something similar in terms of defence and/or denial.
I hope this will encourage others to have the integrity to expose others who have spoken out so fervently against equality.
Yes, let’s start by exposing those who signed the letter to the Telegraph – I know at least 12 active gays on the list.e
Sure seems like when four come forward there is a pattern – a pattern that includes more than just these four victims. I wonder how many are out there who have not yet come forward or won’t come forward.
Perhaps whatever authority he has to travel should be revoked until the matter is investigated and resolved.
He will have a Vatican passport which will allow him to travel.
Will this make us ponder a little bit more about why the Pope decided to resign?
Ann Widdecombe will be chocking on her dentures. We might get lucky – she could be having a coronary!
The Vatican’s “gay lobby”?
What the hell were they lobbying for? From the record they couldn’t have been less effective!
This has to be the best piece of news of the week. First the pope resigning, then this dog over here . Can it get any better?? Let’s wait and hope :-)
…more Anti-Catholic drivel and lies form Pink News (whose Anti-Catholicism is comparable to the KKK) .
Interesting the Anti-Catholic Guardian has waited with these lies (probably concocted by homosexuals) until the conclave is about to begin and after the Cardinal’s unwise words to the BBC – very timely ! .Coincidence – Nah ! They did the same thing just as the Pope was visiting these backward shores .Nothing new .
I bet it hurts Ray. Anyway, have you not got anything better to do on a Saturday evening/Sunday morning (UK time) than post on the *PINK* News????? Perhaps there’s something you’d like to share with us Ray? Are you another homophobic closet case, Ray??? Is that why you want to defend Cardinal O’Bigot, Ray?
Really??? Pink News comparable to the KKK??? Oh… what about the BBC??? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21563345
…and let’s not forget that it is Catholic PRIESTS who have made these allegations… Not Pink News? Pink News is merely REPORTING the filth in your ‘church’.
“Cardinal Roger Mahony has been accused of helping priests suspected of sexual abuse to escape detection.”
Oh really? proves my point below think!
Don’t worry, Mahony has forgiven people who were angry with him.
They really are a disgusting bunch of …. people? Calling them people makes them sounds civilised and we know these bastards aren’t anything but!
You can hardly expect anyone on the comments pages to be friendly towards the Catholic church when it’s very reason for being seems to be to persecute us, spread lies, denomise people, try to impose Catholic doctrine on every person in the UK and pours millions in to lobby against our rights. Extremist homophobia by the church isn’t going to win then friend here.
On another point, Pinknews simply report the news, we comment, direct your comments to us. But I would question why you come here and intentionally insult and harass us – you do know your posting history could well be used against you one day.
For now, people will continually mark your comments down and they will, as always, then disappear from sight. You really are wasting your time – but I suspect you’re actually just lonely and baiting people and trolling brings you some brief respite and comfort – your posts are attention-seeking, and do indicate you need to get out more, and find a more productive hobby.
Not sure what it is you got up to at that Catholic school you went to Ray, but it obviously didn’t involve learning to check facts or think logically….These ‘anti-Catholic lies’ as you call them are formal accusations made in writing directly to the Papal Nuncio by four current or ex Catholic priests. The good Cardinal is ‘taking legal advice’ – so it won’t be long before the ‘lies’ are exposed – or not……Do come back when the truth is revealed:-)
Ray, I understand your great difficulty at this time. For you and for others who have believed in all the words uttered from Catholic pulpits, as well as from Xian and Muslim pulpits, this must be a time of great mental disturbance. You are being presented with the awful incomprehensible hideousness of religion, when all along you have placed your faith in them. But, Ray, don’t think you’re alone. Many of us have been where are you now, gone through the shock, gone through the disappointment, but then bravely ditched religion and all its nonsense and made something far better and certainly far more rational of our lives as a result. Be brave. This is YOUR moment! :-)
There you go… proof that these people who rather deny and deceive than face the truth.
It’s why religion cannot be trusted. It’s hardly in the best interests of humanity.
Religion is more about lies, deception and hatred than anything it thinks is good, correction I think they think lies, deception and hatred are good. Well it suits them anyway.
It’s what I’ve been saying all along. Obviously, he wasn’t looking for the companionship of a woman was he?
What I don’t understand is, why now doe these priests and former priest come forward years later? If this is true and probably is, isn’t there a statute of limitation for prosecution?
Be sure to breath out again!! :-D
I knew I was right to dump the ckuffin lot when I was an 18 year-old seminarian – as I told you before – and probably bored your brains with it, hahahah..!
Well we were both right, weren’t we, to dump the lot.
And THEY wanted ME to have electrics wired around my head to cure me of this “serious sickness”…
A toute a l’heure, mon p’tit choux.
SALFORD …actually thinking of going to Mass this morning for the first time in 52 years to gloat.
To count the number of bums on pews and gloat
This I do not buy! Very much an egineered story which I was half expecting,Tatchell and co have been out to get him,and it’s got his,and cohorts name all over it! Anti catholic rhetoric alright.
In denial, much?
Difficult time for you, Petroski, and also for Ray (see above), and for 1000s of Catholics who have been devoted to the “spiritual guidance” dished out by this man.
Just accept the evidence. And bear in mind this is not the first such incident. There have been literally 1000s of them. Remember the 10,000 girls incarcerated by priests in the laundries of Ireland. Remember the countless number of children, male and female, who have been sexually assaulted and/or abused by members of Catholic orders all over the world.
The Internet has not only brought about the “Springs” of the Arab world, but it is also exposing the reality of religions. The religions’ leaders can no longer keep a lid on truth, they can no longer keep truth hidden.
Of course petroski, you’d rather cover up sexual abuse like Catholics do. You clearly prefer child abuse to be covered up too yeah?
Your a disgusting excuse of a human being, just like the abusers you clearly support!
Poor Petroski. The fetid stench of desperation.
so if it’s a duplicate why is there not one post up? Do I have to prove I’m gay first? Where are my posts? I demand equality.
Patience is a virtue
We demand they up your meds and then you have a nice long sleep.
Have you been sectioned yet?
Calm down dear, and look up the column just a little.
The vilest bigotted homophobe of them all is gay, why am I not surprised?
Wasn’t it a criminal offence back in 1980 to have it away with a “20-year-old seminarian” ?
Coming straight after his declaration in favour of married priests, it smells of a set up to discredit him, but frankly I don’t care. Talk about what goes around comes around!
I don’t think the word “set up” ought to be applied to the exposing of a hypocrite, Ben. A “set up” has connotations of malign design about it. But exposure of hypocrisy and sexual abuse carried out by a person of authority is simply justice.
I was thinking of the Vatican wanting to discredit him rather than The ‘gay guardian’ or ‘pink lobby’ or whatever it was the trolls were on about, of course. Maybe I’ve read too many Dan Brown novels and seeing conspiracies around the corner!
I was thinking of the Vatican wanting to discredit him rather than The ‘gay guardian’ or ‘pink lobby’ or whatever it was the trolls were on about, of course. Maybe I’ve read too many Dan Brown novels and seeing conspiracies where there aren’t any!!!
Ah, I see! The Vatican setting him up, rather than rightfully disgruntled men he touched up 30 years ago. Nice inventive mind you have there, Ben!
‘…I think the Vatican has enough trouble to be going on with rather that set up conspiracies…. You discredit his victims by such discourse….
‘…I think the Vatican has enough trouble to be going on with rather than to set up conspiracies…. You discredit his victims by such discourse….
so the pope is retiring next week and cardinal o’brien is retiring next month…
I think my irony meter just exploded!
My bottle of karma just shattered!!!
What a pathetic coward Keith O’Brian is.
Horribly homophobic all his life….and it turns out that he likes having relationships with men.
You couldn’t write it!
Another ‘gay homophobe’ who is so ashamed about his sexuality. Visit http://gayhomophobe.com to see more people like him.
Seminarians beware those visits by Keith O’Brien under the premise of night prayers…
“On your knees.”
Perhaps this is what is behind his recent statement about priests being able to marry.
And next, is ….
And that’s what this whole Roman song and dance is about.
The only British Cardinal to be voting for a new pontiff, and about to retire in 1 month.
Keep your friends close and enemy closer!
Some one clearly didn’t want him to be in Rome to vote, or retire in glory. One wonders how many long they were waiting, counting down to denounce him in his perceived moment of glory and crumble his fundamental foundation. What goes around comes around!
Oh dear…this wouldn’t by any chance be the same Cardinal O’Brien who spent £150k on fighting SSM in Scotland, and who said “the introduction of Civil Partnerships had been a mistake, arguing the law should never ‘facilitate’ same-sex relationships; “These measures were not in the best interests of our society. The empirical evidence is clear, same-sex relationships are demonstrably harmful to the medical, emotional and spiritual wellbeing of those involved, no compassionate society should ever enact legislation to facilitate or promote such relationships, we have failed those who struggle with same-sex attraction.”…would it?…I think it might be…:-) http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/07/08/scotland-catholic-church-declares-war-on-gay-marriage/
Well, he’s sort of right: the same-sex ‘relationships’ he’s been involved in would appear to have caused considerable harm. And hopefully will cause him a lot more harm before this saga concludes.
This really shouldn’t ‘be a surprise for people with an understanding of either religiosity or the nature of bigotry. O’Brien does however help prove either the indifference or non existence of God,
Thought for the day.
Abstinence makes the church grow fondlers
Bryan: hope you dn’t mind but I am borrowing that last line :-) :-)
Please do, to be honest it is not my creation, however I was very proud to have a large banner made with the phrase for the papal visit a couple of years ago, it was in Vatican colours and every ‘pilgrim’ that read it looked like they had just been slapped in the face with a wet fish when the penny dropped. Spread the words.
karma a wonderful force.
I have never seen so much gloating in my life!
I hope you don’t mind if I join in.
I guarantee there is a scandal behind Ratzinger’s hasty exit. Something of the same kind, I shouldn’t wonder.
I blame those young priests. They shouldn’t have been so young and cute and so darn juicy. Attractive young men are the downfall of etc. etc.
I blame those priests. They shouldn’t have been so young and cute and so darn juicy. Attractive young men will be the downfall of innocent older etc etc etc
The Catholic Church in particular, with its sordid record of physical and sexual abuse, is wary of any form of public accountability.
All religious institutions are bogus and thus all of them fear public accountability and transparency, for those qualities would render them ridiculous and powerless.
it almost makes me believe that there is a God.
Well quel surprise – NOT!
But then, there are those who argue that Hitler was sexually attracted to men and half Jewish.
History chronicles that Internalised self-loathing, manifest as sociopathy and psychopathy and projected externally is humanity’s ultimate force of destruction.
And it is these mindsets who seek to control others that manipulate their way into seats of ultimate power – religion and politics – whose self-serving decisions affect us all.
Well my day has just been made :)))))))
Just youthful experimentation :-)
Who’s to say that O’Brien wasn’t entirely sincere and consistent in his horror at the very thought of same sex marriage.
It’s quite possible that he believes that gay marriage is indeed a harmful and backward step, denying you the freedom to harass and grope 20 year old subordinates which is what he seems to think that same sex attraction all about…
This is like delicious cottoncandy at the fair. Manna from heaven.
If there was actually god, I’d sacrifice a 40 virgins to give thank you for that gift.
Westbroro Widdecombe needs a diaper change.
Mail on Sunday has a nice insert covering his past sayings;
In March 2012 O’Brien wrote of his concerns over same-sex marriage in Scotland in The Daily Telegraph.
He said the proposal represents a ‘grotesque subversion of a universally accepted human right’.
‘Same-sex marriage would eliminate entirely in law the basic idea of a mother and a father for every child,’ he added.
‘It would create a society which deliberately chooses to deprive a child of either a mother or a father.’
He also opposed the introduction of civil partnerships, saying he believes that ‘such relationships are harmful to the physical, mental and spiritual well-being of those involved’.
After he was awarded the ‘Bigot of the Year’ award, Stonewall Scotland director Colin Macfarlane said: ‘In the past year the cardinal has likened the campaign for same-sex marriage to slavery, he has called it grotesque.’
Oh this is typical!
They always get found out and Yes he should resign. What a disgrace.
To continuously show such homophobia then secretly do this…. bloody hypocrite.
What excuse will he come out with? No doubt we’ll be to blame not him.
What a vile disgusting man that proves more and more religion is just hypocrisy.
Again, if true, this displays serious problems within the church – the problem with priests, bishops and the Vatican’s lack of transparency.
I think if three current priests and a former priest have come forward and are all saying the same thing, it deserved to be taken seriously, and we know full well the likelihood of it being more is very high. I’d be surprised if a few more didn’t also now come forward. There is a huge amount of hostility to the Catholic leadership, in society, across the globe, even within their own followers. There has been an intensification of hate against people who are gay in the last 30 years, and although quite liberal at one point, many bishops and cardinals have been forced in to the anti-gay wing, by unknown forces – they chose the wrong side of history. Wholesale change of leadership is now essential – but I won’t hold my breath. :(
New leadership is not needed, de Villiers. What is needed is abolition, don’t you think!
And I agree that once the jubilation has died down, condemnation must begin, and with condemnation the assurance of punishment.
“Condemnation rather than celebration”…why not enjoy both?…I’ve been happily dancing from foot-to-foot all day:-)…..I almost went to Church, but don’t know where my local Catholic one is….’Praise the Lord’:-)…
Praise the Lord – that four men were sexually abused?
I am doing my little happy dance
Strange thing about Cardinal O’Brien that most commentators in recent years have been missing. Before he became cardinal, he was actually a liberal who generally supported and gave voice to progressive moves in the church. Which made his switch to being homophobe number one when he became cardinal all the more surprising.
Yes, I was looking through his wiki and it appears he went ballistic once Civil Partnerships were proposed – even though that wasn’t anything to do with the church. He’s also threatened politicians if they support abortion that his followers won’t vote for them and their place in the church might be in jeopardy.
After being ordained he never spent very long in one place.
Gulliver, I haven’t been able to quickly summon up a photo of O’Brien during his years of seduction, when he was a handsome young man. Have you?
And the headlines needs to say “Catholic cardinal accused of seducing trainee priests!”, don’t you think? :-)
Don’t think he was much of a looker!
Halfway down that page, Ed – the newspaper cutting. Looks a good-lookin’ regular hetty rugby-playing bloke to me! Love the little dimple! Sexy bastard, he was. Pity he was such a liar about it.
He has been archbishop of Edinburgh and St. Andrews since 1985. One of the first things he did in that role was issue guidance that condoms would not be sinful in relationships between men and women where one was HIV positive. However the Vatican stepped and demanded he withdraw that advice and tell his flock that condoms are always sinful. Edinburgh had a huge number of HIV positive drug users so those of us working in HIV services in Edinburgh back then can maybe appreciate that his switch to homophobic bigot of the year was not all it seems.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a supporter of O’Brien, but the current regime at the Vatican has so distorted the beliefs and behaviour of the church that it is hard to know really what many senior churchmen believe.
O’Brien did have a choice – he could have refused to become a Cardinal. But ambition got the better of him, and he simply echoed the Vatican’s gay hating rhetoric in the UK. Nichols in Westminster is no better, though probably straight! He started off as a liberal but in his desperation to become a Cardinal started to beat the Vatican drum over here – fortunately the red hat and socks were not to be.
Hmm, that’s a little unfair. It has been a tradition in the church that the primacy and the Carinal role alternates between Glasgow and Edinburgh/st Andrews. It was inevitable then when Cardinal Winning (a real bigot of the worst kind) died, that OBrien would be the cardinal. I don’t think he sought it and he would not have been in a position to refuse it.
But actually, I don’t think it was just the role that changed him. He was elevated to the cardinal role in 2003 and initially did not say much that was bigoted. Then Ratzinger was elected Pope and it all changed. I would hazard that the vatican regime has more to do with his switch than anything else.
I don’t know that you can call 3 cardinals in Scotland since the reformation a tradition. I agree that O’Brien simply abandoned his liberalism because he wanted to be a good little cardinal and do as he was told. But I also agree that he could have refused to become a cardinal in order to stick to his liberal views. Remember though, when Cardinal Winning died, O’Brien became the leader of the church in Scotland by default as the most senior Archbishop, being a cardinal was not a necessary step to make him the leader.
That’s not true, at the time it was thought that the more conservative Conti would have been made Cardinal. In fact the then Cardinal Ratzinger tried to block his appointment, and you will recall that O’Brien was forced to make an additional oath upholding church teaching on clerical celibacy and homosexuality. If he had refused to he would not have been created a Cardinal. So he did have a choice.
I think you’re right, Ed. I remember when Conti replaced Winning as Archbishop of Glasgow, he was treated as if he was the most senior catholic in Scotland – despite O’Brien having seniority simply by being an Archbishop for longer. The media would go to Conti for the church’s view on whatever subject was making the news, for example. I also remember hearing at the time that Conti was extemely pissed off when O’Brien was made cardinal and that O’Brien himself hadn’t expected it either.
Does anyone think this scandal might have broken to shut him up? Particularly after his comments about a married priesthood? And the fact the Vatican know he has a long history of liberalism. I believe he also opposed Ratzinger in the last conclave so someone could be trying to stymie his vote now.
I had also wondered about the timing and nature of the complaint (to the vatican rather than the police), but one news report I read today said that the alleged victims sent their letter of complaint a week before the pope announced his resignation. If true, then it doesn’t really make sense that it’s a concerted effort to shut O’Brien up. And he has been loyal to the vatican, even going so far as to cast off his previous liberal views for ultra conservative ones, so it’s not like he was a thorn in their side.
Maybe the vatican was worried he could become liberal again in retirement and that he’d publicly speak out against the church, just like you point out over married (straight) priests.
As for the last papal election, I’m sure (but not 100% sure) that I read an interview soon afterwards where O’Brien claimed to have voted for Ratzinger. I think it was the same interview where he said he’d picked out the name Andrew in case he was elected pope!
Note there has only been ONE statement, the one submitted to the Observer. The only thing we know about the alleged victims is their allegations. We do not know who they are or even if they exist or even if any of their allegations have any validity. We only have the statements word that a secret submission was made previously to the nuncio, no other evidence.
But for me the most suspicious thing has been the Vatican response. Standard lay it takes months usually to get Vatican reactions, but within only a few hours of the observer report Lombardi was in front of the cameras with a fully prepared reaction statement.
I have come face to face with this man, as he used to visit my school and say mass, ponce through the corridors with his posse behind him, having doors opened for him. That school was a disgrace to humanity with a near hysteria on homosexuality and constant abuse inflicted between students regarding gay people, and I spied more than a few like myself who kept their mouths shut and head down, isolated and taking on the shame of being disgusting. Some of the teachers were totally in on it. This guy (the cardinal) lorded over that environment for bringing up children.
How could somebody on one hand promote the demonisation of homosexuals, while lording it over the suffering children in his schools oblivious to the utter lack of love and tolerance therein. He ought to have been taught.
Yes, yes, yes, Martin. This person has caused immense psychological harm amongst young LGBTs throughout Scotland. So if the allegations are true, he must face civil justice, not church justice. The police must become involved. I’m hoping that this news will cause others to come forward, but not to write letters to the hypocrites and Catholic co-conspirators in Rome but rather to the UK police. He must be tried, and if found guilty he must be punished. There must be justice.
Some may say “Oh, he only abused a few grown seminarians”! Nonsense. He sexually abused people over whom he had authority. That’s sexual harassment at the very least.
As the age of consent for gay sex was 21 at the time and those involved appear to be 18-20, it could be a criminal matter.
In Scotland, homosexuality was only decriminalised in 1980, I think. But I think it’s a criminal matter anyway, isn’t it? Inappropriate acts isn’t a detailed decsription of what exactly went on, but it was some form of sexual abuse, which means it’s against the law.
Or Sexual Harassment?
My (foolish) parents have put their faith in him in their support for his anti-gay campaigns. And now it all seems to be unravelling. It is easy for Catholics in Scotland to bury their heads to the abuses in other countries and in the Vatican. But when such hypocrisy is going on on our own doorstep, it will be hard to ignore and I actually feel for Scottish catholics over this. They will feel utterly betrayed but it is a good thing for hypocritic liars to be identified. Hopefully people realise the damage of a homophobic society on its people to do all sorts of things to get by. Even living a life based on a lie to feel righteous.
This cardinal is extremely anti-gay rights. It makes sense therefore, that perhaps living with his own self hatred and regretful life, he seeks to perpetuate his agony on others. Shame on him.
But let’s be cautious he vehemently denies the ‘allegations’. We await with intent on the unfolding of this story to shed more light on the situation.
His failure to appear at Mass this morning surely suggests a person who now wishes to hide? (Not to mention a person who’s actually gutless!)
The relentlessly circular flight of pigeons coming home to roost. It’s almost poetic.
Interesting… I’ve just looked at other papers and see that the Daily Mail isn’t allowing comments on this story.
Typical, homophobic reports are routinely opened for all to use as much homophobia as possible but when it comes to this… they can’t for legal reasons.
More bloody hypocrites.
The Telegraph his biggest supporter has not even reported the story! They must be feeling fools now.
The Telegraph eventually reported it just before 10am, but with a predictably heavy emphasis on “contesting” the claims of “inappropriate” behaviour, with much use of inverted commas.
They’re obviously far more concerned with damage limitation and whitewash !
I think that’s all that religion is only concerned about…..
Paging Keith O’Brien – your closet door’s busted.
How soon before we get the Roy Zimmerman song about this one?
“…yet another rabid virulent anti-gay activist who turned out to be gay… and the question then becomes, y’know, how do you know when a rabid virulent anti gay activist is in fact gay? And the answer is -’Well Duh!’”
Dear Cardinal O Brien.
Just remember what Jesus said:
Judge not, and you will not be judged.
How the chickens have come home to roost…
Only they’re no longer chickens, but grown men with a voice and a public willing to listen to them.
Love Scotland. Cleanse ourselves of religion, religiously inspired intolerance of others (hanging onto religion in order to maintain your football tribe), and especially, religious hypocrisy.
Having been subject to the damage of the catholic church in Scotland as a baby, child, teenager and young adult, from a family blindly devoted to the whims of their superiors (like the cardinal) I feel somewhat qualified to speak on this.
Growing up I always had the figure of 60-70% of priests were gay, but I’d not revise that upwards to 80-90%.
I know and hear about priests taking holidays to certain places where the rentboys are cheap and friendly (e.g. parts of Brazil or Thailand) and easy to come by.
Out gay men simply hope to live healthy & fulfilled lives. The true dysfunction and disorderedliness among homosexual men seems more applicable to the preists themselves, and not to out gay men who strive for honesty, authenticity, equality and acceptance.
Martin, from my own expereinces this is so true!
Always rely on the good old fashioned saying “The truth will always out” – Wait and see – if however it is true then we should show him as much mercy as he has shown to others! I thouroughly detest those who live by the principle “Do as I say, not as I do!”
Saw this on TV this morning and I was beaming! :D What fabulous news! Not for anyone O’Brien may have hurt, of course, but a real eye-opener for those who’ve listened to his vile anti-gay lies.
Male priests? The RC church hasn’t got anything else…..except on Saturday nights perhaps ;)
It seems he didn’t turn up to mass today.
Personally I thought he’d stroll in and attend regardless, he’s always struck me as someone who wouldn’t worry about allegations against him.
Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor – I’ve read what he said, and now I’ve listed to the clip, and I have to say he doesn’t seem shocked by this, nor particularly supportive, pointing to fact that he’s resigning shortly anyway. Nobody seems willing to defend him, to say he is a friend of theirs, that they cannot believe the allegations, that he wouldn’t have done that.
This is perhaps the problem, that they don’t take abuse like this seriously enough.
DEFINITELY the problem, Gulliver. And if there’s truth behind this, then they’ve got to be MADE to take the issue seriously. No promises, as usual, from them: rather the civil law must be brought to bear on the church. They can no longer remain IMMUNE.
I’m very reluctant to criticise the 4 men who were the alleged victims of O’Brien, but I’m disappointed that they haven’t went to the police and instead feel that the church should handle it instead. As they are still serving priests (and a former priest), perhaps they’re still in thrall to the church? The church is not above the law and should not be dealing with criminal acts on it’s own. Surely these men would want proper justice, not the church’s version of justice?
I’m not sure what the Police could realistically do. They were all over what is now the age of consent and a criminal investigation for sexual harassment probably wouldn’t go anywhere. Although admittedly the Vatican is likely to do even less.
The point about them being over the age of consent is irrelevent. They did not consent to whatever O’Brien allegedly did to them. Does rape (for example) not count as rape is the victim is over 16? Of course it does! These men were allegedly abused against their will, it doesn’t matter if they were 12 or 22.
You could be right about a police investigation going nowhere, but surely it’s still worth reporting? As you also point out, there is a chance of justice going to the police, while there is no chance of justice at all leaving it to the vatican.
But most importantly, the vatican has no legal authority when it comes to criminal acts. If a school teacher or a social worker is accused of abusing people under their care, it would be reported to the police immmediately. If not, then everyone involved would be dealt with by the law. Why is the catholic church allowed to get away with ignoring the law?
Sorry Bennie, I meant to give you a thumb’s up.
“… there is no chance of justice at all leaving it the the vatican.”
These are very shocking and very serious allegations, especially as they allegedly involve some very vulnerable young men ─ presumably, below the age of consent at the time ─ and the cardinal who would have been in his mid forties at the time. We now have to listen to what the cardinal has to say about it.
Apparently the Cardinal is strenuously in denial.
Ahemmm, [cough] sorry, of course what I meant to say was ‘strenuously denies these completely unfounded and false allegations’.
This is probably true and not uncommon in the catholic hierarchy. It’s not new, been going on for centuries.
I only hope the Guardian, Independent, Evening Standard and Times give this wide coverage and then we can sit back and watch the Mail and Telegraph squirm, both have supported this bigot and hypocrite throughout the equal marriage debate. I’ve always maintained the ones who protest too much are the most suspect. Serves him right. StonewallUK’s bigot of the year award was well earned and stands vindicated. Every catholic priest is now suspect and I bet among the 1000+ who signed the petition against equal marriage, more than half of them are gay.
I wonder if Alex Salmond and Ruth Davidson still think we shouldn’t call O’Brien a bigot? I bet they’ll both remain deathly silent about these latest allegations!
Many will have their head in their hands today, wondering how the hell they’re going to get out of this one. I did wonder if by stating that priests should be allowed to marry, he wasn’t preparing his defense by saying if he’s been allowed to marry he wouldn’t have been sexually frustrated and abused his authority with members of the clergy who were powerless to stop him. There’s also a story there about people who have a lot of power without any checks and balances. He IS the person who’d deal with abuse, as the highest authority regionally for Catholics within Scotland, yet he can’t investigate himself. Even now, what checks and balances do they have for younger priests to report that sort of abuse? 30 years ago there was probably none, but even now, it must be incredibly difficult. Those 4 are being very brave and should be totally supported. The 3 serving priests may well have ended their careers over this.
TI agree with most of what you say, Gulliver, except to say that O’Brien isn’t the person who should be dealing with abuse claims – the police should be doing that. The church has no legal authority here, and any priest who has ever comitted abuse should be subject to the laws of that country. The same goes for priest and bishops who covered up that abuse – they should all be charged with perverting the course of justice, or the equivalent in their respective countries.
Of course, they’ll hold their tongues, Bennie and if they don’t, they won’t condemn him either, politics as usual.
You’re right about that, Robert! I was just so annoyed with both of them speaking out at the time of the Stonewall awards, with Ruth Davidson saying we shouldn’t call people bigots (when that’s exactly what they are) and then Alex Salmond specifically said we shouldn’t call O’Brien a bigot (when that’s exactly what he is). What made it worse was thst neither one ever condemned O’Brien’s hate speech about gay people.
Robert, I noticed the link to the story on the Mail’s website has disappeared. If you open the story about the Pope’s speech today there’s a link in there, but it’s gone from the front page.
I was just waiting for something like this to come out.
He is a catholic priest afer all.
Can’t imagine that he’s kept his activities to trainee priests, or priests.
The 80s was a different time to what it is today. From 1976 to 1982, I had the misfortune of being educated by the Christian Brothers in Ireland, and I know from only too well how these characters in their swishing black robes operate in the corridors of an all boys school.
I would be surprised if these 4 brave men haven’t opened the doors for further allegations to come forward.
I had a Xian Bros education too, Paul. I reckon you’re right. What we need now is for all the rest to be BRAVE and pick up the phone to the police in Scotland, or anywhere else where they were harassed by priests or brothers.
Another Roman Catholic hypocrite! The allegations will be brushed under the carpet just like they have been in the past. May God forgive him for his bigoted views.
Rather than us just HOPING that there might be some big pixie in the sky, Sam, who will punish this swine, wouldn’t it be wiser for us to try and ensure he gets some punishment here on this planet, during his lifetime? :-)
Believe it or not I’m a realist and life has taught me that people in authority rarely, if ever get their comeuppance.
I actually believe in the big pixie in the sky as you put it.
When I was young and careless as to what I said about God, a wise man told me to be aware of all those who might be threatened or frightened by my words. I hope that you will be more guarded in the future as to what you might say. Your intolerance is understandable but also sad.
When Cardinal O Brien was appointed a Cardinal, he added an additional paragraph to his oath, here it is:
“I further state that I accept and intend to defend the law on ecclesiastical celibacy as it is proposed by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church; I accept and promise to defend the ecclesiastical teaching about the immorality of the homosexual act; I accept and promise to promulgate always and everywhere what the Church’s Magisterium teaches on contraception. So help me God and these Holy Scriptures which I touch with my hand.”
What a bloody hypocrite…
Fascinating, Paul. Thank you for that. Can you tell us why such an addition might have been “voluntarily” added to his vows? Was the addition indicative of a personal inclination that he had, or that he was known to have? Is there any possibility he was required to include it, do you think?
Sounds extraordinary to me. If when I was member of that despicable cult such an inclusion had occurred, the words “homosexual act” ringing out through the congregation, it would have certainly have raised eyebrows!
Och, I remember when Keith O’Brien was one of the most handsome men in Scotland. And now it comes to this! Serves him right. Abysmal.
Beauty is clearly in the eye of the beholder ! Even with the pics from Edmund (below). It is very strange, this thing called attraction. Nobody really knows exactly what each of finds physically attractive and why.
Calm down, he’s going to get what’s coming to him.
I think you may have a little too much faith, Bent Pin!
Never much of a looker
See the newspaper pic halfway down the page! The bastard was a smiling hunk whom I would have found hard to resist!
I love the links giving advice at the very bottom of the page…I hope they put one there along the lines of ‘I’ve been accused of molesting young men, what should I do?’…
You couldn’t make this stuff up. I’m waiting for the movie.
If only Kenneth Williams were still with us, or Charles Hawtrey…they’d be very persuasive as the Cardinal:-)…
I bet Stanley Baxter could do a great O’Brien!
Perhaps O’Brien should also be seen as a victim – his mind has been twisted beyond endurance by living inside an abusive cult for 50 years and being given corrupting power by it (the same cult that figures in the film ‘The Magdalene Sisters’.) Forget about choosing a smiling new homophobic Pope to carry on the racket: its time for a huge truth and reconciliation commission. His and all other victims of abuse in the catholic church deserve justice.
The hypocrisy of this bitter old queen in a dress and funny hat is beyond belief. how anyone can engender such self hatred and homophobia is surely a mental illness and that along with the mental illness of his religious fantasy is sad in a way and he should be closeted in a convent or some such place for his ow sake and the good of society in general. As an aside on the Big Questions on BBC1 this morn. one of the questions was re taxation and religion . A lawyer opined that religions who used contributions (tax free) of the faithful to fund spurious activities should lose their Tax free status. i was reminded of the vile O’Briens statement that he would spend one million pounds of such money to fight Marriage equality., surely a political act. should the Roman Cult not lose its tax free status for such activities I say definitely so and if there are any Gay Tax experts reading these threads, then you should have a look at such status with a view to having it repealed
That goes for the Anglican cult too!
Hear, hear! And the cult represented by those irrational loons from Northern Ireland who uttered religious hatred at the 2nd reading of the Same Sex Couples Bill several weeks ago.
Yes, indeed! Nary a word from that other self-loather Widdecombe after friday’s tirade about ‘christians’ failing to protest in the streets against equal marriage. If she felt so strongly, makes you wonder why she wasn’t the first to do it. She’s never said one word about the paedophile scandal and she probably won’t say anything about this latest revelation either.
How vindicated do we all feel today – This Self Loathing – closeted Denouncer of Gays in all aspects of life Has been found out – confirming the utter Hypocrisy of this World wide Superstition – Tear down the Vatican and divide up their hoarded wealth to the people in the world who need it –
Out law ALL organised Superstitions and deport ALL religions hypocrites!
Deport them to the gulag. They should enjoy Stalins creation – after all, he actualy was in a russian orthodox seminary in his youth – essentially catholic in many ways
If these allegations are true, their publication certainly was fuelled by the homophobic stridency of Cardinal O’Brien in recent months. Nonetheless, what I don’t understand, particularly since contexts for outing, naming and shaming of public figures even in the churches have been common for many years, is not, why now? (that is obvious), but, how is it these people have kept quiet for thirty years?
Three of them are still priests so, apart from being scared of the publicity and / or not being believed, they would have been rubbished by the RCC for speaking out. As we have seen many times, the RCC’s top priority has always been to sweep such allegations under the carpet whenever it can.
In fact, the RCC will probably rubbish them even now, although it may be a bit more subtle nowadays. But they certainly won’t have an easy time of it.
Don’t forget that at the time there was no internet, so each would have thought that they were the only one to have been abused.
One person battling against a massive, powerful and immensely rich Establishment that has total control of their destiny…. no wonder none of them dared to speak out !
Thanks for replying. I understand your point. However, the Church has changed tactics in recent years. It has had no choice but to do things differently, as you indicate. The massive abuse scandal of Boston in 2002 which nearly sent the RCC in the US into meltdown moved the goalposts. Lying would never be as simple an option again with media & legal dep’ts subsequently watching everything. However, it is only 10 years since O’Brien was made a cardinal. It just staggers me that nobody took a pop at him then with this information or when he was so vocal at the time of the last papal election. To go after him a month before he is 75 defeats the purpose, it seems to me. He can just retire whenever and say he was going to anyway, precisely because he is 75. The publicity of the allegations could see some events anticipated or not; It is clearly embarrassing for the RCC, particularly in Scotland, but too late to change anything effectively.
One day later and it has happened as I described above and too late. Ok he won’t go to the conclave now because Rome doesn’t want the publicity but he gets to retire in the normal way and falls behind the usual ‘failing health’ routine.
Ann Widdecomnbe unhappy that so called ‘christians’ didn’t protest in the streets against equal marriage, yet where was she when the paedophilia scandal exploded on to the world stage. Not one catholic in the UK or anywhere marched in protest.
She and others of her ilk and her supporters at the Mail and Telegraph as well as the BBC will call it a conspiracy to discredit him and link it to the ‘gay lobby’ in the Vatican. Whoever these priests and former priest are coming forward with these allegations after all this time, they’d better have proof regardless of O’Brien’s stance on married clergy. That he didn’t appear for mass this morning leads me to conclude that the allegations are probably true. Liars always vehemently deny what they’ve done until the evidence piles up and they’re forced to concede under pressure. If he is innocent and has nothing to fear, then why didn’t he face his congregation today to counter the allegations?
> “If he is innocent and has nothing to fear, then why didn’t he face his congregation today to counter the allegations?”
If someone ever made an untrue but extremely damaging allegation against me, I’d be shouting my innocence from the rooftops. I’d go on Newsnight have and relish having Jeremy Paxman grill me while I was wired up to a lie detector. I’d howl at my detractors day and night until they did the same: they would have no rest whatsoever until they confessed to being liars…
I’d also instruct Sue, Grabbit and Runne to sue them for every penny they had, and (after deducting legitimate expenses) I’d give all the damages to charity.
Only if the allegations were true would I be too ashamed even to show my face !
I totally concur, Gerry. I would have immediately responded if I were innocent. That’s what normal people do. People like O’Brien are psychopaths The roman cult is extremely dysfunctional, socially and morally, run by equally dysfunctional men. If every gay priest came out and defected to another more welcoming church, or ideally quit religion altogether, there’s no way the roman cult would survive.
Robert, you mention the BBC – it’s religious correspondent on the BBC News channel this morning mentioned the things that the Cardinal is most outspoken about and then added at the end that the Cardinal is also “quite hawkish” about same-sex marriage. “Quite” is the understatement of the century and his bigoted stance on homosexuality in general, not just same-sex marriage, could hardly be added as an apparent footnote as the correspondent did in his comments. On the BBC News website the same correspondent raises the question why the accusers are complaining now and states that an attempt to prevent Cardinal O’Brien taking part in the conclave is unlikely to work.
I detect a bias at the BBC in favour of the Cardinal, but I could be paranoid of course! Personally, I feel that the BBC is very conservative and so it shouldn’t be surprising that it would behave in that manner over these allegations, especially considering how the corporation behaved over the Savile allegations.
Exactly, James. BBC makes no bones about who it supports. I’ve never witnessed such unbalanced reporting when it comes to LGBT equality. As such, it makes me wonder why we’re paying our licences, for what exactly? They’ve never given fair representation of gay people. “Hawkish” doesn’t even begin to describe O’Brien’s opposition. I think the BBC is using this as a red herring without having to question the veracity of the allegations. It these prove to be true and I have reason to believe they are, the BBC would not condemn him. I don’t think for a minute this has anything to do with O’Brien’s participation in the papal selection. It might however have something to do with the fact that he’s nearing retirement, coincidence perhaps. It’s purely conjecture on the BBC’s part, a feeble excuse to acknowledge the obvious.
I don’t believe the bias comes from the BBC per se, but from its religious corresponded Robert Piggot aka Bob the Bigot!
But I remember a few years ago Robert Piggot used to appear to be very much on our side, added to which I’ve always thought that he just has to be gay. So perhaps Piggot has been leaned on? Worse corruption has been found to be going on inside the “venerable” BBC!
As good a time as any for this spoof Lady Gaga video given new lyrics by Sherry Vine – The second verse seems pretty apt here…
Oh, it’s all coming out now. Who will be called to account next I wonder…….hmmmm!!!
I just read reports that apparently he was a no show for his regular Sunday schedule, and was not available for comment!
Speaks out constantly to the media about things that don’t concern him, then when the press try to seek him out to interview (interrogate) him what irony “he’s not available for comment, suddenly camera shy and in hiding”
…..turn the other cheek anyone?? No? Oh well, vengeance is mine said the Lord
Jing crivvens an’help ma boab !-i’ve just pissed my kilt!
Getting everything he deserves, -just wondering what his “get out clause “will be ?a) the devil made me do it, b) I’m going senile you know ? and can’t remember . c) it was their fault , all typical excuses from the religious sexual predator. I may become catholic again if he gets banged up in prison , and then again I might regain my virginity.
The bigger the front, the bigger the back.
This MF should be turned into a girl. And put in a mans prison.
Amazing how many good things are happening now. Even turkey afirmds gays are normal. Germany, italy and Austria courts afirm gays make good parents
If I was a farmer I’d have a bull roast – First I’d brand the bull with two names
Keith certainly seems to have been behaving outwith Scottish law at the time:
The Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 1980 is an Act of Parliament in the United Kingdom (citation 1980 c.62). It decriminalized private homosexual acts between two consenting adults in Scotland:
“Subject to the provisions of this section, a homosexual act in private shall not be an offence provided that the parties consent thereto and have attained the age of twenty-one years.”
The homosexual age of consent fixed by the Act (21) was much higher than the heterosexual age of consent in the United Kingdom, which had been set at 16 since the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885. The ages of consent for homosexual and heterosexual acts in Scotland were eventually equalised at 16 with the passage of the Sexual Offences (Amendment) Act 2000.
I think that it’s largely irrelevant that homosexuality was still illegal at the time, because we’re talking about O’Brien in some manner forcing himself on these men (allegedly) against their will. That’s a criminal act at any time, even after homosexuality was decriminalised.
he was also in a position of authority over these guys and even now that can make it an offence ,don’t forget… But he just resigned so thats proof of his innocence isn’t it
According to the BBC website he’s decided to quit, proving that even now he has to follow Ratzinger to the letter.
This bigot just resigned!! Wohooo…
It has been reported that his case will be referred to the procurator fiscal’s office and the offence treated as a criminal matter.
Where is that being reported?
I can bring up no search results whatsoever for “Keith O’Brien” and “Procurator Fiscal”.
It’s the hypocrisy that gets me. Of O’Brien, yes, but of all these religious types who stick to a ‘truth’ even if it goes against scientific knowledge, against humanity and, as in this case, against their own personal integrity. However, I’d beware of saying these stories ‘out’ the cardinal he may be lonely rather than gay. The catholic apologists are always trying to say that paedophilia in the church is because of all the gay men in the clergy, just because so many victims are male. It’s more likely that these guys are sexed up to the eye-balls through deprivation of human contact, lonely and, in their twisted ‘truth’, seem to believe that rape and inappropriate contact don’t harm males who are in any case more easily available as altar boys and trainee priests. Let’s hope the whole edifice comes crashing down so they can start again from first principals – and take on board up to date human science.
Just read the news of his Resignation! too bad it wasn’t years ago! But hey! who would have imagined this when all the people criticized his nomination as Bigot of the year! Between this and the pope, this is the delicious icing on the the cake… it’s just unfortunate he wasn’t just weeks away from retirement.
Hi guys,things can’t get any better for us,what goes around COMES around he he
Many of the above views are worthy of Der Stürmer (the Anti-Catholic Pink News of it’s day):
In a religion where the men for centuries have died clutching their golden treasures and holy books and holding office unto their final breath, suddenly everyone is quitting due to “health reasons”. Yeah, right.