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Trans woman student abused and shoved out of toilets at Leeds University

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  1. theotherone 8 Feb 2013, 3:51pm

    and you thought gay marriage was a big issue – some of us can’t even go for a p1ss without fearing violence.

  2. Katie kool-eyes 8 Feb 2013, 4:15pm

    Poor woman. As theotherone said, we cannot even use the bathroom without fear of attack.

    I hope the uni takes this matter as seriously as it is. There was no excuse for such awful behavior!

    1. ...Paddyswurds 8 Feb 2013, 7:12pm

      ………he is not a woman and never will be,. Just another creep with a castration fetish and a addiction to female hormones looking for attention. Use the male facilities …that’s what they are for……… 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 countdown to the inevitable screaming match from the trannies screaming transphobia…Meh!

      1. Katie kool-eyes 8 Feb 2013, 8:22pm

        I’ve yet to meet anyone with a “castration fetish.” She IS a she, it’s such a shame someone like yourself who experiences bigotry and hate from others can so readily do the same to others.

        1. ...Paddyswurds 8 Feb 2013, 9:17pm

          Again you are presumptuous. I have never in my 62 years experienced bigotry or discrimination from anyone because i was Gay except that is a so called trans person in the personage of none other than April Ashley which is why I have the attitude I do to this sad fetish that apparently hasn’t been the panacea these deluded people expected….peace of mind or body.

          1. Fukc off you Fenian cnut

          2. Katie kool-eyes 9 Feb 2013, 6:25am

            So by your logic, if someone from a demographic caused me upset, I should write off the entire group and seek them out on the internet to attack? You don’t see the foolishness in that?

            So, you have never experienced bigitory, good for you. But others have, and it needs to stop.

            Not only are you hiding behind a keyboard, but a thin excuse as well. Before you say I hide behind a keyboard also, I do not. I step out everyday and risk incidents such as this.

            Btw, your hate seems only directed at trans women (even if someone did, I cannot see how a trans man could have a “castration fetish”) Again, you are showing your true colors by spending so much time and energy in pursuit of your nastiness.

          3. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 2:11pm

            Katie kool-eyes
            Obviously you are one of these pedants who has to count on your fingers. No Ashley was and still is my attitudes raison de terre, but for all the intervening years I have not had any experience to change my mind. Every news item where Trans folk are concerned has been a litnay of whine and whinge and “Oh woe is me” ffs. Case in point amongst a myriad of others is the vile Chastity Bono who goes from one attention seeking stunt to another and who claims to be a man despite retaining her female bits except for a radical mastectomy. This, as I have opined before many times, is nothing more or less a sick castration fetish undertaken by some and a step too far for others, like Ms Bono and numerous others who parade as men having babies. The same applies to male to female where we have the sick spectacle of “chicks” with dicks, so don’t presume to preach crap to me; I have been around the block more times than you have had hot dinners and know well of what i speak .

          4. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 2:11pm

            Katie kool-eyes
            Obviously you are one of these pedants who has to count on your fingers. No Ashley was and still is my attitudes raison de terre, but for all the intervening years I have not had any experience to change my mind. Every news item where Trans folk are concerned has been a litnay of whine and whinge and “Oh woe is me” ffs. Case in point amongst a myriad of others is the vile Chastity Bono who goes from one attention seeking stunt to another and who claims to be a man despite retaining her female bits except for a radical mastectomy. This, as I have opined before many times, is nothing more or less a sick castration fetish undertaken by some and a step too far for others, like Ms Bono and numerous others who parade as men having babies. The same applies to male to female where we have the sick spectacle of “chicks” with d1cks, so don’t presume to preach crap to me; I have been around the block more times than you have had hot dinners and know well of what i speak .

          5. Your “raison de terre”?

            Ok Del boy.

            Chas Bono is a self appointed spokesperson for trans people, it doesn’t mean he’s an actual spokesperson for trans people, anymore than Stonewall are representative of the entire LGBT community. Also, as far as I know, he hasn’t had any children.

            Would you like it if Rylan whateverhisnameis was considered representative of every single gay male?

            What if someone who once met George Michael and had a bad experience, now loathed all gay men because of this, would you consider their homophobia rational?

            theotherone is right you are an idiot

          6. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 4:12pm

            …comparing Gay people with trannies is like comparing trees with whales. There simply is no comparison. The whole trans thing needs a radical rethink, and I would prefer , same as o lot of GLB people , not to be associated with their …. whatever it is!
            “Women” with penis’ and “men” who give birth is hardly edifying. and only serves to paint GLBs with the same brush of revulsion felt by by most people at such perversion.

          7. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 4:25pm

            jesus paddy, you are the most boring troll ever

          8. “…comparing Gay people with trannies is like comparing trees with whales.”

            Good job I didn’t do that then isn’t it? I compared your prejudice with other people’s prejudice and one situation with another, in an attempt (obviously fruitless) to engender empathy from yourself.

            However I did not compare one gay person with one trans person. I think it’s pretty obvious that George Michael and April Ashley have nothing in common. Ditto Rylan xfactorface and Chas Bono, [well actually they both are, (IMO irritating), reality tv celebrities but that’s tangential to my point].

          9. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 7:13pm

            … isn’t referring to Chastity Bone as “a TV celebrity” stretching the bounds of credulity just a tad. more like she is a perpetually attention seeking nut case who is trying to reverse the effects of being ignored by her equally attention seeking Mother and late Father…..

          10. Ben Foster 9 Feb 2013, 9:02pm

            Paddy, you have NEVER been discriminated against for being gay in 62 years? I find that hard to believe, somehow, but it would explain your lack of understanding of other people’s issues.

          11. paddy…..62 years?…glad that your kind are dying out….hope you do soon….shoulnt be long now

        2. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 3:08pm

          red hand: i would ask you not to use racist slurs.

          thank you

          1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 4:15pm

            His comment wasn’t racist. I am and readily claim to be a Fenian and proud of it. Educate yourself…..

          2. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 6:01pm

            … however those who refer to me as paddy using lower case p are in fact being racist and deliberately so…. by assuming I am Irish and referring to Irish people as paddy. My tag is # Paddyswurds and if you feel the need to shorten that it is Paddy.

          3. Lazyiness with the Caps Lock Key is not akin to racism. Even if the Irish were a race in the first place

          4. The comment wasn’t racist, but it was sectarian and this isn’t the place for that kind of argument. Paddy is objectionable for his transphobia. Which side of the Irish political fence he sits is irrelevant here.

        3. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 7:19pm

          ….says an Englishman…. Like it or not referring to Irish people as paddy (or mick ) is considered racism in polite society although that is usually lost on the Sasanach who usually (privately) don’t even equate Irish with Human.!
          Laziness with the caps lock is no excuse for racism….

          1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 8:02pm

            oh my god you’re being picked on!

            we’ve been here before paddy – back when you threw racist insults at a black user.

            you come on here, insight violence against minorities and then claim you’re being picked on? ha bleedin ha

          2. No one called an Irish person a mick or a paddy. theotherone shortened your name. I’m not an “Englishman” either. You cheapen racism with your hysterics.

          3. Average Man 10 Feb 2013, 12:46am

            possibly he is called paddy because he likes to throw paddies when he doesn’t get his way, like an infant.

      2. theotherone 8 Feb 2013, 10:52pm

        oh no, it’s paddy

      3. Tara Hewitt 10 Feb 2013, 1:20am

        Do you know anything about trans people other than your obvious fear of us….

      4. revolting individual, you are….why are you here anyway?

    2. ...Paddyswurds 8 Feb 2013, 7:13pm

      ………he is not a woman and never will be,. Just another creep with a castration fetish and a addiction to female hormones looking for attention. Use the male facilities …that’s what they are for……… 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 countdown to the inevitable screaming match from the pretends screaming transphobia…Meh!

      1. theotherone 8 Feb 2013, 11:14pm

        how about the inevitable ‘you are an idiot paddy’

        1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 4:18pm

          Meh! …I am also a realist and when i see a frog I know it is a frog…..

          1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 4:26pm

            and when i see an idiot i know it’s an idiot

          2. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 4:35pm

            You must spend a lot of your time in front of a mirror then….

          3. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 4:57pm

            your stupidity causes me pain paddy

          4. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 7:07pm

            Good… You in particular deserve it !

          5. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 7:48pm

            i and all the other trans people you advocate violence against.

          6. ...Paddyswurds 12 Feb 2013, 3:18pm

            …nah, Just you.

      2. you really are a crappy human paddy

  3. Christine Beckett 8 Feb 2013, 4:20pm

    Nice to see Leeds Uni are aware and supportive across all levels, including Security.

    Shame about the students who acted that way. Hope they got an official reminder of the behaviour expected of them. It’s next to impossible to change a bigot’s mind, but one can legislate to punish them acting on itheir views.

  4. Given the usual behaviour of most young girls these days, it might not even have been because she is trans, all the school leavers I have met recently were walking excrement.

    1. Julia Wilmott 15 Feb 2013, 3:21pm

      This is a direct result of tuition fees and the liarbour policy of “education education debt”. I’m an alumni of Leeds, 25 years ago and an openly visible transwoman even back then. I never experienced this kind of abuse on campus. Might that be because in those days (with grants and stuff for people actually QUALIFIED to attend) students were a better “class” of people, more tolerant of difference and open to other possibilities than they are now when it’s all about having the family wealth to go and to hell with being clever.

  5. The students’ union, the security staff, and especially Alexis herself, have all responded admirably to this horrible incident. But what happened here highlights the need for widespread awareness-raising of trans issues, especially considering that this occurred at a university where you might expect people to be more enlightened and accepting than the general population.

  6. I’m pleased to see the Student Union have a clear policy in place, and (perhaps more surprisingly) the security staff were willing to deal with it swiftly and efficiently. Of course it’s sad that it happened in the first place, and shows that better education is needed to prevent such things from happening in the first place.

  7. Alexis Starr 8 Feb 2013, 6:52pm

    I’m that transwoman! I usually never have a problem, because most GGs aren’t bitches!

    1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 3:07pm

      i think the use of the term ‘bitches’ is problematic alexis

      1. Alexis Starr 10 Feb 2013, 10:07pm

        No, they were bitches. Girls/ladies don’t act like that!

        1. theotherone 10 Feb 2013, 11:49pm

          ‘bitches’ is used as a term of abuse towards women

    2. What is a GG?

      1. genetic girls

    3. I hate it when people call women ‘bitch’. Especially when other women do it. Where’s the sisterhood?

      1. No worse than calling a man a “bastard”, IMHO. The only objection to using the term in question is that it demeans female dogs, who are properly called bitches.

        Anyway, are you more concerned about grading her grammar or showing some support for her? Me, I support Alexis. Way to go Girl!!!

  8. ...Paddyswurds 8 Feb 2013, 7:06pm

    …. … .. .. and rightly so. The number of perverts dressing up as pretend women in order to get access to women in toilets and other areas reserved exclusively for women and girls is frightening. It is doubly right that he was thrown out if in fact he still has his male bits which a lot of these creeps do.
    This is why we have segregated toilet facilities for men and women.

    1. Well done misgendering her and advocating for violence against transgender people. The imagined danger to women of men dressing as women for perverted reasons is nowhere near the very real danger trans people face on a day to day basis.

      1. ...Paddyswurds 8 Feb 2013, 8:10pm

        The usual trannie tactic of accusing me of advocating violence. No where did is utter anything that could be construed by a rational being as violent. As for misgendering, a word not to be found in any English dictionary,; another trannie concept, i called him what he is and what he will still be if he is dug up in a thousand years. A man…end of. He was politely asked to remove himself from the ladies toilets as any man rightly would. He refused and had to be forcibly removed…that is hardly violence, except maybe on his part for not obeying the designated security of the school…. Also the school security had no proof that this was a “genuine trannie” and assumed rightly in absence of that that the dude was simply a pervert….

        1. Where do you get the idea that anyone was politely asked to leave the toilets? The article states that she was attacked by two girls. The security were called to deal with the two offenders who attacked the trans woman. You seem to be asserting that she was in the wrong and was removed by security. That was not the case.

          And she is NOT a ‘dude’ or a ‘pervert’.

          1. friday jones 9 Feb 2013, 12:34am

            Paddy is a regular troll here. He didn’t even read the article apparently. Obviously, since the real story was that two students physically assaulted Alexis and Alexis very generously declined to press charges against them after she called Security and the Security officer informed the two students who assaulted Alexis that University policy specifically allowed Alexis the use of that bathroom.

            I would have pressed charges. Touching a trans woman’s chest without consent is sexual assault.

          2. Touching any womans chest without consent is an offence. Alexis deserves the same respect for her body as any other woman.

          3. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 2:18pm

            Again presumption. not everyone who is aware of this incident of attention seeking had to read it in a news story…. Use your tiny addled brains ffs…..

          4. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 2:22pm

            …except that a man with moobies is not a woman and should not have invaded the privacy of a LADIES toilet… He is a DUDE and He is a pervert by definition of any man wishing to perv on women in a toilet….

          5. Paddy, are you claiming to have first hand knowledge of this incident? Do you live in Leeds? Were you at the event where the incident occured? If not, then you know no more than the rest of us, through second hand sources,

          6. And your definition of a perv and a pervert is objectionable, paddy. Alexis did not invade anything. She is the victim of a nasty attack, and you are compounding the nastiness with your small-minded attitude.

        2. First off; don’t assume I am transgender, which you obviously do. Wether I am transgender or cisgender has nothing to do with scientific fact and decades of medical knowledge. You are, quite simply, wrong. Don’t derail discussions that call you on your obvious faults.

          The headline of the article is that she was abused and shoved. Your comment is that it was done rightly so. That is advocating for violence. If you don’t see that, something is terribly wrong with you.

          That a word is not in “any English dictionary” does not invalidate the word. Dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive. Dictionaries sometimes can’t keep up with the evolution of language. “Trannie” is not in “any English dictionary” either. Furthermore, it is an offensive word, which you surely know, as you are obviously only commenting to offend and cause harm. Not to understand of to have a meaningful discussion.

          You also seem to misunderstand the difference between sex (male/female) and gender (man/woman).

          1. In the dictionary on my bookshelf, trannie is short for transistor radio. A dictionary proves nothing. But paddyswurds seems to be proving himelf a very nasty person.

            I still don’t know who April Ashley is or why she is being paraded as some kind of example of why we should dislike trans people. Can anyone enlighten me?

          2. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 4:31pm

            …wrong. A transistor radio is shortened to Tranny. ..According to my Concise Oxford Dictionary a Trannie is short for Trans dresser or Trans sexual. You obviously own a PC so use it . Google is a wonderful tool for the ill educated and ill informed and you fall into both categories….

      2. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 4:56pm

        i don’t find that in my oxford or collins dictionary you lieing nasty troll

    2. Alexis Starr 8 Feb 2013, 7:34pm

      You’re going to get real far with that attitude…anyone and everyone you know could be trans.

      1. ...Paddyswurds 8 Feb 2013, 8:26pm

        An ageist comment if ever i saw one. You have no idea of how old i am or how far I will go or indeed if in fact I have already been far and this “attitude” has been of no consequence whatever. You made the classic trannie mistake of assuming anyone other than a trannie or someone into trannies would give a flying phuck what i thought of the whole trannie castration fetish thing. To answer your last part the only trannie I ever met that I was sure was a trannie is probably most to blame for my attitude to the trans fetish, and that was none other than April Ashley who turned out to be a vile bitter homophobe who berated me for being happy with being Gay and also happy with the partner who accompanied me to the event where I had the unfortunate luck to meet Ashley. I expected to meet a happy contented trans person but instead met a bitter, unhappy being who was neither man or woman and blamed the entire world for his woes…

        1. The reason you give for your attitude is frank and honest, but can you see that it’s irrational?

          I can and do give an unfavourable impression to other people sometimes when they meet me. I hope no-one will use any bad impression that they pick up from meeting me to form a ludicrous, hurtful generalisation that all other gay men like me are merely exercising some “fetish thing”.

          Please, Paddyswurds, don’t take the damaging ignorance which most readers of this news site have to deal with in other people (as I’m sure you do too) and use it against another group. Accept that some people are not the gender which they were physically born as, and accept people’s right to be who they truly are.

          1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 2:38pm

            @Brian-E …
            … I would much prefer we in the GLB community weren’t associated with this particular group and their unending whine and whinge and frankly the sick spectacles of chicks with d!cks and pregnant men which does us no favours and only serves to paint us all with the same brush of disgust which for our particular condition is a false…. Thank you for your lone reasoned response.. unusual on a thread of this kind.
            I do accept that ther exists a condition of body dismorphia but medical science has not yet worked out a successful means of treatment. Mutilation and castration clearly is not the answer because the only part of the body dismorphic is the brain . Mutilation and castration is only a cosmetic change and the body remains genetically and otherwise a man or woman. As i have said before If a trans person is dug up in a thousand years and is examined what do you think the result would be. Of course, they would be identified as what they were born.

        2. You seem to have an awful lot of prejudice against a lot of people on the basis of one bad encounter. I don’t know who April Ashley is so there is no point in trashing her name around here, but I do wonder what her side of the story is. Perhaps she thought you were unpleasant.

        3. LadySpitfire 8 Feb 2013, 10:54pm

          Actually, you alluded to your age above…

          1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 2:41pm


        4. friday jones 9 Feb 2013, 12:37am

          So if I met a gay man who was rude to me, by your standards I could assume from that point on that all gay men were fetishistic pervert assholes who hate the Universe? You can’t see that shitty form of prejudice for what it is?

      2. Relax babe. It’s just that idiot Paddy again. He met April Ashley once and now hates all of us. Should be something in the DSM that covers him lol. April Ashley disassociative transference disease lol.

        1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 2:49pm

          Wrong on all counts except on Ashley. I looked forward to meeting “her” and was disappointed to meet a dour bitter homophobe who was at war with herself and the entire world. it certainly was not my attitude that made her be rude and openly homophobic as i was then quite shy and wall flowerish and had no opinion on her condition whatever. i was only 18 ffs. Perhaps she resented my obvious ease with my homosexuality and quite obvious good looks but that we will now never know….

          1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 2:59pm

            jesus paddy you are an idiot.

          2. Wait a second here, so all this trans-hate is over a 40 some year old grudge with one rape-survivor who allegedly was homophobic.

        2. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 7:29pm

          If you construe what is my rational realistic opinion as hatred or prejudice you are completely wrong and are quite possibly being wilfully disingenuous. i have no emotional connection with this subject whatever. I am a realist and rationally describe as I clearly see what as reality…..

          1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 7:30pm


          2. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 7:47pm

            given the amount of hate you spew forth i very much doubt that

          3. Ben Foster 9 Feb 2013, 11:38pm

            ” I am a realist….”

            No, you’re just a transphobe, Paddy, and shame on you as a gay man.

          4. Paddy, I’ve often wondered if you have aspergers. Am I right?

    3. theotherone 8 Feb 2013, 10:54pm


      yea right paddy

    4. theotherone 8 Feb 2013, 11:02pm

      you’re so right paddy – i spent four years getting insulted by medics who questioned how i dressed and wanted to know every detail of my sex life, daily threats of violence, being thrown out of job after job and going through an operation which had a painful three month recovery period just so i could go into women’s toilets.

      you idiot

    5. What’s the matter paddy? Do pre operative trans women make you feel inadequate?

      1. ...Paddyswurds 11 Feb 2013, 5:54pm


    6. Joseph oz 9 Feb 2013, 6:21am

      Ah… Paddy, you are lucky…
      You were born in the right body and you feel comfortable there…
      Not everyone is as lucky as you…

    7. backwards idiot!

    8. what you are saying you crappy man….IS A CRIMINAL: OFFENCE!

      1. ...Paddyswurds 11 Feb 2013, 5:58pm

        Talking shyte about the Law hardly advances your argument. I have stated nothing but fact. I didn’t, unlike some of the pretend women on this thread, call anyone name or be personally offensive in any way. I know a lot more about the Law and the Law on the internet than you will ever know were you to live to 100 years old….. You make a great companion to the troll Theotherone.

  9. Alexis Starr 8 Feb 2013, 7:33pm

    Hey, thanks for all your kind words. I’m good friends with the security staff, so I usually never have an issue, as I’m out to everyone! I expect this stuff to happen for a while until my hair grows out. It’s seriously irritating when this happen’s at Queen’s Court though…I mean, seriously?

    1. Alison Pryde-Fields 10 Feb 2013, 6:22pm

      I used to be the LGBT officer at Leeds Trinity, once upon a while ago, and thankfully we have a much stronger presence and voice than we did some years back. It is still disappointing to hear of incidents like this happening in this day ad age. Hopefully this was a one-off and those who started it will realise their mistake in due course.

      Brghtest Blessings x


  10. This is a difficult one, because if I saw someone who looked male in the girls’ bathroom I’d be angry too.
    Forcing someone who seems to be male to leave the women’s bathroom is acceptable, especially when you consider just how frequent rape and sexual assault is on campus.

    It’s the main reason I support having gender neutral toilets as well as gendered ones.

    I hope the young lady involved is okay though.

    1. Alexis Starr 8 Feb 2013, 7:36pm

      Doing just fine! I’m waiting for my hair to grow out! Frustrating! Though laser and HRT are working great!

      1. good luck alexis…..breeds like paddyswurds and joe smoe will die out soon….with a bit of luck

    2. HOW frequent is rape and assault on campus? It has never happened at the university I went to, and I can’t imagine it is any more frequent than any other place in an average town. You make going to university sound a very dangerous thing, which I really don’t think it is.

      Gender neutral toilets are a good idea. I think there ought to be more of them everywhere, in shopping centres, clubs, bus stations, if only to stop this sort of nastiness. But in the meantime, a little common courtesy for all would help. There was no call for these girls to behave that way. Within all ladies toilets are private cubicles and nobody ought to see anything they shouldn’t see of anybody else. There is no need for this behaviour.

      1. One in 4 university-aged women report experiences that meet the legal definitions of rape or attempted rape.

        One in 5 women are raped during their university years.

        ONE IN FOUR! Yes, I do feel that I have the right to get funny when someone who appears to be male comes into a female toilet. This is not a transphobic attack, this is simply several girls feeling very threatened and defending themselves from a perceived threat. Sexual assault is very prevalent and yes, uni is a dangerous time. Good for you, you don’t think it is. Why don’t you go and tell the rape/sexual assault survivors to shut up because university isn’t that dangerous? Obviously their experience is wrong.

        1. Those statistics refer to Amerian colleges. I found them online, too. We’re talking about the UK, and being raped on campus is not an issue women worry about here. This IS a transphobic attack. They were NOT defending themselves from a perceived threat.

          And don’t try to make out that I am unsympathetic to rape victims. But rape and sexual assault are NOT as common as you are making out. Women go to university, go to work, go to leisure facilities, every day without fear of rape. What do youi think we’re all doing, scuttling around like frightened rabits with a panic alarm and mace in either hand? Look around any unversity campus, any workplace, any high street. Women are not living in fear like you suggest. I think you need to calm down a bit.

          1. I think it’s funny, Rosie, that you feel you get to say that rape isn’t something women in the UK worry about.

            As a women I don’t want someone who looks like a man in my bathroom. There are reasons for having separate sex bathrooms and yes, I would find someone who appears to be male being in a bathroom for women scary and suspicious.

            This lady was not attacked because she is trans, she was attacked because she looked male and was in the female bathroom.

            In the UK the reported stats look like this:
            Around 1 in 10 women (9.7%) said they had experienced some form of sexual victimisation (including rape) since age 16.

            • Around 1 in 20 women (4.9%) said they had been raped on at least one occasion since age 16.

            • The BCS estimates that approximately three-quarters of a million women (754,000) have been raped on at least one occasion since age 16. This includes approximately 61,000 victimised in the last year.

            Still think fear isn’t a valid motivator in this case?

          2. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 6:00pm

            why is the threat of rape always flagged up around gender variant people?

          3. I don’t think it’s being brought up because of the victim was trans but because Ellie rightly or wrongly supposes that the two girls did not know she was trans and thought she was a man (I don’t really know why Ellie is so sure this is the case)

            I don’t think that Ellie is arguing that all trans women are rapists who shouldn’t be allowed to wee with women but two different arguments seem to have been muddled together

            “As a women I don’t want someone who looks like a man in my bathroom. There are reasons for having separate sex bathrooms and yes, I would find someone who appears to be male being in a bathroom for women scary and suspicious.”

            I don’t think I’d become hysterical if I found a man in a woman’s toilet, unless his behaviour was suspicious in another way. I’d assume there was probably a good reason for him being there ie. broken mens; toilet attendant etc. If I was suspicious I’d leave asap and find a security guard. Confronting potential rapists is probably not recommended

          4. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 7:38pm

            ….”Rosie” saying such is again proof that being Trans doesn’t make you think like a woman. No man no matter how mutilated his body can possibly think like a woman. He is a MAN! He wouldn’t have barged into a woman’s toilet while looking (by his own admission) like a man in drag if he thought like a woman….

          5. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 7:44pm

            so what is ‘thinking like a woman?’ are you, a man, going to tell women how to think and act paddy?

            as to the rape thing: this surfaces every time toilets are mentioned, time and time again – it’s a claim that trans women are rapists. not sure what trans men are under that system though…

          6. Paddy – I’m not saying that I don’t view this young lady as female. I do because she IS female. I’m merely pointing out that if this lady looks male then the girls in question had every right to be angry and surprised at her being in the bathroom. If they didn’t know her gender identity then I think this was merely a case of exuberance.

            Now, if they knew she was trans and still hurt her, then that is a totally different matter and I find that disgusting. That truly is a crime and deserves to be treated as such.

        2. Incidentally, ‘university-aged women’ is a strange term. ANYONE can go to university at any age. There is no such thing as a ‘university-aged woman’.

          1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 7:43pm

            Being pedantic is hardly an acceptable means of advancing your argument. 99.99999% of students are usually of an average or usual age; post 17. We all can’t be Sheldon Cooper.

          2. Your statistic is completely wrong, Paddy. Mature students make up a very significant number of university students in the UK. Lifelong learning is encouraged. You should try it sometime instead of assuming you know everything.

        3. Paddy seems to be assumng I am trans because I have defended trans people. Assuming a great deal. I could be a gay man with a preference for a shade of pink, a lesbian woman with a nicely feminine name, a straight woman with a gay child who wants to understand his point of view. It is none of his business which I am. My opinion is just as valid as his and he should stick to what he knows.

          And Ellie, you need to get help if you are really that scared of being attacked by men. It is far from normal to be that worried. The majority of straight men have no interest in committing sex crimes and trans women have no interest in doing anything to you at all.

    3. friday jones 9 Feb 2013, 12:41am

      So you would force a butch woman to leave the bathroom? Would you force Kadijah Farmer out of the bathroom because she doesn’t fit your criteria for not “seeming male?” What are you doing on an LGBT site again? Teaching, or learning?

      1. Neither. Voicing my opinion. Or can I not say that I would feel very uncomfortable in a bathroom is someone who appeared to be male walked in?

        Maybe you’ve never faced sexual assault, and never been scared to use the bathroom: good for you, pity it’s not like that for everyone. EVERYONE should have the right to feel safe – cis or trans.

        1. We’re not talkign about a BATHROOM where somebody is going to take down their knickers in front of you. We’re talking about public toilets with seperate cubicles. The only thing the trans person would be doing outside of the cubicle is washing their hands, combing hair, fixing make up. How is that offensive or threatening?

          1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 4:29pm

            it is to allot of people or so it would seem

        2. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 7:49pm

          Voicing your opinion on threads such as this is absolutely not allowed, don’t ya know Ellie. You will be bullied and screamed at and accused of being transphobic, and that is the least of the accusations you will get levelled at you especially by the less intellectual like theotherone and others….

          1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 7:52pm

            yup because advocation violence against a minority isn’t phobic at all, it’s criminal (literally, under hate speech legislation)

    4. Ellie, I completely understand your sentiments. I’m a transguy, and I get this treatment quite often because I’m not quite comfortable enough using the men’s room, but I obviously look like a guy. The college campus closest to me does not have gender-neutral bathrooms, so it is always a gamble going into either – both because women tend to be frightened of a guy in their space and because I have been sexually assaulted in the men’s room.

      I mean no disrespect to Alexis, and I understand her sentiments too: a person should be able to use the bathroom proscribed for their gender identity. I also don’t quite agree with you, Ellie, that forcing a perceived man out of the bathrooms through violence is in order. The best course of action these girls could have taken was to report it to the campus security, and when the security officers showed up, Alexis could have explained her situation (thankfully, most of the cis-women at my school follow this rule). But I do appreciate your honesty.

  11. Women have a perfect right to push men out of female toilets.

    1. yes, but they don’t have the right to push transgender women out.

      1. but isn’t the point that they weren’t aware she was a transgender woman until it was explained to them?… and as Alexis herself says- she chooses to dress in a masculine way… there are bound to be times when people get confused.

        Unisex toilets are the only way to go just to get rid of territorial pissing in a pot.

        1. Alexis herself said that she is ‘out’ to everyone. She is known within the university, to the security people, to staff and students. I don’t buy that excuse for their violent behaviour.

          1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 4:47pm

            Someone who looks like Frank Gallagher in drag can hardly be assumed to be transgender…..

          2. That Alexis thinks “everyone” knows about his condition is the sign of a deluded mind. I should think that the majority of students are completely unaware of his existence, and most of those that are are indifferent to him.

      2. How were they supposed to know she’s trans?

        1. Who cares? They should have had more courtesy. What had she done to them?

          1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 4:52pm

            They challenged her and were met with the usual tirade of abuse and invective one gets from these deluded people when challenged…. They all think they look like Sofia Loren. Apparently they, for obvious reasons, abhor mirrors..

          2. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 5:03pm

            and you know this how paddy?

          3. So it’s okay for people who look like men to be in the women’s bathroom and go unchallenged?

          4. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 5:37pm

            so you determine a person’s rite not to be attacked based on aesthetic principles?

          5. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 8:03pm

            He was NOT attacked. His “breasts” were groped by the two girls when he started screaming transphobe at them and asserting that he was a woman which he clearly was not in either sound of his voice or visage!

          6. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 8:12pm

            and groping someone’s breasts is not assault?

          7. ...Paddyswurds 11 Feb 2013, 6:04pm

            Men don’t have breasts. They pectoral muscles…..

          8. ...Paddyswurds 11 Feb 2013, 6:04pm


  12. Helge Vladimir Tiller 8 Feb 2013, 10:40pm

    Please, dear friends ! Respect transgender and transsexual persons for what they are.They are as beautiful as anyone else- and have the very same value !! ( A persons gender identity resides between the ears, not between the legs-

    1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 4:59pm

      I have the same respect for all the deluded, be it religious trans or whatever, none, and i have zero emotional baggage invested in such delusion. I am first and last a realist. and everything I say on the this or any other delusion carries no emotion whatever …it is just rational opinion, like it or not. Abuse and invective won’t change my mind or opinion and such abuse just runs off me like water off a duck!.

      1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 5:02pm

        oh look, paddy’s looking like a fool again

      2. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 8:08pm

        Respect has to be earned. it is not handed out gratis. “chicks with d!cks or pregnant men” is hardly a means of earning even a modicum of respect!

        1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 8:55pm

          and indeed for you is an excuse to engage in violence against people:

          …Paddyswurds 4 MINUTES AGO REPORT 0
          No woman should be “smacked around” as you so knowingly put it and in this case the pretend “woman” was NOT smacked around either although a man who has invaded the privacy of a womens toilet and refuses to leave deserves a smack…. I would do it myself and I abhor violence.

        2. so when do you “earn” yours?

      3. Tara Hewitt 10 Feb 2013, 1:09am

        Paddy thank you for showing how stupid many ignorant predjudice people are!

  13. friday jones 9 Feb 2013, 12:45am

    Perhaps they should have used their words instead of putting their hands on another person first. A little chat could have ended with all three being on friendly terms without the shoving and without needing to call the Security officer. That’s why we have laws against assault and battery, to encourage people to use their words instead of their hands on each other.,

  14. Staircase2 9 Feb 2013, 3:16am

    This whole uptight notion of gender based toilets is a nonsense.

    Anyone who has experience of going out in the gay scene during the 90s knows that everyone felt at liberty to use any available toilet regardless of gender.

    The issue isn’t what gender someone is which creates safety issues, but their behaviour surely…

    1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 8:15pm

      Perhaps we should return to the Roma toilet plan where we all sit side by side and use a sponge on a stick dipped in the open sewer to cleanse ourselves in full public view. Why is this not surprising coming from you….? How can anyone predict behaviour?.
      It is way too late once the pervert has gained access and is already attacking someone surely.

      1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 8:15pm


      2. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 8:24pm

        can you provide evidence of the widespread abuse of women n toilets by gender variant people paddy?


        thought not

      3. Adele Magee 9 Feb 2013, 10:35pm

        perhaps that isn’t a totally stupid idea. Then people would stop being hung up about genitalia. But I am rather sure those Roman toilets were only for men – that would be their concept of ‘real’ men. Women, slaves and eunuchs would have to go somewhere else.

        1. Adele Magee 10 Feb 2013, 3:20am

          I don’t mean hung up about genitalia in the sense Paddy implied. I’m not accusing anyone of ‘castration fetish’. I mean the way oeople get upset about the sight of genitalia. Thousands of years of conditioning – since Roman loos went out of fashion – have made us feel that such things should be hidden, but we all have genitalia. We should stop worrying about it. Then it wouldn’t matter who has what and this sort of thing might not happen so much.

          1. Adele Magee 10 Feb 2013, 3:23am

            Actually, I think I’ve dug a big enough hole now. I think I’ll stop digging. Pay no attention to these last couple of posts.

  15. Alexis does not look like a woman, does not have breasts and makes no way shape or attempt to be “trans” so at a busy night luje fruity thectwo girls probably thoughtvthey were up against a drunken straight idiot

    1. Alexis Starr 10 Feb 2013, 3:21pm

      And you know how I look? Have you ever met me? I shouldn’t have to be a drag queen to assert my gender.

    2. Keira (Proud Trans Girl) 10 Feb 2013, 4:28pm

      Ink.. this is precisely the type of ignorance that we as trans people do not need to deal with, for all you know Alexis may be at the very start of her transition process and hence may not have the full resources at her disposal

  16. Men should not be in woman’s toilets – end of .So-called ‘trans – woman’ , a man who deceives himself he has ‘changed sex’ through mutilation and his own self disgust from his unchangeable gender should perhaps use the disabled toilet and leave women in peace and unmolested .Feel even sadder for the people who go along with the Emperors New Clothes fantasy and call him a ‘she’ and a ‘woman’ – a sad parody and an insult to women . I’m with the female students in this .

    1. Disabled people should have a better deal than they do, too. They are already the ‘third sex’ when it comes to toilet provision in public places. And you think trans people should be shunted off into the seperate facilities, too. Not good enough.

      And your attitude to trans issues shows that you’re in need of educating along with Paddy and some others.

    2. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 2:52pm

      i love it when a man defines what is female.

      1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 5:17pm

        That’s rich coming from you. You are a MAN defining what you think is female ….you! Deluded much… A man pretending to be a woman by getting castrated is hardly the definition of a woman…..sheesh!

        1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 5:19pm

          oh dear paddy, you really can’t help but look stupid can you?

          1. Not to mention vicious. What a deeply unpleasant excuse for a human. Or troll. Either way, an arrogant moron who presumes to know better than a considerable number of substantially more intelligent people on trans issues, all because a trans person hurt his feelings decades ago. It’s time to put your toys back in the pram and grow up, you infantile narcissist.

    3. Tara Hewitt 10 Feb 2013, 1:08am

      As a Trans women Ray would you like to come say that to me in person instead of from behind the cowerdly comfort of your computer screen. Very sad to see such ignorance arrogance and plain abuse from people. Take a long hard look at your self because all your bringing to the world is hate and bitterness and thats all youll get in return!

    4. and you ray are a backdated insult to your gender……if you think behaviour of this kind is acceptable

  17. I am frankly disgusted by the way some gay people here have behaved towards trans people. The term is LGBT. We are ALL in the same fight against the prejudices of the sort of people trotting out that nonsense about satan etc. It is awful to think that a gay or lesbian person who has experienced prejudice themselves should pass on that prejudice to trans people. We are not a link in some descending chain of human worth. We are ALL equal. It’s time to behave that way. Some commentators on this page ought to be thoroughly ASHAMED of themselves.

    1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 2:55pm

      but they won’t and don’t – the same people forced butch and femme women out of lesbian space and effeminate men from gay men’s space, they’ve got a long history of this

      1. Well, I for one am sorry for that. It has to change, starting with condemnation of those attitudes in comment pages like this, and in the real world, too.

    2. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 5:31pm

      The GLB struggle bears no relation whatever to what Trans people are going through. Why do you think it necessary to latch on to GLB community when there is no reason to do so. Form your own group and stay well away from the Gay community and then you can be as deluded as you like. In the meantime you must be prepared to be, in my case anyway, told the truth as i see it I accept your condition but i totally reject the idea that mutilation of your body will make you a man or a woman. It just simply is not so. Mutilation is cosmetic only and you will remain a woman in a mans body or vice versa. The truth in what i say was vividly represented by the Beatty idiot in California who got pregnant twice no less while sporting a hormone induced beard and claiming to be a man. Reality cannot be brushed under the rug just to be PC… well not for this rational being anyway!

      1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 5:33pm

        and ‘being told the truth’ is suffering physical assault?

        do you think all women should be smacked around or just the ones you don’t like?

        1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 8:28pm

          No woman should be “smacked around” as you so knowingly put it and in this case the pretend “woman” was NOT smacked around either although a man who has invaded the privacy of a womens toilet and refuses to leave deserves a smack…. I would do it myself and I abhor violence.

          1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 8:31pm

            so you admit to not only thinking trans people should be attacked but that you would do it yourself – what a star you are paddy, a violent transphobe

          2. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 8:34pm

            actually let me quote you on that threat of violence:

            …Paddyswurds 4 MINUTES AGO REPORT 0
            No woman should be “smacked around” as you so knowingly put it and in this case the pretend “woman” was NOT smacked around either although a man who has invaded the privacy of a womens toilet and refuses to leave deserves a smack…. I would do it myself and I abhor violence.

            —the mask’s slipping paddy

          3. You are disgusting. You make me ashamed to be a gay man. Your views are vile. You’re no different than those neo-nazi fascists except you happened to be born gay. I bet if you were straight you’d be just as hateful towards gay people, but you aren’t so you take your hate out on people “lower down” than you. Disgusting sexist cisgendered bigot.

      2. Cute. Again; decades of medical knowledge disagree with your petty assumptions. As you said yourself; google is a tool for the ill informed. How about you use it for once to figure out the difference between gender and sex.

        It’s so sad you are so hateful and try to disguise at as being rational and truthful. Every expert will tell you you are wrong.

        1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 8:42pm

          I am simply not interested in self aggrandising claptrap or indeed lectures from the severely deluded. I think that at this stage of my life I know what gender is, nor do I make assumptions. …. I have yet to mention sex so I am mystified as to what you are referring Decades of medical knowledge inserted industrial silicone in the Mammary glands of thousands of women, pretend women and even some men, resulting in the deaths of some and disfigurement of thousands….Medical knowledge is in constant flux and
          upgrade as will be readily admitted by most Doctors….. Medical knowledge once “bled” the sick in the mistaken belief that it would cure the “ague”
          Anyone who claims to be an expert is the one person one should run a mile from. There are people who believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old and say my assertion of Evolution is wrong too.

          1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 8:46pm

            you know all about telling me what you would do to me given half a chance though paddy:

            …Paddyswurds 4 MINUTES AGO REPORT 0
            No woman should be “smacked around” as you so knowingly put it and in this case the pretend “woman” was NOT smacked around either although a man who has invaded the privacy of a womens toilet and refuses to leave deserves a smack…. I would do it myself and I abhor violence.

      3. Tara Hewitt 10 Feb 2013, 1:11am

        Paddy I am sure there are many LGB people who want NO association with you and your hate so please dont “tag” yourself onto the end of LGBT as your not welcome!

      4. rational…my backside!

      5. @…Paddyswurds
        Never heard of the Stonewall riots?

        “I accept your condition but”. Can you actually hear your own voice? Unbelievable.

    3. But why is the term LGBT? Beings trans isn’t a sexuality. It’s a gender identity. Why does being trans have anything to do with the struggles of the gay community?
      I support equality for everyone, but why is being transgender connected to being bi-sexual, gay or a lesbian? They’re nothing the same.

      1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 5:38pm

        the abuse and discrimination comes from the same source plus many of us are bi gay and lesbian.

        1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 8:52pm

          A very small minority are Gay Bi or Lesbian. They are usually those who rejected being Gay in the first place and were so homophobic and self hating that they thought if as a man attracted to men they would be acceptable as a woman and so went the castration route. Same with homophobic women and they are even more tragic given that they are usually left with their unwanted Female genitalia… Fortunately we have yet to be assaulted with the unedifying spectacle of transplanted penis’

          1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 9:10pm

            and to quote you paddy:

            …Paddyswurds 4 MINUTES AGO REPORT 0
            No woman should be “smacked around” as you so knowingly put it and in this case the pretend “woman” was NOT smacked around either although a man who has invaded the privacy of a womens toilet and refuses to leave deserves a smack…. I would do it myself and I abhor violence.

          2. Actually, genital surgery for female to male transgenders (FTM) is possible. Try getting your facts straight before you post your abuse

          3. What the f*ck do you know about it? Unless you are transgender, an expert in a gender clinic, or a close ally, you have to start shutting up NOW.

          4. ...Paddyswurds 11 Feb 2013, 6:10pm

            …I will shut up when I am good and ready. WEho the phuck do you think you are, the page editor?

        2. theotherone – Okay, I take your point at it coming from the same source. I hadn’t thought of it in that way. I’ve always viewed them as more separate issues, being face by separate people.

          I have no experience as a trans person, I thought transphobic people were another breed all together.

          1. theotherone 10 Feb 2013, 8:54pm

            i always point out at this point that when you’re walking down the street and someone shouts ‘poof’ or ‘dyke’ at you they’re not reacting to your sexuality as such but to the way you look, how you measure up against a ‘real’ man or woman – gender is the route cause of homophobia.

      2. The struggle of a trans person to be accepted for their true gender is very similar to the struggle of a LGB person to be accepted for who they are and whom they love. It’s a matter of our identity and being allowed to be who we really are. I think this similarity marks the problems of being LGB and the problems of being Trans in an unaccepting society out from other groups which experience discrimination.

        I do agree with you that gender identity and sexual orientation have little or nothing to do with each other. But I think it makes sense to pool resources and for LGB people to stand in solidarity with Trans people since the latter are a tiny minority in comparison and their degree of acceptance in society is far less advanced.

        1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 9:03pm

          I totally accept the concept of gender dysphoria but also reject totally the idea that body mutilation is the answer or cure. That that is a tragedy for those afflicted is clear but being disingenuous or administering what is also just short term placebo is not the answer. Perhaps one day drugs or the means to change genetic makeup will be discovered but I fear that would not necessarily satisfy these people.

          1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 10:39pm

            and we all know what would make you happy right paddy? smacking some people:

            …Paddyswurds 4 MINUTES AGO REPORT 0
            No woman should be “smacked around” as you so knowingly put it and in this case the pretend “woman” was NOT smacked around either although a man who has invaded the privacy of a womens toilet and refuses to leave deserves a smack…. I would do it myself and I abhor violence.

          2. Andrew/Andrea 10 Feb 2013, 5:12pm

            Paddy, as you have said before, medical health is always being updated. And the latest update is that gender identity disorder is not a mental problem, but a disease. This issue starts in the womb, when the person isn’t even fully developed. The brain develops towards the sex/gender it believes the body will be, because of different causes. Some not as severe as others. But all in all, trans people are the gender they identify as. Just because they were born with the wrong parts and want that fixed, you criticize them. You clearly have not realized the flaw in your own argument. You admitted yourself that you may be wrong without realizing it. And by 2020, or about then, trans people will be able to actually fully transition, reproductive organs will be able to be made using their own DNA through stem cell research. I follow this science closely, and I believe it would be in your best interests to open up and be less closed minded about these things. I know who I am thank you.

          3. Paddyswurds, have you ever heard of the intersex condition? Where anatomy/chromosomes/hormonal make-up are not binary? For instance, I am a chromosomal/anatomical female, and yet my hormone levels are that of a male (and no, I am not on any hormone replacement therapy. I have what is called congenital adrenal hyperplasia). It happens in 1 out of 66 adult females, and some of them are “transgender” because of it. There is also androgen insensitivity syndrome, Kleinfelter’s syndrome (XXY), Turner’s syndrome (XO), and many others. The intersex condition happens in about 1/1,660 individuals, most of which were born with it. Most lead happy lives as the gender they were proscribed at birth, but some do not, and some have the misfortune of not having a choice which binary sex their parents choose for them (in the case of genital ambiguity) at the time of birth.

          4. I don’t think it is possible to have a sensible discussion with facts such andrea and devian have put forward when Paddy starts goes off on his transphobic rant.

          5. ...Paddyswurds 11 Feb 2013, 6:24pm

            Thank you for a sensitive and informative comment without the usual emotional claptrap spouted by some on this thread. Yes i am aware of the condition and have read of the others you mention and I know it can be tragic when the wrong gender is chosen by parents or forced on them by insensitive doctors.
            As i have stated several times in this thread, I do accept the conditions of body dysphoria and others. My problem is in acceptying that mutilating the body in an effort to become what is in the brain is not the answer and this is borne out by the fact that so many trans find that after transition they are not what they expected and often end up killing themselves because of the pain and complications experienced by many and an abiding sense of foreboding. This is why there is such a long and detailed counselling period before transition. t is rarely the answer. For this i have great sympathy but there is a small rump of trans who are militant and refuse to recognise reality

    4. I completely reject the addition of the T to LGB. It is quite another matter.

  18. The violent aspect to this incident is barbaric.

    Whether we like it or not the majority of born-males and born-females would probably start at the sight of someone who does not look stereotypically masculine or feminine within their respective toilets. That’s far better than the verbal or physical abuse that was probably guaranteed a decade ago, but I can imagine trans people still notice the glaces. That’s the reality out there when you leave The Guardian bubble.

    You can condemn these girls whilst simultaneously pointing out that the average person who knows little about LGBT, and at best only knows people who are LGB, hasn’t really been forewarned that this may happen. For years campaigns have been telling born-females to be assertively alert in toilets & parks against potential attacks. I’ve seen no campaigns telling born-females that transitioning individuals may use the same facilities, and not to worry. The government has really let trans people down.

    Hope you’re okay Alexis.

    1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 9:05pm

      There was NO violence except in the head of the dude who invaded the privacy of a womens Toilet facility.

      1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 9:09pm

        well not for you as you advocate violence against trans people:

        …Paddyswurds 4 MINUTES AGO REPORT 0
        No woman should be “smacked around” as you so knowingly put it and in this case the pretend “woman” was NOT smacked around either although a man who has invaded the privacy of a womens toilet and refuses to leave deserves a smack…. I would do it myself and I abhor violence.

      2. Ben Foster 9 Feb 2013, 10:40pm

        How is it that you claim to know so much about what went on? Were you there? I don’t notice any mention of eye-witnesses.

        1. Average Man 10 Feb 2013, 12:44am

          Perhaps he was dressed as a girl in order to push an innocent transexual around.

          1. That’s a bit of a naughty thing to say, AM, but I can’t help a snigger.

  19. I find it somewhat ironic when cispeople attempt to excuse their transphobia by claiming that transpeople using the same toilet are a risk to them when, in fact, it’s the transperson who is the one most likely to be attacked by the cisperson and not the other way around! As here!

    Let’s face it though, folks: no matter how ‘educated’. ‘liberal’ and ‘enlightened’ privileged snobby upper class students might fantasize themselves to be – they’re still essentially the same sort of unsophisticated, unoriginal bigots who if they’d been around in the ’50s segregated deep south USA would similarly not want to share public facilities with someone else just because of the colour of their skin was different from theirs. It’s just that now, the groups that they are prejudiced against have changed.

    And to those guys saying that we, as transwomen, deserve to be assaulted by other women if we use the toilet: I’m sure you’d be the first to beat us up if we came in and used the men’s!

    1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 3:12pm

      yup because every transperson using toilets is a violent rapist…

      bigotry plain and simple.

      1. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 5:54pm

        Just like the Burqa controversy in France where no one knows whether the wearer is a male terrorist or a male bullied woman, how is anyone to know that a man in drag is a trannie or a pervert … especially one who admits to looking like a man in drag with short hair even. Ever heard of wigs? Set your emotional response aside and think rationally for a change if that is at all possible although the tone of this thread seems to indicate that trans folk are incapable of rational thought ….

        1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 5:57pm

          are you comparing me to a suicide bomber paddy?

          1. Ben Foster 9 Feb 2013, 8:46pm

            Apparently he is. His attitude is starting to resemble a Right wing Christian pulling out the incest card.

          2. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 8:48pm

            alas it’s worse. see my post below about him threatening violence

          3. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 9:15pm

            Ignorant troll. I am clearly comparing the disguise aspect of the Burqa and drag and unless you have the intelligence of an amoeba you would know that….. BTW I am an avowed non believer in the supernatural or deities.

          4. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 9:17pm

            but you do believe in violence as a tool of gender oppression:

            …Paddyswurds 4 MINUTES AGO REPORT 0
            No woman should be “smacked around” as you so knowingly put it and in this case the pretend “woman” was NOT smacked around either although a man who has invaded the privacy of a womens toilet and refuses to leave deserves a smack…. I would do it myself and I abhor violence.

        2. Ben Foster 9 Feb 2013, 11:32pm

          I’m not an ignorant troll and I know perfectly well that you are NOT a right wing Christian. I made a SIMILE. I said that you were LIKE one of those, comparing transexuals with suicide bombers the way the Christians compare gays and paedos, etc. Everyone else understood my meaning. You deliberately misread it.

        3. racist too paddy?….you are getting crappier by the minute……whats wrong didnt mummy love you enough when you were a baby?

    2. Helge Vladimir Tiller 9 Feb 2013, 4:51pm

      Dear Katie ! I do like Your comment. I wish my English could have been better and thus enable me to write more about this topic. ( several decades since I was in school ). But I send You lots of love and good wishes from Oslo and Norway !

    3. “no matter how ‘educated’. ‘liberal’ and ‘enlightened’ privileged snobby upper class students might fantasize themselves to be”
      It’s you that seem to be the fantasist – Leeds Uni is hardly the playground of the upper classes.

  20. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 8:36pm

    just incase anyone doubts paddyswurds is a violent transphobe…

    …Paddyswurds 4 MINUTES AGO REPORT 0
    No woman should be “smacked around” as you so knowingly put it and in this case the pretend “woman” was NOT smacked around either although a man who has invaded the privacy of a womens toilet and refuses to leave deserves a smack…. I would do it myself and I abhor violence.

    1. I certainly do get it. I am apalled by his behaviour. There are some othes with the same attitudes, but his is by far the worst. I’ve not been a member here for very long but it hasn’t taken long to find out that some people are very unpleasant.

      1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 9:15pm

        alas it is so but there are good people here too

      2. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 9:23pm

        “I’ve not been a member here for very long” …. and the soonest you leave again the better. we have enough deluded fools on this site without idiots like you and the liar above who wants men to be allowed free egress to women’s private facilities without sanction. Next thing he will be asking leave to invade women’s refuges.

        1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 9:25pm

          and you’ll be there with your fists of steel:

          …Paddyswurds 4 MINUTES AGO REPORT 0
          No woman should be “smacked around” as you so knowingly put it and in this case the pretend “woman” was NOT smacked around either although a man who has invaded the privacy of a womens toilet and refuses to leave deserves a smack…. I would do it myself and I abhor violence.

        2. ...Paddyswurds 9 Feb 2013, 9:28pm

          This whole thread is so making a mockery of women and how they should be protected from pervs and creeps who will use any and all means to invade their privacy…. Shocking given these people claim to be women. Again proof positive they are nothing of the sort and never ever will be….

          1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 9:30pm

            and the lgbt community should be protected from you as you are a self confessed violent transphobe

            indeed you’re the only one on here advocation violence

          2. and you ray are a backdated insult to your gender……if you think behaviour of this kind is acceptable

        3. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 9:28pm

          you know paddy i don’t know how you can post on this story given that you are a self confessed violent transphobe.

          in fact i don’t know how you can post on this site

        4. Don’t think you can bully me, Paddy. You clearly have a superior attitude to just about anyone, but you’re nothing but a bully in the end.

          1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 10:33pm

            i think he’s shown his true colours now.

            copy the statement where he talks about attacking trans people and whenever he opens his odious little mouth repost it.

          2. You know what the theory is, regarding bullies… They have a subconscious need to overcompensate for a feeling of insufficiency in an area of their life — either because they’re friendless, impotent, or have, aha, small genitals.

      3. Can we do nothing to ban that transphobic git from our forums? He is deliberately provocative, just to see reaction. I’ve taken to slagging him off on the gay forums, not very mature I know, but it gives me pleasure!!

        1. theotherone 10 Feb 2013, 8:50pm

          i think, since he’s openly asking for violence against gender variant people and saying he would take part in this violence the moderators must ask themselves if he’s a worthwhile person to have around

  21. With some of the comments on here, it is very clear how much discrimination transexuals face and encounter. Transexuals are NOT transvestites and of course transphobics always sling the ‘men dressing in frocks’ line as a slur against transexuals. I have many trans friends are they are not ‘men’ whether they still have their bits or not. Some people should try to educate themselves about the subject but unfortunately bigots never do that!

    1. There used to be an even worse one than paddy with the capital ‘P’ – what was her name, the lesbian from the deep south with the victim complex who used to insult trans at every opportunity with the same language addressed to her by others. A real nasty piece of work.

      1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 10:40pm

        ah i remember her but my memory has, thankfully, blocked out her name

    2. Adele Magee 9 Feb 2013, 10:48pm

      Hard to imagine there is WORSE than the way Paddy is behaving.

      1. theotherone 9 Feb 2013, 10:52pm

        pink news once carried a story about a friend of mine who is seeking asylum in sweden

        paddy’s response? send them back to russia to die because we don’t need trans women around.

        1. Adele Magee 9 Feb 2013, 11:39pm


      2. Tara Hewitt 10 Feb 2013, 1:12am

        Keyboard transphobes cowerdly behind a computer screen with their abuse its rather pathetic!

        1. I quite agree. I hope you understand that the opposition to that attitude is genuine, even though we are also behind a comuter screen. I am utterly disgusted by the behaviour of such people.

          1. Helge Vladimir Tiller 10 Feb 2013, 9:08am

            Lovely wishes to You too, RosieHue ( and to Tara Hewitt )People like you give optimism to many, many suppressed persons ( transgender or not )around the World !
            A warm hug from Helge V. T. —and Norway.

          2. you’re welcome, Heidi.

          3. Sorry, Heige, not Heidi, my fault.

          4. Helge, even! I think I should have gone to Specsavers!

          5. Helge Vladimir Tiller 10 Feb 2013, 3:03pm

            That’s perfectly all right, RosieHue. There is definitely a “little Heidi” in my personality-

  22. Candy Darling 10 Feb 2013, 9:45am

    Paddy’s deeply entrenched transphobia makes him sound like one of the doctors at the Gender Clinic at Charing Cross Hospital.

    1. I don’t know whether to be surprised or not at doctors in a Gender Clinic being unsympathetic to patients. It seems as if this is what trans people have to put up with and nobody is in any hurry to change things.

      1. theotherone 10 Feb 2013, 8:46pm

        that’s just one of the battles we face which i would love some help from the wider community with.

        if we could get the press to publish what happens to us in medical care it would cause a national scandal.

    2. he is also committing a crime with alot of the spew….why has no one reported the little “man” to the authorities?

    3. Julia Wilmott 15 Feb 2013, 3:30pm

      Fkin A.. little Aussie statement showing complete agreement and support :)

  23. Confused onlooker 10 Feb 2013, 2:30pm

    Can somebody (other than Paddy) explain what a transvestite is as opposed to a transgender or transexual. I always thought the words were interchangeable, but clearly I am wrong. I would genuinely appreciate the clarification.

    1. I’m not surprised you are confused because it is indeed complex. In simplistic terms a transvestite identifies as male but spends quite a bit of time expressing a deep feminine side as a woman. A crossdresser is sort of a less intensive tranvestite. A transexual identifies as the opposite of their birth sex, usually in the end living as the opposite of their birth sex (known as living full time). Transwomen usually take hormones and have operations to change thier bodies to match their true gender. If I had to draw the line I would say that as soon as you want to change you actual body in any way you are exhibiting some kind of transness.
      Transgender is an umberella term that covers everone above but that also included those with no gender, both genders, or any mix & combination of gender that does not entirely match the birth gender.
      Add to that intersex who may or may not idenitfy as transgender or transexual.

      1. a transvestite cross dresses for sexual gratification….generally
        someone who is intersexed may have both genitalia or be amale and produce oestrogen naturally or female and produce testosterone.

        1. You’re mostly right about transvestites (being often described as a fetish) but I know several that don’t do it for sexual reasons, living more and more as female but definitely identifying as male. There doesn’t seem to be any hard and fast rules on categorisation which is why the issue is so complex. I think categorisation is best left to the individual.

    2. Gwen got it for the most part, but there are non-op transgender people, such as myself and other. When talking about post-op, pre-op, or non-op, we speak about sexual reassignment surgery (SRS), and those who are pre- or post-op are definitely transsexual (across sex). Any others fall under the transgender umbrella.

      For example, I am a non-op transgender man. I am not a transsexual, but I am still a man.

  24. Some people have said that people who look like men shouldn’t be in the women’s toilets. But there are plnety of ciswomen who are slim and flat-chested and may look quite androgynous. should they be put out of the toilets for looking like a man? People really shouldn’t make assumptions.

  25. OMGG another reason why ppls need to be made of the equality act, Alexis huni I hope yas never have another incident like this, The transphobia thing is jus ridiculous, I know in time things will get better fer trans folk. I mean look at the racist stuff of the 50’s nd such, then there was all the gay shit… things ARE getting better, all be it slowly.

    To all ma transfriends out there chin up guys nd dolls, Karma will get the lil shits who bully

  26. that weird chick 10 Feb 2013, 4:47pm

    there is no excuse for transphobia. end of.

  27. One can’t help think back to that horrid article in a national, supposedly liberal, newspaper, practically calling cisfemale feminists to arms against transwomen. Disgusting. Could this be an ugly ripple effect? Alexis, hold your head up, I assure you, you have many allies x

    1. indeed she has…..the paddys of this world are not long for this world and should not be feared, but either ridiculed….or reported…..better both lol

    2. theotherone 10 Feb 2013, 8:43pm

      in my opinion yes: after that certain article i got allot more stick than normal and it’s still ongong

  28. I would urge anyone suffering this kind of abuse to REPORT, REPORT, REPORT to the police….find a diversity officer and talk to them….also GIRES…..this goes for all kinds of abuse…..verbal….physical…..and written. Paddy has repeatedly written things that are transphobic and should similarly be reported….I HOPE THAT ALEXIS DOES WELL AT UNI AND GOES ON TO BE THE PERSON SHE DESERVES TO BE…..this kind of nasty behaviour needs to stop!!!!

  29. Speaking as a Graduate of Leeds, and a trans woman too, I’m pleased the Union gets it. They managed to prevent an unpleasant situation from becoming worse (I also have nothing but praise for the Alumni dept at Leeds who have been faultlessly helpful to me)

  30. Alice Denny5 10 Feb 2013, 6:46pm

    Come on girls. You’re at University. Live at leeds takes on anew (ironic) meaning.

  31. Paddyswurds should be banned from commenting on trans stories. It’s disgusting the bile he writes on any trans news. He’s a trans troll. The hate he writes about trans issues is worse than any homophobe on this site and the pink news team need to address it.

    I think homophobes have issues with their sexuality – which makes them phobic.

    I think transphobes have issues with their gender identity. Sort you head out Paddy.

    1. agreed totally

    2. I so wish they would. He seems to have no self control where transwomen are concerned. Can’t help himself but utter reams of hate speech that would not be allowed for publication for any other minority. Pink News lift your game!

    3. It isn’t just trans stories, he trolls everywhere, he just seems even more offensive than usual when it comes to his comments on trans stories. And yes, he should be diciplined.

  32. I understand their concern with one who appears more masculine being in the female bathrooms, but violence isn’t the way to handle anything until it’s self-defense. Alexis didn’t hurt them at all by being in there and most certainly didn’t display any signs of wrong intentions- those girls were wrong to lay their hands on her or anyone else.

  33. The further down the road I go, the more ignorant people seem to come into my view. What does it matter if we are trans or no? What does it matter if we are gay, bi, lesbian, straight, or any of the various sexual preferences out there? It doesn’t matter because we are all human. I would like to see my GLB and trans friends have the same rights as I, a straight, ciswoman, do. That includes the right to urinate or defecate in a bathroom that reflects your gender identity without fear of being attacked. Who are we to say that a trans-woman is not a “real” woman? Who are we to say that a trans-man is not a “real” man? Who are we to say that they are wrong about their gender identity, that they are just confused? We are all human and we all came from the same place, whether you believe that to be a god or evolution. No one should feel inferior to another because of their sex, gender identity, sexuality, ethnicity, religious denomination, or even physical appearance.

    1. Helge Vladimir Tiller 10 Feb 2013, 9:05pm

      Very GOOD ! Beautiful comment including us all – We need eachother, we must understand eachother, we must help eachother. Being generous to our neighbour , grants energy and happiness in return-
      Thank You, Athene !
      ( Helge- Norway )

    2. i was moved reading that……thank you Athene for making my mascarra run for such excellent reasons xxxxx a brilliant and reassuring response

    3. For all those who slated my last post this article gives a more realistic view of what happens in our university….. nb alexis only dress with her wig for 3weeks and looks like he previous picture and generally theirvjeans are so low that not only is their butt full out and nude but you can see oartoal male genitals….

      1. Isn’t gendertrender a well known trans hate site? Yes, sure. Quote from there. Only realistic if you are a second wave extremist.
        It’s like quoting from a fundamentalist site about gay rights.

      2. I think I see where Ellie gets her paranoi about being raped from. That blog is obsessive. No way are the women I know worried every waking and sleeping moment about being raped, tortured, murdered. What a ridiculous distortion of reality.

        1. Julia Wilmott 15 Feb 2013, 3:32pm

          indeed it is a trans hate site.. it’s run by that well known advocate of genocide Cathy Brennan..

  34. Ben Foster 13 Feb 2013, 3:24pm

    Have you noticed that Paddy has shut up now that the majority of people on here have supported the trans cause and exposed him for the troll he is. Well done to those who stood up to his nastiness at the start. Sorry I was away for a while and didn’t add my support from the beginning.

  35. thewildonez 17 Feb 2013, 1:43pm

    I think the paddy guy is gay not queer.

    1. @Mark Y Silence people who disagree with you? Yeah that’s very democratic of you.
      There is no way that Alexis should be in the ladies room full stop end of story. He is not female and neither is he transsexual he is not even trans anything (whatever trans means it’s a nothing term attempting to cover anything and everything) Alexis is a self confessed androgynous male who has no intention of ever having SRS do your research people before opening your mouth and shoving your foot in it.

      As a female I expect to be able to deal with female body functions with privacy from males. Alexis can use the male facilities let his male colleagues deal with him why should women bear the burden? By the way I have zero issues with who I am or my sexuality before you clowns start making stupid accusations.

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