No, dearie, you are rubbished because your argument is a disproven fallacy which you have offered with no evidence whatsoever – since there is none.
Just another boneheaded tory homophobe trying to play the victim card.
To be a little more accurate Mrs. Sealey has been rubbished because she has made no argument. She claimed same-sex marriage presented a danger to children and families but when asked what those dangers were she couldn’t list them. She has no argument – just empty, meaningless rhetoric.
As a professional therapist and counsellor I have to disagree with you. Children need a mother and a father and natural is always the best. When a baby is born it creates a powerful bond with its parents. This bond is crucial to the mental health of the adult. I know that you are angry that somebody has said that gay parenting isn’t equivalent, but the fact is that it never will be. For the health of our society we owe it to our children to safeguard the family and that is why many people are voting against the legilsation, including me.
The government should be doing all it can to support hard pressed and dedicated parents who sweat blood to raise healthy families. Instead it is wasting time with this silly and harmful legislation.
Are you advocating a change in the divorce laws as well then? And perhaps, as a deterrent, a reversion to the pre-20c definitions of illegitimacy as well?
“As a professional therapist and counsellor”
That’s right, Chrissie… keep saying that to yourself, one day you might believe it but I doubt many of us will!
“The government should be doing all it can to support hard pressed and dedicated parents who sweat blood to raise healthy families”
Don’t parents already get enough support already? They get plenty of benefits as parents!
“…Asked by Mr Deach to elaborate on what these consequences will be, she said: “Frankly I don’t know…” ”
Not good enough. The majority of people are in favour of same sex marriage and use well constructed arguments to support this change, and your response is “BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN BUT I DON’T KNOW WHAT.”
Do you really think that’s good enough?
Dear James, As a professional therapist, counselor (parent and grandparent) I agree with Ms Sealy. I am not a homophobe – in fact I’ve done voluntary work for GLBT organisations in the past. However professionally I have to say that children need the love of a mother and father. The mother child bond is so powerful throughout childhood. Having a mother and father creates balance and gives children the right role models. Deprive a child of its mother and you create a very unhappy child and a miserable adult..The outcome for the adult is depression, low self worth and often a constant and nagging feeling of emptiness and grief.
By all means have same sex marriage, but please don’t set that up as a good alternative environment for raising children in, because it just isn’t equivalent and all the wishing in the world will never make it so.
Sorry to sound negative, It isn’t personal. I just care about children and our society as we go into the future.
Where did this excuse of a piece of poop come from..talking about educated…well then she should know that you don’t DECIDE that you will be gay…you are or you are not…How in the hell did she get this position…token female job I would assume or someone’s sidekick…what a bloody excuse of a woman…use that term very loosely…
No need for name calling. That’s exactly what she’s talking about being rubbished. Just because someone doesn’t agree with my opinions, doesn’t give me the right to denegrate her.
BTW, I’m gay and want more than anything to marry my ‘husband’ of 21 years.
He has every right to denigrate this anti human/civil rights vile, homophobic, bigoted woman. This is not about her perverse personal opinion , but she is a public servant , inevitably to some , who are LGBT. Grow a backbone and stop being such a wuss. You would be waiting a further 21 years ,still waiting to marry your partner , if everyone was as passive and simpering as you , when it comes to demanding our equality.
bigoted old bitch – no doubt her hatred extends to all other groups that don’t conform to her way of life -
She’s worried, but when asked what her reply is “Frankly I don’t know”?!
Mercifully, she’s in no position to have any influence on this matter, so she and her amusingly collapsed-beehive hairdo can be safely ignored.
Why was my comment not printed??? But you allow such stupid dribble to be printed like this F******* chairperson….
Calm down, dear. It WAS printed. You just had to refresh a couple of times.
The anti marriage equality brigade keep painting themselves as the victims. Their rhetoric is Orwellian double speak.
It is WE who are victims of their prejudice. They are the oppressors. We are the oppressed. Not the other way around.
She is either stupid, or evil.
Or possibly a combo of both
Cameron must be thoroughly embarrassed by the frequency of these interventions
Wow, how big’s the chip on her shoulder??
Aside from her nonsense about equal marriage, reading between the lines when she talks about the party leaders I very strongly get the impression she’s been passed over somehow and is really rather bitter about it.
And no, I don’t think she should ever be invited back to Gay Surrey’s IDAHO event.
All these bigots are Tory. Most of them are religious. Spotting the pattern.
I’ll be voting Anything But Tory (ABT) next election. Too many bigots in the party – I hadn’t realised there were so many because they kept banging on about how they’d changed, and look at all the gay people we’ve got as MPs. But it’s meaningless.
She appears to be having some kind of psychiatric episode.
Won’t somebody please think of the children!
The children by and large don;t give a monkeys. I have a female fiancee and an ex-husband, we were together 20 years. We have 3 chldren who live with us ranging from 15 to 20 and 1 of those is expecting later this year. So long as they don’t see any “smootchiness” as they put it, they’re happy and my grandchild will grow with nanny J and nanny K. She implies that children need to be brought up in a hetro family, does she also think that abusive fathers are better than a kind gay step parent? My kids have had both and think my partner’s brilliant. They can’t stand their father and never want to see him again.
Vile bigoted old harridan – she is not fit to hold public office.
She talks about having to be educated about our whole humanity and then comes out with a litany of uneducated drivel which shows she has no idea about humanity, certainly in this area.
Are all those nasty gay people complaining about your backward, ill-educated, homophobic (in any sense of the word), ill–thought out, melodramatic, paranoid rambilngs upsetting you? Then maybe you should consider resigning in favour of someone with a thicker skin, or perhaps educating yourself just a tad and opening your mind just a fraction.
“… as civil partnerships were “specifically designed for gays”.”
And chastity belts were specifically designed for women, Doesn’t make it right though.
Fowl old sow.
“Foul old sow”…. Ooops.. Bl00dy tablet!!!!
” It’s a question of being educated about our whole humanity, the history of humanity”
Indeed it is, and homosexuality has existed throughtout the whole of that history. It has really only been damned by Abrahamic religions. Other cultures have, geographically and historically relaxed about it.
It has also been observed in some 1,500 species, while homophobia has been observed in just one.
Sorry, I interrupted…you were saying about being educated. Do go on.
Utterly divorced from the reality of the world. These traditionalists cherry pick history and paint it as some fantasy utopian past, and this one in particular doesn’t seem to care that Civil Partnerships instantly annul the moment the UK Borders are crossed.
Seriously, how does someone so ignorant of facts get elected into office?
Its a pre-requisite.
Marriage for us has been legal in Belgium for 10 years. God has not sent a disapproving storm, or destroyed anyone or anything. The truth is, Belgium is still a wonderful place, steeped in history.
Would you just look at Canada; there are no consequences!
There are consequences and they’re positive.
Lavinia Sealey should not retain a place on the council with her distorted and unreasoned opinions based purely on prejudice as well as her imagined conspiracies among gay media folk allegedly persecuting her and her unpleasant kind.
This is the real face of the Tory Party.
Remember that next time.
She’s paid not to be the face of ANY party. By indicating party allegiance she has violated the office of Chair.
Still as nasty, if not more so, as ever.
Another bloody Tory harridan. The fact that she admits that CPs were ‘designed’ for gays proves that they’re unequal because straights aren’t allowed them. How convenient CPs have become for the opposition most of whom would abolish those if they could. That she says she doesn’t know about the consequences of married gay couples raising children says it all. She’s debunked her own argument, stupid bint.
She even lies when she says its not about religion. Of course it is, you stupid lying twat.
I’d say she’s breached the code of conduct of the Chair.
Firstly she’s inferred that we’re a danger to children, but Surry council foster and adopt to same-sex couples, in line with the law, so she is directly contradicting UK law and Surrey council policy.
Applicants can be single, married, in a civil partnership or be an unmarried couple (same or opposite sex)”
And her office is supposed to be
“The Chairman’s role is a-political, carrying out duties representing the Council as a whole. “
and her comments will have brought the Council in to disrepute – unless they agree with her.
I’ve emailed her office to ask what the codes of conduct are.
She doesn’t know the evidential basis of her own submission yet trumpets it loudly and nastily. The reason you’re “dissed” is that you don’t deserve to be taken seriously and, at the last count, there were rather more heterosexuals than there were if us lot in the media. I suspect that she foamed at the mouth as she spoke.
Interesting collection of arguments:
1. Never, in the whole “history of humanity”, have men or women had sex with someone of the same gender. Definitely not.
2. Marriage equality will encourage gay people in loveless marriages with someone of the opposite sex to get a divorce. Which would be bad.
3. I know marriage equality has nothing to do with gay people’s access to adoption and artificial insemination, but I didn’t agree with that either, so I thought I’d bring it up, even though it’s irrelevant.
4. There will be bad consequences. No, I have no idea what exactly. But they will be BAAAAD!!!!
5. Who are these blasted Cameroons? Are they old enough to drive? Get off my lawn!
6. When I say something in the media, people criticise me for making no sense, which is very rude. IT’S THE GAYS, I TELL YOU! They’re the ones running a ruthless campaign of responding with reasoned arguments.
7. I’m not a bigot. In fact, some of my best friends…
LOL! so true, i can imagine she’s daily mails champion, i wonder will they mention how she can’t tell of the consequences she speaks of.
Lavinia Sealy would be cheered to know that here in Spain, for many years, Franco also had something “specifically designed for gays”, a prison in Badajoz – only closed in the 1980s. Is this woman, with her crazily mixed up arguments, lacking in any kind of intellectual rigour, a throwback or the genuine ‘nasty party’ face of Conservatism?
She’s “A former history and politics teacher” !! :D
Surprised she doesn’t know about the history of oppression of a whole group of people. She sees what she wants to see.
What?? Thank God I wasn’t in her history class, she seems to have a minimal grasp of it.
I am a 67 year-old Gay man who was once in a hetero marriage that produced three son. My husband is a 60 year-old man who has been married twice before to women and has four daughters. We are married legally in South Africa (see the South African Constitution).
We have a considerable amount of experience in parenting, and all our children are extremely normal …. My boys are all married and I have grandchildren. The only requirements for parenting are Love, Patience, Commitment, Sympathy, Consistency, Support and a Secure Home Life.
Just because a man or a woman is gay does not mean that those qualities are lacking.
This moronic woman, Sealy, is playing the political card very strongly. Frighten people enough and they might also vote on the party ticket rather than doing what is right. She is nothing more nor less than a grown-up playground bully, the kind of person that good parents teach their children to avoid…..no conscience and only out for what she can get!
In a relevant story, I just learned that the French right wing have demanded that polygamy and incest be added to the equal marriage bill to foment a ‘no’ vote. They believe the French senate where socialists aren’t in control will be able to scuttle passage of legislation.
Apparently they added 5,000 amendments to kill the bill, but I read that none of them are likely to be debated seriously. Interesting tactic.
The saddest thing about the debate on same sex marriage, is it has shown that despite a lot of positive progress there are still a worrying amount of purely ill informed people out there.
Oh! Lavinia. You’ve got yourself into a terrible state, haven’t you, love. Whey don’t you go and take a long lie down in a darkened room? You can have a good chew on the pillow and we’ll come and get you when it’s all over.
Might be a good idea to resign also, before there’s an investigation in to your comments, as Council spokesperson, where you are likely to be asked to step down. Go before they boot you!
““Whether there are huge dangers… for children….you could marry and decide you’re gay after all and change, and people do that [already] but is [equal marriage] encouraging it?”
What a raving old loony rant! There’s not a drop of sense in the whole thing! How could EM encourage LGBT people to leave their opposite sex spouse? If they make that big decision, they could just have a CP now anyway!
And as she can’t name a single danger to children, I think it’s fair to assume that’s because there aren’t any!!
The only Pandora’s Box that’s been opened here is the one showing how much homophobia there still is in Britain today. This woman needs educating – although her mind seems pretty shut sadly.
Now I’m off to write a mad rant about why women shouldn’t be Council Chairs. I’ll be sure to include bizarre allusions of dangers to families, paranoid guff about women in the media rubbishing anti-women views…ooh, and tsunamis! The poor dear forgot the tsunamis!!! :D
Interesting that the part of Indonesia most affected by the Boxing Day Tsunami of 2004 was Aceh Provence which is the only part of the country where homosexuality is criminalised (at least for Muslims). Is God trying to say something?
In what way is same-sex marriage dangerous to children? Can Lavina please explain before making any more ‘Sealy’ remarks?
All the Tory homophobes are beginning to get their silly knickers in a twist now that gay marriage is about to be legalised. She isn’t religious so she doesn’t have that as a lame excuse either. Just another stupid politician who wants to protect families and children from what? Does she even know? Gay children need protection in our schools from bullies and from teachers who make them feel like outsiders or worse.
“you could marry and decide you’re gay after all and change”
Ignorance is a choice, sexuality is not
Homosexuals are so bitter.
They are not able to change their behaviour so they take it out on everyone who has an opinion against their chosen behaviour.
Homosexuals will suffer more if Gay marriage happens, people will be even more against you.
I suggest you read the following before forming such an ill informed opinion.
What is so bitter about wanting full equality?
I can’t change my behaviour as that would then change who I am which would then mean living a lie, which, I for one, am not going to do.
And how exactly, will the LGBT community suffer when same sex marriage becomes law?
Not that I am expecting an answer from you, you’re clearly here to stir things up then off you go.
Is that a threat?
Yeah, like religious bigoted nutters don’t choose their belief system. Nobody is born religious, you retarded closet case.
Not half as bitter as gay people who try to deny their feelings, Matthew… That NARTH therapy isn’t making you very happy. It’s not necessary. Be who you really are. There’s nothing wrong with being gay.
Love it: ‘not able to change’ and ‘chosen behaviour’ in the same sentence; and ‘homosexuals’ taking part in ‘gay marriage’.
Matthew, my precious, try thinking for a change. You might find it refreshing.
We already know about your hatred and paranoia, Matthew. Please take it somewhere else.
PN – unrelated to this damn woman and her idiot beliefs, but
GET RID OF THOSE DAMN VIDEO ADVERTS THAT SUDDENLY START TALKING TO ME ABOUT CONSTIPATION! They seem to be on every damn page and are really making me think twice about visiting this site.
PN: Replace them for adverts about the health benefits of figgs.
That is a lot more subtle :D
I thought …
“GOD HATES FIGS”
Isn’t that what the Westboro Baptist Church” goes on about?
I sincerely hope that other members of the council have read this article and now act swiftly to remove her from her position
She talks as though some important truth is being concealed by unwarranted attacks upon her. Actually what she despises is loss of power and privilege: that now open homophobia expressed without fear of reprisal which was so previously ingrained in our society is no longer publicly acceptable. That’s what she’s really talking about. And then after all that ranting about her words being controlled by some silent dictatorship she goes on to add the obligatory “I’m in favour of equal treatment etc etc” because she pretty much feels she has to (clearly she doesn’t mean it). Oh the irony.
This religious council loves church groups and hate gays!
In the last 3 months this council spent (just on religious churches), over £65,000 and then when you look at individual churches like ‘St Peter’s’ for example they received over £20,000 just for them! But on the over hand the LGBT community received nothing at all!
See here for yourselves : http://bit.ly/VrD0aw
Fascinating. I see they have rented rooms for the HR department to have meetings in churches several times at vast expense – £3,330 to hire a meeting room !! No mention of them giving any money to LGBT support groups – even though she visited Gay Surrey for IDAHO. Ironic that someone who is quite homophobic should have been invited and also attended.
“It’s a question of natural beings” did I suddenly turn into a unnatural being….everything I do comes naturally to me…breathing, eating, walking, thinking and if I had one loving my same sex partner – naturally!
I’m naturally thinking that what this twin set and pearls nutter is not doing is …..yes you’ve got it’s thinking naturally!! What an unnatural freak she is.
“It is a question of our natural beings!” and she brings out the natural beings other brickbats…. saving the children, the persecution without the ability to speak their natural bigoted views without by hounded by all the gays in the media and even getting sneered at by the BBC.
Oh dear how awful it must be for her having the unnatural beings voicing their unnatural opinions – this natural being and the rest of her natural beings is what is wrong with this country….she is a natural bigoted freak.
The only thing I would dearly love to know about this silly woman’s ideas is her opinion of divorce, given the number of non-gay people today who have more than one partner and/or children by several different partners.
Yes, and how would she feel about Tory adulterers Nadine Dorries, Bob Blackman and serial adutlerer Sir Roger Gale? Not a word from her on that.
Of course not! What would you expect? Objectivity?
This type of tiresome old Tory bitch (& all her bastard male equals) is why I fled sodding Epsom in the heart of Surrey asap at 18. So many back handers & vile views go on in Tory run Surrey.
I have a horrible feeling that this is a sobering indication of the calibre of too many people in local government in this country. Yikes.
Careful Sealy, you’re starting to sound like a Republican.
“I’m so picked on i say hateful bigotted things and the media shows me as a hateful bigot. Pity poor (well not actually poor, quite well off) me. The world is changing and I don’t like it, therefore, it’s wrong evil and unatural.”
All the media needs to do to rubbish her is print what she actually says.
Another Bigot who doesn’t have a clue about humanity.
She talks about a question of being educated and the history of humanity but yet speaks as if some are more worth of being educated and others forgotten…It’s ridiculous! It’s just wrong!
Yet another case of blame others for their own actions. After all it is people like her that are the true dangers to children as we all know too well!
“There are lots of gays in the media that if anybody speaks out, you’re rubbished. [...] They ought to be more careful”
…well that’s not at all threatening is it…
I am the fella who interviewed Cllr Sealy.
The article here does not direct you to the podcast itself so just in case you cant find it – http://surreyheath-residents.co.uk/2013/01/29/surrey-heath-coalition-for-marriage-event-podcast/
I think it is important that you hear all her comments rather than just the excerpts shown here.
How can someone be a leader at county level and make such an incoherent rant, which makes no sense at all? Most of what was said was not even in the form of a sentence, never mind reasoned. I encourage her to speak her mind as much as possible. Why she imagines she is being silenced I cannot understand. The more she speaks the more she sinks her own cause. Please, madam, keep on going and making an imbecile of yourself!
Ah, the ignorance of blind prejudice. Spectaculary stupid and uninformed comments by the ‘Leader’ of the county where my partner and I pay our domestic rates. The wretched woman is entitled to her personal opinions but not on our money! Suggest we all call for her resignation – with no vast pay-off.
What an ugly old hag you are ugly on the outside and ugly on the inside…
Everyone should send a written complain to Surrey County Councils Leader and CEO and demand action and a apology from this woman. Come on it only takes a minutes and holds them to account. email@example.com; firstname.lastname@example.org; David.McNulty@surreycc.gov.uk
This is precisely the kind of silencing and bullying she is speaking about.
Extraordinary you can’t see that !
Talk about blind!
Yet another homophobic old Tory who fails completely to understand the concept of ‘equality’. How would she like it if a law existed to prevent smug, middle-class, middle-aged, bleached-haired old bigots from marrying?
I’m in agreement with Ms Sealy. As a professional therapist, counselor (parent and grandparent) I believe that the right environment for bringing up children is with a natural mother and father. The bond that is formed between the new born and its mother is powerful and is crucial throughout childhood. The need for a natural mum and dad is hard wired into humanity and if you mess with this fundamental aspect you will create an even bigger mess, unhappy children and even more messed up adults. BTW I am not a homophobe. I counsel gay people regularly and have volunteered for Freshwinds and other GLBT organisations in the past. However I’m afraid you are incorrect and I suggest that you spend some time studying people sciences (psychology, medicine, midwifery, child psychology) so that you realise the full implications of what you are advocating.
From what you say it appears you believe it impossible, or at least unlikely, that anyone who’s adopted could be well-balanced: I don’t agree.
And there’s plenty of evidence in history and from societies that aren’t limited to the Western-nuclear-family pattern to suggest that the need for a “natural” mother and father is not as hard-wired as you seem to imagine.
And people are shocked when I say that I’ve encountered homophobia from counsellors and psychotherapists. One, a registrar I saw through the NHS, even told me that it was my fault for being raped when seriously ill, due to my being bisexual. Then there was the supposedly free counselling service, run by a church but allegedly not religious in any way, which suddenly decided to charge me a lot of money when I came out to them after a few counselling sessions.
Meanwhile, I dearly wish someone had taken me away from my abusive mother in childhood, preferably before she landed me in hospital. The best decision I ever made in my life was to cut ties with my family. You’re aware that most child abuse occurs in the home, right?
Stop telling us that you’re a professional counsellor. You do it in every comment. No one’s impressed. Looking at the statistics, which show that families with LGBT parents do slightly better on average, might earn you our respect.
A very good reply, Patricia.
“As a professional therapist, counselor (sic)”
Do you think, Chrissie is trying to tell us something?
She’s absolutely right.
You are rubbished now if you dare to speak about gay marriage,
particularly if you are heterosexual.
It is a Pandora’s box.
It will lead us into masses of court cases.
We should be content with civil partnerships.
But no-one is listening.
Gay marriage will lead to a RISE in homophobia, not a reduction.
That’s right, James… just let us be happy with what we have…!
I’m sure you must enjoy picking up the crumbs from the floor…!
But most of us would like to sit at the table…!
It’s funny how all these people railing against queer parenting don’t actually seem to understand how same-sex couples might end up with children. I don’t know what proportion involves adoption, but let’s just say that out of all the (very loving and stable) LGBT parents I know, none of them adopted. On the other hand, I know of mixed-sex couples who’ve adopted, and the person who’s gone through the most complex assisted reproduction (involving a separate egg donor and surrogate) is my cousin, who is in a mixed-sex marriage.
Do you think that if we explained that gay and bi women are just as capable of pregnancy as anyone else, that it’s not even particularly difficult to set up, and that sometimes people in same-sex relationships end up with kids from a previous relationship, or from before transitioning, she might topple over into speechlessness and give us all a break?