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Comment: A call for tolerance between London’s Muslim and LGBT communities

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  1. This headline is wrong:
    ‘A call for tolerance between London’s Muslim and LGBT communities’
    The LGBT community has always been ‘tolerant’ of decent people’
    It should read:
    ‘A call for tolerance by London’s extremist Muslims towards LGBT people’

    1. And I doubt that will ever happen.

      1. Of course it will, time is the only factor into these groups dissappearence. Younger generations and new muslim immigrants tend to integrate quite well with british society and culture. It’s the ones who came over a few decades ago when public support was far lower than it currently is that had to form insular communities and… ‘stewed’ for lack of a better phrase that have ended up bat sh*t insane.

        1. Are I suggest you watch the video that is the voice of a born and bred British muslim. .

        2. That There Other David 24 Jan 2013, 5:30pm

          Sadly the current generation of young Muslims are more radical than their parents. There’s a lot of angry young people out there, and plenty of extremist preachers casting out lines with which to fish them in.

          And even young Muslims are very intolerant towards us. All goes to show what damage self-hypnosis six times a day can do.

        3. You are delusional. The Gallup survey of British muslims from 2009, showed that they are extremely homophobic (99.5% of them are intolerant of homosexuality). When the survey was released, The Pink Paper rubbished it as “islamophobic” (It was conducted by 3 muslims, one of whom wears a hijab). http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

          This other survey featured on the BBC shows that younger muslims in Britain are 2x or 3x more intolerant than their grandparents. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6309983.stm

          Hizb ut Tahrir, the islamic Nazi party, has an annual conference in Tower Hamlets every year. No muslims ever protest against it. The police stop EDL protesting against it.

        4. These were warm words with no action. It is the younger muslims that are the problem and their parents for causing it.

          They are always the victim. The first to protest if they feel wronged by outsiders and the last to criticise their own.

          I don’t remember a mass muslim march to cheer Tony Blair when we went in to Kosovo to defend muslims from catholic aggressors. They were quick enough to complain about Iraq though.

          Let us see some action by the muslim communities in controlling their dangerous extremist teenagers.

          Has this guy gone around the mosques telling them this?

    2. While I like to think that LGBT people are generally open-minded and sensitive to prejudice in all of its forms, having a non-normative gender or sexuality doesn’t make you immune to bigotry. We already have people in this thread criticising Muslims as a group, and an earlier article on the story had plenty of “they should send them home” comments.

      1. There are only 5 comments before yours on this thread, none of which ‘criticise Muslims’ as a group.

        the 1st refers to ‘extremists’, the 2nd is a response to it – agains discusing extremists, the third states that they problem is with older muslims born elswhere and that young muslims are well integrated (ignoring the fact that the “muslim Patrol” were young and presumably born in the UK) as the 4th comment points out. The 5th states that younger muslims are more likely to be radical than their parents, explicitly contradicting your claim that muslims are being portrayed here as a a group.

        You appear to be less than honest.

    3. barriejohn 24 Jan 2013, 4:34pm

      It’s never their fault!

    4. I thought the same thing. Why doesn’t he explicitly tell these hate groups to get off the street?

      1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 1:50am

        He has and is doing so. Note that two people have been arrested as a result.

    5. ‘…The LGBT community has always been ‘tolerant’…’

      Really? I suggest you read the comments under original article

      http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/01/22/video-east-london-man-suffers-anti-gay-abuse-from-muslim-patrol-gang/comments/

      1. OK. Point taken.
        Generally speaking there is massively less aggression towards Muslims by LGBT people than there is by Muslim extremists (there is a huge difference) towards LGBT people. The ignorant comments, which you rightly point out, are in response to Muslim extremist aggression.

        1. Yes but Muslim extremist are tiny minority of Uk’s Muslim population

          http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/06/27/poll-says-muslims-are-proud-of-britains-gay-rights/

          1. The point is that they won’t be a minority if this symptom is allowed to fester into full blow social terrorism as more and more disenfranchised Moslem youth join their ranks.

          2. The poll Kane refers to is rubbish. It has a totally ambiguous question, and a sample size of 30. The Gallup poll (conducted by 3 muslims) showed that 99.5% of British muslims were homophobic. That poll had a sample size of 500.

        2. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 2:34am

          Note, this is not true of the many gay members of the EDL who most certainly do threaten and execute violence against Muslims in England (and appear to be out in force on this comments page)

    6. Spanner1960 25 Jan 2013, 9:20am

      No. It should be
      “Call for moderate Muslims to control their own people.”

      This has nothing to do with LGBT people, or anybody else for that matter.

    7. We should not tolerate them and their religion. Religion is a set of beliefs about the natural world and about morality, not a state of being. If we think those beliefs are wrong, then we think they are wrong and we should be free to say so. If we think they are violent and threatening, then we think they are violent and threatening and we have a duty to oppose them. No tolerance for religious bigots.

  2. I’m Sorry? Tolerance between a group who harm no one and a group full of backward Misogynist men who Bully their way around, claiming religious freedom for their hatred and vile beliefs -And now threatening law abiding citizens on the streets – I think not!

    1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 1:57am

      It depresses me frankly that such naked islamophobia would get so many thumbs up on a gay website. While the guys in the video and a few others (as well as soon idiotic populist clerics) are indeed homophobic and deserve condemnation for it that is not actually true of most Muslims in the UK: http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/06/27/poll-says-muslims-are-proud-of-britains-gay-rights/

      We do not win the fight against bigotry and intolerance by being bigoted in return. Particularly when in the case of Wais Islam above, where he is clearly reaching out a hand of brotherhood to gay people and not attacking us.

      I know him personally and he is a thoroughly decent man who genuinely meant well in making this statement.

      1. Dave North 25 Jan 2013, 9:22am

        WE ARE NOT BEING BIGOTED. ONLY DEFENSIVE.

        It is not us attacking anyone. GET IT.

        1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 12:31pm

          Anti-Muslim intimidation and violence has been well documented since 911 and anyone with an acquaintance with the English Defence League (which unfortunately I have had) will know that there are gay people out there threatening violence to Muslims in very potent terms.

          All WAIS Islam is pleading for is an open dialogue and friendship between minorities and not all of this high octane prejudice.

      2. Spanner1960 25 Jan 2013, 9:26am

        I am sure Wais Islam is a decent person.
        However, he is targeting his arguments at the wrong people.

        Moderate Muslims NEVER stand up against the extremists in their own ranks for fear of being branded anti-Muslim themselves.

        They need to weed out the nutters in their own ranks instead of trying to focus on the people these dangerous and sociopathic morons are picking on.

        1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 10:08am

          Actually that just isn’t true spanner. The press doesn’t report it much but there are frequent attempts by moderate Moslems to speak out against and act against extremism. Much work has been done to remove hate speakers from mosques across London and evict extremists from mosque premises.

          1. what utter Bollox you preach -

      3. That poll has been rubbished, even by left-wing islamophiles. The question was ambiguous to the point of meaningless (are they proud that Britain treats gay people badly?), the sample size was laughable (about 30 people). Many people dismiss the Gallup poll that 99.5% of British muslims were homophobic, yet Gallup’s sample size was 500).

      4. We will NOT be Bullied and Terrorized any more – take your ‘common sense’ and f~k off – No other immigrant group has been so anti UK by not condemning these bigoted actions –

        If they want to live in an Islamic State they can all F~k off too – We Don’t them here.

        Get it? Got it? Good!

  3. Superstition is nonsense 24 Jan 2013, 3:31pm

    “As Christianity and Islam are arguably the only two religions in the world that share the same Amen after the Lord’s prayer”

    So which is the one true religion? They can’t both be right? ;)

    1. Robert (Kettering) 24 Jan 2013, 7:44pm

      He’s quite incorrect about the “Amen” after prayers. Thik he’ll find Jews also use the Amen and Judaism was around long before either Christianity or Mohammedism.

      It should also be noted that the area was largely Jewish from the 19th century to about mid 20th century and was always peaceful then. It’s only the Mohammedans who have caused all this trouble not the LGBT community and other faith groups.

      1. Exactly so Robert.

        I have fond memories of visiting my Yiddish grandmother in Bethnal Green as a tot in the early 1980s, whose parents settled in Bethnal Green after fleeing Poland in the 1930s.

        Always an amazing spread of smoked salmon bagels and lockshen pudding awaited all those who entered her home, Jew and Gentile alike.

        She would be rapidly rotating in her grave at the third world shanty towns that areas like Bethnal Town which are dependent on state benefits have degenerated into, aided, abetted and enabled of course by successive governments via their ham-fisted and wilful PC idiocy.

        1. Slightly off topic I know but an honorary mention also to my late nana’s wonderful gefilte fish.

          How could I have forgotten her gifilte fish?!

          The best in Hackney at the time, by all accounts.

    2. Andrew Conway 25 Jan 2013, 4:59pm

      I note that the Jewish religion has been omitted from this list. Unsurprising – Wais Islam’s anti-semitism has been well documented.

      http://trialbyjeory.wordpress.com/2010/09/26/anti-semites-and-respectlutfur-backers/

  4. Chris Hoult 24 Jan 2013, 3:32pm

    LAs someone ving in the East End I founfd this video was disturbing. It was obvious these losers were not new immigrants but very much East End born. I despair that our education system has so visibly failed these kids. How can they have failed to notice that the East End is totally multicultural. They do a grave disservice to their religion.

    1. Chris Hoult 24 Jan 2013, 3:35pm

      I really hate using mobile to post! Where did the first bit come from ;-)

    2. “the east end is totally multicultural” No doubt you think that a school that is 99% muslim is multi-cultural. http://www.primarylanguages.org.uk/teaching__learning/community_languages/key_stage_2_curriculum_models/bengali_case_study.aspx When you have schools in London where 95% of the pupils are genetically from one area of Bangladesh, it isn’t multicultural.

      Mecca and Medina were multicultural before Mohammed (a mass murderer) forced everyone to become muslim. Medina was a jewish city when they took him in, and now no jew is allowed into Medina. Carry on claiming that black is white.

      1. This has nothing to do with any education or any system failing them. This is about responsibility, not education. They are adults, and this comes out of their choice, not education. They chose to be mean, selfish pigs, and sought to harm another person. They failed themselves.

  5. Is it me or did he spend an enormous portion of the article catering to race / religious differences rather than the actual homophobic assault as performed in the video? Are we to deduce there’s little hope even an obviously moderate and sensible Muslim could defend negative action against gay people?

    1. He barely mentioned homophobia. It was a brief introduction while he spoke about race and religion throughout. He isn’t addressing homophobic abuse, he’s using homophobic abuse as a stepping stone to talk about a different issue.

      It’s a very worthy, vital, important and laudable issue, certainly, one that needs talking about. But he’s still effectively said “stop talking about homophobia, talk about this instead.”

      1. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with that. The problem is, what started this firestorm off is the reported incident of homophobic abuse against this poor young chap innocently walking home and completely minding his own business. And yes, there’s been reports of alcohol being removed from revellers, women abused for wearing clothing not considered conservative enough etc. etc. but this is homophobic incident is the first properly documented example of these ‘Muslim patrols’ (and *I* take issue with ‘vigilante patrols’ as in my mind a ‘vigilante’ is an oft maligned hero doing good under the radar. Be brave and call a spade a spade, man!) acting out.

        At best, his writing is lazy to not issue support LGBT minorities as he would other religious groups/minorities – at worst, it’s a thinly veiled attempt at some PR for the Muslim community whilst simultaneously not *really* condoning their actions. Maybe it’s the cynic in me, but this fluff piece will fall on deaf ears on both sides.

      2. Mumbo Jumbo 24 Jan 2013, 7:34pm

        In this blog in the Independent, another apologist manages to write an entire article without mentioning the homophobic incident at all:

        http://goo.gl/Bu8cP

        The silence shouts.

        1. It’s hard to believe that these articles are supposed to be condemning homophobia when they don’t mention it. Frankly it sounds far more like “all you homos shut up and take it”

    2. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 1:16am

      There were several videos and the ones that got the widest coverage were a woman and two others of men with alcohol. Wais was responding to all of these and he sent a statement to several publications. He is a friend of mine and i can vouch that he is a good man who was genuinely horrified by the way these idiots behaved and just wanted to make clear that Muslims in the east end do not agree with this sort of behaviour.

      1. If he’s responding to those why write an article for PinkNews?

        1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 9:58am

          He didn’t write an article for pink news. He wrote a statement that was sent to several newspapers. It was actually my suggestion that it be sent to pink news and I sent it to the editorial team. I suppose I am not surprised that the comments then got swamped by the EDL tendency but it really is staggering the bigotry being posted by people who probably did not even read what he posted and just reacted instead to his name and face colour.

      2. Spanner1960 25 Jan 2013, 9:31am

        *Some* Muslims in the east end do not agree with this sort of behaviour.

        I can assure you there are also plenty that do.
        This is how Islam works. Sooner or later they will start resorting to violence. This is how they work. View any conflict in the world today, and that is precisely what is happening.

        1. *Some* Muslims in the east end do not agree with this sort of behaviour.

          Not enough, quite frankly, and if those who do profess to abhor their brethren’s barbarism and savagery then they have a duty to root them out and publicly shame and denounce them.

          Nothing less will suffice, and lest this occurs then the entire Whitechapel/Bethnal Green Moslem community is tarred with the same brush and shamed by their inaction, and the same goes for their peadophile tendency in Rochdale, Rotherham et al.

          1. As the great Martin Luther King once declared:-

            “Great evil can only flourish when good men look the other way and do nothing…”

      3. Then why didn’t he?

        Because he made very little attempt TO condemn this behaviour. especially the homophobia, that didn’t seem to have bothered him much at all

  6. So the LGBT community are supposed to be tolerant of the intolerance of certain sections of the Muslim community who will in turn tolerate the tolerance that exists for their intolerance. An intolerable situation, surely?

    1. Basically yeah…. if we stop being mincing faggots, they’ll stop trying to kill us.

      Outrageous.

  7. blah, blah, blah. Empty words. He might strongly condemn it, but 90% of the other muslims in east London wouldn’t. christianity and judaism is generally intolerant of us, but islam is 100 times worse. The most backward, bigoted, homophobic, misogynistic belief system to have any power in the world.

    1. No. Listen to me. None of these religions hate you. There are those who use it to ‘justify’ their intolerance and crap but they are not reflective of all. I’m Christian and I 100% want you to be happy, loved, to love, and be accepted and appreciated like anyone else. I know and I understand how you feel. I would also hate to be told that God thinks less of me or dislikes how I am and that counts even more so being female. We’ve had a long and shocking history of hate against us too. That’s not to say your feelings are lesser because they really aren’t but I just want you to know that it’s cool if you don’t believe or subscribe to it – I would feel the same as well – but If God exists then God made you and God loves you. Not pities you, not looks down or ‘expects’ different of you; God loves you. I know you think I’m an idiot but I want you to know that there are many of us who think the same. You are not hated. I know it’s very difficult and painful but I just want you to know that.

      1. Thank you for posting, lemon. :)

  8. Christopher in Canada 24 Jan 2013, 3:54pm

    Interesting how gays don’t proselytize, but the religious do.

  9. Caricaturing all muslims as thugs and extremists is as helpful as Julie Burchill’s diatribe against trans people.

    The councillor is right. Now is the time to build bridges not to burn them. We should welcome the statements from Muslim leaders denouncing these thugs.

    1. When they denounce them, we will. This didnt’ do that. It made it look like a school yard squabble ‘six of one, half a dozen of the others’, come on boys, make friends and be nice.

      1. ” I strongly condemn… they do not represent us in any form or with any approval… abusive youngsters who have no understanding of Islam are simply unrepresentative of the Muslim community” are his words.

        If you expect him to join an EDL march through Tower Hamlets, he’s not going to, and neither am I. As someone who has fought for gay equality for thirty years and has a same sex Muslim partner, I find some of the comments here as reprehensible as anything in the video.

        1. “I find some of the comments here as reprehensible as anything in the video.”

          Tough. I think his words are mealy mouthed and insincere. He is trying to write off as isolated acts of a few ‘youngsters’ as unrepresentative of the population. But somebody else on this thread has already mentioned a survey that found the majority of muslims to be intolerant of gays.

          For that matter, I don’t think I even like the word ‘tolerant’. I don’t want to be ‘tolerated’ like a wet summer or dry rot in the garage. I exepct to be respected for who and what I am – the way Muslims expect to be respected by the rest of the country.

          1. Yes, really.

    2. barriejohn 24 Jan 2013, 4:50pm

      You mean like the leaders of the East London Mosque? Liars and hypocrites – but then we need to be sympathetic towards them, as religion causes putrefaction of the brain cells!

      http://hurryupharry.org/2013/01/22/more-on-the-east-london-mosque-and-homophobia/

      1. Suddenly Last Bummer 24 Jan 2013, 8:32pm

        To paraphrase Baby Jane for a minute, but they are thugs Skep, they are thugs and extremists.

      2. Thanks for posting that. Horrifying. People should know what is really going on.

    3. That’s as pathetic an argument as bigoted celebrities repenting ‘After’ they have spewed a torrent of homophobic hatred –

      Muslim leaders need to stop this at grass roots – in the homes of these hate mongers and in their temples of superstition!

  10. Jock S. Trap 24 Jan 2013, 4:13pm

    I agree with this article in principle, though I do feel the headline is a tad unfair since the LGBT community seem to have to tolerate even the most bigoted of people.

    Regardless of if the victim was Gay or not the fact he was singled out based on how he dressed means a lot of people will suffer such homophobia regardless of the fact of their sexual orientation. Though it’s beyond school yard bullying.

    I do find it offensive that when we stand up to such discrimination we’re included in the who should be tolerant to whom. The fact remains that a woman did stand up to them reminding them we lived in Great Britain only to be slapped down verbally for doing so.

    If those people hate Great Britain so much that they feel the need to create a Muslim only place This is not the country to do it in.

    1. Jock S. Trap 24 Jan 2013, 4:17pm

      Being that I was hounded out of my home in Tower Hamlets by hate from this religion, it suggests things are getting worse and that’s not the LGBT community at fault here.

      People clearly need to be taught that British valves INCLUDE the LGBT community and we’re sick of being treated like outcasts because a few cannot abide by British law.

      It’s is not the LGBT community breaking the law, It’s not the LGBT community showing a complete lack of respect and decency, showing the hatred… So why, oh why are we called in about tolerance!

      Think I’ve just talked my way out of supporting this article, we’re not at fault and in no way should we be made to feel like we are.

      1. No doubt your hounders achieved their objectives and a newly arrived Pakistani family replete with seven children dully took your place.

        1. Jock S. Trap 26 Jan 2013, 10:07am

          Who can say but I certainly have a better life now I’ve moved.

          No bullying, no violence and not a broken window in site!

          4 years of that is more than enough for anyone!

          1. That’s great you are in such a good place now, Jock, but we have a right to be happy and in peace WHEREVER we choose to lay our hats.

            That is a basic human right.

            Oops, silly me, human rights are only reserved for THEM, because after they have intimidated and bullied us and raped and abused little white girls, at the point of being thrown out of our country they claim their right to a family life on benefits paid for US!!

            You couldn’t make it up, really you couldn’t.

          2. Common sense 27 Jan 2013, 7:06am

            You just did

          3. Which just goes to prove that CS inhabits a totally different – or even a parallel – universe to us, either that or there is enough evidence to suggest he is schizophrenic and in dire needs of his meds.

  11. I agree with so much of what Wais Islam said here – we should come together in tolerance and mutual unity.

    But several things he said also sound highly suspicious and homophobic. Like urging people not to give this attention? That sounds a lot like Mr. Islam is demanding we shut up about a hate crime against gay people. His repeated use of the word “anecdotal” sounds a lot like he is doubting the veracity of these victimisations – which is both victim blaming and doubting the very obvious evidence of the video

    Nor, for that matter, does he mention anything in his post about dealing with homophobia. Lots about different religions, cultures and ethnicities coming together but no mention of sexuality. Coming together and pretending homophobia isn’t going to help us

    Come together in unity and mutual strength in our diversity, yes. But we don’t do that by trying to cover up or distract from hate crimes against gay people and

    1. Tower Hamlets libraries stock books on sharia law. Those books say that homosexuals are to be executed. Do you think that Tower Hamlets library would stock books saying that muslims should be executed?

      1. “Those books say that homosexuals are to be executed” … So does the Bible, Torah and all British statutes from 1533 till 1957.

        If you think the library books incite hatred, report it to the police.

        1. Please tell me us when was the last person in Britain executed for homosexuality. They were implementing sharia law to kill gay people in Iran just last year. Groups like Hizb ut Tahrir in Britain have been campaigning for the execution of gay people throughout the last 25 years. http://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/religion/protest-against-hizb-ut-tahrir-conference-east-london

          Hizb ut Tahrir now holds their conference in Tower Hamlets every year. Tatchell was part of a feeble 6 person demonstration against it one year (no-one noticed their 10 minute demonstration). That same year 100s of EDL were stopped by the police from demonstrating against those murderous islamic fascists.

    2. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 2:02am

      I don’t think he was trying to shut down debate. Just that extremists like this live and breathe in the air of publicity. The more we write and broadcast about the the stronger they get.

      1. It’s not “shut down debate.” There is nothing to debate here. Homophobic abuse is wrong. That is not debatable. This is an attempt to silence victims. Gay people protest homophobia and he, a straight man, comes in using words like “anecdote” about a video and telling us not to give it attention. Then has a long speech about everything BUT gay people and homophobia. He came here to tell us to shut up.

        Homophobes are protected by a cloud of silence and acceptability. Of people not caring or speaking up, of people burying the extreme rate of abuse we face

        You want us to shut up to protect the reputation of people who may be associated with the extremists, even while it costs gay people being accosted, abused assaulted and even attacked.

  12. I think you’ll find most gay people are unbelievably tolerant. We’ve had to be – especially of religious persecution. If kids weren’t so brainwashed by religion to believe being gay is somehow ‘wrong’, I think we’d all get along just fine.

    1. Agreed 100%

    2. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 3:58am

      Note, this is not true of the many gay members of the EDL who most certainly do threaten and execute violence against Muslims in England (and appear to be out in force on this comments page)

      1. Clutching at straws rather, Common Purpose, sorry, Sense?

        But then, what else to expect from a PC zealot:- people like him are brainwashed with PC rhetoric and ideology that has its roots in Marxism. and have long tried to steer and corrupt common sense debate on PN while instilling their destructive values on the rest of us.

        Look at how PC has turned HIV prevention in this country upside down as another example of their duplicity:- they turn the truth on its head and inside out and deny truth wherever it tries to shine its light of love and wisdom.

        PC zealots are the real enemy in our midst as they similarly make the ground fertile for Moslem thugs to turn their hatred against us with impunity.

        I suggest we drive the PC zealots off these boards by continuing to voice our truth and laughing in the face of their bullying, intimidation, smearing and truth denialist tactics.

        1. Well said, good post i completely agree.

          1. Thanks Rapture, appreciated!

            The problem with these PC zealots is they’ve made near full-time jobs of (pa)trolling these boards and have long engineered a PC consensus on a myriad of subjects and topics that many have fallen hook, line and sinker for.

            It was bound to trip them up eventually, and this Moslem thuggery incident is the elephant in the room manifest in full view because it is one heart-bleeding, hand-wringingly victimised minority – in the eyes of the PC mafia – terrorizing another.

            Suddenly we see the madness, insanity and treachery of PC for what it is because for once WE are the direct victims of it and are now reaping its destructive consequences!

            A shame we didn’t wake up to the perniciousness of PC in other areas of our lives:- ie. how PC has succeeded in turning HIV prevention upside down, devastating the lives of thousands of gay men lulled by unsafe sex incentivising HIV campaigns and myriad other despicable schemes designed to encourage us to abandon condoms.

          2. Common sense 27 Jan 2013, 6:05am

            Eh, I have never once in my life seen an HIV campaign ADVOCATING unsafe sex. The only thing I can think of are the more pragmatic campaigns that focus on the fact that a lot of men bareback and try and challenge them in creative ways to minimise risk. but advocating abandoning condoms? Think you got the wrong end of the loo brush there mate.

          3. Well actually, “mate”, HIV campaigns of recent years HAVE been found to incentivise sexual risk-taking, particularly among younger gay men, due to the mixed messages and confusing signals they omit, as well you know.

            But of course you are programmed to deny that 100 per cent, come what may, just as you are siding with Moslems against your own brethren in this debate, so what is the point?

            People, stop wasting your time arguing with the likes of Common Sense:- they are beyond reason and are thirsty for our energy because they are so closed off as human beings:- their compulsive denialism, twisting of facts to suit their preferred outcomes and downright lying renders them either borderline or outright sociopathic.

            Pity them by all means but stop feeding them your energy.

      2. Hostile, leftwing asian journalists were disappointed about receiving no racist abuse at EDL demos. http://bit.ly/hIKNUm

        Would that be the same EDL that has black men, asian women, muslims, jews, ex-muslims, and chinese men at its demos? http://on.fb.me/W4V24m

        Even communist newspapers reported that the police’s Domestic Extremism Unit reported that EDL is not a far-right organisation. http://bit.ly/eP1efT

        Keep on being misled by the gay media as to what EDL is about.

  13. Ed Stevens 24 Jan 2013, 4:46pm

    To be fair it’s a problem with Christianity as well amongst younger believers. Just read some of the blogs of young catholics (i.e Catholic and Loving It) and you will see how they have become fired up by this ageing and extremist Pope and live of every odious word that drop from his mouth.

  14. The Catholic Again! 24 Jan 2013, 4:51pm

    As we are NORMALLY discriminated against by virtually every creed, faith and colour both in this country and abroad, we shouldn’t be surprised at just one more group enjoying the pleasures of hate crime. Here’s a sad fact; mankind HAS to have something to hate. It is programmed in our genes. I don’t expect the Muslim community to “tolerate” gays EVER. Their faith is their life, they have no “secular” world as we do, and do not recognise the “right” of our laws. Sure, we in the gay community will tolerate all forms of diversity, but we shouldn’t “expect” anything in return. Anyone who does is pretty naif.

  15. All his critical proposals avoid LGBTs and he just talks of race and religion.

  16. fabrizio pagan 24 Jan 2013, 5:18pm

    Am I the only one to have noticed that the words ‘sexual orientation’ are only used in the PinkNews’s own title ["Wais Islam says (...) it’s important to remember the area belongs to people of all ethnicities, sexual orientations and religions."]. However, in the actual piece Islam writes that “(Whitechapel) belongs to people of all ethnicities, cultural orientations and religions” and the only reference to the gay hatred bullying comes in the shape of ”a video in which they harass non-muslims with homophobic remarks”. Quite a big difference! ‘Homophobic’ here is used as an aggravating factor in the bullying against non-muslims, NOT a gay man! I.e. it’s terrible that they have called those people such dreadful names! Rather than: harassing gay people is NOT acceptable. Then he explains that “(Whitechapel) has more alcohol outlets (…) than much of Kensington and Chelsea and three mosques only!”. Well, first of all the Whitechapel mosque alone has a capacity of 5,000. And the last ti

  17. fabrizio pagan 24 Jan 2013, 5:27pm

    last time I checked there were nearly 60 mosques in East London (Newham and Waltham Forest)! As far as the alcohol, well, I can’t imagine the 100’s of curry houses in the Brick Lane area would be very popular if they didn’t sell any, would they? Then he goes: ‘perhaps it is a feeling of isolation that these homophobic, although anecdotal, incidents keep happening’. What about lack of education? He then talks about making ”Britain a more multicultural and liberal society where individual orientations are respected by people of all ethnicities and religious and non-religious backgrounds.” Again, he can’t bring himself to say sexual orientation: it’s either ‘cultural’ or ‘personal’! Very odd, to say the least. Towards the end, he once again reiterates that people shouldn’t be insulted for their “perceived ethnic and religious backgrounds.”

  18. fabrizio pagan 24 Jan 2013, 5:28pm

    “As Christianity and Islam are arguably the only two religions in the world that share the same Amen after the Lord’s prayer (…) there’s absolutely no reason why members of both communities cannot continue to live side by side.” Conveniently leaving out atheists, hindus, sikhs, jews and anyone else evidently perceived as an infidel. Smarten up, people and learn to read and listen carefully to this dangerously deceitful language!

  19. Yet again playing the race and religion card whilst trying to play down the homophobia typical.

    Do these people seriously think anyone is going to listen to this?

  20. fabrizio pagan 24 Jan 2013, 5:50pm

    My comments don’t get published. The mind boggles? Am I being censored. Yet, I was being very civilized and articulate…?

  21. It is almost 2 years to the day when muslims plastered east London with Gay Free Zone. Fiyaz Mughal OBE wrote an article for PN, blaming christians, jews, muslims and sikhs for the Gay Free Zone campaign (yes, in that order). The delusional disco bunnies all clapped and marvelled at his tolerance.

    Meanwhile, the muslim councillors in Tower Hamlets get away scot-free with shouting homophobic abuse at other councillors. http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/03/04/homophobic-hatred-growing-in-lutfur-rahmans-east-london-council-chambers/ Why would gangs of thugs think they shouldn’t get away with it. They know 1 fool got a slap on the wrist over the Gay Free Zone episode.

  22. Lynda Yilmaz 24 Jan 2013, 6:00pm

    My (gay) son lives in Tower Hamlets in the heart of a Bangladeshi community and is often harrassed and subject to hate speech by muslim youths. On one occasion they were ‘canvassing’ ostensibly to invite people to the mosque, but it was suspected the real reason they were doing it was to see if they could flush out a few gay people. They are reprehensible imbeciles, who really know nothing about their own religion. I remember a group of muslim youths in Tower Hamlets a few years ago on a protest march against capitalism, fully decked out in designer track suits and trainers.

  23. So we have a minor public figure sort of sueing for peace. Pathetic.

    The responsibility for all this lies entirely within the muslim community. Until we have a loud chorus of muslim leaders condemning this behaviour and clearing out hate videos and sermons from mosques, muslim intolerance will continue and non-muslim fear and prejudice will harden.

  24. You agree with Wais Islam? Open your eyes. Every year Hizb ut Tahrir has a conference in Tower Hamlets. They want to implment full sharia law, and their views are supported by 20 muslim organisations in Britain (classified by Quilliam as fascist). For 25 years HUT has been saying: kill homosexuals. Muslims NEVER protest against these conferences. EDL was stopped by the police from protesting at their last conference.

    Homophobic abuse is shouted at councillors in the council chamber. No-one is prosecuted for it.

    The police & “gay leaders” colloborated after the Gay Free Zone campaign to pretend only 1 man did it.

    When Oliver Hemsley was stabbed through the spine by a gang of muslims outside a gay bar in Tower Hamlets, the gay media covered it up. There was NO report in 2008 by Pink News of that incident.

    1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 4:02am

      Actually WAIS Islam himself along with most of the mosques in the East End (apart from the East London Mosque itself) have indeed condemned this conference. But then James, I rather doubt you lot at the EDL ever take any notice of what Muslims actually say. You would rather just boot their faces in to shut them up.

      1. Sounds reasonable to me.

        1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 12:29pm

          Sound reasonable to kick them in the face rather than listen to what they say? That sums you up Dee I’m afraid.

      2. I have been to plenty of muslim public meetings alone, and confronted them with difference between the things they say in private or in their texts compared to the things they say to the public. I’ve never kicked anyone in the face, but I have been on the receiving end of racist violence from muslims (as has my non-white boyfriend).

        If EDL was about racist violence, why is it that the non-white people who go to EDL demos have no problems there? http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/02/05/hanging-out-in-the-midst-of-the-edl/

  25. They’re the ones that started it! We already show tolerance… perhaps if they got their heads out of the Koran for a moment or two, then they would understand better. Muslim area indeed! Fine… if you want it like that, we’ll put a fence around Whitechapel, keep your lot in side the perimeter. As for snatching alcohol off people….

    Don’t you have anything better to do?

    1. ‘… Muslim area indeed! Fine… if you want it like that, we’ll put a fence around Whitechapel, keep your lot in side the perimeter…’

      Oh that splendid idea popularized by a man with little mustache who invaded Poland in 1939, apparently an idea so popular that is being use by Jewish state to round up Palestinians in a little ghetto

      1. Well, what else do you suggest then? If they are so damn protective of ‘their area’ then they can keep it. Let it continue to nose dive into a sh|thole. It was a nice area until it was ghettoised by this lot. Happy moved out to a much better area.

        1. Imagination is not your strongest suit really is it? Majority of Muslims in UK are not that bother about gay people, may I suggest a
          link to survey

          http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/06/27/poll-says-muslims-are-proud-of-britains-gay-rights

          1. Then if they ain’t bothered why are we seeing incidents like this? Or is it just the teenagers and young Muslims are trying to keep the old traditions going?

  26. This false idea that Islam is tolerant of all other faiths is a joke , just ask the last Kafirs of the hindu kush – the Kalashi tribe in Pakistan who are under daily pressure to lose there Animist faith and become muslems

    1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 4:06am

      Unlike you James, I have actually visited Gilgit and Chitral in Pakistan. You omit the fact that their religion was tolerated for a millennium in these valleys and that recent attacks come from extremists in the Taleban and not from the wider Pakistani society that is generally appalled by things like this. Remember that the prime target of the Taleban is actually moderate or secular Muslims so it is wrong to paint their actions as some sort of Islamic mainstream.

      1. I have been in Pakistan twice now , in 1998 i spent 3 days in Bumberet , attacks against Kalash go back before the telelban = up till 1950 the tribe had 5 valleys , but today Urtsun and Jineret koh are totally lost to Kalashi tradition + Bumberet is now Muslem majority so slowly but surely the process begun by the Afgan dictator in 1896 to convert all Kafir is still very much on coarse .

      2. Wrong i have been in Pakistan twice now , I visited Bumberet in 1998 so please do not think you know me when you have no idea

  27. Weasel words indeed and avoidance of the real issue. Muslims will never accept LGBT people because their fascist ideology forbids it and because of extremists preachers whipping up hatred. As for the so called “moderate muslims” [an oxymoron] they are as always absent and silent. Ever heard of a gang of gay people out beating up muslims – no thought not.

    1. Great idea! Anyone up for it?

      1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 12:58pm

        Nice Dee, nice. You would rather kick a Muslim in the face than let him or her speak,

  28. A positive message that will be criticized and ignore by both PN readers and morons from Muslim patrol

    1. Ahh, Kane… still skulking round here I see. Nothing better to do today?

      1. Clearly your bigotry fuels your insecurity, that proverbial chip on the shoulder and it shows

        1. Dave North 25 Jan 2013, 9:20am

          There is nothing bigoted in DEFENDING yourself from religious idiots,

          1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 12:24pm

            Do you think all religious people are “idiots”?

          2. TEEGB is not defending anything, he/she is using bigotry to attack

  29. As an ex-muslim, I believe the issue that Muslims have with the LGBT community (apart from what is said in their holy scripture) is as simple as them not having had the experience of socialising with people of liberal leaning attitudes. Most Muslims, if not almost all, suffer from living in a small bubble surrounded with narrow-minded people. One of the reasons why many Britons attitudes to LGBT have changed is because it is now a social norm to be tolerant of everyone. Another more satisfying reason is that people have become enlightened by the fact that there is no valid reason to object. The former can be extended to muslims through more active integration into the whole of society, open discussions, campaigning and education. The latter is probably the result of relative poverty, in which case more ought to be done to give these people equal opportunities to progress in life and form logical opinions.

    1. ‘Most Muslims, if not almost all, suffer from living in a small bubble surrounded with narrow-minded people.’

      Perhaps they should branch out a little and let go of many things they hold dear once in a while!

      Send them a few hundred stonewall postcards too.

    2. Cue faith schools – where narrow-mindedness and intolerance can be nurtured and flourish amongst young impressionable minds.

      This problem has only just begun.

    3. “Bubble” as in self-imposed apartheid/ghettoisation?

      Rather proves the lie and deceit on which the multicultural “dream” was sold to the British people in order to destroy its culture and infrastructure by the PC Nazi machine, no?

    4. I’m sorry Umar that you have not received support. There is a lot of truth in what you say. It was the Tory GLC in the mid 1970s which decided (along with muslims) to turn Tower Hamlets into a muslim ghetto. Labour and the far-left have encouraged this all over the country. Even the ex-muslim, revolutionary communist Kenan Malik agrees that this is what was done.

      But it is too late now. The muslim Quilliam Foundation says that there are now 20 major islamo-fascist organisations in Britain (including the federation of islamic students, FOSIS).

      There is a theologicial basis for muslims to segregate (the koran says “do not take jews and christians as your friends”), and this has been exploited by political parties and by islamo-fascists.

  30. Grave Maurice 24 Jan 2013, 8:35pm

    Actions are better than words… the “good” Muslim community in LBTH needs to mobilise, identify who are the intolerant people and show them how strongly they disagree with their actions… the radicals are not going to suddenly change their view after reading Pink News (as if they do) they are going to carry on regardless, words are not going to achieve anything other than give a false impression that things have got better. What’s needed is the nice, tolerant, Muslims to show total intolerance to these thugs and to oppose all bigoted and ignorant behaviour. I would say this would include forcing the ELM to stop inviting people who spout hate, stop employing people who encourage prejudice and hateful ideas, demonstrate outside the offices of Anjem Choudary and the IFE and close them down. I also think the covering of faces by women should be actively discouraged because it ‘appears’ hostile to non Muslims even if that may not be the intention of the wearer.

    1. Good luck with that.

  31. Remember the Black Horse? 24 Jan 2013, 8:44pm

    If the East London Mosque is genuinely opposed to this sort of intolerance and it wants to help make this bigotry stop then it should employ a gay Muslim as an in-house LGBT Liason Officer to help other Muslims who are gay to come out and to ensure homophobia is stamped out.

    1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 2:19am

      That is about as likely as Westminster Cathedral doing the same. Wais does not speak for the East London mosque BTW.

  32. Fancy that. This is the same Wais Islam who left politics after an anti Semitic rant at a local journalist. Tolerance indeed. Did Pink News know who this was before they asked him to write? See here http://trialbyjeory.wordpress.com/2010/09/26/anti-semites-and-respectlutfur-backers/

    1. Right, independent view from Jewish blog that takes aim at anything that’s non kosher, i mean how credible is that

      1. Antisemite!!

        Oops, silly me, that’s YOUR PC trolling tactic!!

        1. Oh that old chestnut , you are more of a moron then I thought

    2. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 2:31am

      Ted, you consistently misrepresent Mr Islam in your blog. There are a number of factual inaccuracies in the accusations you make and there is no substance whatever to your ludicrous claim that he mounted an antisemitic attack on you. Readers of Pink News should know that you work for the Express and have made a career on that paper in misrepresenting a whole series of minorities, not just Muslims.

  33. Thank you Mr Islam for your welcome comments.

    1. Grow a spine – you pathetic suck up

  34. What a crock of sh!t. This man is as dangerous as the abusive thugs. Suggesting a tea party with the gays to sort things out? I’d love to see how many Muslims turn up to that! I suppose he would have told the Jews and N@zis to be tolerant of each other.
    “I am against the idea of calling the group a Muslim patrol” Well I am against calling a banana a banana. These pigs were Muslim and they identified themselves as such. When all the other Muslims in the area speak out against them then I will believe they are not representative. I won’t hold my breath.

    1. He just spoke against Muslim patrol, doh

    2. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 1:18am

      I can vouch for him as a genuinely good man who is resolutely against homophobia and also passionate about community cooperation.

      1. Perhaps you should pick your friends more carefully.

        More Common Purpose than Common Sense, methinks.

  35. Find them, jail them. Problem solved.

    1. Spanner1960 25 Jan 2013, 9:22am

      Unfortunately, if only it were that simple.
      The people that preach this hatred never get caught, they just breed another generation of gullible people to do their bidding.

  36. For years bigots and believers of backward religions in this country have been encouraged to believe that their beliefs- whatever they are- should be “celebrated” and “tolerated” by society for fear of being branded racist. This is even when these abhorrent views run contrary to those of a liberal, democratic society.

    This was a huge mistake; you cannot have your cake and eat it. And these thugs believing that they can act and get away with acting as the Taleban or Islamic religious police on British streets are a product of this.

    But regardless of excuses for religious bigotry which has been “celebrated” by public bodies like Tower Hamlets council and the Met, the Met need to get out on the streets, uphold the law and stop being scared of their own shadows and squeals of Islamophobia – and protect us, and for that matter anybody else going about their lawful business.

    No LGBTQ person should be ashamed to walk down any street, nor should any woman have to explain herself or

    1. The police do nothing about Muslim intolerance and bullying. Why not? This country will become Muslim dominated and run within 30 years – or leas.

  37. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 2:14am

    Have to say that I am utterly appalled by some of the responses here. Mr Islam went out of his way to politely reach out in a plea to oppose extremists like the thugs in these videos. That he has been so insulted for doing so is deeply disappointing.

    In the end we can only really have a tolerant country when we learn to show mutual acceptance and understanding. Mr Islam tried to do this, we should do likewise.

    1. Common sense – it is apologists like you who have DESTROYED this country and undermined the great social achievements we had made. So we should learn to accept and understand an ideology that wants us all dead?? Rubbish – it is they who must change. People are born gay. Nobody is born Muslim.

      1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 9:48am

        No, we should learn to live alongside Muslims just as they need to learn to live alongside us. It is about mutual tolerance. NOT ever excusing bigotry on either side. But tolerating the right to a private life that each of us have.

        1. Yes but we DO tolerate them…it is clear you are just one of these communists who are in total denial but incase you did not notice it is not gay people harassing Muslims it is (once again) Muslims threatening gay people. In this instance declaring parts of London to be exclusively “theirs” and menacing anyone they don’t like the look of who walks into it.

          1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 1:01pm

            Communist? Actually no I am not. I am a Quaker who used to live in a Muslim country.

            Anti-Muslim intimidation and violence has been well documented since 911 and anyone with an acquaintance with the English Defence League (which unfortunately I have had) will know that there are gay people out there threatening violence to Muslims in very potent terms.

            All WAIS Islam is pleading for is an open dialogue and friendship between minorities and not all of this high octane prejudice.

    2. How can we ever tolerate intolerance?

      Will you tolerate it when you’re gay bashed?

      1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 9:50am

        I never in any place said that. Most younger Muslims do not hate gay people. Some of them are even gay themselves. Mr Islam himself does not hate gay people. Why should we hate all Muslims because of the actions of a small number of bigots?

        1. We should not hate all Muslims. But we should be intolerant of the gay bashing depicted HERE which is what prompted Mr. Warsi to come and lecture the gay reads at Pink News on intoelrance while at the same time utterly failing to address homophobia

          I do not tolerate gay bashing. I do not tolerate straight people telling gay people to be silent about gay bashing

          I think Mr. Warsi does Muslims a disservice in this – because there are far too many good, honest, kind and ACCEPTING (screw tolerance, I’m a person to be accepted not a blight to be tolerated) Muslim people who deserve better than to have someone chide an abused minority to be silent in their name

          1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 9:17pm

            It’s Wais Islam, not Baroness Warsi (shudder). He was actually talking mainly about the intolerance of the people in the video and making a suggestion for how to tackle the disaffection that can lead to such behaviour. I don’t see him chiding gay people any where in his piece so I am not sure where you get that from.

        2. The 2009 survey from the Guardian showed 99.5% of muslims in Britain were intolerant of homosexuality. That survey was run by muslims. It showed French & German muslims were far more tolerant. But idiots like you claimed the survey was run by people who hated muslims.

          Other surveys in Britain show that the younger generation of muslims are 3x more extremists than their grandparents generation. You are oblivious to facts.

          That you are a Quaker says it all. The only group of christians who will offer conference facilities to islamo-nazi groups.

          1. Common sense 28 Jan 2013, 6:29am

            You think Quakers sympathise with islamo-nazis? Don’t be absurd. I know what absurdly exaggerated claims Harry’s place made. The one day meeting that Harry’s place so objected to involved groups who participated in the Stop the War Coallition. It was on this basis that the booking was made and the programme of that day backed that up, it was actually a far right Jewish group that tried to intimidate Friends House out of hosting the conference and when Friends House refused to bend set out to put out substantial misinformation about the nature of the event. Why did they do this? This particular group has a big problem with the Quaker groups operating in palestine and Israel on conflict resolution and on supporting Palestinian refugees. They have dubbed us antisemitic, which is kind of laughable since the Quakers who have been most forthright in the Israeli conflict resolution are actually Jewish themselves.

    3. Dave North 25 Jan 2013, 9:29am

      How dare you even to presume that it is we that should be “tolerated” in our own f\/ckin country.

      Take your ridiculous religion back to the caves where it belongs.

      1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 9:52am

        I am a Quaker. What caves do you imagine I come from?

        1. I was relating to Islam.

          1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 1:44pm

            What caves do you imagine Islam came from? Is that some kind of crude racist way of belittling islam?

          2. Whichever caves it was, t’would seem that all on here with the notable exception of “Kane”, your PC stooge, wishes you’d join them.

            Let’s face it, you hate Great Britain, loathe “little Englanders”…

            Why not just pack a bag and emigrate to Iran and see how well you integrate there?

            After all, it couldn’t be much worse than Bethnal Green…

    4. He went out of his way to try and silence us. He may as well have come here and said “will you homos shut up whining you’re not important”.

      In his whole piece he barely even mentioned gay people – despite gay men being the victim of the attack he’s supposed to be speaking of. It was a clear “shut up, talk about this instead.” His use of the word “anecdote” even with the video shows that he’s doubting this even happened, denying a homophobic attack

      He did not reach out to gay people, he expressly ignored us in a gay publication no less. He showed NO acceptance of gay people. No understanding of us. And nor do you

      Sorry, “Common Sense,” it must be hard when the gay people presume to protest abuse rather than recognising our place.

    5. Common sense shows that when some one can not even bring them selves to name a group , then it is that person who has the problem . But given that you are able to except the the denial of the native rights of the Kalashi tribe by Pakistan it is no leap that the rights of native English people are also of no concern to you . Seeing you love Islam so much you should follow others and convert your self , you all ready live in la la land so why not make it official .

  38. Sunday 27th January is International Holocaust Day remembering the victims of Hitler. All Muslim nations in the world wholeheartedly supported him in his genocide of the Jews.

    Homosexuals were the second largest group to die in the concentration camps.

    Neo-n@zis nowadays scurry around like rats spreading their hate surreptitiously. Meanwhile Muslims are proud to proclaim their hatred of gays and Jews.

    Islam is the only ‘religion’ that openly calls for gays and Jews to be exterminated.

    Whose side are you on?

    1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 11:42am

      All Muslim nations supported Hitler? Don’t be absurd. In 1939 most Muslim nations were British colonies and fought alongside us against Hitler.

      1. Mister Fister 25 Jan 2013, 2:48pm

        Your historical knowledge is impaired by your clearly fanatical pro-Muslim views. The numerous hysterical posts on this page in which you deny the truth about the hate directed at the LGBT community from Muslims lead me to suspect you are not what you seem. Your attitudes and platitudes are not those of any Quaker I know. Say ‘Hello’ to your Imam for me and tell him what a good little boy you’ve been trying to sow dissent among us and muddying the truth. We know your agenda. We’re onto you…

        1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 9:08pm

          Really? See as a Quaker I am enjoined to look for “that of God” in other people. That generally means I will not go along at all with prevailing prejudices against one group or another but rather take people as I find them. When living beside Sylhetti neighbours in Tower Hamlets I did just that and had many local Muslim friends and I came into contact with Mr Islam.

          I do not actually deny that there are Muslims who hate gay people and if you actually read my posts you would see that. I have been campaigning for years against muslims, christians and jews who use their religion as a crude justification for potent homophobia.

          Mr Islam is not one of these homophobes though and he does not deserve this outpouring of hate.n

      2. In the 1930s Germany place training camps in the middle east, so that National Socialists could learn about islam.

        The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt modelled itself on Hitler’s party. They had joint operations in Palestine, killing jews there 10 years before killing them in Europe.

        The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem raised 2 muslims SS Divisions. On Armistice Day in 2010, the UAF got a shock to hear British muslims in London shouting they wanted the Muslim SS to rise again. Britian wanted the Grand Mufit prosecuted at Nurmberg for his role in killing jews (France allowed him to escape).

        After WW2 many National Socialists converted to islam and moved to muslim countries. And even the founder of Combat 18 recently converted to islam.

        The National Socialists got the idea of making jews and homosexuals wear identifying signs from the way that jews and christians were treated historically in muslim countries.

        http://bit.ly/10Tv7zr

        1. Common sense 25 Jan 2013, 9:26pm

          (Sigh) the Nazis had a policy to foster insurrection in UK colonies by forming strong links with native populations. They did that in Palestine and in Egypt where the populations were Muslim and yes the grand mufti even met with hitler. But beyond that, any notion that there was some commonality with Islam is shattered by the fact that German Muslims largely ended up in concentration camps.

          Actually the most successful pro nazi native force in the BRitish empire was in India and not the Middle East and led by Chandra Bose, a Hindu. And the association there has been durable with many rightwing supporters of Hindu nationalist parties invoking Hitler in a final solution . . . . for the “Muslim problem”

          I m not drawing conclusions from that. It is a very sorry part of world history. But it does rather undermine your simplistic little Islam/nazi narrative.

    2. goats_ebooks 29 Jan 2013, 5:47pm

      5.9 million Jews, 3 million Soviet prisoners of war, 2 million Poles, anywhere up to 1.5 million Romani, 250,000 people with a variety of disabilities, 200,000 Freemasons (though that number overlaps with Jews iirc), 25,000 Slovenes, 15,000 gay people (few LBT people – I think that lesbians tended to be classed as asocial and I imagine trans people would either have been treated as their birth gender or persecuted as disabled people, although I may be remembering incorrectly). The above are rough figures, but it’s about that.

      I’ve got no idea why we’re even having this conversation – as Common Sense notes the Muslim/Nazi link is tenuous and much more complicated than you’re making it out to be. Plus, it doesn’t even really matter how many people died – mass killing and extermination is wrong, and the Shoah wasn’t 400 times as bad as the persecution of gay people because 400 times as many people died. I just think that you shouldn’t erase the suffering of millions of people.

  39. How does his PC tw(i/a)t defend the parallel epidemic of Moslem peadophile gangs targeting white children?

    Well?!

  40. So how on earth, then, does this PC tw(i/a)t defend the rampant abuse of white children by Moslem peadophile gangs?

    Does Mr. Islam also deny that paedophilia is another very real and emerging problem in his community and that, unless stamped out here and now, will condemn generations of white children and gay men to rule by fear by Moslem thugs?

    Well?!

  41. To say you are different than anyone or that one person doesn’t belong or deserve your respece, is a form of self-discriminaton born of ignorance and cowardly fear.

    Physical or verbal violence is always the projection of cowards who are afraid to see what a disapointment they are to themselves.

    No one can feel any sense of nourishing self-pride or esteem by abusing another person.

  42. Blah,Blah, Blah, empty rhetoric asking us to be patient and understanding of these thugs underprivileged background living in social housing , on benefits paid by us, that can’t get a job in canary wharf, it must be racism(race card playing is boring at this stage) not the fact they are behaving like vigilantes. The article is biased and completely disgusting in that it wishes to portray radical , extreme, fanatical muslims as some type of victim for harassing White people/women/lgbt.

  43. I’m sorry but I really do struggle to see how I should be more tolerant. how many Muslims do you see being vocal in their support of gay rights? and their backwards culture of family shame, and lack of women’s rights does not make me think highly of them. I’m sure they’re not all bad, but still.

  44. What a disgraceful headline. How dare anyone lecture gay people on ‘tolerating Muslims?’ Should we stop imprisoning them? Preaching that they all be killed because Quentin Crips said so? Are we hanging them from cranes? What’s that? We don’t actually do that? Fancy that.

    You should take down this craven, insulting and misleading headline. Tolerance is something Muslims, not gay people, need to learn about. Being fangry about frequent homophobic preaching, violence and incitement by some Muslims is not ‘being intolerant of Muslims’, it is perfectly right and reasonable.

    1. Common sense 26 Jan 2013, 2:15am

      Suggest you read above. At least one poster has suggested it would be a good idea to have gay vigilantes hunting down Muslims and beating them up.

      Some Muslims do need to learn tolerance but by the same token so do some gay people.

      1. “At least one poster” who preaches violence against these hoodlums does not represent the rest of us you jerk, whereas Mosques throughout our land are preaching to their flocks hatred and intolerance towards all infidels, with us at the top of the “to bash” list.

        How you PC terrorists cling on to any small detail you can to tar us all with the same brush.

        Despicable, and I just pray that if they do resort to physical abuse they will get to the likes of you and Kane first before coming after all the good, decent, honest contributors to this debate so that you can receive a jolly good dose of your own medicine.

  45. New Aussie 26 Jan 2013, 2:20am

    I’m seriously starting to wonder whether the EDL were behind these videos given the full force of comments from EDL supporters above.

    1. Common Sense, we know it’s you! You’ve been found out again! Did your Imam suggest you pretend to be someone else after we’d rumbled you?

      As most posters know, the EDL are not tolerated here and are soon spotted and told where to go. We suggest you scurry off and join them.

      1. And “Common Sense”, pray do tell where “Iris” – formerly known as “Stu” who used to masquerade as “Patrick”, “Charles”, “William”, take your pick folks! – has been in this debate?

        Surprisingly silent for a debate very much up her alley, eh?

        How low can you go in resorting to compare us to a far right thug party?

        How bl@#dy well dare you!

        1. Of course it should be pointed out that this new tactic – calling anyone who disagrees with Common Sense’s insane ramblings – is being employed now because he can’t scream “racist” at us as we have a legitimate reason to point out some home truths about how Moslems abuse our hospitality and ride roughshod over our culture.

          Just how low will this deranged lunatic sink in his desperate and deluded efforts to make us seem like the perpetrators of the hate crimes being committed at us by feral Moslem youth, complicitly aided as they are by their community members who remain silent and refuse to take serious action to root out the problem, one wonders?

          1. Sorry folks, was not too clear above:- I was referring of course to CS’s new wheeze of branding us all NLP members because screaming “racist” in this contet would not work.

            And as someone who’s grandparents fled to the UK to escape the Nazis i find that tactic truly despicable and downright offensive.

            Nazism has found its new wind in PC terrorism.

          2. Again silly me:- NLP is CS’s religion, I was of course referring to the EDL (blush).

            I would also hasten to add that were you correct in your delusion that we are all EDL-affiliated we would also be mouthing off against Sikhs and Hindus alike, yet somehow these peaceful religions know how to integrate and live side by side with other races and creeds.

            Strange that! (Rolls eyes in sarcastic manner)

    2. Just as the EDL were supposedly behind the Gay Free Zone stickers? Plenty of risible socialists and self-hating gay groups made that claim 2 years ago. The police admitted that a group of muslims were seen leaving East London Mosque with the stickers, but colluded with Rainbow Hamlets, IMAAN, etc. to conceal that from the public. One muslim was convicted of vandalism rather than hate crime for the Gay Free Zone campaign (and then a few months later sent down on unrelated terrorism charges).

      I suppose EDL also posed as muslims and got jobs in Gallup, so it could run the survey that showed that muslims in Britain have zero tolerance for homosexuality. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality You’ll be claiming EDL was responsible for 9/11 and 7/7 next.

      If the mythical majority of moderate of moderate muslims protested against islamic terrorism and islamic cultural terrorism, there would be no EDL.

  46. Cant we all just all hold hands and love one another, we are family. We need to build a civilisation of love. Lets come together people

    1. Yeah, right.

  47. Wais Islam knows damned well that the “no compulsion in religion” quote from the Koran is abrogated by later instructions to convert, subjugate or kill non-believers. Mohammad initially started off being tolerant ( otherwise he’d have been in big trouble) but as he grew more powerful he very quickly changed his tune. As Geert Wilders has pointed out – the Koran is arguably as bad as ‘Mein Kampf.’

  48. The actions of this ‘Muslim squad’ represent a larger picture of Islam. Most Muslims (and I speak from experience) hold strong conservative views, views including homosexuality.
    To combat this education is needed in the community.
    While I respect the right to hold your religious views, you simply don’t have the right to impose your views on others. And if you want to live in a religious society, where homosexuality is outlawed,feel free to leave.
    We tolerate differences here, but that tolerance ends at intolerance..

    1. Common sense 27 Jan 2013, 5:53am

      Well it might surprise you but I agree wholeheartedly with that.

      1. That is very big of you CS.

        Are we meant to be grateful for that?

  49. The thing with these PC zealots who infest these boards is they wouldn’t knew what truth was if it jumped up and bit them on the proverbial.

    Take Common Sense, for instance:- even his moniker is pure Orwellian double speak as all he was taught at his PC training course was to speak utter baloney.

    Look around you:- social services kidnap children from responsible parents, elderly patients are being wilfully starved to death in hospital wards, emergency services watch as people drown in 6 inches of water, HIV prevention encourages the spread of HIV…

    Examples of the above are now reported each and every day in the media, revealing a cancer in full view that is destroying our society bit by bit.

    Gay people need to wake up to this en mass as PC seeks to use US to destroy free speech and so advance the PC agenda to its end game.

    1. …and of course PC seems to defend and protect the rights of Moslems to behave how they like with total impunity.

      Well, now that we are on the other end of this pervasive and insidious doctrine, we can finally see the destructive force of PC for what it truly is.

      Not pretty, is it?

  50. So who IS “Common Sense” then?

    Remember when “Stu” used to dominate these boards with his PC claptrap, manifesting variously under a welter of pseudonyms even in the same debates (caught red-handed due to his manic multi-tasking I hasten to add), before undergoing a sex change and returning as the lovely and sadly no less ubiquitous… well, I am sure you all know who I am referring to here.

    Yet she has mysteriously been noticeable by her absence from this debate, or has she?

    Look us in the iris and reveal your true colours, “Common Sense”…

    1. velcrovera 26 Jan 2013, 9:59pm

      So Common Sense is/was Iris who is/was Stu who is/was Patrick and so on and so on a along? Is that what you are trying to say SamB?

      1. Common sense 27 Jan 2013, 5:48am

        I am none of the above. I am myself (honestly)

        1. The point being, Common Sense/Iris/Stu/whoever you really are, you have demonstrated in this thread and no doubt in many others under your multitude of aliases that you not to be trusted or believed, so your vow of honesty means nothing.

          I am sure if Iris was her own, non-multi-faceted person she would have put me right by now, but still she remains elusive whenever you hog the limelight.

          You can only spin so many plates, as you have found to your cost on many an occasion, erm, “mate”.

          1. Common sense 27 Jan 2013, 7:09am

            I do not have a multitude of aliases dear. It might seem hard for your teeny little brain to comprehend but there are several other people out there who probably just have the same opinions as I do.

    2. I actually thought “stu” was a ruse for the BNP to create further division/conflict, that there was no way such a wishy washy, pathetic pc apologist could exist with all his convenient personal “stories”? to somehow attempt to influence us.

      1. That would certainly explain a lot, Rapture.

        It would appear at least that Stuart Ross is not an EDL mole, here to stir up tensions even further.

        You will note that under his various other guises Mr. Ross, or should that be Mz. Ross – is a master agitator and PC apologist par excellence.

        It will be interesting to see if he dares post again as “Iris”.

        He will most likely create yet another persona to hide behind, but the poor lamb doesn’t realise just now transparent he is.

        Indeed I have been aware of “Iris” for quite a while and was waiting for a debate such as this and the right moment such as the one he set himself up for – when he dared to brand us all EDL members because he was unable to spit his usual “racist” epithet – to expose him.

        We are watching your next move, Mr. Ross…

        1. I believe stu, common traitor filth, whatever his name is , has actually isolated more from even considering/browsing his posts, from his extreme, Anti English, homophobic fanaticism on these threads and his pathetic attempts at hoping to appear liberal/diplomatic .

  51. Samuel Poirot 27 Jan 2013, 11:32am

    “COMMON SENSE EXPOSED”

    Pink News veterans will recall that the once ubiquitous “Stu” wrote an article for these pages in which he sought to push the PC agenda to criminalise free and open speech:-

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/12/20/comment-should-the-law-protect-us-from-insults/

    As someone who has long dished out the insults on these forums as, variously, Stu / William / Patrick / Charles… and, of late, his drag moniker Iris, he sure doesn’t walk his talk.

    “Stu” was subsequently exposed as a serial user of aliases to subvert and engineer consensus on these forums towards an extreme liberal left wing PC bias because this multi-plate spinner kept forgetting to switch aliases between posts, so he could be responding as “Stu” but in the guise of “Charles” ad nauseum.

    He also claimed to be a paramedic with an awful lot of time on his hands to be able to spend all waking hours patrolling and subverting these boards.

    What alias will he dare dream up next one shudders…

    1. Samuel Poirot 27 Jan 2013, 11:58am

      Again I ask, where is Iris in this entire debate?

      I note that she has only made 219 postings as herself in the last 7 days averaging only 31 a day, which is well below her batting average, unless, unless…

      (twirls moustache and rolls eyes sarcastically)

      1. Common sense 27 Jan 2013, 2:13pm

        I am not Stu. From that link he looks considerably younger than I do. Plus we do not live in the same country and follow entirely different professions. But heck, who am I kidding. Whatever I post will convince you that I am he and you have unmasked me.

        1. Yeah, right, and I live in Outer Mongolia and sell sand to Arabs for a living.

          Yawn…

  52. “large Muslim population in the area living primarily in social housing”, Not only hateful but welfare scroungers too.

    “Islam which advocates peace and tolerance for the entire humanity” Utter bullshit, Islam is a violent militant religion.

    “preserving their cultural values” which includes beating women and raping 9 year old girls…

  53. Common sense 28 Jan 2013, 2:28am

    Okay, my last post in this thread.
    First, I have been accused of being a sock puppet. I am not. I don’t post to pink news often and only contributed to this thread because I had forwarded the original statement to pinknews. I felt I owed to to Wais Islam to at least defend him a little.
    Thank you to those of you who engaged with the content of what he wrote even if you did not agree. if truth be told I had some reservations though I respect that Mr Islam’s intentions were good.
    For those of you who leapt in with ad hominem attacks and cyber bullying. Is your aggressive nastiness maybe the reason why some people might change their profile names from time to time? I imagine you have reasons in your private lives wh you are so nasty so have little will to return in kind.
    For those of you who saw this as an opportunity to state your potent hatred of all Muslims, well I rather doubt I’ll change your minds but it is important that you are challenged so that is what I hope I have done.

    1. Common sense 28 Jan 2013, 2:31am

      And for those of you who seem to think no Muslim voices have been raised against these fanatics:

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/imam-speaks-out-against-muslim-vigilantes-8468870.html

      Truth is there is much more variation in Islamic thought and teaching than most people imagine but a combination of piss poor media relations and a media not generally receptive to liberal Islam means that voices if dissent often fall on deaf ears.

      1. Well done CS. I don’t care how many aliases you may or may not have used but like you I have been appalled at a lot of the posts on this thread and particularly by the aggressive, unpleasant, mendacious attacks of Samuel B, enthusiastically supported by certain individuals to the extent of endorsing vigilante violence.

        I don’t care about downvotes or accusations of sock puppetry, but the vicious bullying displayed here, and particularly Samuel B, is deeply disheartening. There is little to no attempt to engage in reasoned debate on his part, just playground namecalling and the paranoid delusion of the far right seeking to shut down voices who don’t agree with them by resorting to out and out abuse.

        OBVIOUSLY we have every right to challenge this homophobia, and history has given us every reason to be deeply suspicious of all religion but damning all for the sins of a few is the litany of the oppressor, not the victim. You should be ashamed, but apparently lack the decency to see why

  54. It is not the media’s fault that this mythical “liberal islam” is not heard. There is no theological basis for “liberal islam”. The koran cannot be edited. Islam is brutal on dissenters and those who leave islam -witness the police protection required for Pakistanis in Britain who convert to christianity, never mind those who become avowed atheists. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF551E298DBA59B82

    In 2002, the islamic fascist party Hizb ut Tahrir got 10,000 muslims to a conference in Wembley (the BNP can probably get 200 people to a conference). Where were the 100s or 1000s of muslims protesting outside? Nowhere to be seen. Hizb ut Tahrir wants the overthrow of democracy and the execution of homosexuals. And no muslims protest against this.

    In recent years Hizb ut Tahrir (and other islamic fascist groups) have held conferences in Tower Hamlets. Where were these liberal muslims protesting outside? The only people who were protesting were white non-muslims.

  55. As bad as these vigilante groups are, there are worse things going on in London around islam. This time last year, Kurdish feminists reported on 9 y.o. muslim girls being married off. According to these feminists, the girls are going to primary school in the day, then being raped by their elderly husbands at night.

    http://www.islingtontribune.com/news/2012/jan/islington-girls-forced-marriage-age-nine

    That story is horrific. And the main media just ignore it. These little girls are being watched by school teachers who collude in this.

    At least gay men can move out of Tower Hamlets. No-one is helping these little girls. Our pathetic “Forced Marriage Unit” won’t help them.

    It is a national disgrace.

    1. Brainwashing of Islam into tiny children’s minds is the sin of the father passed from generation to generation.

      Whoever the architects of mass Islamic immigration were who believed that such extreme and sick customs would suddenly disappear when they arrived en mass to these shores – and that Moslems would “play cricket” with the British in a kaleidoscope of many cultures coming together as one – should be immediately tried for the treasonous and wilful unfolding disaster perpetuated on the indigenous populace that is unfolding before our eyes.

      Moslems will never integrate with our values:- those that try to escape the clutches of Islam are either found and dragged back screaming, murdered or rejected by their families.

      Now they are turning on their indigenous hosts and asserting Sharia Law in their ghettos:- we are only seeing the beginnings now but this problem will fester and grow until Islam colonises entire cities and start killing the “infidels” – ie. US.

  56. Saleem Khan says:

    As with every other instance of Islamist fanaticism, the Left remains silent. Case in point: I emailed several groups, including Unite Against Fascism (UAF), The Respect Party (RP), and The Socialist Workers Party (SWP), asking for their comments on the incidents. Want to guess how many replied to me?

    Zero.

    http://www.thecommentator.com/article/2575/the_deafening_silence_of_the_left_over_the_muslim_patrol

  57. burningworm 30 Jan 2013, 2:31pm

    Instead of trying to rewrite a comment why not comment on the comment.

  58. so sick of this kind of response to any Muslim on gay people aggression. Cries of “they don’t represent us” and attempts to deflect focus from the very real homophobic views of these particular Muslims (who didn’t come up with those ideas on their own) to how society ostracises Muslim youngsters, are not helpful. Saying that the answer is for “councils to encourage greater community cohesion” misses the point completely. A serious drive needs to be made within the Islamic community to challenge the views of the vocal and aggressive minority hiding behind the moderate but silent majority who spend their time saying “it wasn’t us” and looking the other way.

  59. Theres quite a lot of denial & watering down of these issues here.

    As others have said the problem comes from the Muslim community & the LGBT community are on the receiving end!

    Also…’there’s absolutely no reason why members of both communities cannot continue to live side by side simply because a couple of bigots insult people in East End streets’

    Wrong, firstly these are onging problems, this is far from being the first time, much worse has happened & often too, this includes murder of Gay people from Islamic bigots.

    I’m not happy with this article!

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