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Tory MP Tim Loughton: Gay people have told me they ‘don’t want to get married’

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  1. I can believe this. Some gays are happy being second class citizens.

    My answer to them is the same as to other homophobes- if you don’t want a gay marriage, don’t have one.

    1. You don’t need to believe it – because Tim Loughton is a liar. No people who are gay have told him or written to him saying they don’t want equal rights – he made it up. And I’ve seen this as a new tactic emerging in various places.
      http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/2/article_12818.php

      He said he’s a strong supporter of equal rights, but he’s a liar. HIs partliamentary record says otherwise;
      A pitiful 24%, and voting against many important pieces of legislation, such as a SORs.
      http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?mpid=40233&dmp=826

      Another dishonest Tory MP – busted. The poll on here a couples of years ago had 98% of PinkNews readers thought marriage equality was important.

      He seems to be lashing out because he wasn’t up to the job and got sacked from his ministerial post and now doesn’t have any power. Already tried to say his old department has gone to pot since he left.

      1. Yes, indeed!

        And, Tim Loughton, please hear this: some heterosexual people have told ME that they don’t want to get married. But what does that prove? There are clearly one hell of a lot of heterosexuals who DO want to get married!

    2. I 100% dont want to be married . But this is not a question about marriage , this is a question about equality. If only one gay person in this counrty wants to get married , then they should have that right. Equality has never been about numbers. Its a line in the law that gives every one the same civil rights. Your right about those gay people who choose to be second class citizens , except I call them cherry pickers. Because bet your bottom dollar they have fully embraced any law that has enhanced their lives, just as they should this one to enhance others. I dont fight for my equlity alone. Every letter I write , every vote I cast is for all LGBT people, and so should they. On all matters of equality we should all stand together and put aside our own needs

    3. Please can you residents of Brighton and Shoreham write to him and ask:

      Is it not double standards to have an article on your website saying you are standing up against prejudice by signing the Holocaust Memorial Day Book of Commitment yet you refuse to stand up against prejudice and vote in favour of equal marriage? Surely you are either standing up against prejudice or you are not.

      I’m not allowed to, or at least I won’t get a response, as I’m not a constituent.

  2. Misuse of anecdotal evidence is an informal fallacy and is sometimes referred to as the “person who” fallacy (“I know a person who…”; “I know of a case where…” etc. Compare with hasty generalization). Anecdotal evidence is not necessarily representative of a “typical” experience; in fact, human cognitive biases such as confirmation bias mean that exceptional or confirmatory anecdotes are much more likely to be remembered. Accurate determination of whether an anecdote is “typical” requires statistical evidence.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

    1. Or, possibly, he’s just talking bollocks

    2. Paula Thomas 23 Jan 2013, 11:15am

      Yeah but I suspect this is worse than that. I suspect this is deliberate cherry picking.

  3. Edmund Rodgers 23 Jan 2013, 10:57am

    It’s amazing how MPs like him claim to have had hundreds of letters opposing it but not one supporting it. My MP claims the same despite the fact that I have a written response from him to my letter urging him to support it. Besides, more hetrosexuals choose not to get married and live together. That’s no reason for refusing marroage to those that want to. Shame on him.

    1. I “tweeted” him about that, actually. Asking because some straights don’t want to get married if he supports heterosexual marriage.

      1. Well done, Ellie!

  4. So, the only reason he can come up with for denying us equality is that he doesn’t think we are equal. We call such people bigots.

    If a CP is good enough for us, it should be good enough for him.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 23 Jan 2013, 12:37pm

      What needs to be asked of these bigots is if they believe CPs are the same as marriage minus the name, why would they oppose straights having access to them, those who want something different to marriage and why would he choose not to have one? I can just hear the lame excuses. How would he feel if there were a demand to abolish marriage altogether and replace them with CPs for everyone? Imagine the hysterics. That would send him in to convulsions.

  5. *smacks head off wall*

    Civil Partnerships are not 100% equal to marriage.

    Bet he would not want a CP over a marriage would he?

    And I for one, refuse to believe that, given the area he is MP for, that those in favour (or those who have contacted him anyway) is in single figures. I would ask him to produce those as evidence of his claims, but we all know he would not be able to

    1. I dare say that he would cite “privacy” for the anonymous gay people who sent him the letters saying that they don’t want marriage. I think we can discount his responses as the dishonest posturing they so obviously are.

    2. Paula Thomas 23 Jan 2013, 11:29am

      That CP’s are not equal to marriage is something he knows given that the only time he’s supported a gay rights measure was CPs (He’s been an MP since 1997 and so has had a lot of opportunities)

    3. Some may not want to relate Marriage Equality to the Black Civil rights movement, however the parallels are too close for comfort, amongst conservatives.
      More especially the Doctrine of “Separate but Equal” which existed from 1895-7 Plessey v Ferguson decision, until it was completely debunked in the 1954 Brown v Board of Education decision. you may say it is not relevant, unfortunately it is. This is why they fallback on to the, we have Civil Partnerships position. It avoids the conservatives facing, in light of all evidence, that gayness is inherent, just as they wouldn’t accept a coloured person being equal to a white person, under the Doctrine above.

  6. Some gay people don’t want to get married. How shocking, given that ALL straight people want to get married. Oh, hang on. No they don’t. If a gay person doesn’t want to get married, then just like a straight person no one is going to hold a gun to their head and force them into marriage – or if they do, it will be against the law. Loughton is quite entitled to his belief that marriage is between an man and a woman. He is quite entitled not to marry a man.
    How convenient that he has received letters from gay people saying they don’t want to get married. How inconvenient for him that these gay people (if they exist) are no more entitled to deny other gay people their rights than religious bigots.
    Oh, and one more thing – it’s not “gay marriage”. What is being campaigned for is marriage EQUALITY. We already have a special, gay-only marriage in the form of civil partnership. Separate but equal is never equal. One size fits all in the law.

    1. Just what I wanted to say perfectly put. Thanks, David.

    2. Robert in S. Kensington 23 Jan 2013, 12:31pm

      He’s reading the C4M script. They were saying the same thing during the consultation. Straight people pretending to be gay. It’s so transparent what’s going on with Loughton and others of his ilk. Lying religious bigoted nutters.

  7. Washthatout. 23 Jan 2013, 11:11am

    The ranting voice in his head says no to equal marriage and tells him he is a good little christian for repeating it out loud. He is simply delusional, and a liar to boot.

  8. bobbleobble 23 Jan 2013, 11:16am

    Some gay people may have told you they don’t want to get married but does that mean you should prevent those of us who do from marrying too? Lots of straight people don’t want to marry, should marriage be withdrawn from all straight people as a result?

    ‘I’m a great supporter of civil partnerships’ roughly translates as let’s keep those gays in their place as second class citizens. No one’s fooled. And although he did vote in favour of civil partnerships he’s voted against pretty much every other gay rights issue since he was elected in 1997.

  9. Paula Thomas 23 Jan 2013, 11:18am

    I do find it interesting that this MP was being heavily briefed against by his former department in the Spectator recently.

    Hmmm. Bitterness much?

  10. Jock S. Trap 23 Jan 2013, 11:26am

    Idiot!! Of course if you believe marriage is between a man and a woman you ‘Believe’ gay people don’t want it.

    Fact is he never asked me and I’m guessing that he’s not asked anyone else on here for starters.

    His false claim that Civil Partnerships are equal is also deluded, the name isn’t equal, the recognition isn’t equal and there is still a major difference in equalities between the two.

    The most important inequality is that he himself would never have a Civil Partnership so why force them as unequal on just the LGTB community?

    It’s a selfish stand from someone who again, makes assumption not fact!

  11. …… and Tory MPs have told ME they are dumb, ignorant and stupid!!!!

    1. a simple statement of Fact!

  12. Cardinal Capone 23 Jan 2013, 11:31am

    “If you are so committed to gay rights, why are you opposed to legalising gay marriage?” the Conservative MP, who represents Worthing in West Sussex replied: “The two things are completely different issues.”

    This is untrue; most of the groups who are opposed to equal marriage are/were opposed to Civil Partnerships also. Some now claim to support them, or more accurately use them as a reason to deny equal status, when in other countries the same groups use their opposition to equal marriage as a reason to continue to criminalise gay people, using the slippery slope argument. This is happening right now in Singapore, with the Christian megachurches orchestrating a campaign to try and influence 2 constitutional court cases about the criminalising of gay people.

    People oppose gay marriage because they believe being gay is wrong, and that giving gay relationships equal status in law and society is wrong. This is not based in reason, but in prejudice.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 23 Jan 2013, 12:45pm

      I woudn’t mind betting that those ‘gay’ people telling him they oppose equal marriage are actually straight people pretending to be gay. That there may be some who are genuinely gay and opposed to equal marriage, a very small minority I think, I doubt if they would even bother to take the time to make their opinions known just as there are many gay supporters of equal marriage who haven’t bothered either.

  13. I know opposite-sex couples who don’t want to get married too : what’s his point?

  14. To be fair, it doesn’t seem like he’s being deliberately hateful. He just doesn’t seem to fully understand the implications of what gay marriage means and also of how the demographic of Tory supporters will influence the kind and number of letters that he’ll receive.

  15. Robert (Kettering) 23 Jan 2013, 11:33am

    This bigot should be more than aware that (a) religion DOES NOT own marriage and never has. And (B) no church or religious body is going to be forced to conduct SSM on their premises. It’s primarily about allowing CIVIL SSM, that’s all.

    He’s just another ignorant homophobic bigot hiding behind religion to deny us our basic human rights. Why should the LGBT community settle for second class when the rest of society sit in first class?

  16. One of the main reasons this legislation is needed is so that young lesbian and gay people grow up equal in dignity with others.

    It’s very disappointing that a politician charged with the welfare of children cannot see that.

  17. He’s a bigot. Who pretends he’s not, or doesn’t even know he is. The worse kind.

  18. Lying bigot. Yep that pretty much covers it.

  19. If he asked me before I came out and before I was married in a church I would have said I didn’t want it. If he asked me now, as a gay man I would tell him I don’t want it. However the reason for that would be I don’t feel the need to consolidate,validate and express my love within a faith and or a church of whatever persuasion. There are many people either side of the sexuality fence who do have a deep faith and want to express their love and devotion in such a way. So to me this is a no brainer, marriage should be allowed for whoever wants it, otherwise Orwell would be right…some people are more equal than others and the pigs are eating at the table. Democracy and equality for ALL in everything simple as!!

    1. the issue is civil marriage, however, so “faith” doesn’t even come into the equation.

  20. Really? Did us LGBT people have a referendum? Elect a spokesman? Are we the bloody Borg, possessing a hive mind?

    Another tory fool.

  21. You never talked to me Tim. Enough said.

  22. martyn notman 23 Jan 2013, 12:10pm

    …and lots of heterosexual friends of mine have said they dont want to get married too. Many of them have also said they dont like sprouts to me over the xmas period, ergo on this reasoning we should ban sprouts as some people dont like them.

  23. WordsmithNeil 23 Jan 2013, 12:16pm

    “It’s not about equality because civil partnerships already have all the rights given to married couples.”

    Quite simply not true.

    “I just think it’s a bit of a non-issue when you have got married couples with kids really feeling the pinch. ”

    WTF has this got to do with the argument?

  24. Robert in S. Kensington 23 Jan 2013, 12:28pm

    What have families feeling the pinch have to do with gays getting married I wonder? Is he on drugs or something?

    I don’t believe him for one minute. These bigots bang on about CPs having the rights of marriage but they never admit that they’re not equal or the same as marriage would they? Someone should ask him if he would be content with a CP if he were barred from marriage as a straight person. Walk in our shoes.

    How many gays wrote to him to say they don’t support marriage? I think he’s making it up. What’s to stop straight people pretending to be gay writing under false pretences, the same frauds who signed fhe C4M petition? Does he take us for fools? He’s the fool in all this.

  25. I wouldn’t believe anything he says.

    He said he was “enthusiastic supporter of civil partnerships” http://bit.ly/WmnKtR but DIDN’T vote for it http://bit.ly/WmnPxH

    “Tim Loughton MP, East Worthing and Shoreham did not vote.”

    I don’t believe any people who are gay have written to him. He’s a homophobe and why would you write to a known homophobic Tory MP to ask them to support something they never will. Loughton is old school and right-wing – why would anyone waste their time talking to a brick wall.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 23 Jan 2013, 12:40pm

      You ought to contact him, remind him of it. I’ve said this many times before, but CPs have suddenly become a very convenient weapon to thwart equal marriage, even though many of them really don’t even support any union for gay couples. They just want to make it seem as is they’re not homophobic similar to saying they have gay friends while opposing full equality.

      Now, where is Ben Summerskill? Why the prolonged silence amidst all of these outrageous claims and hateful rhetoric since the consultation concluded?

      1. He was interviewed on the Daily Politics just this week? Did you miss it?
        http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01q9t12/Daily_Politics_21_01_2013/

      2. GulliverUK 23 Jan 2013, 4:22pm

        I have – I told him he’s a homophobic bigot, and he was good enough to re-tweet me to his 8,000+ followers :D

        But I also gave him links to why he’s a liar when he says people who are gay don’t want to get married, and pointed out his abysmal voting record, as proof that it’s not just the marriage issue – he’s homophobic and voted against (or make himself absent) on all the legislation.

    2. Robert in S. Kensington 23 Jan 2013, 2:48pm

      GulliverUK, I urge you to send that link to him, remind him of his bigotry.

  26. That There Other David 23 Jan 2013, 12:37pm

    Tim Loughton? Where have I heard that name recently? Oh yeah…

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9820947/Michael-Gove-Ive-no-idea-which-of-my-staff-called-Tim-Loughton-a-lazy-incompetent-narcissist.html

    A lazy incompetent narcissist :-)

  27. What is this man and woman couples feeling the pinch have to do with gay marriage? Sometimes (most of the time) politicians say the most stupid stuff… Lordy me.

  28. BIGOT LIAR – We want Equality and that brings the ‘choice’ about Marriage – Like our Hetro counterparts – we want the right to choose whether to take part in this outdated, antiquated institution that ends in Divorce for 50% of couples –

    That’s what Equality means – you Tory twit!!

  29. Hammond is yet another god-diseased ridden bigot who has, as predicted, stepped up the rhetoric and disinformation prior to equal marriage becoming law.

  30. This issue is about EQUALITY – NOT about who wants to get married or not! We all know straight people who DON’T want to get married – but THEY have the RIGHT to get married while LGBT people do not!

    Also, people who claim that “civil partnerships” are “just as equal” to marriage are not only wrong but they are bigots. If they were the same, they would be called the same – but they still don’t want this. Why not? Because they MUST feel that their “marriage” is somehow “better” and “more special” than a mere civil partnership. This proves that this way of thinking IS bigotry!

  31. Funny that, quite a few straight people I know don’t have any wish or desire to marry……..but, if they change their mind…..

  32. Peter & Michael 23 Jan 2013, 1:25pm

    Does this man realise that we do not have all the rights of a marriage in a civil partnership, and representing Worthing where there is a very large population of LGBT people, they should start writing letters to him, just as we do, not just for ourselves but for all LGBT people.

  33. Spanner1960 23 Jan 2013, 2:06pm

    Well having seen the hundreds of comments on this subject on PN over the last year, I think there might have been a handful that were not keen, but they were by far in the minority.

    Even IF nobody wanted to get married, it still wouldn’t matter because it is about the principle of equality, it’s not some head count.

    Equality is either for everybody, or it isn’t; democracy doesn’t even come into the equation.

  34. the Government’s consultation – vast majority of LGBT people wanted a marriage over a CP.

    No discusssion needed. Anecdotal evidence: not welcome.

  35. What a tosspot! This is about ‘EQUALITY’ not whether a gay person wants to get ‘married’ or not. Let’s suppose there is legislation which outlaws chinless wonders from marrying (to prevent reproduction of more little Tories). Would HE be happy being discriminated against?

    1. Tim Chapman 23 Jan 2013, 4:45pm

      Careful, though, truth – you’re equating marriage with reproduction – there’s no need to be married in order to reproduce and there’s no requirement for married couples to reproduce. Let’s not use an argument that some try to use against us.

  36. Well I wrote to him a while back about this, stating I did want to be married and laying out my reasons. Perhaps if more people wrote to him he would have to stop using the “Gays don’t want it” argument. You can contact him at http://www.timloughton.com/gettingintouch/ or tweet him @timloughton

  37. Many straights don’t want to get married; perhaps we should make it all illegal?

  38. David Nottingham 23 Jan 2013, 4:19pm

    “I have also heard from a number of gay people telling me: ‘ We don’t want to go and get married.’….
    Of course you have Mr Loughton, but that’s not the point. There are millions of straight couples who don’t need marriage and don’t want to get married as well as gay couples. But the point here is that the straight couples at least have that option. The inequality is simple to see. Marriage rights are not equal, it has nothing to do with what individuals express what they do or what they don’t want.

  39. This is the last vestige of old white supremacy over the huddled masses.The good old Christain Boys Club holding court over the rights of everyone else in society.If they can hang on to MARRIAGE they can claim some sort of moral and ethical separation between them and the rest of the unwashed humanity outside their little stupid lives. A superiority of class. Thats all this fuss is about. they want to keep the classes in their place. God forbid some homosexual should have the same rights as me and my friends.Its bad enough we allowed the blacks to live amongst us and the women to have their say.And natives and other Riff Raff , but we will hold the line at MARRIAGE it is the last thing that separates us fom this filth. These are the thoughts that travel through the minds iof these sick perverted Conservative rightwing Christains . I for one will celebrate the day when they are pushed aside ,and their opinion matters no more than the wild rantings of some bigoted sidewalk evangelist.

    1. to me the only place to read their rotten stupid comments is to print toilet paper with their pix and comments on it.

      Religion – most of it is the curse of humanity and just like some parts of Islam are horrific, the only question is whether some xtians taught the islamics or vice versa

  40. This man represents Shoreham by Sea which is just about the most accepting and easy going town you could imagine – much more so than Brighton.
    Mr Loughton you are entitled to you opinion but you also need to open your eyes.

  41. ...Paddyswurds 23 Jan 2013, 5:46pm

    So! If only one gay person ever gets married or indeed none at all, that is no reason or excuse not to enact Marriage Equality .Period. The fact of inequality still exists and the numbers of Gay people availing of the right does not negate its necessity. Less and less Heretos are getting married nowadays but that does not mean the Right to marry should be scrapped.

  42. Oh dear, Loughton’s kind of argument against equal marriage is depressingly familiar. It was used to prevent women from being admitted to Oxbridge men’s colleges, and is still being used to prevent women from becoming members of, or even entering, certain men’s clubs. “They have their own colleges/clubs”, they said/say. “Why do they want to enter (ruin) ours?” It is the typical argument of a privileged group, be they a majority or a minority. “You should be content with what you have!”, they say – hopefully.

  43. Straight people have told me the EXACT same thing, so what’s your point?

  44. Who did this homophobic tory consult with, the vile, beast, uncle tom traitors christopher biggins or everett? As fot loughton, hope his kids grow up to be gay and hate him for his evil Homophobic hate against lgbt.

  45. Tom Cotner 24 Jan 2013, 3:31pm

    Marriage is something that should happen between two people who wish to be married. Whether they are gay or straight has absolutely nothing to do with it.
    Dickheads who continually try to confuse this issue should look at their own self-confusion.
    I have no desire to be married, and I am gay. That does not mean that I am opposed to it — on the contrary, should I wish to become married with a partner of my own choice, I’d like to have the freedom to do so.

  46. Tracy Stevens 25 Jan 2013, 7:58pm

    Well I’m gay and my partner and I are having a civil partnership but I’d like to actually be married to her, I pay the same tax as a straight person I pay the same fees for my civil partnership as a straight couple do for a wedding yet I am not legally married I think it takes the piss I’m not saying they have to do it in a church but hotels and other non religious venues it should be allowed as a marriage I’d like then end part of my service when I have it on the 6th July this to say I now pronounce you wife and wife not life partners

  47. My partner wrote to this MP to ask him to support Gay Marriage. His response was outrageous and beyond rude! His the MP for Shoreham by Sea …. 5 miles from Brighton…. One of the largest Gay Communties in the UK…. And he says he only received single digits in supporting Gay Marriage???????

  48. Maybe this phobe should concentrate on his own kind – the str8 people who are divorcing at in the USA at a 50% rate

    When these bad phobes have nothing else worth saying on the battle for equal marriage rights under law, they lap out the stains in the toilet and use them for arguments.

  49. Don Harrison 29 Jan 2013, 6:47pm

    Tim Loughton also I am gay, I do not want to marry you.

  50. Stephen Frost 6 Feb 2013, 12:36am

    Lots of straight people don’t want to get married. Going to ban it for them too?

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