And why should we care?
Quite right. Do they care about anyone without their views?
I don’t remember 1000 priests shouting about child abuse. Come to think of it I don’t remember 100 priests shouting about child abuse
We need to organise a similar campaign from the professions – i.e. 1000 GPs, 1000 lawyers, 1000 teachers etc support equal marriage.
If those Catholic priests want a War, lets give them one!
Jimmy Savile was a Catholic and he abused special needs youngsters, lets see how many of those Catholic priests knew Savile and allowed him to visit their special needs care homes?
It’s time to check these care homes for ‘up-to-date’ CRB checks.
…and Jamie Rennie , LGBT champion and ‘homophobia’ campaigner …what was he ?
Better not mention the worst child abuse case in British History ….might be ‘homophobic’ !
See the list of Catholic priests who have signed this letter at:
The self-aggrandising titles of these deluded irrational twats makes me both laugh and spit!
“Rt Rev Mgr Keith Newton – Ordinary, Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham”
He’s a man with dick, no better than any of us, who fantasizes and wanks like all other men but who has the nerve to have “the faithful” believe he doesn’t!
So say I, “The Right and Very Very Reverend Monsignor Eddy” !
The self-aggrandising titles of these deluded irrational morons makes me both laugh and spit!
He’s a man with d*ck, no better than any of us, who fantasizes and masturbates like all other men but who has the nerve to have “the faithful” believe he doesn’t!
I think maybe we should care and be pleased that the other 3,000 Catholic priests didn’t sign this letter, which looks quite promising….
They probably can’t write.
Hysterical ! Thanks to the Church, it’s Universities, Abbeys the Canon of Western Learning was retained in manuscripts , books and libraries .
‘Clerical’ might be a clue to the ignorant !
“Shout it from the roof tops” posted the following 15 hours ago and he/she is someone who seems to know things! Share this info!
I have seen the list – am surprised to see the following have signed it
Fr Paul Chavasse – he was linked to a young gay man – see:
Fr Patrick Greasley – he used computers in a primary school to view porn, see:
Fr Tim Hopkins – he is currently under police investigation for the sexual abuse of an 11 year old girl. See:
Fr Stephen Hardaker
Very Rev Fr Hugh Allan
Fr Michael Jones
Fr Mark Moran
Fr Alexander Redman
Fr Gerard Skinner
Fr Adrian Tomlinson
Fr Peter Vellacott
Fr Christopher Whitehouse
Fr Thomas Wood
UK laws permit contraception, abortion and divorce – all of which are vitriolically rejected by the catholic church. Do these civil rights “severely curtail the catholic church’s freedom to practise and speak publicly about their faith”?? No, of course not: The catholic church is perfectly free to preach against contraception, abortion and divorce – which is not even recognised. By the same logic, the catholic church could easily preach against and refuse to recognise same-sex unions… even if the state/uk also allowed for this.
Ie: UK laws create divorcees, whom the catholic religion refuses to recognise or re-marry. Logically, if the UK recognises same-sex marriage, then surely the catholic religion could easily treat these people like divorcees (by refusing to recognise them)?
The catholic stance should only be aimed at catholics, not everyone!! We live in a multicultural society that is governed by universal laws.. not a theocracy, governed by religion….
Love thy neighbour… I love my faithful catholic friends: their faith is personal to them and never seeks to influence nor coerce; By contrast, i have a diminishing respect for religion – which aim to influence and coerce (both individuals and government policy).
Faith is wonderful. As for religion… the jury is most definitely out.
Catholics are the ones who persecute people, going on for many many centuries. They are the ones who persecute others even today. Who do they think they are fooling?
In England, Catholicism, since 1558, has been the most persecuted minority in our history. More people have been killed for being Catholic than were for same-sex sex (which, by the way, was only made illegal under Protestantism — Henry VIII was the one who brought in the ‘Buggery Laws’.) Today, over 100,000 Catholics throughout the world are killed only for their faith — not in war or whatever, but solely for their beliefs. I have no idea how ‘they are the ones who persecute others even today’.
Prejudice against Catholicism has always been the one form of bigotry deemed ‘acceptable’.
“More people have been killed for being Catholic than were for same-sex sex”…..Catholics have a 2,000 year history of invading, conquering, killing, subjugating minorities and supporting tyrants and dictators who have done the same – including specifically providing official support for the ‘Kill the Gays’ bill in Uganda and generally contributing to the homophobic climate world-wide that has lead to persecution and murder of gays everywhere. Compare this murderous track-record going back two millennia with the track-record of gays going back to the beginning of history: exactly how many countries and peoples have gays have gays conquered and murdered in their bid to colonise and spread their ‘ideology’? By my calculation it comes to ‘none’. Rather than whingeing about persecution, you might instead remember your bible, specifically: Galatians VI: “Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap”
Actually the Buggery Act was passed in 1533 and the split from Rome didn’t occur until 1534 so Henry was still a Catholic at the time he passed the act, nice try at shifting the blame though. In any event Henry’s church was essentially the Catholic Church but with Henry at its head.
“Henry’s church was essentially the Catholic Church but with Henry at its head” – a good example of an oxymoron .
‘Henry’s church’ is not the Church founded by Christ on the rock of faith that was Peter – the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
Ha – and neither is the child-abusing, murderous Catholic Church, which Christ would have torn down from the ground up….
Actually you are just plain wrong. Read Bill Brysons book on Shakespeare and you will find that the only catholics killed by Elizabeth were those directly trying to overturn her rule. No one was killed purely for being catholic. It is a myth put about by catholics.
The mass murderers of the time were the catholics. The catholics who were persecuted if that is the correct word were those involved in politics.
Not far off what is happening now. They will get their fingers burned if they meddle in democratic politics. They are anti democracy, always have been. Its all in the smoke signals from the vatican.
catholicism is about politics and power so don’t moan when you threaten the status quo, your opponents will fight back. THAT IS NOT BIGOTRY, it is self defence.
Given the way they persecute others is it any wonder they are so reviled. I notice you failed by omission or design to point out that the RCC has engaged in rampant paedophilia for the last 15 centuries. Then there was the witch hunts and burnings and the grand daddy of them all: siding with the vile Naz1s. Oh and of course4 the Inquisition. It is a wonder the Vatican hasn’t been razed to the ground years ago. You and indeed they are a disgrace to humanity…..
Holocaust revisionism , Anti-Catholicism it’s all here ! The Nazi’s were at war with the Church – the Church was the only thing who stood up to the evil regime .As for witches – Catholic have never believed in them in the first place – the massive witch burnings happened during the reign of James I a protestant ….and the so-called witches put to death were mostly Catholics who had to worship in secret on pain of death.
Homosexuals with their self invented victim status have not got a clue of the persecution – Catholics were in the closet for hundreds of years quite literally !
“the Church was the only thing who stood up to the evil regime”
No, *this* is Holocaust revisionism, and a fairly extreme example of it. All kinds of individuals, organisations and movements stood up to the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe (most obviously the various resistance movements in occupied countries). The Catholic church’s response to National Socialism was rather mixed, and it is certain that they could have done a lot more to oppose it – for example, did they really *have* to sign an agreement with the Nazis in which Germany bishops agreed to swear allegiance to the German state?
Since you can apparently remember the persecution of Catholics hundreds of years ago, I assume you can also remember the persecution of Protestants by Catholics that led to Catholics being so despised in the UK for a couple of centuries? Knock off the persecutory delusion – it’s not as if LGBT people are big fans of your nemesis, the Church of England, either.
“Homosexuals with their self invented victim status”….it is not self-invented to be described as ‘objectively disordered’ and unfit to adopt children or get married to the people they love on the basis of innate characteristics. ‘Self-invented victim status’ certainly applies to a group of people whose programme of discrimination and persecution directed towards a natural minority suddenly gets challenged by their targets. ‘Dumb hypocrites ‘ would also seem to apply, especially when their programme of discrimination is based on a highly selective reading of a bunch of 2,000 year old fragments of texts written in dead languages repeatedly translated and distorted by a bunch of homophobic bigots….
..and the Inquisition …what’s you unique take on that, one wonders You seem so sure that the various pics of Pope Pius sucking up to Hitler and his cronies and shaking their hand. I suppose that was “photo shopped” by Goebels or Rommel. You are clutching at straws and yet still you ignore the Elephant in the room; the fact that the Roman Catholic Cult is the biggest paedophile club on Earth and the ex naz1 Joe Ratzinger is the arch enabler and protector. Hell will never be full until he takes his place beside Lucifer himself. Now go away and stop trying to revise well documented history. Don’t you have some Indulgences to sell or 11 year old rich boys to make bishops or even cardinals. Oh and while you are at it, enquire why the age of sexual consent for boys is 12 in Vatican City. Do they still castrate 11 year old choir boys at the Vatican, like they used to do?. You are defending the most evil organisation ever to pollute the Earth and in so doing you are despicable.
“Pius sucking up to Hitler and his cronies and shaking their hand” ….is fake. **
NO it wasn’t ! : .. just as Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli became Pius XII, the Jewish Veteran welcomed the breaking news with an editorial (April 1939 issue),entitled, “Hail Pope Pius XII!” :
“The anti-Semitic clique in the Fascist party, headed by Roberto Farinacci, was shocked by the election of Cardinal Pacelli by unanimous vote in the third ballot, as the new Pope. His election is however a source of great satisfaction to Jews. Pope Pius XII is known as a staunch friend of Jews and on several occasions expressed his strong opposition to the persecution of Jews in Germany and Italy. In accordance with his instructions, as Papal Secretary to the late Pope Pius XI, distinguished Jewish visitors to theVatican were served with kosher food. Known as a vigorous champion of the Vatican’s anti-Nazi policy, the anti-Semitic Fascists tried hard to prevent Cardinal Pacelli’s election. Their failure demonstrates the lack of influence of anti-Semites in the princes of the Catholic Church.”
What a total load of bollocks, there are more shirt lifters in the catholic church than the gay community on the streets.
Perhaps we should bring back the ducking stool and the village pond for witch craft too???
The more I see of this load of religious garbage the less I want to have anything to do with church, you can guess that my husband and I have some very heated debates in our C of E vicarage.
Someone send us a life extinction event, lets get rid of us all and solve the arguments as clearly we cannot get on agree, or aagree to disagree.
Which centuries would those be? The years of the Inquisition or the Hundred years war when Catholics tried to wipe out Protestants? How about during the Black Plague when Catholic preists ordered that cats be killed because they were the consorts of witches?
Maybe after centeries of dumb shite, they deserve a little persecution coming THIER way.
You obviously don’t know what the Hundred Years War was! Failure on that most glaring point only serves to highlight the weakness of your other rather eccentric example!
As for “they deserve a little persecution coming THEIR way” — this revealing sentence a) points to the fact that their letter had a very valid point, and b) that you don’t seem to realise that from 1558 until the 1680s thousands of Catholics were killed for their faith in the UK. Until the 19th century they couldn’t even work in professional jobs. Catholicism, despite the anti-Catholic propaganda, has been the most persecuted minority in English history.
They were not “killed for their faith” as you like to describe it, they were lawfully condemned for being terrorists, such as the members of the ‘Gunpowder Plot’ or being supporters of a foreign power that had made it mandatory for Catholics in England to support or participate in the murder of their sovereign. Don’t try to paint them as victims of injustice they were far from that. In times of brutality Catholics are up there with the worst of the brutes and always have been.
Thus speaks the homosexual Titus Oates !
Are you aware that at least five popes were homosexual and had lovers murdered as they finished with them and moved on to the next, in order to keep themselves firmly (not so successfully i seems) in the closet….
you been reading David Ike or dan Brown again ?
He may have gotten the Hundred Years War confused with the whole Huguenot thing which lasted more than 100 years and was often characterized by wars etc. and included such highlights as the St. Bartholomew’s Day massacre and Dragonnades. When Catholics held sway they were just as capable of oppression, both informal and institutional, intolerance and mass murder.
Thus proving that everyone in the past was an asshole.
Could not agree more to be fair… they do not know the meaning of the word persecution
If only 25% signed, doesn’t that mean that 75% are not worried about equal marriage, and the ones that did are just drama queens?
Once again we see the homophobes posing as victims.
Probably because the other 75% are gay, not ambitious, and want to keep their heads down!
Among the 75% one might assume some majority support and as for the priests who signed it, well….I wonder how many of them are paedophiles or who have protected paedophiles.
I’d like to see a backlash against the roman cult, primarily the hierarchy. It’s time some of our straight supporters started to make big noise about it.
What’s the betting Cameron or Maria Miller will proffer a deferential response instead of calling them out on the lies and fear mongering as well as pandering to bigotry. They’re all afraid to spell it out for them.
Where are the supportive denominations in all this and where on earth is Ben Summerskill?
No one expects the Gay Inquisition. RUN you perverse boyf*ckers! RUN!
…yeah the Gay Gestapo aka Stonewall condemned Cardinal O’Brien as ‘bigot of the Year’ for believing marriage is between one man and one woman !
Where was homophobia campaigner and ‘LGBT’ stalwart Jamie Rennie ?
O’Brien and all the other Catholic bigots don’t just believe ‘marriage IS between one man and one woman’, (which is factually wrong in any case because there are now constantly increasing number of countries and US states where equal marriage is legal), but they believe marriage ‘ought’ so to be, committing the Naturalistic Fallacy of trying to derive a prescription from a description. Just because something is the case doesn’t mean that it ought to be or to remain the case. Or do you believe all those child-abusing priests and their protectors in the Catholic hierarchy ought to be allowed to carry on with their vile practices because it’s what they’ve always done?….
I’ve not read a Catholic Bishop write anything like this :
‘The positive nature of some child-adult sexual relationships is not confined to non-Western cultures. Several of my friends – gay and straight, male and female – had sex with adults from the ages of NINE to 13. None feel they were abused. All say it was their conscious choice and gave them great JOY.
‘While it may be impossible to condone paedophilia, it is time society acknowledged the truth that not all sex involving children is unwanted, abusive and harmful.’
Peter Tatchell wrote the above – homosexuality hierarchy’s hero ! Wonder if he gave the names of the adults who had sex with children or was he protecting anyone – cover-up, secret Stonewall vaults with evidence ?
To the best of my knowledge , in the history of mankind , in no society has there been a homosexual ‘marriage’ .You’ll probably find some pagan Roman example – but mind you Caligula made his horse Incitatus a consul – say no to Equinophobia !
Peter Tachell was not advocating or justifying or excusing or hiding the rape of children and the betrayal of them and their parents. The Roman Catholic Church hid such child-rape by their priests, hid it from the world for decades if not centuries, and facilitated this child-rape by moving the child-raping Catholic clerics from parish to parish, then compounded the evil they committed by fighting tooth and nail to prevent the rape-victims from from coming forward and obtaining legal-redress and compensation. So far the Roman Catholic Church has paid out more than US$2.5 billion in compensation to their victims in the US alone….So your point about Peter Tatchell is?….As for your point about ‘history’, and gay marriages, you seem to be repeating yourself so I will: nothing that has happened in the past dictates what should happen in the present or future. The most successful of us can adapt according to changing circumstances. Those of us who can’t, die out…..Bye bye, dodo…….
The evil Sean Brady when he was a priest protected probably the most prolific paedophile priest and forced two 14 year old boys sign an oath of secrecy when the revealed their abuser to the catholic hierarchy. He is now Cardinal of all Ireland and is still protecting paedo priests…. The whole world knows what the Roman catholic church done to generations of Irish \children, both boys and girls as young as 5 year old … How many countries who were once rabidly catholic, threw out the papal nuncio and closed their embassy in the Vatican do you know?
If I were to express a belief that marriage should only be legally allowed between one non-Catholic and another non-Catholic, I suspect you would be the first to accuse me of anti-Catholic prejudice. If I compared, say, the College of Cardinals to the Gestapo, you would probably be foaming at the mouth with rage. Empathy is really useful if you want to get anywhere in life: you should try it!
Just proves that the Catholic Church is doing it’s best to remain in the Dark Age. Yet molesting young boys is Ok according to the church, but being Gay is not
“Yet molesting young boys is Ok according to the church, but being Gay is not”
Not wanting to spoil your argument with facts, but the reality is that a) molesting young boys is not OK according to the Church, and never has been, even if some priests have committed this heinous crime (sin); b) the Church actually proclaims that Christians have a duty to fight against ‘all unjust discrimination’ against homosexuals.
Well they didn’t do an awful lot to stop the molestation of young boys did they. It would appear that the current pontiff did a fair amount to cover it up too
Quote “Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered to an intrinsic moral evil, and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.”
“It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the church’s pastors wherever it occurs… The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in work, in action and in law”.
The Leader of the Catholic Church describes acts of homosexuality as “an intrinsic moral evil” which is the rotten core wrapped up with expressions of reasonablness both he and the princes of the Vatican state never actually practice themselves.
All the perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten those little catholic hands no matter how you try to wash off the stink of homophobia from them.
‘the Church actually proclaims that Christians have a duty to fight against ‘all unjust discrimination’ against homosexuals’
That sounds wonderful until you realise that the Church gets to decide on what counts as unjust discrimination rendering it a meaningless platitude.
Except that they have lobbied governments to exclude text condemning the summary execution of LGBT people from UN resolutions. If summary execution of a group of people is not “unjust discrimination”, then what is? The Catholic church talks about wanting to end discrimination against LGBT people, but then opposes all political efforts to do so.
Tell that to the evil bast*rd Cardinal Sean Brady Primate of all Ireland…… He bullied victims into signing a covenant of secrecy about their abuser who went on to defile over 500 boys and girls under ten. He kept shtum and didn’t even tell the victims parents.
Tell that to the evil b*st*rd Cardinal Sean Brady Primate of all Ireland…… He bullied victims into signing a covenant of secrecy about their abuser who went on to defile over 500 boys and girls under ten. He kept shtum and didn’t even tell the victims parents.
Tell that to the evil paedo protector Cardinal Sean Brady Primate of all Ireland…… He bullied victims into signing a covenant of secrecy about their abuser who went on to defile over 500 boys and girls under ten. He kept shtum and didn’t even tell the victims parents.
Tell that to the evil paedo protector Cardinal Sean Brady Primate of all Ireland…… He bullied victims into signing a covenant of secrecy about their abuser who went on to defile over 500 boys and girls under ten. He kept quiet and didn’t even tell the victims parents.
Tell that to the evil paedo protector Sean Brady Primate of all Ireland…… He bullied victims into signing a covenant of secrecy about their abuser who went on to defile over 500 boys and girls under ten. He kept quiet and didn’t even tell the victims parents.
I assume the repetition is accidental, but I think it deserves repeating that a man who allowed such thngs to happen has been rewarded with high position and honour. No wonder catholicism is failing in Ireland.
(I’m not Irish, but my work takes me to Dublin and Galway at least once a month and I have come to know the country and people well.)
a) They protect the child molesters
b) By do they not fight against all unjust discrimination then or is it just they do not think it is unjust.
…yes tell that to Jamie Rennie , ‘homophobia’ campaigner and LGBT stalwart .Worst abuse case in British history .
You seem to relish making references to a paedophile who was convicted back in 2009, who you refer to as a ‘homophobia campaigner and LGBT stalwart’ as thought this has some significance…or are you trying to suggest – with the inimitable ‘logic’ of so many with religious faith – that because a paedophile ‘was a ‘homophobia campaigner and LGBT stalwart’, anyone who is the latter must also be the former? Just as, since Hitler was a vegetarian, anyone who is a vegetarian is genocidal mass-murderer?…Incidentally, I believe the honour of ‘worst abuse case in British history’ now goes to the decidedly heterosexual Jimmy Savile….do try to keep up….
‘anyone who is the latter must also be the former’
No I’m not , not all homosexuals like Rennie are interested in children , just as not all priests are child abusers as the Pink lynch mob likes to pretend .
‘heterosexual Jimmy Savile’ – he also abused a young boy , does that make him a ‘bi’ abuser ?.The homosexual lobby like to label themselves and others ‘straight/hetrosexual’ ,’bi’, ‘trans’ or ‘gay’ – I’m afraid I disagree the Chief Executive of Stonewall Youth Project Scotland (LGBT Youth Scotland) Jamie Rennie who raped a baby boy (18 months) with his ‘boy friend’ as he filmed it (later sending it to other perverts) surpasses Saville by far .Rennie and Saville are both sick individuals .
You seem so obsessed with perversion i’m wondering if you’re part of some paedo ring and love watching that stuff.
There seems to be a consensus about Savile of which you’re either ignorant or simply defy for your own personal reasons eg.: http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2013/01/11/jimmy-savile-targeted-hospice-patients/.
But why you keep referring to Rennie remains a mystery: what’s your point? He was a criminal because he abused children, not because of the gender of the children. Or, in line with Catholic doctrine, do you think little girls are less important than little boys, so somehow in your warped universe boy-rapists are worse than girl rapists?…
Nobody has ever claimed that LGBT are perfect. You’ve found one rare example of a bad apple and keep going on about it, Ray. I question whether James Rennie IS the worst abuser in British history. Not if everything said about Savile is true, anyway. But quoting one example against the hundreds of paid members of the Catholic heirarchy who have been protected by their organisation is pathetic.
“There’s no doubt that the thousands of cases which have come to the attention of the justice system represent only a small fraction of the true total, given that many molesters have been covered and hidden by the hierarchy.” – Joseph Goebbels
You would agree with this chap then ?
It’s nothing new, first the Nazis now it’s the Liberal Elite and their conspiracy theories !
Are you trying to suggest that the paedo priests have been somehow invented to blacken the Catholic Church? Now you sound like you’ve been reading Dan Brown.
Personally, I am not familiar with quotes from the likes of Goebbels. He’s not the sort of person I would choose to read. Strange that you can quote him so easily.
‘History is repeating only two times: first time as tragedy, second – as comedy’. England as Catholic Kingdom, where innocent priests are persecuted by bad gays? Sound like low budget comedy for some viewers in Uganda, Nigeria or Jamaica.
“England as Catholic Kingdom” — ???
Maybe you weren’t around when the Queen swore an oath before God, the peers, and her people, to “preserve and protect the Protestant religion”?
Well … exactly, you absolutely right; Catholics are aliens, not integral part of English-British identity (at least in the historical perspective). But, as has say Prince Philip in his speech 1997 about his marriage with the Quenn: ‘tolerance is all ways very important’.
“Catholics are aliens, not integral part of English-British identity”
This used to be a Catholic country (for about 1500 years) before a King decided he wanted to distort marriage and set up his own church .It was the Catholic Church which founded the first Universities, offered help to the poor , fed the hungry , built hospitals , brought learning , agriculture etc etc (We are still doing the same around the world ) .We’d all be living in mud huts if it was not for the Church .
Well, same thing has did ancient Romans in Italy for hundreds of years. But is Nero or Kaligula now integral part of Italian state and national identity? Rather not. Modern Catholic community in the UK is founded by the movement of Catholic emancipation in the 19 century, without natural roots in the medieval culture of monasteries or Cathedrals – they are lost for ever, as tradition of Catholic English monarchy too (in Germany or France, for example, this still is important inspiration for current Catholic community). You even not have very prestigious Catholic University here (good!) Church has ‘help to the poor, built hospitals’ etc.? Church has did this as demonstration of power and social control. All rulers in the history has did similar things. Who can control human body (hospitals), his needs (agriculture) and his mind (schools), control all. Until now, somewhere. Why political elite of Italy or Poland (even atheists) fear oppose Church? There you have answer.
“We’d all be living in mud huts if it was not for the Church .”…sure, and a lot of people living in mud huts now might be living in palaces if it wasn’t for the church ‘bringing Christianity’ to them…..South American civilizations such as the Incas and Aztecs had cities and economies that made Europe look squalid until the Spaniards arrived with their religion to rape them of all their wealth and kill them with disease…Just because an organisation is particularly good at genocide and war doesn’t mean that the world wouldn’t have been better off with alternatives….Even now Catholic doctrine kills millions of people by preaching against the use of condoms, forbidding abortion even to save the life of a mother when the child is dead and condoning the killing of homosexuals such as in Uganda…
Congo 70% Catholic HIV infection rate 4%
Uganda 45% Catholic HIV infection rate 10%
South Africa 5% Catholic HIV infection rate 38%
Botswana 5% Catholic HIV infection rate 40%
info from WHO . …says it all MarkN :) How did the HIV/Aids explosion happen again in San Francisco …saunas, homosexuality, depravity, drug taking – you’ll be blaming Catholics for this too .The Nazis believed the Jews spread disease and the homosexual lobby blame the Pope and Catholics – nothing changes !
Pope Paul III (1537) condemned slavery in the New World, saying, “the Indians and all other peoples … who shall hereafter come to the attention of Christians … are not to be deprived of their liberty and their possessions.”Pope Gregory XVI (1839) stipulated that no one should “dare to bother unjustly, despoil of their possessions, or enslave Indians, Blacks, or other such peoples.”
But did the Spanish/Portuguese Conquistadors listen ? -NO. Just as today so-called modern Spain has abortion and pseudo same-sex marriage .As for the Aztecs being more advanced than Western Civilization , you must be having a laugh !- this was a society in which one child out of four was ritually murdered to the Sun …mind you in USA one child in the womb out of four is murdered in the name of the god ‘choice’ so nothing has changed (in UK we have murdered more than 7 million children in the womb) .
In different times Catholic mafia has different ‘Jews’ (this from Israel, Catares, witches, Lutherans, French Libertines and Enciklopedists, atheists, Marxists, Socialists, Communists, ‘liberal intellectuals’, ‘liberal media’ etc.). With all this social and religious groups Church has make already peace (or they not more exist), except only one. This big ‘honor’ until now have we, gay people, especially gay men (or ‘Sodomites’, if you have so strong preferences for medieval culture). Is secret hope of the Church, that one beautiful day we will not more exist as a community or even individuals – as Catares? Well, I suspect, without new Homocaust things will not change, not at all, Mr. Joseph Natzinger. Pope Paul III has written this and this about slavery? And? Was Pope at this time not an true Roman Emperor, has he no power, just words? Catholic Church was all ways brilliant have in his mind, speak and do three different things at the same time. Old traditions of PR, you know…
You say that gay people are ‘blaming’ Catholics about HIV – and in the same time, in your own words do exactly same thing, blaming our ‘saunas’ and ‘depravity’ on this? Translation: ‘its only our own fault’. Oh yes, we know, we heard this since childhood, and every time, when, for example, some gay teen commits suicide. Thanks. And read, please, more books about medieval culture, especially male monasteries. ‘Saunas, homosexuality, depravity, drug taking’. ‘Nil novi sub sole’, I am right?
How ridiculous. As if we’re going to start hanging priests and their supporters for saying Masses. Persecution! As if.
It’ll be imprisonment first, being put in jail and losing your job just for believing that marriage should be something that reflects the fact that natural conception requires a man and a woman and that marriage is the best setting for the conception and upbringing of children… I have to say, such a situation sounds completely Orwellian to me.
As for hanging (drawing and quartering) priests and people just for their Catholic faith, the UK has quite a record on that front; and if they weren’t hanged, they were either imprisoned or fined to the point of bankruptcy.
I have to say it sounds completely paranoid to me, but then subscription to a set of irrational beliefs that include eternal damnation for transgressions against the “faith” also sounds like madness too. The Catholics have quite a history in England of hanging, burning and torturing anyone who crossed them, take a look at Thomas Moore in Henry VIII’s time for an example of that. This is the 21st Century try to show some dignity and not be dragged kicking and screaming into it.
Absolute nonsense, as is the letter.
If there was any substance in it then this persecution would have been triggered by the state sanctioning divorce, which is against catholic teaching. No problems with the divorce laws so no problem with the equal marriage laws.
This is simply some priests throwing a tantrum because the rest of us won’t play to their rules
That’s quite a little paranoia complex you’ve got going on there. Presumably of course you can point to examples of this happening in the other jurisdictions that have legalised gay marriage? No? Then why is it going to happen here? You can scaremonger as much as you like but I thought bearing false witness was a big no no.
Protestants in this country didn’t exactly have a rosy time either. She wasn’t called Bloody Mary for nothing and Elizabeth put to death an awful lot of extremist protestants too. Plus Catholics had a tendency to plot treason when they got into positions of power so a mistrust wasn’t entirely misplaced. In any event any Catholic persecution was at the hands of fellow Christians so perhaps you should be angry at Anglicans, not gay people.
Also perhaps we should ask the Cathars or the Huguenots about Catholic tolerance?
‘Plus Catholics had a tendency to plot treason when they got into positions of power so a mistrust wasn’t entirely misplaced’
…so says Titus Oates ! Your absurd prejudiced statement would have sounded just as bigoted if you had said :
“Plus Jews had a tendency to plot treason when they got into positions of power so a mistrust wasn’t entirely misplaced.”
Oh, don’t be ridiculous. Nobody is going to jail unless they break the law. They may well lose their jobs if they break the terms of their contract. Registrars who refuse to do their job as a registrar, for example, as we’ve seen recently.
By the way, you really need to read Orwell before going on about things being Orwellian.
And I am well aware that priests were hung, drawn and quartered in the Reformation times. I didn’t think it was relevant since we don’t have a death penalty in this country and certainly not for people who want to cling to outmoded religious beliefs in the face of all good sense.
What a load of utter bullshit. Plenty of studies have shown the large percentages of Catholic priests (and Bishops) who are closet gays. So what a lot of utter rubbish is this letter. Have they been forced to write it by Pope Vicious 16th?
Lots of gay men, closeted or not, priests or laity, religious or atheists, actually believe that marriage, in its fullest sense, is something NOT so much about a couple, but about family — and the fact that, in nature, human beings procreate best when a man and a woman are involved. Over the past year or so, lots of openly (non-Catholic) gay men in the public eye have voiced the opinion that they do not either a) believe in marriage or b) don’t believe in radically redefining it.
Evidence please, a link to the articles where they did this would suffice. Or just a list of names. I can think of one, Rupert Everett, who would sell his mother to get some publicity…..
Seven out of 10 divorces in 2010 involved couples who were both in their first marriage – the rest had at least one partner who had been previously divorced or widowed.
Yes it’s all about “family” isn’t it. Well, family as defined by you and other subscribers to the dogma of your particular taste in organised irrationality otherwise known as the roman catholic church. However, family means different things to many different people and your definition of family is just one of many. The theatre of the world is much bigger than the little stage of the Vatican and more and more people think the play being performed on it stinks.
Persecution? I think these dreadful misguided priests don’t realise the exact nature of the persecution that their hideous organisation has inflicted on millions over the centuries! Will the last person in the Vatican please turn off the light!
These priests should think about the hundreds of years of persecution that they inflicted on the Europeans, through their insane inquisition. How many gay people did they torture and burn as “faggots”? I believe that the church is on its last legs. And good riddance.
I don’t know if this is what you are referring to, but the idea that “faggot” meaning “gay man” originated from burning at the stake is a myth. Gay people were sometimes burned at the stake, and the word “faggot” was frequently used in reference to burning at the stake, but gay people weren’t described as “faggots” until the 20th century. This appears to have come from an older usage of the word, meaning “old woman”, which might have come about because old women were seen as irritating baggage (like a bundle of wood), or because collecting firewood was often a task that fell to old women.
This is good time for Latin “Roman Catholic” Clergy to think about how pagans and gays have felt for many decades. Gays and pagans have been persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church, imprisobed, torchured and executed in the name of the god of the Roman Catholic Church. May the real God have mercy on you Roman Catholics.
Oscar Wilde (so-called ‘gay’ icon) welcomed into the Church with open arms.Former occultist G.K.Chesterton welcomed into the Church with open arms.Former pagan Cecilia[later St.Cecilia] (along with countless other pagans) welcomed into the Church with open arms.
You must have a soft spot for ‘gays’ and pagans .Thankfully Christendom swept away the pagan world : abortion, infanticide, divination, homosexuality, incest – etc etc Hey, but the old Culture of Death seems to be quite fashionable today with the political elites , thankfully the One True Faith is the voice speaking the Truth , and offering Hope . :)
Blatant lies. Histerical panic mongering.
Has the Catholic cHurch no integrity at all?
You know what could really “threaten religious freedom in a way last seen during ‘centuries of persecution’ of Catholics in Britain?” What could provoke a mighty backlash against the Catholic church?
One, the Church trying to impose its rules on society as a whole through legislation and taxpayer-supported services.
Two, the church insisting that it is exempt from the rule of law, especially in relation to child abuse committed by priests and covered up by bishops, cardinals and the Vatican.
Has the Catholic church no integrity at all?
You have to ask? :-)
“Has the Catholic cHurch no integrity at all?”
Don’t be silly…
The very people who have been directly responsible for the persecution and victimisation of homosexuals are now making the disingenuous claim that because their privilege to torment and persecute gays is now being curtailed they themselves are being persecuted and victimised. It’s a complete lie that turns reality on it’s head, these entirely self-interested Catholic priests have shown that they have zero moral integrity and that they are complete cowards.
Centuries of persecution!!! For heaven’s sake, gay people have had 2000 years of it! GIve us a break.
“…gay people have had 2000 years of it!” When? Where?
Seeing that the Church has been persecuted since her inception 2000 years ago – the first martyr being killed soon after Christ, and thousands being killed around the world today, whilst in English history Catholicism has been our most persecuted minority — surely you mean that Christians have been persecuted for that amount of time?
Instead of continuing to drip your baseless paranoia around, I suggest you consolidate your efforts on responding to your critics and providing some facts and rational argument. Thus far you have simply succeeded in reinforcing the stereotype of irrational paranoia exemplified by the report.
You’ve managed to find your way here so it will be of little effort for you to find answers to the history of persecution of gays, should you allow yourself that degree of intellectual honesty. In my view you are simply being disingenuous to suggest you have no familiarity with that history.
Unlike Catholics, gays have no history of industrialised torture and killing of those they take a dislike to, nor have they banded together to accumulate great wealth and power to further their ambitions of social control and further oppression of dissenting views.
If Catholics are to be called to account for paedophilia, anti-democratic behaviour and the like, then I’m fully in favour.
“If Catholics are to be called to account for paedophilia”
Paedophilia is against Catholic teaching and has been condemned by the Pope as ‘filth’ which has infiltrated the Church.The small minority of priests who did sexually abuse , mostly abused young men and not children – making it a homosexual problem.One of the earliest Church texts The Didache condemns homosexuality, incest, abortion ,infanticide transvestism, sex with children etc – all banned when The Church destroyed the Roman pagan world and began building Western Civilization.
In the 1970′s the Gay Liberation Front was allied to groups like PIE (Paedophile Information Exchange)and PAL (Paedophile Action for Liberation) all supported by National Council for Civil Liberties.Recently Peter Tatchell wrote that ‘it is time society acknowledged the truth that not all sex involving children is unwanted, abusive and harmful’ – I’m sure if Jimmy Saville had written that we’d be reading about it this week !
“Paedophilia is against Catholic teaching and has been condemned by the Pope as ‘filth’ which has infiltrated the Church” – sure he condemned it – after it cost him $2.5bn (and rising) in compensation. But until he had no choice, he spent a huge amount of time and effort in suppressing the truth of what had been happening for decades. As for it being a ‘homosexual problem’, you don’t get screwed for $2.5bn because your priest-rapists are homosexual, you get screwed because they raped under-age kids (of whatever age) or had sex with adults without their consent.The gender of each party is irrelevant, the abuse of power and trust not. Also, ‘a small minority of priests’ goes a long way when, instead of being exposed and brought to justice, they are furtively shuffled off to another parish to continue their abuse. Again, and again, and again….This was not a ‘homosexual problem’. This was a ‘corrupt, wholly self-interested Catholic hierarchy problem’ …
‘This was a ‘corrupt, wholly self-interested Catholic hierarchy problem’ …sounds like Goebbels to me .
‘There are cases of sexual abuse that come to light every day against a large number of members of the Catholic clergy. Unfortunately it’s not a matter of INDIVIDUAL CASES, but a collective moral crisis that perhaps the cultural history of humanity has never before known with such a frightening and disconcerting dimension.’- Dr Goebbels
I suppose the difference between the Nazis and numerous courts of justice in democratic countries around the world that have successfully prosecuted the the Catholic church over child abuse, is that the Catholic Church has been found guilty by numerous courts of justice in democratic countries around the world, and fined over $2.5bn for their crimes. The Nazis demonized gays & other minorities to justify persecuting them, who kept as quiet as they could for safety. Compare this with the Pope and his cardinals publicly denouncing gays as ‘objectively disordered’ and inciting children in schools to sign online petitions against equality legislation. This is not the behaviour of a persecuted minority, but of a bunch of desperate bullies who’ve run out of arguments.
“Pope and his cardinals publicly denouncing gays as ‘objectively disordered’ ”
You are going into the realms of fantasy – it’s homosexual acts which are objectively disordered not the inclination .Philosophy seems beyond many people on here .
You again. Why do you keep on peddling the same boring arguments. Give it a rest.
Yeah, because teaching that gay couples can get married and it’s all pretty much the same as when opposite sex couples marry will become such a source of oppression.
It’s strange how they can get away with saying the stuff they must say at the moment, if it were about race there would certainly be consequences. Goes to show the slightly more subtle forms of homophobia are still pretty much acceptable, especially if packaged as a “belief”. And yet if I say there’s a flying spaghetti monster, whose noodly appendages prevent us from floating away into space, people just stare. But if I have – faith – what division is there between my belief and a belief in Catholicism? Faith overcomes all other evidence and most of it’s unprovable anyway.
Religious shouldn’t have any place in schools in the first place, especially at the younger ages it’s basically equivalent to brain washing. And yet a requirement not to teach anything inappropriate to a child’s age is talked about.
It would threaten religious freedom? Do they mean giving religious bodies the freedom to conduct SSM if they want to? That would enhance religious freedom surely?
Is there nothing these characters wouldn’t say or do on orders from the vatican?
Oh, look! The Vatican’s publicity department (AKA, the BBC) has posted yet another front page, unbalanced article:
What a surprise!
I can only assume that “BBC” stands for Bible-Based… C… hmm, now what could the C stand for?
When tackled, the BBC will say “When the Catholic Church’s POV is important because they run so many schools” which that the gibberish reply I received last time I complained. This time, no complaint: I can’t be bothered.
Here is the crap reply I got to my complaint:
Thank you for your email of 29 December.
The Christmas message from the Archbishop of Westminster felt like a suitable lead story on Christmas Day. The disagreement between the Catholic Church, the Church of England and the Church in Wales over the government’s proposals meant the story was very topical and, as our correspondent Robert Pigott said, the archbishop has rarely spoken with such emotion. All those factors made it a suitable lead.
As this is a report of the Archbishop’s Christmas message, we would not usually seek other voices to include.
However, on a long-running topic such as this we have carried many pieces giving alternative views to this debate including:
Thank you again for contacting us.
Not dissimilar to the twaddle I was given except mine was a phoned reply… and they quoted “as balance” and article by the head of the Church in Wales. When I pointed out that is was an *anti* equal marriage article, there was a long pause.
Me: Read it.
BBC: Well, er, hmm. He’s Welsh.
BBC: Well, it’s a Welsh perspective.
Me: So I see. How does that balance the argument.
BBC: Because he’s Welsh.
Me: (gritted teeth) But he’s still anti-SSM
BBC: Well, technically…
Me: Can you point me to any pro-SSM article this week?
BBC: Can I get back to you?
I live in South Wales and still have to pay the BBC in London its license fee.
I received the exact same reply.
The BBC is also infested with catholic scum.
‘The BBC is also infested with jewish scum’
‘jewish’ , ‘catholic’ ,’gay’ , ‘muslim’ – put any of the above in the sentence ^ and you have a bigoted statement from a not very tolerant person .
All utterly irrelevant. Catholics will be able to believe what they choose to believe, as will anyone else. They are worried because it could interfere with their indoctrination attempts – and I don’t believe that indoctrination is a right. As a matter of personal conscience, they have nothing to worry about. It may affect their recruitment and ability to brainwash – there’s nowhere to hide if all are held to the same principles – but that’s not our problem, it’s theirs.
And it goes without saying that every religious community should be held to the same standard, whether in a RC or Anglican Church, Jewish temple or Islamic mosque.
The church and its members should be free to have whatever beliefs they wish and they should be free to express those beliefs so more rational people can expose them for the bilge they are. The moment they start attempting to force those beliefs on others, as they are currently doing by trying to affect the law, then the law should swiftly stomp on them. They can call that persecution if they like, but isn’t that ‘redefining’ the term, something they object to in other cases? In the USA, the Mormons decided their teachings on black people had been mininterpreted when they realised the law would cause them problems. Perhaps here too, the church will change its mind, as it has always done, when everyone else has moved forward and abandoned ancient nonsense.
Once this cult has exhausted minorities to vilify, its congregants may just start looking inward and see it for the steaming pile of bull-cr@p that it is.
Perhaps this is why these snake oil salesmen are running scared.
Feed them to the loins!
For centuries they have burnt women as witches, with homosexuals at the bottom of the piles (as the “faggots”).
Tortured and killed people with their “inquisition.
Stolen money from believers and built an empire on excess – still seen with the wealth in the Vatican.
Now still advocate people to be killed by HIV and AIDS by refusing to allow condoms use.
Aide and abide paedophiles in their organisation.
Actively seeking to keep on discriminating sections of society (homosexuals and women)and perpetuating the culture of hate crimes against them.
Need I go on????
sorry — LIONS (not loins, although …)
What else can you expect, Their Boss is the Pope who makes his thoughts known when ever he can, even in the church, people (priest included) can be terminated. The church is by all design a business and as such has the highest rate rate of “employee’s”
abusing our youth, And this is you we listen to!!
I am all for freedom of expression, but I guess with the Roman Catholic Church, like Islam, you give them an inch and they want a mile. So all or some restriction on the Catholic Church is a good thing! Thank god for the Reformation! Thank god for Henry VIII and Elizabeth I! All the RC Church wants is more power. Their power and influence has been waning in most of Europe, Australia, the USA, Canada and South America. That’s a good thing for all of humanity! I’m proud to have left this evil Church!
The priests are always trying to paint a picture of themselves as victims. This is what bullies do.
These guys don’t have enough to do. They sit around writing hysterical letters based on delusional thoughts.
Its time to just ignore them as they are weak feeble men whose real mission in life is to try and spread division, hate and fear.
The ‘religious freedom’ Catholics are talking about is nothing more than the freedom to preach and teach that a minority of the population is inferior to the rest of the population, and does not deserve the same basic human rights and should be discriminated against. Specifically they are talking about the right to teach this doctrine to children – some of whom will be members of the minority in question, who will therefore feel threatened and fearful, with damaged self-esteem. Put like this, the question should not be whether or not Catholics should continue to have the right to preach discrimination against a section of the population, including children, but why they’ve ever had the right in the first place.
“Specifically they are talking about the right to teach this doctrine to children”
And use taxpayers’ money (including yours and mine) to do so.
Why isn’t Pink News taking on the BBC’s biased coverage of this issue? One commentary from which PN distanced themselves hardly counts. Why isn’t PN questioning the BBC? Why aren’t they publishing weekly reports on the balance or lack thereof in BBC coverage?
More significantly, why hasn’t StonewallUK gone after the BBC? Not a word from Summerskill in months.
So, there we have it, the truth is finally out! Their opposition is nothing to do with the bible, forget what god said, morals are out the window and the collapse of society be damned….it’s all about their fear of losing power!!!!
Unfortunately for them they are losing it all by themselves, no help from us required.
Curses. I hit “report” on my tablet instead of “thumbs up”. There doesn’t seem to be a way to retract it. My apologies.
How desperate are these bitches getting!?! The roman catholic church has a history of oppressing a variety of people , and it seems gays are the only ones left. And as for persecution, bring it on , they’re doing everything they can to dehumanise us, time to turn those tables.
Or like they did for years during the Spanish Inquisition?…..idiots
And of course Catholic Priests know all about persecuting people:- preferably male and as fresh from the womb the better…
They don’t seem to have a problem persecuting women – barring them from jobs, denying them access to lifesaving medical care and medical technology that protects against disease, permitting women control over their own bodies. They have quite a track record past and present.
Absolutely spot on David, but I was referring to those they predominantly persecute/abuse physically, mentally and sexually.
Of course little girls in the Catholic Church have enough to deal with with vicious and sexually voracious nuns.
The only jobs not open to catholics will be jobs they refuse to do.
Yet there are plenty of schools where children are barred if they AREN’T Catholics. Talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it.
There are around 4000 priests in the UK. Only 25% signed. Presumably they all had the opportunity….
I agree – perhaps the headline should have read ‘Only a thousand priests’ etc….
Not being able to oppress others does not constitute oppression. They just don’t seem to get that. The problem is not one of persecution, but one of privilege. They feel they should have the right to say and do whatever they please regardless of how it harms others. A white supremacist is perfectly within their rights to believe that white people are superior to non-white and to be against “inter racial” marriage. They are quite within their rights not to marry someone they consider non-white and are quite permitted to say, if they wish, that inter racial marriage isn’t what they consider to be “true” marriage. What they aren’t entitled to do is force other people to live by their narrow minded, misguided and bigoted creed. Same for Catholics.
All brilliant comments but has anyone bothered to write to the ‘Torygraph’?
A report in The Tablet said that half of all priests in England and Wales are over 70 years old and predicts that in 10 years time the under 70s will be less than 1600.
In a nice metaphor for this, I read some years ago about DDT in migrating birds. Prior to departing the birds would consume large quantities of insects with small amounts of DDT which would accumulate in their fat tissues in sub-lethal concentrations. Then they would set off and slowly use up the fat reserves. As the DDT would not be broken down its concentration would slowly rise until at some point it became lethal and the bird would drop dead out of the sky.
We are already seeing the consequences of a shrinking pool of Catholic clergy increasingly dominated by anti-gay bigots and this will only get worse as ambitious clerics see they have to adopt homophobic rhetoric to gain promotion – and the moderates are silenced by embarrassment and leave.
How long until the church drops out of the sky?
True most of the seminaries have closed down, and those that do put themselves forward are odd – they are having to import priests from developing countries to keep the outfit going, as no decent parent would encourage their son to put themselves forward for priesthood.
I want to see the signatories – as I know a number of catholic priests to be gay, and if they have signed it then they deserve to be publicly outed. Enough is enough, how a gay man can remain in the priesthood when its hierarchy are perscuting gay men and women staggers belief.
Such nonsense! What they’re saying is that their rights to infiltrate their bigotry into mainstream society are being limited and they don’t like it. Scumbags! Ignore them.
“ARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH, THE TOLERENCE, IT BURRRRRRRNS, IT BURRRRRRRNS… please, don’t make us accept another minority another minority as equal, it causes us physical pain, help, help, we’re being oppressed”.
The Catholic response would be comical if it wasn’t so prevelant.
I’d like to say “Nobody expects the Gay Inquisition, amongst our chief weapons are surprise, fear and a fanatical devotion to each other! …Fetch the equal marriage bill”
Maybe we should publish a letter in every national newspaper condemning the catholic Church for what it is??? and all sign it??
This article is so true. I don’t know about the rest of you but when I convert my civil partnership to a marriage I’m going to celebrate by beating up some catholics.
Please dont take that seriously as no one in this country would ever think of doing that. During religious troubles this article mentions catholics were tortured and executed. By saying not being able to spread hate is equal to the historic strife of catholics in this country they belittle their own history and prove their own ignorance. Again.
I wonder how many of them have Irish or Polish sounding names.
‘I wonder how many of them have jewish sounding names’
you would be saying a few years ago….circa 1935 Germany
“Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.”
Nobody has a problem with people being Catholics.
Just keep it to your f\/cking selves.
Well said, Dave. Yes, if they want to believe in the stuff of fantasy and fairy tales, then by all means let them do so, but let them keep it within the confines of their homes and any buildings they may own in common.
Or as Tony Blair said, “tolerance is part of what makes Britain Britain. So conform to it, or don’t come here.” That applies to a lot of people, not just catholic priests.
I’ve been adding a few thumbs ups to comments and the count is increasing by 3, 4 or 5 votes each time. Seriously. This gives a false sense of great influence which oddly enough is how the signatories of the letter must feel.
“They also said that they feared that Christians who believe in marriage in a “traditional” sense would be excluded from some jobs, in the same way that Catholics were from the Reformation until the 19th Century.” – Have you heard of homophobia?! Because your watered down spirituality causes quite a lot causing them to be denied jobs, fired from jobs and sometimes beaten from the sick effect organized religion has on society.
“After centuries of persecution, Catholics have, in recent times, been able to be members of the professions and participate fully in the life of this country.”
- Which century was that? No…really, go ahead, tell us what century that was. It’s as if they’re decribing what it’s like to be gay in society and mimicing it like a child trying to piss off it’s sibling.
Oh god I could just go on and on. They’re using blackmail saying how it’s going to cause a war between state and church, isn’t it funny how the church has used the same tactics for centuries
It’s a shame they did not write a 1000 signatories letter on child abuse and systamatic hierarchal cover ups.
Probably too busy wanking and watching porn.
I bet Nazi party loyalists were very upset to lose the war in 1945 as well which meant they could no longer peddle their hatred and bigotry in schools and youth organisations too.
The 11th commandment of Roman Catholicism – A Licence to Hate.
Oh the poor priests. Won’t somebody think about the poor priests. Gay people getting married will effect them in the following ways………………………………………………………………….
“Legislation for same sex marriage, should it be enacted, will have many legal consequences, severely restricting the ability of Catholics to teach the truth about marriage in their schools, charitable institutions or places of worship.”
Great! Let’s hope it does.
There certainly seems to be a concerted attack from the catholic church againts Equal Marriage right now.
it’s worrying, because as well as preaching from the pulpit and the media, they are also using “their” members of Parliament to pressurise the government.
This is why the idea of a “free” vote was so badly judged. The catholic church has at least 55 MPs in the Commons, and perhaps even more influence in the Lords.
And i said “the catholic church” because as far as that church is concerned, these MPs are there to represent the catholic church’s interest, not the nation’s or their constituency’s. A free vote on such an issue allows them to do just that.
But at least we shall now see where those catholic parliamentarians true loyalties lie. It will be to the catholic church, and not to the people who elected them. We shall remember that.
Of course – it goes against Christian teaching. You might not agree with it but Christians cannot ignore it.
The proposed legislation is so ill thought out it’s comical – like the PM only had soap opera story-lines or business opportunities for wedding planners in mind when he decided to back “gay marriage”
There are lot’s of types of Christians and therefore lots of types of ‘Christian teaching’ – the Quaker and Unitarian varieties having no problem with equal marriage for instance. And for that matter the majority of Catholics seem to now be in favour of equal marriage, just they are in favour of contraception and divorce. But I’m inclined to agree with you and accept that all of these people are not going against Christian teaching, since they seem to be quite tolerant, forgiving and loving of others, as Christ taught. It’s the child-raping Catholics and homophobes such as the pope and his cardinals who seem to have no problems in ignoring Christ’s teaching, in order to sustain their wealth and power….
You’re right, here’s a list from the catholic paper the tablet(baroness shirley williams is one of it’s patrons) of all the catholic MPs
In one word…. Desperate!
A thousand Catholic priests are behaving like hysterical drama queens!
They are deliberately putting aside what persecution of Catholics was actually like!
Are all the Catholic priests and bishops of this country likely to have to hide in priest-holes? Are they likely to imprisoned for believing in their mumbo-jumbo? Are they likely to be put to death?
Of course not! But that’s what they alluding to!
The Catholic Church is fighting dirty re. gay marriage because they KNOW if they lose this battle the POWER of the Catholic Church is seriously weakened and forever!
They do like their outgroups.
They are being ‘persecuted’ in about the same way Alf Garnet was ‘persecuted’, because people won’t listen to them anymore on account of their bigoted opinions.
Perhaps if they just dropped the bigotry and treated others with the same respect they crave, they might notice a sea change but that would require being self-aware.
I agree with you. But having, to my shame, had a (sexual) relationship with one Catholic priest many many years ago and, more recently, a (sexual) relationship with someone who had been on the verge of ordination, and having come to how utterly and maddeningly without logic these people are, I don’t believe we are going to see them suddenly “seeing the light”. Their mumbo-jumbo enables them to forever justify their belief in those frightful old books and ordinances from on high.
Now, on a completely separate note, what do my partner and I do about the woman we’ve known for years who’s dating a doctor and this afternoon asked if she could come and see on a specific date? We replied instantly offering our home and dinner and an evening of festivity, and then half an hour later there comes back the message, “Great! But you can just hold on, we’re not sure about that date, it’ll depend on other friends we have in your part of the country, we’ll confirm later. Sorry about that”!
Think we’re on the same page with the first bit.
Re. your aquaintance with the doctor friend, by my reckoning your choices are basically:
1. to take the highground/ path of least resistance and leave the offer open or
2. tell her to make her bloody mind up sooner rather than later or her dinner plus evening of festivity will be in the dog. [if you don't own a dog, arrange delivery of a suitably sized dog].
Whether you’re tactful or blunt depends on how valued a friend she is.
Flapjack, thank you! I was furious when I wrote that. Good advice. We’ve decided to wait for the “confirmation” that she & doctor boyfriend will accept the hospitality, and if, as we hope, it arrives in a week’s time, we’ll be able to say “So awfully sorry but that night’s taken now . . . but do pop in for cup of tea or coffee in the afternoon, if you like”.
Last time this madam arranged to visit, me & partner travelled for one hour to special shop to collect all the gluten-free products she insists on eating and then at the last minute she cancelled! Trouble, she is, but great fun . . . on her terms!
“…the POWER of the Catholic Church is seriously weakened and forever!”
LOL — Do you think that priests think of ‘power’ in such secular terms ‘secula seculorum’? The Church’s doesn’t actually care about secular ‘power’, as if it’s a political party. The Church’s power is Jesus Christ, who promised his Church that “the gates of Hell would not prevail against it.” The Church may seem to lose battles but she can never lose the war, so to speak.
Wrong, wrong, wrong! Having been a member of three different religious orders of the Catholic Church in my youth, I KNOW that it’s all about HAVING POWER and LOVING the having of that power!
Oh, parading in front of all those foolish faithful on Sunday mornings, the thrill of it.
And just try NOT giving a Catholic priest the special respect he believes he is due by virtue of his dog-collar, and watch his fury! (Yes, his fury, not his humility!) I once refused to call one “Father” and the sad little man stopped what he was doing and kept repeating, “You will call me Father! Say it! Say it!”
They’re all deluded with ideas of grandeur and nonsense that give them a belief that they have ‘higher powers’ and power over the laity.
Stupidity multiplied by a thousand! What little respect I had for the clergy of my own church (Yes, I was, am, but probably won’t be much longer, a Catholic) has been diminished even further by their support of this fatuous argument. – They might have to teach that gay marriage is equal to straight marriage! – Well, if that is persecution, what about the terrible necessity to teach that all religions are equal (standard practice now in RE classes), or the even worse requirement to teach that all people are equal?
Leave, Joe. Leave. And don’t do it quietly. Write a simple letter to Messrs. Cameron and Clegg, and advise them what you have decided to do and why. And send a copy to The Guardian and The Independent, and any other papers you can.
I’ve never understood why religion, something so obviously a personal choice, is protected by law and given so many benefits.
Of course. Catholics are quite legally unable to voice disagreement with divorce and abortion laws, as we well know.
Not content with denigrating our sexuality, they have to insult our intelligence as well.
Cowards and would-be martyrs.
Now, given how the behave, I would love to see a movement to have them paying tax in countries where they are exempt – Taxes are the price all of us pay to live in civilisation and I demand that they do the same. Sticking their oar in politics must also be stopped.
They would not doubt call that persecution, when the truth is that people feel that being forced to be subject to the voices of an undemocratic freeloading cult is actually an act of tyranny.
But they do love jumping on the cross and lamenting “help help I’m a victim” which is why – given their history – I laugh at them.
If I was David Cameron, I would post it back with the message “Return to sender”.
Something as stupid as this doesn’t deserve the time of day.
What a load of drama queens – as if we’re about to see Tudor style Catholic persecution back in the UK!? What planet do these priests live on?
The Catholic Church has a very long and bloody history of persecution, just look at any history book. Nobody was left out women; gay men; witches; protestants; scientists (eg. Galleleo); artists; heretics; black people (eg. slavery); need I go on?
Finally, interesting that many Roman Catholic countries like Spain have equal marriage and there has been no persecutions because of it. My advice to Rome and its clergy is keep your noses OUT of UK politics and get on with spouting your mumbo jumbo to the deluded masses who support you!
If anything is going to invite an anti-catholic movement in the UK, its these idiots. Who do they think they are? The roman cult is a minority trying to subvert the government’s plans. A bit rich using the reformation and Henry VIII to justify their illogical rant. Always playing the bloody victim card as usual.
I blame this on the government and those in parliament who support equal marriage for failing to counter these mendacious, spurious statements. They’ve allowed this to fester, to go unaddressed and dealt with appropriately. Enough is enough! Who will rid England of these turbulent priests?
They should be told by the government in no uncertain terms
that Britain has been for a few hundred years a Protestant country and
therefore the Roman Catholic church has no influence here and that the British government will not tolerate their interference in politics. Hell, even the Irish government won’t tolerate that nowdays!
I don’t believe for a moment that this wasn’t inspired or fomented by direct orders of the Vatican. They’re on a tirade in France, in several American states of late and now the UK. The timing is so obvious as to who is actually behind it.
These priests are representatives of a foreign power and as such are meddling in the internal affairs of the UK on behalf of the Vatican. It’s time that changed.
Yep, it’s all-out of war from that bunch of deluded nutters, and, as you say, on orders from on high, for sure.
The Daily Telegraph hasn’t published the list of signatories, which I would love to see – as gay priests who signed deserve to be outed. Also they don’t allow commenting on the article – but the Daily Mail has invited comments and I suggest we go over there to vote down the bigots and counter their pathetic arguments
Also, how many on the list will be subsequently exposed as hypocrites, fraudsters, and child abusers in the future. A leopard cannot change its spots.
So let’s do the exposing, people, if we can. If anyone has anything on any of the priests who’ve signed that letter, then tell us here in this thread, tell Pink News, tell Peter Tatchell.
It’s time we stopped putting all our trust in the Coalition, time we stopped being passive. We need to really FIGHT BACK.
Years ago this guy came into the local loos, hung around for ages, and flashed around the biggest dick I’ve ever seen. Week later I was visiting friends in the local seminary (in East Oxford) and there he was! He was one of the senior priests in charge of educating the trainees! If his name were on the list, I could certainly expose him!
What a bunch of unmitigated BS!
Apparently it is still not understood that religion is a choice and not a must.
One of the signatories is a supposed leading Oxford theologian Fr Dr Andrew Pinsent – the same priests that was issued a municipal summons whilst working in the US for stopping a woman handing out letters about child abusing priests! so much for his support for ‘freedom of conscience’ you can read the account here http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2007/01_02/2007_02_02_KMOV_PriestAt.htm
This is the guy, it seems. He’s actually English and based at Arundel down in Sussex. He has links to St Louis University, having got his PhD there.
Your church has always persecuted others for not accepting your delusional religious view.
It is YOUR church that have been killing people for not agreeing with you.
It is YOUR church demonising people who have same sex relationships.
It is YOUR church that protects peadophiles within YOUR churches’ clergy.
It is YOUR church that masquerades for ”pro family” and denies condoms to prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS.
It is YOUR church that denies women to have a termination on the basis of the foetal ‘divine’ right to live, yet you don’t give a damn about them once they are born.
It is YOUR church that constantly complains and whines, knowing that as humans progress (hopefully) in a civilised. scientific and rational manner that your delusions will be exposed and whatever shred of power and influence you have will be taken away. It is YOUR church that is parading the the emperor with no clothes on, it’s only a matter of time when some does something about it.
Better to say:
It is YOUR church parading like the emperor with no clothes on. It’s only a matter of time when more people with join together to stand against YOUR church.
I like you, Raj! Well said!
Fr Andrew Pinsent a leading Oxford theologian -
St. Louis Archdiocese is promising disciplinary action against a priest accused of disturbing the peace.
A city police report states that the priest grabbed a woman after getting upset over a demonstration outside a church.
Sunday morning Barbara Dorris was handing out flyers on the sidewalk outside St. Ambrose Catholic Church on the Hill, leafleting is something Dorris has been doing since 1992 with other members of SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests.
When they speak out in equal numbers about the horrendous paedophilia in their cult over the last 50 years (at least) then perhaps they might have some legitimacy. In the mean time they are all just paedophiles, paedophile enablers or paedo protectors like their ex Naz1 leader in Rome….. In the meantime they should just shut the phuck up….
Vincent Browne on Irish TV3 gave the RC representatives a REALLY hard time of it this week on his show.
Thanks. That was JUICY!
Not being able to persecute others is not persecution.
Again and again, this group of homophobic priests who do not wish to live in the 21st century and enforce prehistoric arguments which are not anymore relevant in todays society. Go back to the stone age!
Why not sextuple lock?
These ‘guarantees’ are all meaningless.
Everyone knows it.
I have no more intention of getting married in a catholic church than I would return to a shop where the shop assistants treat me like crap on their shoe.
I leave it to those masochists who enjoy elderly virgins in frocks staring daggers at them on their special day.
I’ve just sent the following letter to the
Telegraph. Perhaps if enough of us did the same…….
SIR – After centuries of persecution, often at the hands of the Catholic church, gays have, in recent times, been able to be members of the professions and participate fully in the life of this country.
Legislation for same-sex marriage, should it be enacted, will have many legal consequences, none of which will restrict the ability of Catholics to teach the truth about marriage in their schools, charitable institutions or places of worship. It would, however, remove an unfair discrimination.
It is meaningless to argue that Catholics and others may not still teach their beliefs about marriage in schools and other arenas if they are also expected to explain the opposite view at the same time.
The natural love between two people leads to marriage, seen as a lifelong partnership. This loving union is open to bringing forth and nurturing children.
This is what marriage is. Marriage, and the home, children and family life it generates, is the foundation and basic building block of our society.
I urge Members of Parliament not to be afraid to support this legislation now that its consequences are more clear.
The Catholic Church doesn’t cope with prolonged periods of relative peace, technological advancement and social reform. It’s a time when their irrelevance starts to dawn on increasing numbers of people.
Equal marriage has become an issue which it has yet again drawn a line in the sand over, needlessly, as some form of bravado to prove to itself that it is merely a blip that its opinion isn’t the sole consideration of world governments.
Every time they lose a raft of families in the Americas and Europe who have been devoted to them for centuries. No amount of Africans or Asians converted in 2013 will make up for the loss of that ‘guaranteed’ congregation, who have now outgrown them.
Say what!!! Years of persecution of Catholics? Oh, right. So what about the years of burning Protestants under Bloody Mary, the Inquisition and forcing the people of other countries to convert at the point of a sword. And THEY talk of persecution. I despair, I really do. And they have, as the head of their bloody church, a man who was a member of the worst persecutors ever..the Nazis. Are they kidding?
more Ant-Catholic lies and distortions …
Sure…nothing like likening David Cameron to Henry VIII and saying gays will ‘destroy the institution of marriage’ and lead to persecution of Catholics’…..no lies and distortions there….oh no no no no……
@Ray. Lies and distortions!!! You really should read your history, mate. There has been more wars, grief, pain and terror in the name of religion than anything else. Read about the Crusades if you doubt it.
And the pope is a nasty, evil bigot.
I’m not totally au fait with these things but i’m guessing ‘we’ could sign a letter to the government demanding gay marriage. Surely the number of people signing this would far outstrip these priests?
Interesting that they are worried about being persecuted. What about the LGBT children who have to sit in church and listen to the priest call them an abomination, immoral, and unworthy of equal civil rights? The psychological damage the Roman Catholic Church have been doing to innocent kids for centuries is deplorable.
Maybe they will re-examine some of their outdated views when they are ostracized by the fair minded- non-Catholic public. We can only hope.
‘LGBT children who have to sit in church and listen to the priest call them an abomination, immoral, and unworthy of equal civil rights?’
Have you the recordings from this fantasy scenario ? ‘LGBT children’ – what children ?You should read the Catechism of the Catholic Church to educate your self :
They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
I recommend watching ‘Prayers for Bobby’ a film based on a true story to see what religion does to people esp young people!
ROFL. Grow up FFS.
” to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition’.
‘condition’. So you are implying that LGBT people are sick? You are the sick one.
I’ve now written about this in my own blog. I have included the full text of the letter and the full list of signatories to it – some may care to see whether the local priest where you live has participated. As it so happens the priest in our local Catholic church does not appear as a signatory to the letter. The link is here:
Thank you, Bill. Will be scouring that list to see if the name of the local RC priest-loony (as opposed to the priest-loonies of all other religions represented in this area) appears on it.
So, they are telling us that unless we help them persecute LGBT people, they’ll feel persecuted? Fine, go ahead and feel persecuted. It’s about time the shoe is on the other foot.
A return to Catholics being persecuted?
Why is that of any concern to me?
You lot have spent most of the past few years having a go at the gay guys. Now that the boot is on the other foot, there is an issue. Well tough sh!t. Mak do, put up with it or fack off back to the cave. As to likening Cameron to Henry VIII, and the historical ditty you mention behind it, separate church and state then. You keep your nose out of the business of the state and the state will kep its nose out of the business of the church. Mind you, you lot are a law to yourselves anyway, getting away with child molestation by simply hiding the wrong doer in some other church.
Threaten religious freedom? And, what about the freedom of gay guys? We’re just getting one of the much sought after freedoms we have desired now. You’ve had your freedom. Its about time this was taken off you. That and your ability to get away with molesting children while they are in your care.
Fcuk the roman catholic church and it’s followers!
‘Combined with equality laws, and other legal restraints, the government’s plans would threaten the freedom of Catholics working in schools, charities and other public bodies, from speaking about their beliefs on marriage, wrote the priests.’
Perhaps the indoctrination of young minds might not be a good thing. Feeding children with their pernicious propaganda is nothing less than child abuse. Religious teaching without balance has no place in schools. Faith schools need to be abolished.
‘Perhaps the indoctrination of young minds might not be a good thing. Feeding children with their pernicious propaganda is nothing less than child abuse’
are you talking about Stonewall ? Google Jamie Rennie LGBT ….he campaigned against ‘homophobia’ too …
‘Religious teaching without balance has no place in schools. Faith schools need to be abolished.’
According to the United Nations parents have a right and freedom to educate their children as in what ever faith they wish .You’d prefer the North Korean, or Nazi model I presume ?
What about the right of the children to determine for themselves whether they adhere to a bigoted crock of supernaturalistic nonsense or not?
Do parents have a “right” to indoctrinate their children in political beliefs? In misogynistic beliefs? In racist beliefs? Do governments mandate freedom to set up racist schools?
No? Then why the hell should religion be any different?
And given that Hitler was a roman catholic and the Nazis had a very favourable concordat with the vatican throughout their reign, I think you ought to find someone else to talk about…
All children have to have some form of education. What makes you think children who have been raised with the values you approve of haven’t been “indoctrinated”?
PARENTS have a right to educate their children in whatever faith they wish. Then all faith teaching in school should be abolished and parents choose to educate on faith outside of school.
And give it a rest about Rennie. We all know what he did. He’s a scumbag. He was prosecuted. He wasn’t protected and given a promotion by the Vatican.
“Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.”
Never read such hate filled lies , distortions and contemptible idiotic rantings .
Ray, who are you quoting when you say “Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals” ?
(Is your second line a dismissal of the first?)
“Never read such hate filled lies , distortions and contemptible idiotic rantings”…Try reading the readers’ comments on the Daily Telegraph website whenever the subject of equal marriage comes up….or for a classier form of hate have a look at the speeches by the Pope where he describes homosexuality as objectively disordered…Then there’s the nonsense coming out of O’Brien’s and Nichol’s various orifices….Or the Catholic Herald – that’s a fun source of rabid ranting hate-speech…..there’s loads hate filled lies , distortions and contemptible idiotic rantings spewed out by the bigoted god-botherers if you just open your eyes….
The Catholic church is one of the world’s wealthiest and most powerful organisations and their followers are respected and occupy many powerful positions within our society. They are in just as much danger of being persecuted as white people are, so their claims of victimisation should be taken just as seriously as Nick Griffin’s.
The historical persecution of Catholics in the UK was shameful, but this began as a tit-for-tat response to the persecution of Protestants under Catholic rulers. If some modern Catholics expect sympathy for events that happened centuries ago, then they should also expect plenty of blame.
Yes persecution of Catholics in Britain was shameful and the persecution of Protestants was also shameful.
But what a lot readers on this topic seem to be forgetting here is that not ALL Catholics are the same not ALL Catholics are against Civil same-sex marriage and not ALL Catholics are homophobic bigots, I didn`t see this much Church of England bashing last month when they came out against same sex marriage.
I`ve noticed there still does seem anti catholic attitudes in this country yes even in 2013 it`s still there and still seems to be deep rooted in British society.
I personally don`t agree with the actual Chruches views on same sex marriage I think they are outdated and backward especially regarding Civil Marriage because it doesn`t effect them in any shape or form.
But lets not forget bigotry is bigotry whether it comes from religious folk towards gays or whether it comes from gays towards religious folk there is no excuse from either side.
“I didn`t see this much Church of England bashing last month when they came out against same sex marriage.”
I despise the Church of England (I was unfortunate enough to attend one of their schools) and am angry about their often disingenuous intervention in this debate, but let’s be honest: their opposition isn’t nearly as strong as that of the Catholic church. They don’t call us “evil” or instruct all of their worshippers and pupils to sign petitions against same-sex marriage. They even allow individual bishops and priests to speak out in favour of same-sex marriage, which would not be tolerated in the Catholic church.
“I`ve noticed there still does seem anti catholic attitudes in this country yes even in 2013 it`s still there and still seems to be deep rooted in British society.”
There *are* anti-Catholic attitudes, but then you could say that about most other religious, political or social movements. Catholics certainly seem to be more highly respected than, say, Jehovah’s witnesses or Muslims or neo-Nazis or feminists or vegans.
Besides, I really have a problem with people equating prejudice based on someone’s beliefs, opinions or actions, with prejudice based on an innate characteristic. For example, I am a vegetarian. If I was made to feel extreme shame or self-loathing based on that fact, then there is an easy solution: start eating meat. I spent years feeling extreme shame and self-loathing based on my sexuality, all the while knowing that it was going to stay with me for the rest of my life.
You are quite right that not all Catholics are the same, and everyone of us would do well to remember that in fact the majority of ordinary Catholics now seem to be in favour of equal marriage. And upon reflection, accepting at face value the headline under discussion misses the real news here, which is that 75% of Catholic priests DON’T “fear that equal marriage will mark a return to centuries of persecution”….One might even speculate that such a majority may not even support the campaign being conducted against the notion of equal marriage by the Catholic hierarchy….
Of course most Catholics in the UK are in favour of equal marriage. Criticism of the Catholic Church isn’t persecution of Catholics, it’s valid criticism of the autocrats at the top of the hierarchy throwing around outright lies about us.
So if there is an anti-Catholic backlash, and as a fierce critic of both the Vatican and Ratzinger I sincerely hope there isn’t, then it will the Cardinals that are to blame. My only criticism of Catholics is why they put up with such vicious old men pretending to speak for them.
…most Catholics in the UK are in favour of Marriage being the union of one man and one woman .Sorry to deconstruct your ‘argument’ .Teaching remains the same now as it was 2000 years ago.
If most of the Catholics were against same sex marriage and were so bothered about it then all 8 million or thereabouts currently “practising” or not in the UK would have signed the C4M petition to keep it that way. The Catholic church have been so vocal on this issue and have literally demanded that each Catholic do their bit to stop it and yet as we see here only 25% of the priests are bothered to add the signatures to the letter and around 50% of the lab and Tory catholic MPs have already come out in favour of SSM. NO, I hardly think the majority of Catholics believe marriage has to be between a man and woman but YES they are terribly vocal in making us think they are the majority view.
“Teaching remains the same now as it was 2000 years ago.”
Exactly. Out of date out of touch. Do you believe the Earth is flat, Ray?
As their good book says: do unto others as you would have done to you.
If they feel so worried about being persecuted, maybe they should stop persecuting us (and others) and get on with their sad, brainwashed lives.
‘they should stop persecuting us (and others)’ – what part of the following do you not understand ? It’s from the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church , the Catechism :
‘They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.’
I suppose someone ‘brainwashed’ only hears what they want to hear and not the reality .Pink propaganda – repeat a lie long enough ……
i totally agree. sounds like the kettle calling the pan black to me. If they ahve done nothing wrong they have nothing too fear, have they?
People, see the list of Catholic priests who have signed this letter at:
He’s a man with a d*ck, no better than any of us, who fantasizes and masturbates like all other men but who has the nerve to have “the faithful” believe he doesn’t!
I think you’ll find that he is married – being a former Anglican Bishop. It is the type of crap he’s been coming out with for years…
The Rev Dom Michael Clothier and Rt Rev Dom Aidan Bellenger Abbot of Downside School signed the letter.
Here is the FB page to the schools website:
The list did not include a single Archbishop, or bishop of a significant diocese, – most are retired bishops and ancient canons and monsignors, very few younger clergy have signed it, not that there are many left.
Craig, I have an old childhood friend who went to Downside School. He’s in Australia now, and about two years ago I saw a link to a story in the Daily Mail about one of the priests at Downside having been arrested for getting his rocks off with the boys! So I sent the link to my friend in Australia. So at least one monk at Downside was “at it” on the sly. And from my experience I am certain he wasn’t and is not the only one.
Religion needs to stay out of politics and government. They should NOT speak for their followers. Their followers are free to vote THEIR beliefs.
Amazingly, the church is threatened by LGBT marriage and feels the need to speak out, write letters, organize petitions, threaten excommunication, etc.
Where was that outrage, those voices, protests, petitions when the Nazis killed millions of Jews, gypsies, communists, gays and political prisoners?
Where were they as the dozens of stories broke, and continue to break, about pederast priests in Holland, Britain, France, Chile, Spain, Germany, Italy and dozens of other countries?
Where were the 1000 priests when the Vatican’s finances showed investments in weapons manufacturers’ stocks; in pharmaceutical companies’ stocks, companies that make contraceptives and abortifacients. Where are these politically active priests when Benedict is trying to repress nuns and refuse to ordain women? Shockingly quiet.
People will not be free until the last king has been strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
Well, there is hope. No priests were ordained in the archdiocese of Dublin for the last two years in a row.
So if that’s the real reason exactly what is their problem with equal marriage in France?
Do they honestly think Brits are so stupid we’ll believe this?
This is a bit rich. The roman cult wasn’t compelled to teach about civil partnerships so what would make them think they’d have to teach about equal marriage? This is proof of just how desperate these religious bigots are when they bring up the reformation and Henry VIII. I hope we see anti-catholic sentiment growing in the UK after this latest tirade. They bring it on themselves then play the victim card. I have NO sympathy for them.
You can bet they never taught catholic children about paedophilia and why it is so rampant in their church, compared to other denominations. I bet you they never told them that their bishops, cardinals and Pope covered it up while thousands of innocent lives of boys and girls were destroyed and they’ve never taken responsibility for it. F_cking evil catholic church, ditto their clergy.
Catholic priests shouldn’t be anywhere near children either!
You and Goebbles would of got on rather well .Just as the liberal elite has tried to discredit the Church by trying to insinuate that paedophilia is more prevalent than in other denominations (there are over 40,000 protestant churches – but only one Holy Catholic Church) – this is nothing new :
Sweet Mother of Chaos, you’re totally obsessed, aren’t you? Give it a rest you deluded little man.
There’s a perfectly good reason why the Catholic church attracted both more paedophiles and more gay priests: it created the role of ‘celibate priest’ with power and authority in the community (as well as access to children) as a respectable cover for those men who don’t want to marry women. If you live alone – as Savile did – it’s easier to hide your sexual preferences than if you have a partner (of either sex – another reason for tolerating gay priests in relationships), and in more innocent times such ‘abstinence’ was treated by the populace as a virtue. Ironically, the RC church introduced celibacy primarily out of greed, to prevent wealth leaking out of the Church via wives and children. $2.5bn in compensation later, some of them might have wondered whether that idiot who preached poverty and something about rich men, camels and needles might have been right…’Radix malorum est cupiditas’…..
If all people who label themselves ‘gay’ lead celibate lives rather than disordered sexual depravity their would have been no HIV explosion in San Francisco, no 1000% instances of anal cancer in the so-called LGBT ‘community’ , no lymphogranuloma venereum etc etc Less drug abuse , fisting,damaged rectums, STD’s suicides too and happier people who really would be ‘gay’.
Drop dead you deluded sick fool.
Pray to your stupid deity.
And if all people who labelled themselves ‘Catholic priest’ had lead celibate lives, there would be tens of thousands fewer raped children around, and the Catholic church would be $2.5bn better off……At least the damaged rectums of gay people are adult rectums – what about the rectums of all those children the Catholic priests wrecked??….As you seem to be a Catholic priest apologist, I’m surprised you keep forgetting the childrens’ rectums, Ray – especially as they turned out to be such an expensive preoccupation for your Church….
It’s rather obvious you’re not a happy deeply closeted gay man, otherwise why do you even bother trolling a gay site? Can’t stay away from the men?
Why don’t you go troll the straight sites and address the heterosexual adulterers, philanderers who also succumb to STDs, some of whom engage in non-vaginal sex too, moron. Whlie you’re at it, have a go at the paedophile priests some of whom molested girls, you sick, deluded bastard.
BULLSHIT ! Never has this expression been more appropriate. BULLSHIT !
where were the 1054 signatories when children were being abused and the hierarchy were covering up. shame on you god believers.
Are there no depths to which they won’t sink…. this will restrict their ability to teach “truth” to Catholic children… that will include those tens of thousands abused by the Catholic Church will it? The Church lost any moral authority when it ran the largest paedophile ring on earth and attempted to cover it up…. utter and complete hypocrisy
Meanwhile the State turns a blind eye to the homosexual abuse of children by ‘gay’ foster ‘parents’ .Ian Wathey and his ‘civil’ partner Craig Faunch were ‘trophy’ foster carers because they were the first homosexual ‘couple’ in West Yorkshire to foster .
LGBT Stonewall Youth chief executive Jamie Rennie campaigned in the Scottish parliament for homosexuals to have the ‘right’ to adopt and foster , he also campaigned against so-called ‘homophobia’ .He’s in prison now for raping a 3 month old baby with his ‘boyfriend’.His fantasy was to adopt a boy with Down’s Syndrome to abuse .
You have all the indications of being a catholic priest. No matter how you troll on this site the facts are that the Roman Catholic Church is loathsome, loathed, and is deservedly known as such. No furhter comment or exchange with you is required now go and cry on the pages of the Catholic Herald and tell yourself what a good little soldier for your imaginary friend in the sky you are.
Your distortions are becoming even more laughable: how could you report the imprisonment of someone as being an example of the state ‘turning a blind eye’???…..Next you’ll be telling us that the decades in which the Catholic hierarchy bussed child-abusers from parish to parish to continue their abuse is in fact a text-book example of child protection, and that the solution to world over-population is more children…You seem to like news stories, so here’s one about a nice Christian lady who shares your zealous homophobia: http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/anti-gay-zealot-guilty-child-pornography-after-videotaping-14-year-old-daughter
ok so I have seen the list – am surprised to see the following have signed it
Very Rev Fr Hugh Allan
Fr Paul Chavasse – especially as he was linked to a young gay man – read the story here http://standpointmag.co.uk/open-season-sept-10-ruth-dudley-edwards-birmingham-three
Fr Patrick Greasley – esp as he used computers in a primary school to view porn, you can read the story here http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-23877316_ITM
Fr Stephen Hardaker
Fr Tim Hopkins – especially as he is currenly under police investigation for the sexual abuse of an 11 year old girl http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1595632_catholic-priest-father-tim-hopkins-quizzed-over-eleven-year-old-girl-sex-abuse-allegations
Fr Michael Jones
Fr Mark Moran
Fr Alexander Redman
Fr Gerard Skinner
Fr Adrian Tomlinson
Fr Peter Vellacott
Fr Christopher Whitehouse
Fr Thomas Wood
The Tim Hopkins case highlights a further consequence of the homophobically inspired ‘analysis’ by the RC of the child abuse problem as a ‘homosexual problem’: it leaves the Jimmy Saviles of this world free from suspicion. Hopkins is accused of abusing girls 2004-2007 – well after the gay witch-hunt had begun by the Catholic hierarchy. Presumably he felt safe to commit his abuse because the official line was that ‘all the abusers are gay’…
You should send this to the PM
Dear Messrs Cameron & Clegg,
Re. priests who have signed the letter against Marriage Equality, a cursory scan of the signatures reveals those of several who have convictions for offences as follows.
Fr Paul Chavasse – linked to a young gay man – read the story here http://standpointmag.co.uk/open-season-sept-10-ruth-dudley-edwards-birmingham-three
Fr Patrick Greasley – he used computers in a primary school to view porn, you can read the story here http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-23877316_ITM
Fr Tim Hopkins – he is currently under police investigation for the sexual abuse of an 11 year old girl http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1595632_catholic-priest-father-tim-hopkins-quizzed-over-eleven-year-old-girl-sex-abuse-allegations
I am quite certain that if each of those individuals who have signed that letter to you were to scrutinised, it would be found that a significant number of them are hardly paragons of virtue! Hypocrites, more like.
This post appears truncated – is there more?
I am sure that more can be found than this.
I found this :
Jamie Rennie, Chief Executive, LGBT Youth Scotland said:
“This campaign is an open discussion with young people. Homophobic bullying is not acceptable within our schools, but we are seeking to create dialogues with young people rather than to preach.
“It is the responsibility of young people to treat each other with respect, but it is everyone’s responsibility to tackle homophobic bullying.”
I strongly urge all of us to contact the media with this information, make as much noise as we can. Send copies to Archbishop Nichols, David Cameron. Theresa May, Maria Miller, StonewallUK as well as key supporters in Parliament.
Thank you, Shout it from the rooftops. This information is extremely helpful.
Thank you for posting extremely helfpul information. You should send it to every media outlet, the PM as Craig Denney pointed out, Archbishop Nichols, and StonewallUK.
Shout if from the rooftops, those remaining 8 on your list, I’ve not found anything online about them. I managed to find a live sermon by Fr. Redman who in my view is gay.
If PinkNews ran a story about what ‘Shout it from the roof tops’ has found, it would shoot down in flames this letter from 1,000 paedophiles.
Religion has no place in politics. Our government is in place to set policy for the good of the country (not saying they do but that’s a whole different can of worms), and the fact is that our country is a delightful melting pot of different religions and cultures. To cater to one religion is to exclude a lot of the rest, and that is not acceptable. You can’t take them all into account because of contradictions. So government needs to leave religions to tend to the people who subscribe to them and make policy based on basic human rights.
I am not Christian or Catholic, and I object mightily to the very idea that their beliefs have any influence on my rights as a human being. What their god has to say about how I live my life means absolutely nothing to me, so why should I be forced to live with what they dictate?
Religion should not be allowed to dictate government policy, and it should keep its teachings to in its own spaces where people are free to visit if they should so wish.
I agree. Politicians should also stop deferring to them and being politically correct. Not one of them has condemned or refuted the disgusting rhetoric coming from the roman cult and to some extent the CoE. These bigots get an exorbitant amount of media coverage and any supporters precious little. There is a religious war on in the UK and the opponents who happen to be the minority are determined to impose their beliefs on government and on the country. Until someone starts to take them on, that’s just what will happen. I’m appalled at the apathy and complacency and that goes for many in the gay community too. We’re allowing these nasty people to get away with it. Where is StonewallUK in all this?
And waht about the millenia of persection that gay people have experienced at the hands of the church? Funny how things change when you no longer have the upper hand huh?
‘millenia of persection’….give an example pray tell , with historical references ?
Thanks for supplying zero examples. ‘Gay’ lobby tilting at windmills again .
I posted a link to the article on my facebook page with a comment “centuries of persecution?” and was within minutes subject to thoroughly nasty messages from a Catholic friend who accused me of spreading hate about his religion and promising to report me to facebook for using Facebook for racist remarks against his religion…..what was sad (more than his not knowing the meaning of the word racist) was the fact that he is a gay man.
Phew. That’s sad, but not uncommon. I’ve been intimately involved with Catholic religious communities (years ago) and they’re full of individuals who are so screwed up. I would say half are just psychosexually screwed up, and the rest are deeply ashamed of their homosexuality and desperate to hid behind “the celibacy of the priesthood”. Of course psychosexually screwed-up Catholics don’t just exist inside religious orders. They exist amongst the laity as well. They’re the young sad fu****s to be seen on their knees at Saturday night Mass when healthy people their age are enjoying life.
The Catholic church does not need anyone to spread ‘hatred’ about their religion….they are more than capable of doing a good job of that all by themselves….witness this ‘letter’ signed by 1000 priests. How many of them are pedophiles, one wonders? And let us not even get to that person they call ‘pope’ who transferred and hid all of the pedophiles from the reach of the LAW! Such great MORAL AUTHORITY! yeah, right…..they deserve persecution for all the persecting they continue to do! LGBT people persecute no one…..
Goodness, so many comments. I don’t know if this has been covered, but here is the list of bigots;
it seemed to be removed from the original letters section.
At the bottom you’ll find a post by me saying it’s 1021 all in (removing the 3 duplicates).
And there is a copy of the original letter at;
pdf version – you can save it.
I would like to know what the mathematical “mode” age is, i.e. the age which most of these people are, and I’m guessing it’s in the 65 range. They are a different generation to most, and young people support equal rights without hesitation. The national life cycle process will sort this out eventually, although it would be nice if they had a change of heart (assuming they even have one).
Many of the above views are worthy of Der Stürmer (the Anti-Catholic Pink News of it’s day):
You still want to go there?
Hitler was a self-professed catholic and your current pope was a member of his Hitler youth and appears to have absorbed the lesson well.
Gay people at that time were mostly the ones with the pink triangles on their lapels in the concentration camps. If anyone gets to go ‘Godwin’ on this thread I think it should be us.
According to the leading authority on Hitler (Ian Kershaw) , Hitler , (who’s mother was Catholic) was not confirmed in the Faith .A life long Anti-Catholic who imprisoned/killed 1000′s of priests , shut down seminaries, banned Catholic papers, Catholic youth groups – who’s every policy was opposed to Catholic teaching .Hitler also imprisoned a small minority of homosexuals , rapists , and molesters.The SA(storm troopers) was mostly homosexual .William Shirer says in his definitive “Rise and Fall of the Third Reich,” not only that Roehm was “important in the rise of Hitler,” but also “like so many of the early Nazis, (he was) a homosexual.”
Our current Pope was in the hitler youth – you fail to recognise that forced military conscription was liable for all people of that age .The Pope’s family suffered the loss of a cousin to Nazi Euthanasia (he had Down’s – now-a-days these same people are aborted or ‘screened’).Gunter Grass (look him up)was also conscripted – is he a nazi too ?
It`s time this haven for evil was done away with. Either by its own doing or with some simple passing of laws.And if passing a law for equal marriage rights for gays and lesbians is what it takes then bring it on . It is well over due. These priests talk of freedom of speech and freedom of religion . Im all for it as long as it does not curtail the rights and freedoms of the rest of us . They can go on wailing into the night, for all care like wounded animals. They certainly don`t care for others rights .Perhaps it would be a good thing for them to suffer a few hundred years of persecution. They didn`t mind giving it to everyone else.Their homophobia knows no bounds.Imagine playing the victim , do they really think anyone will listen . After their record of the last 2000 plus years.
This is the problem. They demand freedom of expression / speech …. but only for themselves. The Spanish Inquisition was not exactly a model for civilian Free Speech, now was it? This and similar religious outfits are losing the deference, power and control they’ve enjoyed for centuries. They don’t like it. They see the ‘gay’ issue as the Final Conflict. Once total gay equality has been achieved, what have they left to moralise about? Child molestation? I think not. So they can see their days are numbered. Hopefully that number is 666 – and counting.
Poor Ray, like many religious people, is mentally ill. Perhaps he needs a period of treatment in a lunatic asylum.
Religious faith stands in the way of critical thinking and intellectual honesty.
Does anybody know if the actual list of those who signed has been published anywhere?
This is the ranting of a spoiled child when its position of privilidge is threatened. I don’t know why we continue to give these tosspots such publicity. Mind you, the more their nuttiness is exposed, the faster rational people will run a mile. So, keep up the good work of alienating yourselves from the rest of civilisation, boys! Oh. And keep your hands to yourselves.
UK laws permit contraception, abortion and divorce – all of which are vitriolically rejected by the catholic church. Do these civil rights “severely curtail the
catholic church’s freedom to practise and speak publicly about their faith”?? No, of
course not: The catholic church is perfectly free to preach against contraception, abortion and divorce – which is not even recognised. By the same logic, the catholic church could easily preach against and refuse to recognise same-sex unions… even if
the state/uk also allowed for this.
Ie: UK laws create divorcees, whom the catholic religion refuses to recognise or re-marry. Logically, if the UK recognises same-sex marriage, then surely the catholic religion could easily treat these people like divorcees (by refusing to recognise