Their is no God so all this so called biblical law is bollox – it is time religion was downgraded by the world to mere Superstition Then the human race can finally move forward as one species
What does “move forward as one species” actually mean? Sounds like repackaged superstition to me. If you are an atheist, be a consistent one – there is no god > no absolute good and evil > no absolute morality – only constantly shifting cultures and power structures.
I think we are one species aren’t we? So can’t we move forward and leave superstition behind?
Incidentally talking about children as objects. How many straight parents dressed their tiny babies as elves or put reindeer antlers on their heads in the last week. How much respect does that show to your child?
I think morality is an evolving emergent phenomenon. We have moved forward as a species things do change and improve & will continue to do so, what is good is what is good for the human race. There is no such thing as good or evil just people who do good or bad things. Morality has nothing to do with faith.
Jason, the 20th Century was perhaps the most blood-soaked in human history, and also saw the invention of the means of complete world destruction in the atomic bomb. Most countries remain resolutely undemocratic & the nation with the world’s worst human rights record, China, is in the ascendant. The idea that humanity is progressing morally is extremely fanciful.
The only country ever to use the atom bomb was the most fundamentalist Christian in the world: the USA.
The invention of the atom bomb has arguably deterred another world war so far, given the universal consciousness that there would likely be no winners.
The countries with the worst human rights records are those that impose religious beliefs on their citizens. Top of the list come the Islamic theocracies. Then come China and North Korea with their fundamentalist authoritarian political religion of communism. Thankfully, people have generally been able to throw off the yoke of Christian theocracy, but it has taken a great deal of struggle to do so, and Christian religionists still enjoy too much influence on matters concerning the secular state alone, such as equal marriage.
As theological and political religious fundamentalism lose their influence, people’s natural compassion, wisdom and sense of right and wrong are increasingly shining through.
It does not follow from there being a God that there is “absolute good and evil.” If we are commanded to follow God’s laws just because he is God and because he will punish us for eternity if we don’t, then he is just a bully. Nothing moral about being a bully.
If we are supposed to follow God’s laws because he is “good”, then if “being good” is equivalent to “following God’s laws” then this system provides us with a contingent model of good and evil rather than an absolute one. We are just being told that the definition of “good” is ” acting in accordance with the God of the Bible,” who is actually quite an unpleasant entity.
If there is absolute moral goodness, then it must be anterior to God, with him deciding to act in accordance with it. If this is the case, then we have no way of testing whether he succeeds or fails. It also means he is not omnipotent, as he is bound by the moral law he didn’t create.
Christianity is a load of shallow bunkum.
No sweetie – what does “move forward as one species” actually mean? It’s as much “religious” bollox as anything found in the bible – without the advantage of being remotely true.
I like how JD have proof there is no God. But I don’t need God to make an argument why being ‘gay’ is not good.
It comes down to natural law. Every living creature on earth has as it’s only reason for existing is to reproduce. Without reproduction there is no living creature. So, sorry to inform you if you cannot reproduce you are failing as a living creature and mother nature fixies it by having your DNA line die off. Mother nature makes mistakes all the time. 98% of all species have become extinct.
Don’t be so thoughtlessly silly. Let us consider an obvious example: the vast majority of bees never reproduce – are their lives therefore useless? Your inability to understand something does not make it untrue.
Societies of the world are reproducing with disastrous consequences… many cannot feed the offspring they produce and the world is increasingly becoming over populated.
What ignorance to think natural law means to over reproduce with such evil consequences. What ignorance to think that being LGBT isn’t as natural as bark on the trees. All those that claim their bigoted view of humanity show they know nothing about natural law. Prehaps the advice should be educate before showing themselves up by lookin so damn thick!
That is a fallacious argument. “Natural law” is a fiction. As Hume rightly demonstrated, you cannot derive an “ought” from an “is”. For a start, you are assuming that the outcome of reproduction is a good in itself. Why should producing new generations of suffering animals and humans on the Earth be a good in itself?
Secondly, the argument that for “every living creature on Earth ,,, its only reason for existing is to reproduce,” implies the world is meaningless. Any suggestion that producing a theoretically infinite future chain of intrinsically meaningless lives (that only have meaning extrinsically to produce more lives that are themselves intrinsically meaningless) implies that life in the present moment is never intrinsically meaningful, and will never produce anything intrinsically meaningful. That is not the experience of my life, and I reject your nihilism.
Thirdly, your take on evolution is too simplistic. LGBT people are usually born to heterosexual parents.
The government issues licences not the Church
Sick and tired of this stupid Catholic Church thinking they run the lives of every person on the planet.
Well said! Well said indeed!
A thoroughly heartfelt and well researched article and I’m sure you’ll find no disagreement here.
what would you expect of a church whose symbol is tghat of an instrument of torture and murder.
Why isnt it a symbol of a heart for example. Because they have from their very beginning hated every minoirty group on which they could lay their hands
Look at a map of Africa from eg the 1950s – almost every country with two names – one European one African.
The wealth of the church and the catholic kings came from stealilng those africans blind. As well as selling htem into slavery.
Thence came WWII and the holocaust courtesy of a catholic named hitler who leveraged the hate to get elected.
The catholic church is the Wests Sunni. For some of the xtian groups they are the shia.
Well written and right on target.
I hope Adrian sends this to the Guardian, Times, Evening Standard. It needs wide exposure. I’m hoping he can send it to every MP.
I wonder if we can have the bisops ec charged under hate laws. they are an evil bunch and deserve to be castrated and returned to Rome
And they run a currupt scam by sponsoring faith schools that the taxpayer pays for, controlling staffing and admissions, and so forcing parents to pretend to be loyal catholics in order to get a school place for their children.
And they have a strange relationship with the BBC but that’s so wierd I don’t know how to summerise it.
I hope all those with money to spare consider joining the National Secular Society who seem to be the only people who notice that something is wrong.
It’s not such a strange relationship with the BBC, the bastion of arch conservatism with a catholic Director General, Chris Patten at the helm and prior to that, another catholic, Mark Thompson. The BBC have become by default the official media spokesperson for the roman cult in the UK with a little help from the Daily Mail and Telegraph.
Chris Patten is not DG, he is chairman of the Trust, which has no direct input on the programming. It is there to ensure the independence, integrity and neutrality of the BBC. As such Patten has no real power, the other Trustees can out-vote him.
Similiarly, the Trust has been tasked to ensure such prejudice towards the RC Church or anyone else is stamped on.
They are an insidious cult with ratzo’s minions worming their way into positions of power. If it was the Russians we would be worried.
This is an outstanding article by Adrian Tippetts.
If only we had some multi-millionaire LGBT sponsors who were willing to finance the publication of this excellent article in every newspaper of the land. That is exactly what it deserves.
I really hope that all our LGBT campaigning organisations will tweet the link to this article to their followers.
With people like Adrian Tippetts on our side, the bigots, liars and misanthropes of the Catholic Church will never prevail.
Agreed – and this is one of the best articles I’ve ever read on PN.
If Adrian doesn’t send it to every MP, for or against, then we can help by emailing or tweeting them ourselves. Why hasn’t Ben Summerskill stepped in I wonder? I find it very odd that there has been no response from StonewallUK.
Absolutely brilliant article. So many fantastic points.
I’ll be sharing this on every social network that I’m part of!
Let this New Year of 2013 be the starting point for the fight against religious bigotry and falsehood. Gay people have the numbers, time and most importantly the money to bring this fight to the conclusion the World needs; the End of Religion. Gay people world wide along with our many friends and supporter will make these cults sorry they ever even heard of Gay people never mind oppose us and demean us….Bring it On.
People have been fighting religious bigotry and stupidity for many years.
I want 2013 to be the year where there is a separation of church and state in Britain and when the state stops financing ‘faith’ schools.
I don’t often agree with you, dAVID, but I certainly do on this one.
what? no bigotry paddy? whats wrong with you today?
wondered when id see another post from paddy crappy little man
The catholic hierarchy hate women,hate children, hate gay people and the catholic clergy rape children.
Nothing more needs to be said about those disgusting scumbag bigots
they also steal children – its part of their belief that if you put a few drops of holy water on someone they are baptised for life
Excellent article. Also worth worrying about is the characterisation by the Catholic hierarchy of the ‘child-abusing priest problem’ as the ‘homosexual priest problem’, the solution to which has been to conduct a witch-hunt against gay priests worthy of the Inquisition, as homosexuality and paedophilia are conflated in the Catholic mind.
If Adrian doesn’t send it to every MP, for or against, then we can help by emailing or tweeting them ourselves. Why hasn’t Ben Summerskill stepped in I wonder? I find it very odd that there has been no response from StonewallUK.`
What fails to be mentioned is that the paedophilia scandal also involved young girls who were the targets of the supposedly heterosexual priests. It wasn’t just boys so the hierarchy really aren’t in a position to say it’s a homosexual priest problem. The reason why it appeared more homosexual in nature is that more boys were available to priests and probably hierarchy too. The amount of altar servers is overwhelmingly male after all.
By calling the child abuse problem a ‘homosexual problem’ the Catholics are making a simple error, failing to distinguish between sexual orientation, which is about gender, and child abuse, which is about age. Child abuse is not defined by the gender of those involved, but by age and the abuse of trust and power. I would like to see the BBC describe the ‘Jimmy Savile abuse scandal’ as a ‘heterosexual problem’ and start sacking all their heterosexual employees…
By calling the child abuse problem a ‘homosexual problem’ the Catholics are making a simple error, failing to distinguish between sexual orientation, which is about gender, and child abuse, which is about age. Child abuse is not defined by the gender of those involved, but by age and the abuse of trust and power. I doubt the BBC will describe the ‘Jimmy Savile abuse scandal’ as a ‘heterosexual problem’ and start sacking all their heterosexual employees…
There’s a simple confusion between sexual orientation and paedophilia which Catholics seem unwilling or unable to grasp. The former is defined in terms of gender, the latter in terms of age, and neither implies the other. We would not expect the BBC’s recent JS ‘difficulties’ to be described as a ‘heterosexual problem’ and to start sacking their heterosexual employees, yet the Catholics now seem to be hounding out gay priests, presumably leaving ‘heterosexual’ priests interested in molesting little girls free to carry on, once the scandal dies down…
Yep. And it’s about time some of its “followers” in the West actually stood up and told them so. Silence is acquiescence. You were silent over child abuse for too long, as well.
Yes-but will Cameron buckle under the onslaught?
Is equal marriage in the UK going to be defeated by the Roman Catholic Church?
Cameron is a politician.
He knows that most of Britain supports equality.
If he backs down on marriage equality he is acknowledging that the Tories are the same bigot scum they have always been.
The Tory base support is old and dying. Unless the Tories get into the 21st century then it is consigning itself to the dustbin of history (along with the cult of England – the almost dead official state religion).
No, he absolutely will not cave in to bigotry. The fact that the CoE and Wales will be banned from participating in equal marriage is proof of his determination to proceed. The catholic cult is a minority and always will be, thankfully. They can rant all they want, they’re going nowhere, in fact they’re helping to make themselves irrelevant by their irrational screeds and blatant hypocrisy. This from a cult with an appalling track record making so called ‘moral’ pronouncements about anything. In my view, the catholic hierarchy are immoral and all criminally complicit in the paedophilia cover-up and as such, morally bankrupt. Nichols is the biggest hypocrite of all. If that case involving paedophile Father Michael Hill several years ago hadn’t surfaced, Nichols would have continued his silence in the matter.
Much of the so called “Christian” bigotry centres around the myth that being gay is a “lifestyle choice”. This is entirely false. Being gay is no more a choice than being straight. Being “Christian” is a lifestyle choice. Maybe that is what should be banned?
The catholic church should be banned…PERIOD…They are the cancer on society….Biggoted, molesting priest telling society how to raise families…what a disgrace????It would be funny if not for the serious conquences that it leaves on society and the poor young boys the priest abuse daily in every country they are free to practise their only reason to exist…molest boys..
Then to think that the politicians set back and not say a word about this behaviour from the church is just as apalling…and even to take direction from those wearing silk dresses 24/7 as sound advice…politicians need to give their head a very serious shake….
True, but they also molested many girls yet that is never mentioned or just dismissed, not only by the media but by the Vatican.
In one respect Jimmy Savile’s vileness has helped underline the fact that most child abuse is ‘male on female’. I doubt the Catholics would call the ‘Jimmy Savile child abuse scandal’ a heterosexual scandal, as they are trying to pose the clergy abuse as a ‘homosexual problem’. If the BBC followed the RC’s logic, they’d be sacking all the heterosexuals there by now…
Such a fantastic, well constructed and conceived, interesting argument. This article is undoubtedly one of the best I’ve seen.
One thing though, Pink News… Why on earth did you choose to demean and devalue the piece with such an awful, cheesy, unrepresentative and sensationalist title?
Excellent, well written and well researched argument. This is one of the best articles on the subject I’ve read. Well done Mr. Tippetts!
Now, if there was a way to ensure a copy is nailed on the forehead of every Bishop, Priest and Cardinal, I’d be very happy. I’d even pay for a laminated copy to shove up the arse of the irritating old Ratzslapper himself.
Adrian Tippetts, I owe you a beer.
Great article, we need to teach children the difference between belief and facts. Education of adults and children is the only thing that will prevent this kind of bigotry. The funding & dissemination of hatred against gay people in Africa is a direct result of the missionaries from America. Homophobia is a western import to Africa to homosexuality as they claim. Unfortunately they truly believe that sexuality is a choice which is bizarre as if they were to think about their own sexuality they would know it is innate and not something that can be changed. My partner is African and we continue to campaign against homophobia in Africa. We are very lucky to be living in the UK – all of us. Make a New Years resolution to help our brothers and sisters around the world for they are killed, maimed, raped and excluded with the police either being active in this or turning a blind eye. Happy new year lets hope our fight for equal rights goes from strength to strength in 2013!
It should be highlighted as well that the Catholic Church does not accept or recognise the legal marriage of heterosexual people unless it is in a religious setting. Catholics are not allowed to masturbate or perform oral sex on themselves or even on their partner when married and contraception is prohibited yet same sex marriage rites existed in the catholic church for over 1000 years.
The catholic church is not a democracy yet it wants to influence our democratic society. It has a control over the conscience, emotions, social understanding and behaviour of hundred’s of thousands of people, more control than any politician, yet it ignores its responsibility through reinforcing medieval principles that are based on a need for control, ignorance and fear.
People are entitled to opinions and free speech, but people should not be entitled to exercise undue influence in such a harmful way: gay children, youth and adults are deeply scarred by this harmful group.
Eloquent and factual. Thanks you.
Amazingly thorough and beautifully eloquent! Thank you, Adrian!
I was brought up to believe let people believe in god if they want – but never at the cost of hating any person.
I am glad to see Adrian Tippetts mention, in an appropriately restrained way, that the Catholic church is playing a key part in an increasingly organised wave of global anti-LGBT hatred.
This appears already to have lead to increased anti-LGBT persecution by governments as well as extra-judicial violence. I fear that in the near future we may see even worse things.
Those Catholics who wish to change the church from within should bear in mind that it is not a democracy. How much have the laity influenced the church on birth control?
By all means tell your church how wrong it is about LGBT people. But don’t imagine this will change the church’s position, or even make it pause in its work of harming LGBTs.
The single biggest thing any Catholic can do to help is to leave the church, as noisily and publicly as possible.
And failing that, consider donating to charity rather than to the collection plate, money from which is sponsoring so much hatred, from NOM on.
The Catholic Church is an evil conniving organisation which would like to be dominating the world asit once did. It hates democracy, freedom of thought and tolerance and will only support these things if it judges them to be in the church’s interests. We should never underestimate its power or believe it is irrelevant – it has fought and lost the battle to stop gay marriage in Portugal and Spain, so now it is trying to stop it In the UK – it does not care whether the majority are in favour – the democratic wish of the people is nothing besides the wishes of the unelected Pope and cardinals – they will never give up!
Many thanks for the generous comments. Kris sie Pearse’s comment re the title is understandable and I wish I had had the time or ability to think on this. Nonetheless, the point about the justification for condemning the Catholic Church hierarchy for sir bigotry, and why it is justified to label it hate, remains. Rudehamster’s comment about a beer is excellent; make it a Fuller’s Celebration 1845 Ale, then. What better motivation could there be to think of more commentaries ;-) . Anyway, let’s make 2013 a year when reasoned arguments win out over prejudice and nonsense.
Thanks Adrien, and all the best to you and your loved ones in 2013.
Adrian, well done and thank you. Have you considered sending it to all MPs and Lords? What about the Guardian, Times and Evening Standard?
Thank you Robert, That is quite a logistical exercise! It’s a good idea. You are most welcome to help out with such an initiative too.
Your piece is wonderful and similar to how I feel.
I have lived with my partner for the past 8 years.
Both of us coming from Scotland in pursuit of work.
Unfortunately his Catholic from birth indoctrination is complete.
No matter how much I show him what this cult thinks of him, I’m the bad guy.
He refuses to believe the poison that this unreasonable rich church spews.
To him it is a comfort, and he will no doubt visit his dead parents in whichever structure
in the made up heaven these priests pumped into his head.
Reality tends to pass by.
I really think you should publish this piece from the rafters, I’m also aware that much more on this vile group could be added.
Buy your partner the book ‘the velvet rage’ by Alan down. This book will open his eyes…
Child Rape:Whatever ~~~ Gays, Birth-control, civil rights: HELL NO
Bravo Adrian you have very eloquently expressed what I have always felt and I am grateful to you!
beatiflly written, eloqently expressed and simply argued article, Adrian. It shold be used in jornalism schoools on how to do it right.
When I read something this good, I’m less worried about or ability to reach equality.
Even though our side doesn’t have the screamers shouting out from the rooftops on this issue (kind of surprising – given the constant cartoon stereotypes ascribed to all of us), we do have people like Adrian who can use cool, rational and inarguable logic to demolish the knicker-waving flummery exhibited by the people who oppose us.
I actually stood up and clapped this article – it was a magnificent restorative after all the tripe written on Telegraph, Mail, Guardian and Huffington Post websites.
Thank you for this, Adrian. I don’t know what all your wishes are for 2013, but I hope they’re all realised a thousandfold.
Thank you again – and a very Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year.
also, apologies for the typos – the ‘u’ key on my keyboard keeps sticking
Thankyou for a clear and concise summary of what the RCC would like to happen. I believe that Western Europe is lost to them.
Well done- Jews for centuries now gays! The cahtolic church cannot exisit without hating some group or other.
How sad they cannot preach love eve at Christmas time.
Adrian Tippetts is a heterophobe.
Because he wants gays to have the same rights as you? Is that why you call him a heterophobe? Giving someone else equal rights does not infringe or take away rights from you, you know that right?
Don’t enable this loser. He’s a deeply closeted self-loather, that’s why he comes in here. No well adjusted hetero would even bother.
Explain that statement. You can’t, can you.
No he isn’t but you are a gobshite troll.
Throughout history marriage has changed, developed; during the so called dark age it was used to accumilate wealth and power, it was for kings and barons, not for the poor. Today its for people expressing their love for each other. It grieves me to say the pope is yet again marginalising a large group of people by his homophobic rantings: Jesus gave His apostels authority to proclaim the Good News, God’s Infinite Love for all people, His followers were maginalised people, women, the poor and marginalised women and men. As a gay man and catholic ( I will not use the word roman) I’m in good company.
Pope Benedict signalled the Vatican’s intention to work with other religions to stop marriage equality, claiming the family was threatened “to its foundations” by attempts to change its “true structure”.
Marriage must be in a very weakened position, if two Lesbian or two gay men, who love each other; can in the eyes of the pope and curia, threaten the heterosexua family, or change
He is right they are no longer the religious leaders but possessed by Satan to spread hate and destruction about minorities they do not like.
Satan does not and never has existed.
It was simply a tool to drum fear into the uneducated and gullible in order to enrich themselves.
Very true, Dave…
But red is such a becoming colour!
given their recent stance on these issues i would love to formally renounce the faith i was born into but, alas, they have changed their laws to stop you doing this.
once a catholic…
The church should lose it’s tax exempt status. LGBT should rally against all non inclusive churches on tax status. See how they live paying tax for their bigotry!
Marriage is a goverment approved and licences endevour.
Marriage Licences provided by the Govt not the Church give you social benefits.
The Church gives you nothing for it’s immortaily against LGBT
The Church has no business in Marriage! NONE!
FRAK THE BIGOTED CHURCH!
The following hate-fuelled booklets are distributed in the UK by the Catholic Church via http://www.cts-online.org.uk/acatalog/info_DO707.html
The “word for word” content of these booklets are documented in full within the following official vatican webpage: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html
Below, I have quoted from the aforementioned official vatican booklet that is distributed in the UK via the Catholic Church, titled “CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION TO UNIONS BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS”.
I have quoted a section (there are many) that I find particularly hate fuelled :
“Those who would move from tolerance to the legitimization of specific rights for cohabiting homosexual persons need to be reminded that the approval or legalization of EVIL is something far different from the toleration of EVIL”
The vatican appear to be dictating what politicians do. Whatever happened to a “free vote”?
IV. POSITIONS OF CATHOLIC POLITICIANS WITH REGARD TO LEGISLATION IN FAVOUR OF HOMOSEXUAL UNIONS
10. If it is true that all Catholics are obliged to oppose the legal recognition of homosexual unions, Catholic politicians are obliged to do so in a particular way, in keeping with their responsibility as politicians. Faced with legislative proposals in favour of homosexual unions, Catholic politicians are to take account of the following ethical indications.
When legislation in favour of the recognition of homosexual unions is proposed for the first time in a legislative assembly, the Catholic law-maker has a moral duty to express his opposition clearly and publicly and to vote against it. To vote in favour of a law so harmful to the common good is gravely immoral.
When legislation in favour of the recognition of homosexual unions is already in force, the Catholic politician must oppose it in the ways that are possible for him and make his opposition known; it is his duty to witness to the truth. If it is not possible to repeal such a law completely, the Catholic politician, recalling the indications contained in the Encyclical Letter Evangelium vitae, “could licitly support proposals aimed at limiting the harm done by such a law and at lessening its negative consequences at the level of general opinion and public morality”, on condition that his “absolute personal opposition” to such laws was clear and well known and that the danger of scandal was avoided. This does not mean that a more restrictive law in this area could be considered just or even acceptable; rather, it is a question of the legitimate and dutiful attempt to obtain at least the partial repeal of an unjust law when its total abrogation is not possible at the moment.
if “free thinking” politicians were to be made aware of this hate-fuelled document (on a party scale rather than individual politicians), then perhaps they would “think for themselves” rather than bow to hate groups who threaten to thwart civil rights – such as the catholic church??
It is deeply disturbing that the catholic church has a manifesto to interfere directly with goverment.
Thanks, once again, for your excellent article
Thank you very much, John.
You’re most welcome.
I know a former gay man (more than 1) , messed up by Catholicism and now a priest… Therefore , I can source policy from inside…
David slew goliath once before…… fingers crossed that history repeats itself..
After reading the following quote from aforementioned Vatican document , are the catholic party actually acknowledging that they are happy to ‘conscientiously object’ to legal unions (civil marriage) AND will not require to marry gays (just as they currently and successfully refuse to marry divorced heterosexual people), THEN surely catholic party is creating much ado about nothing with their bkatant hatred towards civil rights? Their freedom to preach to their own flock will be maintained as inedible….
`In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty. One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection.
Oops… above sentence should have read ‘position to preach to their own flock and freedom of religion will always be maintained by government proposals to instruct equal civil marriage’….
Please remove ‘as inedible’ (predictive text error)
The pope is a schismatic, therefore has no authority over Christians.
Such a thorough, great summary of everything. I had to post a link to this on Google+
sono d’accordo con tutto ciò che adrian tippets dice. come italiano so cosa vuole dire essere gay in un paese latino, ma la cosa orrenda per me è leggere che anche nei paesi anglosassoni si sta diffondendo una forte omofobia. la religione è la causa di tutto, magari anche se non solo. di certo se vogliamo parlare di religione credo che le religioni calvinista e luterana siano quelle più laiche del continente e che i paesi in europa più democratici siano belgio olanda danimarca e penisola scandinava…gli altr iormai son oasserviti alle leggi omofobe ed economiche delle lobby repressive dei paesi capitalisti….kisses carlo
English translation of the above is:
I agree with everything you say adrian tippets. as an Italian, I know what it means to be gay in a Latin country, but the horrible thing for me is to read that even in Anglo-Saxon countries is spreading a strong homophobia. religion is the cause of everything, maybe even more. certainly if we want to talk about religion I think the Calvinist and Lutheran religions are the most secular of the continent and the most democratic countries in Europe are Belgium Holland Denmark and Scandinavia … both of the other iormai oasserviti laws are homophobic and economic lobbies of repressive capitalist countries …. kisses carlo
Excellent article. And thank you for putting it in such a clear and concise manner.
Seems like a good time indeed to remind (our) governments that secularity and civil law is all we really need to function as people in a civilised society to be happy.
It’s rich to complain about dissent considering that gays reject any possibility of anyone disagreeing with their sexual behaviors. Accusing dissenters of bigotry is reminiscent of the sorts of taunts used by he Nazis and communists against their opponents. Accusations of bigotry have one goal — dehumanizing and suppressing dissent. Then we are told that we should look to the moral example of chimps as a reason why homosexual sex should be sanctioned by the state. If we do that then maybe we should legalize all sorts of chimp behaviors. Gays want one thing – a society where everyone is controlled by their genitals rather than by their intellects.
I have quoted a section (there are many) that I find particularly hate fuelled :
Keep the faith with is personal and never seeks to influence; to hell with religion which is not a positive influence on any society…. the difference is often ignored. Ssecularism is the way forward.
“Democracy demands that the religiously motivated must translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific values. Their proposals must be subject to argument and reason, and should not be accorded any undue automatic respect”.
– President Barack Obama
Religion has no right to prohibit civil rights … substitute black or Jew for gay… do u still wish your evil upon blacks or Jews ?
Oh this is coming from a particularly irritating homophobe I found on Twitter. He’s a priest.
He told me that this article was ‘filled with inacuracies’. The stupid, blind, kiddy-fiddling fool. Refused to come off the fence re his opinion on homosexuality, but he does now, whilst remaining anonymous. You can get him on @exsacerdotal. His idiot friend can be found at @GeorgLaing
…and your boss, Herr Ratslapper, should know a thing or two about Nazis.
ExsacerdotalI, I asked you how a soldier could become a priest, but it appears you’re only following in your Father’s goosesteps.
Silencing you?! All we ever hear from your clerics – who don’t remotely represent your flocks on this matter, by the way – is their obsession with how genitals go together, and in which position. . Your pope and bishops think the best source of information on relationships comes from the 13th century, based on nothing more than personal contemplation, ignoring the reality which every natural observation tells us: homosexuality is innate, it is a form of love, and that same sex couples are doing quite fine, and in thousands of cases, so are their children. Your bishops tell lies and preach nonsense. You must expect your beliefs to be treated with ridicule as a result. How can the richest and one of the most powerful organisations on the planet be able to dissent, especially as the Vatican position on marriage is the established one? Or are we redefining ‘dissent’ now?
Sadly everything you say is absolutely true. Pope Vicious 16th.
I remember when Oz hosted World Youth Day and then-PM Kevin Rudd quoted a figure for the amount of Catholics in Oz. Being a demographics nerd, I was really curious about where the hugely inflated figures had come from, and then went about making sure I was struck from the record. In Australia at least, the Catholic Church was quick to send along confirmation of my defection from the faith (I just posted the letter I wrote on doomharker.tumblr if anyone wants to use it).
Brilliant Article Well said
STOP this anti Catholic bollock rubbish. If you cannot properly understand the Catholic Churches teaching on LGBT then please refrain from spreading more HATE into the world by your bigoted views that clearly scream ignorance.
Go read the Catechism of the CatholicChurch as regards its teachings. Get the REAL facts on what the Pope did and did not do before you jump on your drama shuttle of imaginary fairy tales.
STOP the HATE and see the LOVE that Catholics represent. And we stand by our leader. And always will. So get your facts right or zip it.
Don’t worry, the pope is a schismatic, therefore has no authority over Christians.
get a life or read the Bible!!
If a Church doesn’t follow or believe the Bible it isn’t a Church is it -simple really. You cannot remove bits and pieces just because YOU don’t agree with them.
What you lot want is everything your own way.
Anyone who doesn’t agree with you for VALID reasons is slagged and abused, but we mustn’t slag or abuse you because its a hate crime.
I don’t really care what your church believes or ot, so long as it doesn’t involve me. Your beliefs n sexual orientation are based on 13th century, creationist philosophy, thought up at a time when there was no knowledge about the human mind,,psychology, or how nature works. St Thomas Aquinas could be excused for this. You, living today, 200 years after Darwin, with all the evidence of LGBT couples living and thriving with families, have no such excuse. You are asking not just for the right to hold your beliefs, which no ne is taking away from you, but for them to be respected. Well, they deserve ridicule. Get used to it, and debate like an adult rather than a petulant child. Peace!
PS Do you think it is ever a good thing to ‘slag or abuse’ others? What a fine example of Christian Love you show!!!
You clearly are a revolting hate-fuelled individual and you prove the point of my article perfectly. Thank you.
Chrissie2. I try and be a reasonable person and see things from all sides and every viewpoint. I am gay, I am an atheist, but I am trying to read the bible to get an understand of where Christianity is coming from on this and have tried to engage with a number of people on social media (primarily Twitter as they seem quite vocal there)
I have been reasonable and just face a wall, and the usual steadfast answer of it is God’s and the bibles teaching. I cannot see this as a reasoned answer for two reasons.
1) even the little of the bible I have read I fail to see it’s relevance in modern society or even modern religion.
2) You like many say you follow the bible, but you don’t. You only follow that which you want to and ignore the ludicrous parts. Only you fail to see the parts about homosexuality as ludicrous too, which they are.
There are many reasoned people in the church who I would not dream of calling bigotted, sadly a number of people like yourself who are.
I am a reasonable man, so I refuse to pertain to a book (written by men with an agenda) that is used to condemn, when the whole premise of religion was originally established to create civility and spiritual comfort.
I don’t believe that chrissie2 has read any of the bible. I believe that she is regurgitating the attitudes of other hateful people who lost the meaning of God a long time ago.
Our fight for acceptance is percieved by you as abusing your dissent? Your dissent does nothing to lift anyone up and has documented damage to many people’s lives.
You should be ashamed, I know God would be.
“same-sex relationships are demonstrably harmful to the medical, emotional and spiritual wellbeing of those involved, no compassionate society should ever enact legislation to facilitate or promote such relationships…” Yes it may be harmful, but not because we’re gay but because a lot of us had been told how monstrous gays are from childhood by bigoted parents, priests and teachers.
I don’t think I’m alone who had been rape by an heterosexual brother. Other had been rape by father, priests and teachers. and it is us who are been insulted and treated like we’re sick or monstrous ? Those priests and that pope should have sexual activities and realized how human they are. Maybe they will stop being jealous of other’s sexual life.
Im afraid that a younger, more friendly looking Pope will be even worse than him..and have even more pseudo science like that of Paul Cameron and his ilk spread..like the rubbish about younger deaths in gay people..they counted gay men in obituaries..is that scientific..no..load of bollocks yes..but its like owt else they repeat it over and over[like traditional family is best] and people will believe them :(
If the just replace him with someone like him they are continuing on their own path of being doomed to fall and fail. May they do so as hastily as possible.
Thanks for this article and your reporting. What you do is appreciated.
I posted it to my LGBT Group on LinkedIn with over 18,000+ global members to spur members to read your article and to make comment. I also scooped it at Scoop.It on my LGBT Times news mashup.
Link to group >> http://www.linkedin.com/groups/LGBT-Gay-GLBT-Professional-Network-63687/about
All LGBT+ and community allies…. please come join me and 18,000+ of your soon to be great connections on LinkedIn. The member base represents 80% of the world’s countries.
It’s core value is – Visibility can lead to awareness which can lead to equality. Come stand with us and increase our visibility on the globe’s largest professional networking site. Be a professional who just happens to be LGBT – or a welcomed community ally.
God is not about hate or segregation. The church has been an abuser of society in turning larger groups against smaller ones and agitating nations to war for centuries.
God has nothing but shame for their “institution” and our intelectual evolution is leading us away from their control. Good by and good ridence to the church.
Well said, well written, an outstanding and insightful piece of work, my deepest respect :)
Yahoo groups for GALHA (Gay and Lesbian Hunanist Association) and Gaytheist are good places for LGBT people, who’ve had enough of superstition.