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Turkish gay fashion designer receives bloody nose in Istanbul attack

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  1. Turkey should never join the EU. Their human rights record is comparable to Uganda, there is nothing European in this military dictatorship. Shame on them!

    1. GulliverUK 28 Dec 2012, 5:01pm

      Not never, but not any time soon. They have a very long way to go before coming close to achieving what is required in terms of human rights for their own citizens.

      1. Gulliver, as I’m sure you know, Turkey is officially a secular state, but the vast majority of its population is devoutly Muslim. And, as the article very lightly implies, in recent years the Turkish government has deliberately caused the secularity of the country to be weakened. In other words, the Turkish government has passed various pieces of legislation in recent years that have intensified Islamic control in Turkey.

        If Turkey were ever permitted to become a member of the EU, Europe would become home to many more zealous Muslims than are at work Islamizing Europe already. We must never forget that several hundred years ago the Turks once controlled the entire Mediterranean except for Italy, France, and Spain.

        1. GulliverUK 28 Dec 2012, 6:58pm

          Nice history lesson, and I understand the point, but my only concern is their acts of hostility towards the LGBT community, as monitored and reported on by various EU-related rights groups, such as ILGA and UN Human Rights Committee. They recognise there are very serious problems which Turkey must tackle in regards the treatment of their own LGBT citizens.

          Here is one example;

          Until they meet the minimum requirements they should not be admitted – there are already too many inside, and in the Council of Europe, who don’t meet the minimum requirements, like Russia for example.

    2. commonsense 3 Jan 2013, 12:41am

      as opposed to the USA & the UK’s ‘great record ‘ on human rights ? the hypocrisy never fails to amaze me .

  2. GingerlyColors 28 Dec 2012, 4:37pm

    Turkey is almost unique in that it is situated at the crossroads between the liberal West and the Muslim East. While most Turks support the secular state as enshrined in the country’s constitution which allows Islam to be practiced as a religion but not politically, I fear that the number of Turks who favour an Islamic Republic is growing year by year. Prior to the Revolution of 1979 Iran was much like Turkey but in one fell swoop became the cesspit it is now. I fear that Turkey could one day end up the same way as Iran and gays would get a lot worse than just a bloody nose. Please tell me that I am wrong.

    1. Most unfortunately, you are not wrong. The rabid growth of Islam id Turkey is undoing all the civilising advances Atatürk made in the early part of the last century when he separated religion and state.
      Their chances of joining the EU are, I dearly hope, extremely thin.

    2. As Cal has already said, you are most certainly NOT wrong, GingerlyColors. I have studied Turkey a great deal in recent years.

  3. Its sad and depressing. Maybe he should seek asylum in Europe.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 28 Dec 2012, 5:07pm

      Yes, he should but no use trying to come to the UK. He’ll be told to go back and keep a low profile or the authorities will say they are not convinced he’s really gay.

      1. Suddenly Last Bummer 30 Dec 2012, 1:25pm

        I can’t imagine you come across many asylum seekers in South Ken do you Robert?

    2. Suddenly Last Bummer 30 Dec 2012, 1:26pm

      Well he’d be one of the few asylum seekers to come to the UK who actually had a career.

  4. Why take comfort in the thought that being denied membership of the EU will be sufficient encouragement for Turkey to redress its rampant homophobia ? and what support does that give Turkish LGBTQ in the fight against homophobia ? Greece, that well known member of the EU, has reported a huge rise in queerbashing carried out in the main by it’s fascist Golden Dawn party. UKIP is fast becoming the UK’s 4 political party and is endemically homophobic. Yes queerbashing must be met with resistance. However, believing that resistance is just a matter of EU membership or the blame can be placed on the growth of Islam and the decline in what seems to be considered by some as liberal Christian/Orthodox values trivializes vicious homophobic attacks like the one on Şansal. Furthermore it provides no international response to combatting homophobia

    1. I think it would be foolish of the EU to play a game with Turkey whereby Turkey is offered the possibility of EU membership provided it treats its LGBTI community better! As you appear to know, life for LGBTIs in neighbouring Christian and EU-member Greece continues to be dreadful. (I have several close gay friends in Greece and their plight is little different from that of Arab gay friends I knew in the Middle East.)

      In my opinion, Turkey can never be permitted membership of the EU because its culture is based almost entirely on devout Islam and its tenets. It’s up to liberals and LGBTIs in Turkey to improve the situation there, in just the same way that young people in Iran and Egypt, etc., must demand change. The answer is not allowing them all free passes into Europe.

      1. GulliverUK 28 Dec 2012, 7:04pm

        Then it will either not be let in, or will have to find a way to create a tolerant and accepting version of Islam instead. There are minimum standards and nobody should be admitted until they have demonstrated all the change required. Obviously we would all have a totally secular government and then allow religious freedom for worship, and the usual protections. Why can they note have a secular government there, LGBT protections and religious freedom to worship as we have. The fact they will be mostly following Islam rather than Christianity shouldn’t matter – we have people following Islam here, and they don’t get to interfere with LGBT rights, or to discriminate.

        They could do it if they a) wanted and b) tried.

        1. Gulliver, I feel pretty certain that you have not lived and worked amongst Muslims in a Muslim country for any extended period of time. Go and give it a go. If you do it and avoid safe Western enclaves and truly try to mix in, you’ll be astounded at the amount you learn and you’ll be so grateful you did it.

          1. @ Eddy

            Your extensive journeys in Muslim countries added to your continued studies of Islam does give you an advantaged perspective, and thank you for sharing.

            In the event that these thugs are identified, i doubt they will be brought to justice. In fact, according to Sharia, they will likely be rewarded, another indication that secularism in Turkey is being extinguished as we speak.

          2. Turkey secularism never really worked or was very popular ! I suspect that Gays were excluded from judical persecution simply because AtaTurk was gay ! Whether we like it or not the “Islamic” states are going to increasingly follow sharia . It would be helpful if gay commentators refrained from identifying sharia with Islam . Islam is the submission to Allah ; Sharia is a system of law based apon eridite scholarship of the sacred texts . . . .it and its application as civil “law” is more or less independent from Allah ! and his inspiration which is at the centre of Islam ! Sharia is the work of cannonists like the West”s Gratiano of Bologna or the 14 century concilarists . . . .Its not Allah will . It was in fact a preemminent cause of the corruption and decline of the Ottomans !

        2. how many gay people are working in mosque then GulliverUK?

          Of this group discriminates just other other faiths.

          Wjat a disgrace to do this to another person – I wish you well Barbaros.

          1. None.

            They are usually strung from cranes or shot.

          2. as opposed to how many gays or at least openly gay ones are embraced by christians and other religions .
            ignorance knows no boundaries when it comes to you hey .

      2. so your comments are merely driven by your utter hatred of muslims it appears to me . so what is the difference then between you and the hateful homophobes then ? the world could do with much more intelligent arguments in 2013 and less hatred i should think .

  5. Agree the EU shoiuld NEVER have allowed Turkey to join

    1. They didn’t.

    2. the ignorance !!

  6. Christopher in Canada 29 Dec 2012, 12:10am

    You can’t go back to Constantinople…

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