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Church of England: We weren’t consulted over the government’s same-sex marriage ban

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  1. Dear C of E,

    Oddly, they didn’t consult Robert Mugabe, either. Know why?

    Well, because, like you, he’s doesn’t want to be involved at any level with equal marriage.

    Do you see how it works, now? Keep saying “I don’t want anything to do with this!” and people will cheerfully assume you mean it.

    Have a really nice day!

    Love
    Sasha

  2. Oh for god’s sake! What on earth are they fussing about?! First they whined about being forced to marry same sex couples and kept whining even when they were reassured they wouldn’t have to, and now, when legislation’s being proposed that makes it absolutely certain they won’t have to they whinge about not being consulted!

    Why would they have to be consulted? They made their position clear every moment they could.

    So maybe they don’t like being marked out as different? Well, start acting like you’re in the 21st century then, C of E, and then you can join the rest of us in a world where people aren’t legally discriminated against because of their gender or sexuality.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 14 Dec 2012, 1:53pm

      I think Lord Carey made the CoE’s position very clear don’t you, as did Sentamu and Williams prior to, during and after the consultation? They demanded guarantees and protections and that’s exactly what Maria Miller gave them. Consultation wasn’t necessary. If they’re now back-tracking on the issue, then why haven’t they stated the reasons for a consultation? There was nothing more to discuss since they made their opinions and demands known for months. I suspect they’ve come to the realisation that they will now be in isolation along with their Catholic counterparts, irrelevant, a diminishment of their power by default actually. This could easily pave the way for disestablishment, the one thing they fear most and they will have been complicit in their own demise because of their obstinate refusal to face reality. Their power and influence are in steady decline. It’s too late for them.

      I don’t know if it’s me, but I’ve not heard any rebuttals by those pesky Tory back benchers.

    2. Jock S. Trap 14 Dec 2012, 2:26pm

      Indeed Iris, we just can’t win with them.

      I guess this is what happens when those that scream bigotry louder within the church, it will be taken for granted that someone will voice their disagreement too but instead it seems waited for others to start first. Now they complain.

      I guess it’s now up to Them to go out and make a difference but I think they should allow this legislation through first, let them squabble about it afterwards.

      At the end of the day it’s the extremists with their own religion they need to fight against, not the government.

    3. Hint: They don’t all agree with each other.

    4. billywingargtenson 15 Dec 2012, 7:48am

      REaly interesting hypothesis, or is this just another way to appear tolerant while the church hierarchy is mostly very intolerant.

      Lies, damn lies and church lies.

  3. Aw, shame. They don’t like being the made the odd man out. Boo hoo. The C of E can’t get out of the their own cage whilst every other church and religion can come and go as they please.

  4. It must be exceptionally frustrating for all those people within the Church of England and the Church of Wales who DO support marriage equality, and hope that one day the rest of the church will join the 21st century.

    1. Indeed. Perhaps they should break away to form an unestablished modern and progressive church.

    2. Perhaps those within these churches who think GBLT people deserve equal rights should stop supporting an institution that constantly oppresses us and form or join different churches

      Until then, I have no time for the “frustration” of people who contribute to the battle against my rights

    3. Robert in S. Kensington 14 Dec 2012, 1:38pm

      Well, where were they during the consultation? I didn’t hear any resounding support and they didn’t exactly seem to be bothering their clergy about it, let alone the hierarchy. Complacency doesn’t work it seems. It serves them right and I have no sympathy for them even if they are supportive. You just can’t sit back and do nothing and expect things to happen the way you want them to.

  5. Helen Wilson 14 Dec 2012, 12:37pm

    Dear C of E

    Thank the arch bigot of York and Lord Carey for you’re exclusion from marriage equality plans.

    Yours sincerely

    The people of England, NI, Wales and Scotland.

  6. Don’t believe the CofE. On the 11th they were perfectly happy with it (except allow equal marriage at all of course)

    http://jaekaygoesforth.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/the-church-of-england-equalmarriage-and.html

  7. The christo-fascist control freaks are whinging because they can’t get their own way. Hoisted by own petard springs to mind!

    1. They’re whinging because they didn’t want legal protection at all – they wanted to force their will on the rest of the country and they’re worried at how irrelevant they’re becoming.

      1. Robert in S. Kensington 14 Dec 2012, 6:11pm

        It’s quite a very bold move by the government and by no means mean-spirited or ill-intended. What it has done essentially is to diminish the power of the CoE and sent it singularly into isolation where it will remain forever, hopefully, or just become extinct. I would love to have been a fly on the wall when Maria Miller was discussing these radical moves to seal their fate on this issue. I can’t imagine she and those involved weren’t aware of the implications and what they would signify. I take my hat off to her.

  8. Didums!

  9. Not nice being singled out and demonised is it? That’s exactly what the proposed ban is already doing to the CofE because of their rampant and unjustifiable discrimination of LGBTs.

    What goes around comes around.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 14 Dec 2012, 5:59pm

      Now they know what it feels like to be marginalised, singled out. Good!

  10. Maybe if they hadn’t spent the last several months – no years – screaming bigotry at gay people, opposing every right we’ve fought for, and spouting some of the more horrendous hatred into the papers and the media as a whole – maybe then I’d have sympathy

    But what did they expect? They spew so much hateful rhetoric about us, any reasonable person would expect them to be happy about this!

    1. Sister Mary Clarence 14 Dec 2012, 2:18pm

      Absolutely, you reap what you so and all that.

      Be careful what you wish for also springs to mind.

      As does “tough sh1t” ….

  11. They have really snookered themselves, both with this and women bishops- having shown how irrelevent they are to Britain in the 21st Century, they’ve been neatly side-lined. As said above, it’s a shame for the many forward-thinking Anglicans, though.

  12. The church had no reason to be involved in it. We are talking human rights and laws

  13. Perhaps I misheard, but I don’t think they were banned?

    Religious groups would have to opt-in an organisational level then individual ministers would also have to opt in.

    Or am I wrong in how I’ve read it?

    1. The C of E and C of Wales were specifically banned from performing same sex marriages. Other churches, etc, can opt-in if they choose to.

  14. “He also reportedly said the COE had not sought the quadruple lock.”

    Great! So, now the government can delete it from the bill. Problem solved.

  15. Last time the government sought to control the church with respect to marriage, the CofE was born. Will this time cause yet another split, between those who follow Christ’s teachings of love, and those who are afraid to lose cis-hetero priviledge?
    The CofE never was a single voice, so don’t tar them all with the same brush. In the end, Christianity is supposed to be the teachings of Jesus, not of the CofE or the Catholic church.
    Perhaps those so called Christians who take pride in their condemnation of the LGBT community should perhaps look to their own “abominations”, like lobster, prawn, crab, cheeseburgers, mixed fabrics, or maybe nursing people with communicable diseases, or allowing a menstruating woman to enter a church… Yeah, I didn’t think so…
    My own local church (not CofE) is, in my experience, not so hateful, but maybe I’m just lucky to be white and middle class and haven’t noticed it yet.

  16. Perhaps I misheard, but I don’t think they were banned?

    Religious groups would have to opt-in an organisational level then individual ministers would also have to opt in.

    Or am I wrong in how I’ve read it?

    1. Yes you’re wrong. It will be made illegal (as well as against canon law) for the CofE & the church of Wales to conduct SS marriages, not other churches. I wonder what the penalty will be for breaking the law? Would it be a criminal or civil offence I wonder? If some dodgy vicar illegally conducts a SS wedding in church, who would be the victim of this crime?….

      1. In that case is it just a clever political manoeuvre? By banning them they have been forced to say they’re ok with it and don’t want to be banned.

      2. Robert in S. Kensington 14 Dec 2012, 1:41pm

        If any vicar illegaly conducted an SSM, he or she would face losing his or her job. We already know there are some supportive clergy but few of them have the courage to take a stand with their hierarchy for fear of reprisals. Three or four of the bishops in the House of Lords support us but they’ll probably have to vote no under orders from Welby. Pure cowardice! I’ve lost all respect for them.

        1. plus the marriage would be invalid.

    2. Robert in S. Kensington 14 Dec 2012, 1:43pm

      There is an opt-in ban. The only way to opt back in would have to be agreed upon by a majority among the hierarchy and a change in canon law. Parliament would then have to approve the change I believe.

      1. Correct! So let the rest of us get on with our lives enjoying the equality to which we have a right and let the CofE and other homophobes self-destruct with their pathetic hand-wringing. Personally, I hope they disappear into the mists of history. After all, the Cof E wouldn’t even exist if Henry 8th hadn’t wanted to circumvent the exact-same sancified ritual they are trying to prevent us from enjoying. Their hypocricy and selective memory is breathtaking.

  17. This just gets funnier. Never has so much humiliation been so well deserved.

  18. I’ve said it before … I think the government have played a blider with this! “OK, CofE .. if you want to take your ball home, you can …. but you will NEVER be allowed to play with us again”. (pun intended). By specifically excluding the CofE, the bigots within will become increasingly marginalised and the liberals, angrier. Who’ll win? Hopefully, the public and all anti-gay religions will vanish.

  19. Robert in S. Kensington 14 Dec 2012, 1:59pm

    Didn’t they say they were comfortable with the decision less than 48 hours ago? Too damned bad, I say, they got what they wanted, don’t really like it and can’t stand the fact that they’ve been pushed into a corner from which they can’t get out. I dare any of them and their Tory back benchers to scream “abuse of religious freedom”. The tables have been turned on them at last. Three cheers for Maria Miller, job well done!

  20. Jock S. Trap 14 Dec 2012, 2:21pm

    Sorry but this has happened because those that oppose have screamed the loudist while those in the CofE that disagree with those extremist have been complacent and not tried to be just as vocal.

    I do appreciate that the media in this is also at fault for taking side and only promoting those who speak like bigots.

    Surely now is the time to voice their opinions and be heard.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 14 Dec 2012, 5:56pm

      There has also been a lot of complacency from those in support I might add. Rarely have any one of them countered the bigotry and spurious comments from the opposition except for Sir Peter Bottomley a few days ago by condemning Colin Hart and his C4m hate group directly. There should have been a lot more of it before the government announced the opt-in ban, far more.

  21. The C of E (at least some of them ) would have been delighted with being banned from conducting SSM. if all other religious bodies had also been banned . What they really don’t like is other denominations that want to conduct SSM being given the freedom to do so.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 14 Dec 2012, 7:58pm

      Exactly, because it’s exposed just how bigoted they really are. This new piece of legislation only emphasises it even more. Tough titty! Karma can be a bitch at times.

  22. “And the bill will explicitly state that it would be illegal for the Church of England and the Church in Wales to marry gay couples, or to opt-in to do so.”

    THIS MAKE NO SENSE.

    1. That There Other David 14 Dec 2012, 4:43pm

      Ah, but you have to have faith!! I’m sure it’ll all make sense then ;-)

  23. The CofE didn’t get to drag every other church down with them and now they’re standing the corner alone. Serves them right for painting themselves into it in the first place. They’ll need an act of parliament now to change the law they’ve been singled out for special treatment with. I wonder if it’ll be a free vote of conscience.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 14 Dec 2012, 5:52pm

      A free conscience vote would really put the Tory back bencher bigots in a bind because if they voted yes, they’d really show just how bigoted they were all along. My only hope would be that the majority would vote no to be mean-spirited just as the CoE has been mean-spirited about this entire issue.

      Has anyone noticed the silence from the C4M hate group? Not a word of support for the opt-in ban or one word of praise. I wonder why?

  24. Perhaps the recent days have seen poetic justice for the CoE, their reaction is now becoming like those of a petulant child who is trying to double talk a distasteful punishment after the parents remind them “Ah Ah Ah, but you said!”

    The unfortunate aspect is now the liberal thinkers like Dr. Morgan and Bishop of Buckingham who are wise with their words and wish to change… are only doing so after the fact!!

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 14 Dec 2012, 6:04pm

      Poetic justice indeed! I’m relishing it! Now they’ll know what it’s like to have their bluff called. I don’t think they quite bargained for something so far reaching as this, a quadruple lock no less, who would have thought? Let us rejoice that they’ve been served their just desserts, so richly deserved. Seconds anyone?10

  25. ‘I hate bananas. They’re disgusting and wrong and nobody should ever be allowed to eat them.’

    ‘Ok. As you’ve protested so much, we’ll pass a law protecting you from ever having to eat a banana.’

    ‘Ohhh… but now I wanna…’

    = The Church of England’s stance.

  26. Um. Excuse me the CofE -WAS- consulted. It spent all it’s time strongly demanding that anyone and everyone in Britain be 110% banned from having gay marriages.
    Now the CofE finds out that it has got what it wants, exactly what it submitted to the consultation, a strong and secure prohibition written into law, just for speshul little them. And all they do is complain like a kid which has just had it’s candy stolen.

    By far the most laughable, almost offensive, thing about this story was that the CofE only knew the government’s response to the consultation when the government made it’s official announcement giving said response. As though they’re above the government of this country? They should have priority in legislative matters? What?
    Every pro-equality religious group only knew they were going to have permission to carry out marriages when the government made it’s official announcement, yet they are nowhere near as upset about the government’s decision to allow exactly that.

  27. It is improper for Parliament to legislate for the Church of Wales (it was disestablished in 1920), and that aspect of this could be appealed under human rights provisions.
    The CoE frankly deserves everything it gets. If you are desperate to keep the Queen as your Supreme Head and you make a persistent nuisance of yourself, don’t stamp your foot if her ministers (as is their constitutional right) hamstring you with uncongenial laws.
    Much healthier and more honest to request Disestablishment. Not holding my breath.

  28. Theyre never bloody happy. Now they are safe and sound behind their quadruple legal locks.. cant be forced to do anything they don’t want and are even protected from the chance that someone might try to force them.. because its illegal for them to do.. AND THEY ARE STILL NOT HAPPY.. good grief! I think dementia has set in…

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