What a terrible judgement!
The judge should be disbarred for for making such a terrible, ill informed decision.
the problem with the American legal system is, anyone can be appointed a judge. You don’t actually have to have any legal experience to become a judge. Which is why we continuously see such ridiculous judgments coming out of American courts.
Free speech is a red herring when you’re dealing with debunked quackery.
The only part which should matter is “Does this therapy work acording to peer reviewed data?” and on that measure even Exodus has been forced to concede defeat.
How can anyone think this therapy is either necessary or effective when even some “ex-gay” councillors have been caught lifting luggage?
If it walks like a quack and ducks the issue like a quack, it’s a quack.
Judge William Shubb ruled that the First Amendment rights of psychiatrists, psychologists and other mental health professionals who engage in “reparative” or “conversion” therapy overrule any concerns that such practices are harmful to young people.
SO THE YOUNG PEOPLES RIGHTS DON’T MATTER!!!!!!! Unbeleivable
They only matter if the person is unborn.
From the moment they pop out, until the moment they join a church (preferably against their will), they’re second class citizens.
No blocks for bans on same sex marriage though. This stinks of prejudice.
I smell money in pockets here. There’s no way any Judge in their right mind would come to this conclusion.
Going as far as to say the research into such therapies being dangerous are ‘questionable and scientifically incomplete’ says it all to me.
interesting that the judge doesn’t require the same standards of evidence that the treatment actually works to give it the green light. If I claimed that I could cure depression with M&Ms could I set up a practice on that basis?
“Questionable and scientifically incomplete’ – and conversion therapy isn’t! I don’t think it is money though – more likely belief.
Personally, I’d be willing to bet it’s a combination of money AND belief…the belief that they know”what’s best for the children” combined with the parents belief that if they throw enough money at the person “helping with their child’s ‘problem’”, it will go away!
“the First Amendment rights of psychiatrists, psychologists and other mental health professionals who engage in “reparative” or “conversion” therapy overrule any concerns that such practices are harmful to young people.”
Hmm so what about the first amendment rights of rapists and murders? they should also have a right to commit their crimes against people too!
The (moronically tenuous) foundation his pre-judgement appears to be based upon is that therapists are using speech, and therefore we shouldn’t inhibit their freedom of speech.
Mental harm is apparently not to be weighed as seriously as the “right” to cause it.
I’m pretty sure the first amendment doesn’t cover causing harm to people.
That’s, like, one of the main exceptions to the first amendment. You lose your right to it when you’re causing harm to people.
Yep, John Stuart Mill’s “Harm Principle” would apply here. Though technically they could claim to have a gay cure, the moment they start perscribing a debunked snakeoil cure to a patient they’ve crossed the line from “Free speech” into “harm”, not to mention violating numerous professional codes of conduct which would get most psychiatrists struck off.
I just despair whenever I read about this sort of thing in American lawmaking. Someone makes a decision. Someone else overturns it. Someone appeals. Appeal rules in favour of first decision. That appeal is appealed against.
Sorry if that sounds overly-simplistic. I find it mind-boggling that this can happen. And saddening.
Americans believe theirs is the best legal system in the world, second to none. I beg to differ.
Any decent mental health worker knows the APA deleted homosexuality from their list of mental disoders (as soon they will have done with “gender disorder”, i.e. gender dysphoria). If it isn’t a mental disorder, it can’t be treated by a mental health care provider. These kinds of treatments, whether they are for adults or minors, are all quackery.
Religion poisons everything.
The real mental illness that needs treating is the belief in the ridiculous babblings of savage tribesmen from the bronze age. Belief in god is no different from a belief in bloody leprechauns.
In the US it is easy enough to go before a judge who agrees with your fundamental point of view.
look at the case between Apple and Samsung.
What a surprise a US court finds in favour of a US company.
So, essentially this judge has ruled that ‘It is okay to torture and treat US kids in a way that would be inconsistent with the way an enemy combatant’s can be treated under international law and conventions’ The use of torture on young people is therefore authorised in the US!
What a perverse decision!
One step forward, two steps back, just like always. This is no surprise, but it would have been nice for the judge to have outright rejected such torturous bigotry for once, rather than sympathizing with it.
I am disgusted by this. So the right to do harm others overrules the right for LGBT people to live with harm?
It’s just sick, those responsible should hang their heads in shame.
How many more young people or anybody for that matter are going to have to kill themselves before these bigots take notice.
Yet another price for religion, yet another reason to see religion for the sick people they are. (Not all just those in this particular case.)
sorry mean ‘to live withOut harm?’
The judge must be sick and need psychotherapy to cure him.
I’m just thankful we in the UK don’t have such a ridiculous system of administering laws and justice.
I would suspect this judge is sympathetic to ex-gay ministries and probably believes we can be ‘cured’. He should be removed from the bench. I bet he’s a right wing religious nutter too.
“rights of psychiatrists, psychologists and other mental health professionals who engage in “reparative” or “conversion” therapy overrule any concerns that such practices are harmful to young people.”
This is hard to believe, that a judge could actually state that.
Ex gay therapy kills LGBT people. Ex gay therapy needs to be stopped before it kills more LGBT people.
Judges should use the law not religion and politics…this judge (and I use the word loosely )…is a moron..
This is just one more battle which will be eventually won. If there is a free speech problem, and the law is overturned, it will simply be re-written with a view to passing legal muster. At any rate, this judge will not be the final arbiter of whether this law can stand, as any judgment he makes will be appealed by one side or the other.
Ok, how much of AFA’s money did this guy run off with?
The system is blocking replies to:
“Any decent mental health worker knows the APA deleted homosexuality from their list of mental disoders (as soon they will have done with “gender disorder”, i.e. gender dysphoria). If it isn’t a mental disorder, it can’t be treated by a mental health care provider. These kinds of treatments, whether they are for adults or minors, are all quackery.”
The APA just decided to continue persecuting us by maintaining the listing of gender dysphoria as a mental illness, for at least another decade. Do keep up.
It’s not over:
Liberty Counsel’s suit to block California’s “ex-gay” therapy ban was shot down today by a federal judge who reached the opposite conclusion of the judge who yesterday temporarily ruled differently in a separate suit brought by others. Via the National Center for Lesbian Rights:
The Court’s decision was prompted by a lawsuit filed by the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality challenging the new law protecting LGBT youth from practices—including the use of shame and aversion therapy—that are known to lead to depression and suicide attempts. The group is represented by Liberty Counsel, an anti-LGBT legal group. In rejecting the groups’ request to temporarily prevent the statute from going into effect on January 1, Judge Mueller concluded that the California law “prohibits a therapeutic practice deemed unproven and potentially harmful to minors by ten professional associations of mental health experts”.