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Church of England isolated further on equal marriage following bishop vote

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  1. I still can’t believe that in the 21st century, any religious institution can be exempt from the Equalities Act.

    The CofE will remain in the dark ages for ever more while it’s number continue to dwindle.

    1. I find it hard to believe that in the 21st Century people still believe in magic.

      1. Spanner1960 21 Nov 2012, 1:48pm

        J.K.Rowling might disagree with you there.

        1. No JK Rowling knows she is a writer of fiction. The people who believe in the bible have trouble differentiating between fiction and reality.

    2. True… but unfortunately it’s not only the CofE – religious nutters in the Netherlands will often give the CofE a run for its money.

      In that same 21st century the SGP, an extremist protestant political party with elected representatives in the Dutch parliament still vows to exclude women from participating in politics, as their place is at home (presumably in the kitchen). The party even explicitly refused female members, until the courts forced them to give up this practice in 2006. But even now, the party will not allow women to participate in elections.

    3. Robert in S. Kensington 21 Nov 2012, 12:17pm

      Frankly, let the CoE be exempt from the Equalities Act. It will make it easier to get equal marriage passed. All the time it remains in opposition, it only emboldens the movement for disestablishment. Yesterday’s decision has a silver lining, but it’s going to fire back on them eventually and as you see, see their numbers continue to dwindle. They’ve become irrelevant to moderates and progressives in the women’s equality movement.

  2. I admit to a good belly laugh as the CoE didn’t so much shoot itself in the foot with the Synod vote, but blew its leg off at the knee.

    Demographics change, the cultural zeitgeist changes, and subsequent generations become less willing to accept the discriminatory practices of the obsolete relics in the silly headgear.

    The response just over twitter (a handy way to put your ear to the ground and have a listen to public response) – in every one of the 3-4 trending topics – was overwhelmingly angry, bitter and disgusted.

    Lots of luck getting those people into pews and, more importantly, putting their money in the collection plate to keep the priest classes in brocade and frills.

    Anyone surprised that a church rooted in anti-woman behaviour doesn’t accept women into positions of power? Nope. Does this hurt us? No. It just turned more people away from the church.

    Another nail in its coffin and I couldn’t be happier.

    1. So true.

      And the response of Christians? “Well, we can solve this issue by becoming ever more dogmatic, grumpy and bossy… Oh! Hmm. Why are the pews empty? Come back here, now! I will stamp my feet and get cross and…”

  3. We still have bishops in the House of Lords. The same people who don’t believe that women are capable of telling lies and saying magic spells as well as a man – these people are part of our law make process.

    1. law making process.

    2. Robert in S. Kensington 21 Nov 2012, 12:14pm

      I agree. That’s why it’s crucial for Lords reform. Nobody should be in government who is unelected. Now that would put an end to bishops sitting there the majoirity of whom are against equal marriage and equality.

      This is the one time I agree with Ben Bradshaw in regard to the clamour for disestablishment. About time someone in Parliament mentioned the word.

      Yesteday’s decision will undoubtedly make it easier for the government to introduce equal marriage now that it the CoE has shown just how discriminatory it really is. It may have a very small handful of female priests but in essence, it is still deeply entrenched in misogyny. This doesn’t bode well for its future and won’t sit too well with the women’s movement. Many of those women who were on the fence over equal marriage will now start to support it. Anne Widdecombe must have been jumping for joy, probably wet her knickers with excitement. Soon she will be weeping tears of woe after equal marriage is introduced.

      1. Maybe Widders will change her mind and jump back into the CofE !!

        It seems to me that the old CofE is composed of two types of person. Those that are trying to understand, seek God and those who think he talks directly to them!

  4. How happy that makes me, the sound of nails hammering into wood.

  5. I have just heard Rowan Williams on the radio- BERATING the CofE for NOT KEEPING UP with changes in society!!!!
    Excuse me- but the more inclusive position of gay people within society is the very SAME one that HE has been resisting in the Cof E!!!

  6. Time to separate Church and State!!!

    How can we support a position of allowing Bishops engage with civil decision making in the house of lords, when the church they represent supports the “Right” to discriminate against women in the workplace.

    What company or organsiation would be allowed to advertise (explicitly), that it does not allow women to a ascend to senior positions of leadership.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 21 Nov 2012, 1:09pm

      Except that religion gets a free pass, can say what it wants even if its words are harsh, vile, untrue. Almost all MPs are afraid to rock the religious bigot boat for fear of being labelled “anti-religion”. They enable the abuse of religious freedom victim card mantra the religionists always play when they want to get their way. Until that ends, nothing changes. The CoE has a strangle hold on the government. The movement for disestablishment will only grow that much stronger putting an end to this quasi theocracy we’re living in as well as the monarch as its head. Neither are relevant to the 21st century and an utter waste of time and financial resources at the tax payers’ expense including those of us who happen to be LGBT people.

      1. Robert, exactly . . .

        Although, with the new equality legislation, perhaps women clergy might feel more inclined to take thier plight to the courts, rather than debating with the General Synod again.

        1. Robert in S. Kensington 21 Nov 2012, 3:49pm

          John, I doubt if they’d do that. After all, no court in the land or MP has the courage to go after religious denominations, no backbone, no guts, just cowards and downright misogynists. They’re in decline, numbers dwindling. The new archbishop better brace himself. He’s been left with an impossible task and don’t expect things to get better for LGBT people either. He’ll cave in just as Williams did to the right wing bigots both here and in Africa. They’ll hold him hostage to any dialogue with us and will rule out any future attempt to allow women to become bishops. Their Roman brothers are rejoicing at the news, bigots in arms.

  7. I managed to find a description on youtube of the very necessary and vital function that women are encouraged to perform within the CofE… it goes something like this:

    Stepford is closer than you think.

  8. If the special exemptions from the Equalities Act were removed it would solve all the church infighting, they would be given an excuse to run their business as all other businesses are run according to civil law, problem solved.
    They can then get on with attempting to find something useful to do for society instead of wasting all their efforts and time on inconsequential stuff like trying to hang on to the right to discriminate unfairly.

    1. Spanner1960 21 Nov 2012, 1:51pm

      Except they do not see it as a ‘business’, they see it as a divine right.
      Personally, if they want to squabble and bitch at each other, I really don’t give a toss.

      Just stay the fck out of politics and keep their medieval opinions to themselves.

  9. The Synod’s voting system is just weird (along with much else). Even Archbig – er, Archbishop Sentamu is in favour of women bishops, along with the new ABC.

    How you can have women priests but not women bishops is just beyond me. Still, it’s probably a bit much to expect logic from a religious institution.

    1. A bit like their logic of having gay priests /vicars ,(whatever their called) that must be asexual.

      1. Exactly, another absurd example of woolly doublethink. It is perhaps the only time I think the Catholics are almost preferable, in that at least they’re consistent in their prejudices.

  10. What a backward and insulting decision! I hope now people see the C of E for what they are – largely white men stuck in the past and clinging on to their privileges to the bitter end.

    It’ll make people take everything they say about equal marriage less seriously. Good. I hope they sink in the mire of their own prejudices.

  11. Cardinal Capone 21 Nov 2012, 2:42pm

    Organisations that discriminate against women and gays are deeply immoral. And that includes religious organisations.

  12. Cardinal Capone 21 Nov 2012, 2:46pm

    The CI seem to be keeping quiet on this one, preferring to keep to their obsession with preventing gay people from marrying.

    1. The Evangelical wing of the C of E has a tendency to ignore Bishops they dislike, but if the gays marriage, God would sumbmerge Eastbourne, Worthing and Bournmouth with holy rath…

  13. Nick Davis 21 Nov 2012, 3:33pm

    Bring back the Lions !!

    1. The CofE is based on one thing. . . the bowlocks of Heny VIII. . . and it is determined to remain run on a load of bowlocks, literally. . .dryed up none function functioning ones at that. . . here endeth the rant !!!

      1. Funny really, whenever CoE followers claim that gay marriage would undermine traditional marriage, they’re really speaking out against what was the driving force for the creation of their own religion.

  14. My first thought when I read of this silly decision was that it would weaken their position opposing equality. An own goal, if ever there was one. If only they would stand back from it all and see how twisted they are. The MONEY these cults waste while people are starving!

  15. This farce should no longer be forced by law on an over-patient nation.
    Distestablish them and expel their chief wizards from the House of Lords.
    If we must have a hereditary monarchy, let our sovereign’s legitimacy rest on the consent of Parliament and the Privy Council, not a ‘coronation’ where magic spells are cast by these clowns.
    If they have paid employees, all anti-discrimination law must be obeyed, or they end up in court. That could well mean that their shamans and wizards all have to be volunteers.
    Surely that will be no obstacle to true faith? Frankly I don’t give a damn.

  16. Six bloody votes in the House of Laity, what a crock…

  17. Pavlos Prince of Greece 21 Nov 2012, 7:07pm

    Is this decision not helpful for gay rights in the Church of England, no? If women bishop has became reality, the page ‘liberal reforms in the Church’ has been close, because nobody will have strong wish to debate this ‘packet’ longer and more ‘radical’. Now all still be subject of discussion, all is possible, including same-sex marriage and openly gay bishops. And supporters of women rights still are in the same boat alongside of gay activists.

  18. Why should they be exempt from the Equalities Act? What makes them special?

    1. What makes them special is that they have chosen to believe in God…and that obviously gives them the right to discriminate against people for things that they have not chosen. Funny, that made a lot more sense…well, never actually.

  19. “there is even talk of moves in parliament to remove the church’s exemption from the Equality Act.”

    I thought according to the right wing tories and christians that whatever opt outs were put into the equalities act they would be useless because the EU would overrule it. At least that’s what they say about the proposed opts out for churches from equal CIVIL marriage! Anyway doesn’t the CofE want to get rid of the equality and human rights act altogether?

    I’d like to feel sorry for the women bishops but the CofE don’t allow gay bishops as well, aren’t the women complicit in this? In addition the CofE also pursue us into the civil world as well. At least they give women a fair go in the civil world which is more than they do for gays.

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