Romans 1 also says: “They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.”
Sounds pretty much like American society in general to me!
“Any attempt to imply that Dr. Anderson’s reading of scripture was a call to harm gays and lesbians is false and serves as a distraction from the real issues of this campaign.”
Yeah, simply because Robert Anderson mentioned that gay people deserve to die, then confirmed that’s exactly what he meant later in his sermon, doesn’t mean that he actually meant it, and anyway it’s a distraction from the real issues, hey look over there everyone – it’s a baby jesus.
Sure, don’t backpedal too hard now, your bike chain might fall off!
The good pastor is just upholding what the Bible teaches. How can he be criticised for that? (That’s irony, BTW!)
Quite, I look forward to his Old Testament-based sermons extolling the virtues of ethnic cleansing, god-sanctioned incest and selling your daughter into slavery… oh wait, we don’t refer to those chapters as lessons for life now, do we?
Can we still teach about nearly stabbing your son to death cause the voices in your head said it would please god?
“From the beginning, we have been deeply committed to civility and honor the value of everyone’s human rights,” Except is those humans happen to be gay! What a fool that man is.
Oh my dear…er…god :D Here we go again – take a passage out of context and use it to ‘prove’ god hates LGBT people.
Paul was writing about pagan rituals. He was writing about people neglecting Christianity and worshipping pagan idols and taking part in pagan ritual sex, which also included sex between people of the same gender.
He talks about STRAIGHT men and STRAIGHT women having gay sex. He’s not talking about gay people for whom gay sex is, of course, perfectly natural.
Are all bigots stupid? I presume not but sometimes I struggle to believe that.
And why isn’t Anderson fighting to ban divorce? That’s a rhetorical question there because the answer’s easy – he just have to have some minority to hate. Nasty and ignorant.
What Paul meant is neither here nor there, Iris. He also said that slaves should obey their masters and a whole host of things modern Christians are very embarrassed about. He was a nutjob or a con-man or both who quite clearly knew nothing about Jesus. The latter would have been aghast at the supernatural quasi-pagan doctrines he believed about him.
Well indeed, Riondo :D But you have to get down to the level these people are talking at to have any success at educating them, I think. If you simply say the bible isn’t true or is just a collection of historical writings, then they assume that what they’ve said re gay people is correct and you’re trying to divert attention from that or something because that’s the simplistic way these people think.
People this blind and bigoted are mired in ignorance and you have to lead them out step by step not in one great big jump, I believe.
And I quite agree about Paul!
I agree re the God-botherers’ mindset but I think that challenges to their view of ‘what the Bible really says’ are more appropriate coming from non-homophobic insiders (though I don’t know what your beliefs are). In a forum like PN I think such things are a bit of a distraction/red herring – they seem to concede the irrational notion that what a Biblical writer ‘really meant’ is decisively important.
“And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, baosters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful; who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.” Are you saying that these words apply solely to those engaged in “pagan ritual sex”?
The point is that the context of Romans I is idolatry and that Paul had an obviously barmy view of people who didn’t share his totalitarian monotheism.
I think he should be taken about as seriously as the Reverend Moon.
But Christians DO take him seriously. Christianity is the invention of Paul: Jesus wouldn’t even recognize it!
I agree; also see my second response to Iris above.
PS Paul considered that everyone who wasn’t either Jewish or Christian was an idolater anyway, because they were obviously worshipping false gods. That’s why he includes every sin that he could think of on the spur of the moment in that long list. He was a rabble rouser in the same mould as Adolf Hitler.
Now you mention it I find it quite telling that “debate” makes it to Paul’s ‘Naughty list’. So according to Paul it’s a sin to disagree or go against the status quo in any way?
Anyone who’s ever used an internet debate forum is worthy of death!?! Looks like we’re all screwed then.
Whispering too, that’s out – have you ever fancied anything that anyone else owns? Then you’ve committed envy!
He was a right little despot, wasn’t he?
And “disobedient to parents”. That’s DEFINITELY “worthy of death”!
Now, now, everyone. The good pastor’s remarks have clearly been taken out of their context and he clearly didn’t mean to sound hateful and incite violence.
Just give me a minute to find the missing context that will make it clear that he couldn’t possibly have meant these things. I certainly can’t find it on my desk. Perhaps it’s under my chair. I think it will take a little while.
According to mainstream Christian theology, all ‘sinners,’ which is all of humankind, deserve death. The bible’s bile and hatred of humanity are in fact the true embodiment of equality.
This reminds me of when Peter Kearney said, back in July, “There is a link between same-sex sexual practice and early death. That’s not something that the Catholic Church believes, there is an overwhelming body of medical evidence to suggest that.”
When asked to which “overwhelming body of medical evidence” he was referring, Kearney said it would take 2 weeks to respond. 3 months later and still no word.
These people are too used to getting away with saying whatever crap they like and can’t cope with being challenged. They do not live in the real world!