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Minnesota student defends wearing anti-equal marriage T-shirt

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  1. I wonder if this poor misguided soul has ever asked God if he doesnt like gays then why did he make soooooo many of us. Im sad that such a young person is so hateful. God doesnt hate people. I would think he is saddened that people of one orientation despise people of another. all of which He created.

    1. ...Paddyswurds 20 Oct 2012, 8:41am

      @jakes…..
      …..non existant deities cannot create. “god” is an imaginary concept dreamed up by illiterate uneducated desert goat herders wandering the deserts of the Easter Mediterranean 4/5 thousand years ago when they couldn’t work out where the sun went at night and to salve their fear of death. Mankind is merely another form of life of the thousands of varieties of life on this planet and is genetically related to them all including plants. So get on with your life without fear of a malevolent being waiting to “punish” you after you die for being human….

      1. pissypixie 20 Oct 2012, 8:54am

        gah!!! I was trying to 1+ this but I hit report instead . my apologies!!

      2. Not everyone who believes in deities believes in the type that imposes strict and arbitrary rules with cruel and torturous punishments for breaking them, or believes in them for the same philosophical reasons (such as “Ahhh! Where did the sun go??”).

        1. The fun fell off the end of the world… as the world isn’t round, is it?

      3. Paul Essex/London 20 Oct 2012, 1:55pm

        Well thanks for your view on religion but how exactly is it at all relevant to that of jakes’, who specifically does not use his religious beliefs to hate or judge those who are anti-hate? His own specific beliefs do not harm you or anyone else (you assume you know what they are on bunch of general opinions of what any religious person by default must believe, based on you own preconceptions) so why attack him? And to clarify, I not an avid religionist I just take exception at your need to belittle others because they are religious, based on the view that ALL those are religious believe in oppression.

        1. ...Paddyswurds 20 Oct 2012, 2:43pm

          Typical religionist retort to something that isn’t there .I in no way attacked @jakes. I merely posted my opinion of “god” and religion. Nor did I belittle him in any way. However, now that you brought it up, the Abrahamic “god” is one of the most hate filled and malevolent ever created by man. That, I could have pointed out to @jakes, but didn’t.
          Your tone on the other hand is very hateful and in no way mirrors mine. I merely pointed out the salient facts of Abrahamic religion no more or less, you however castigated me from the beginning or your rant til the end….. Oh and by the way I do not require your or anyone else’s thanks…..

          1. Paul Essex/London 20 Oct 2012, 4:11pm

            “So get on with your life without fear of a malevolent being waiting to “punish” you after you die for being human….” So I suppose by expressing that particular opinion isn’t belittling or attacking him? How do you know that @jake believes that said malevolent will punish anyone?

            And yet you still won’t answer the question as to why or how your comment was relevant.

          2. ...Paddyswurds 20 Oct 2012, 5:55pm

            @….
            …..It is relevant in that he opined…. “God” doesnt (sic) hate people […] all of which He created.” which is clearly untrue and a delusion. As for the “holy book” he gleans his delusion from …there isn’t another book that carries so much hatred, misogyny, incest, homophobia, infanticide, slavery, murder and war to name but a short list of the evil it contains and is supposedly the basis for his belief in a deity.
            There; that is what I consider relevant but then I think you already knew that but in your religious delusional hatred you felt you had to harass the godless atheist!

          3. ...Paddyswurds 20 Oct 2012, 6:09pm

            “So get on with your life without fear of a malevolent being waiting to “punish” you after you die for being human…”…again religious ingenuity from a n xttian bigot. That comment is friendly advice an in no way is it “belittling or attacking him” and only an xtian could twist it to suit his own bigoted view….. This is why so many people despise absolutely xtians and rightly so. What was it Gandhi said …. “I Like your Christ; I do not like your Christians” He would have absolutely detested you….

  2. Wonder if that tshirt is made from mixed fabrics or if she wore it while eating shrimp…

    1. And what is she doing wearing clothing intended for a man?

    2. Clearly, she is going straight to Hell. Eternal damnation for those wearing mixed fabrics.

      God is just. Sin is sin.

    3. Sister Mary Clarence 21 Oct 2012, 9:51am

      Its a pity she didn’t choke on the shrimp

    4. And why is she even at university? Aren’t women meant to be in the home if you believe bible readings?

      1. and not cut their hair

  3. Dry as a nuns qunt

  4. Lyuba Allenivna Marchenko 20 Oct 2012, 1:08am

    Freedom of Speech. As an Asatruar, I defend her right to it. It makes things easier; I prefer to know where people stand. Then I will know just how big an ignorant person this suka is. I wouldn’t waste my time with a female like her!

    1. I was gonna suggest ‘stupid remains stupid’

      1. Me too. Or ‘ugly is ugly’. And I mean personality-wise.

    2. ‘Sin is IN’ would be fun

  5. the saddest part is that “as a devout Wisconsin Synod Lutheran” she actually has absolutely NO idea what is actually written in the Bible from which she wants to quote.

    my issue is with so-called “christians” who don’t even know the substance of the very book they would use to accuse others.

    1. Oh, I think they got the Bible down pat, MIkey.

      After all, Jesus said to “You shall love your neighbor as yourself” (ka-moh-kha le-re-a-kha ve-a-hav-tah, as yourself your neighbor and you shall love, in transliterated Hebrew), but only if they’re your friends or allies or are perfect. Otherwise, hate the hell out of them.

      Oh wait, no, they “hate the sin, not the sinner”. They just claim that sinners will be thrown in a gulag for eternity by God, because he loves them.

      Besides, as we all know, Jesus had a lot to say about sin! Throw the first stone, and throw it hard.

  6. I think she should wear a t-shirt that says “ugly is ugly”

  7. Woah woah, if she’s actually following the bible i’m sure she knows she has no voice. Did her boyfriend allow her to speak before that interview?

    1. casparthegood 21 Oct 2012, 10:22am

      Has she even got one? I have.

      1. On first reading I thought you were asking if she had a voice. Now realise it was boyfriend… lol

  8. She feels alone on campus because, because of her bigoted beliefs, she refuses to accept the humanity or worthiness of her fellow students

    I feel no sympathy for those who wear the mantle of persecution because people disapprove of their hatred and biogtry

    1. “I feel no sympathy for those who wear the mantle of persecution because people disapprove of their hatred and bigotry” What an amazing quote. You really must send me your full name so I can attribute it to you.

  9. Kerry Hollowell 20 Oct 2012, 5:47am

    hate is hate and the bible contains more hatred than most books put together.

    1. CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISM
      IS
      CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISM

  10. Can I wear my “God is a myth” or “Jesus was a member of the church” tshirt?

  11. ...Paddyswurds 20 Oct 2012, 8:49am

    Another deluded bigoted woman who picks and chooses from her vile religious book of hatred and death.
    I guarantee we will hear from this heap of dog shyte again when she implodes and ends up in a secure institution for murdering someone, possibly her own child, if she should ever persuade a man to stomach impregnating her that is….

  12. a very simple answer as per usual,
    churchgoing nutcase
    need to say more?

  13. However you dress it up

    BIGOTRY IS BIGOTRY.

  14. Hate is Hate

  15. Stupid is as stupid does; let her wear her opinion on her shirt and feel she’s doing her god’s work, as he can’t be bothered to let us know his opinion.

  16. “because I feel like it’s getting completely trampled in this place that’s supposed to be Christian”

    No, church and state are “supposed” to be separate according to your constitution. Everyone is ‘supposed’ to have the right to their own views. If your peers are more loving and accepting than you, what does that tell you about your faith?

    1. Well, even though I am 100% for equal rights, I did look up Concordia college, and it is a 4 year liberal arts college of the Evangelical Lutheran Religion. What that means is that it is a Private university, therefore allowing it to be oriented towards a specific religion. Even though I don’t agree with what she is saying, and how bigoted she is, I do respect her right to say it. As a christian, we are taught to treat others as we ourselves want to be treated. I want to be treated with respect and dignity, and therefore that’s how I treat others.

  17. Arrogance is so ugly

  18. ‘Sin is sin’ is actually a common slogan now amongst fundamentalists. It is a way of saying that anyone who has a different perspective is denying an objective reality that they have copyrighted. Such a shame that ‘delusional and hostile egotism is delusional and hostile egotism’ doesn’t fit easily on a t-shirt. I suppose ‘crap is crap’ would have to do.

    1. DELUSION IS DELUSION.

    2. Cardinal Capone 20 Oct 2012, 12:40pm

      Good post.

  19. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.”

    I hope she remembers to keep quiet in church? Ann Widdecombe to.

    1. Cardinal Capone 20 Oct 2012, 12:42pm

      It’s not just in churches, that’s a mistranslation. Women are forbidden from all public speaking and teaching.

      1. Then many transgress grieviously. Especially the holy anti equality contingent. They should know better:-)

  20. “Julius has admitted to previously feeling “alone” on campus and not always fitting in,”

    I hope she doesn’t get bullied for her queer beliefs about gay people but also I hope that the other students avoid her and she remains isolated for being a such a twat.

    1. I would imagine that she would be even more alone now?

  21. oh? God is a him, is he? funny that…

  22. Robert in S. Kensington 20 Oct 2012, 11:38am

    If there were no Straight/Gay alliance in her school, I wonder if she would still have made the T-shirt aimed at her fellow hetero adulterers, many of them serial adulterers, you know the ones who cause divorce as well as promiscuous single heteros, rapists and child molesters?

    The same can be said of the Christian Institute and that gang of hetero hatemongers who signed the C4M petition. None of them ever get their own house in order before they start pointing fingers and making outrageous accusations against gay people that has no foundation or truth. My understanding of christianity is that it does not teach others to hate, discriminate, judge, condemn or bear false witness against one’s neighbour. Clearly, this silly bint just doesn’t get it. Delusional at best.

    1. Cardinal Capone 20 Oct 2012, 12:47pm

      Controlling other people is a fundamentalist tenet.

      1. ...Paddyswurds 20 Oct 2012, 3:00pm

        Religion was invented as a form of control…..

  23. She has a right to wear it, that is protected speech, but a number of things spring to mind:

    She says she feels alone? I can see why. May she stay that way.

    One day her kids/grandkids will google her and be as horrified as those people who see their relatives in photos screaming at African American students as schools were integrated. This isn’t going to go away, she has put herself into history and will wear tis Tshirt forever now.

    Always be wary of those who speak for god – and harp on a couple of suspect verses rather than the whole “love” thing Jesus is meant to embody. “Love thy Neighbour” has no disclaimer, neither does “judge not lest ye be judged”. But then all christians cherry-pick.

    Lutheran churches in other countries are not anti-gay. Sweden for example, allows same sex marriage and has a lesbian bishop. So churches tune themselves to cultural zeitgeist. US is still homophobic, Sweden isn’t. One is progressive, one is not. Why? Follow the money.

  24. Jesus Mohammed 20 Oct 2012, 12:07pm

    Oh, that poor naive brainwashed young girl!

    When Xians squeal “Oh, but we are just harmless god-loving people!”, this girl proves they aren’t!

    For these harmless god-loving individuals delight, in a very sick way, in feeling that they must suffer, and fight back.

    If only they’d do exactly the same as their Christ and just let themselves suffer and be quietly crucified! But no, unlike Christ, they must fight tooth and claw in defence of their delusions.

  25. Another ‘God’s Gift’ christian wanting a speshul place in society and law. And ranting their head off in fear at the idea of someone else being their EQUAL.
    And she wonders why she feels isolated and alone. People generally don’t like dictators.

  26. Cardinal Capone 20 Oct 2012, 12:37pm

    How appropriate that her fight to control other people’s lives and stop them marrying is on a black shirt.

  27. “in this place that’s supposed to be Christian ”

    This of course is their problem, they think “this place” is theirs and we don’t belong here. We being anyone who doesn’t agree with them.

    1. That is what fundamentalist Christian Dominionism is all about., see Uganda.
      We have Christian Dominionist’s here in UK presently grouped together as the anti-equality Coalition For Marriage (C4M)

    2. reading comprehension, it’s a good thing.

      “this place” = the school which she attends, which is a christian institution.
      Concordia College is a religiously run school.

      1. Comprehension?
        Doesn’t say that in the article anyway, so how would I have comprehended that?

        Still nice try at trying to make me appear small. Just embarrassed yourself, and made people reading this wonder why you bothered to post that.

        Even if I had known about the religious background of a school 4 thousand miles away it doesn’t in essence alter what I said. She still thinks she is right and the rest are wrong. The college itself had had a pro-gay event previously.

        1. Better not to respond to smart-alecs

      2. Ben Foster 20 Oct 2012, 5:54pm

        And yet the religuously run college supports equality. Religion doesn’t have to equal bigotry.

      3. I live very close to this school, and they are a very progressive Lutheran university. I know lots of people who go there, for instance, who are atheists. They also have a huge interfaith organization, which includes all sorts of religions (even the ones that are cool with LGBT issues).

        1. Sounds like a collage that is TRYING to educate people in understanding and tolerance of the whole diversity of humanity.

        2. Isn’t it normally a disciplinary offence at most universitys to bring them into disrepute in the media … (the is NO first amendment protection from private institutions)

          1. Saying “My school isn’t anti-gay enough” isn’t really going to bring them into disrepute.

  28. Let her wear her silly, pious T-shirt. She is a good advertisement for the evil and bigotry of fundamentalist religion. It will get students who had previously felt indifferent about LGBT rights issues to realise why dogmatic religion should be regarded as humankind’s number one enemy.

  29. I think she is wrong but she can voice her opinion like anyone. To deny her the right to free speech because she is loudly bigoted is also working against equality.

    1. Oh please, this isn’t about your precious freedom of speech. It’s an issue of decorum on the school campus. Your right to display bigotry ends where my right to not be degraded as a person begins. Why is that so difficult to understand?

      And she looks like my mother as well. The whore.

  30. So, because people support her in her hate, she knows that “God is proud of what she’s trying to do for him.”

    So, if a person in a White Terror group like the KKK had a lot of support in the past in hanging a black man, does that mean that God wanted him to hang that black man?

    Oh wait, I’m sorry. I’m trying to use logic here on a bigot. My mistake.

  31. Well good on her. Freedom of speech supports her and if she thinks she needs to make her religous believe part of a political statement then that is her choice.

  32. Hey, her ears are pierced. The same book of the Old Testament that people like her claim say homosexuality is a sin also says that piercing your body is a sin.
    Hypocrite.

  33. Look at that smugness. I just want to save this picture and show it to her grandchildren. What utter scum.

    1. She looks smug but bl**dy miserable too! She reminds me of a lady I used to know who seemed to take pleasure in being as miserable as…er….sin :D If there were lots of seats on the bus, she’d still stand up with miserable, pursed lips and an expression of self-righteous martyrdom on her face.

      1. I think I know the woman!!! Or she has a sister up north!

  34. Ben Foster 20 Oct 2012, 6:00pm

    Don’t jump on me here, but listen when I say that in one odd way I sympathse with her. I’ve been there as the only gay in class, the only gay at work, turning the other cheek to the crude jokes,not minding the isolation, not being accepted in the crowd, standing up for myself with as much dignity as I can muster. I can understand her loneliness, and even the courage of her convictions. The difference is, I was born gay and can’t choose to be anything else. She can.

    1. Jesus Mohammed 20 Oct 2012, 8:57pm

      Ben, you were alone. She’s not. She’s got MASSIVE support. She’s got half a nation behind her.

      1. Not on campus by all accounts. Unless she was playing for sympathy – which is entirely possible. But it certainly struck me that she was saying exactly what I thought, but didn’t say, back then.

    2. You didn’t run around with a T-shirt condemning anyone else and acting like a martyr because of it though.
      No doubt this girl has her own personal issues she’s struggling with and the anti-gay thing is a good decoy to take attention away from whatever else is her real problem… “Look at them over there!”

  35. Apparently she missed Romans 2:1-16

    She should not be passing judgment on others. Let alone using God’s judgment as her own.

    1. Paul in Brighton 20 Oct 2012, 8:26pm

      Mario, apologies, I didn’t see your post and have duplicated your views…!

    2. I don’t quote chapter and verse, but I have often shown bigots that quote from the gospels about removing the plank from your own eye before taking the mote from your brother’s. They never quite get that I’m telling them that they are sinners as much as I am in the words of their own Messiah.

  36. Paul in Brighton 20 Oct 2012, 8:25pm

    I see she’s only championing the ‘sin’ of ‘homosexuality’, however convienently ignoring the biggest sin herself, and one she commits freely going so far as advertising it on her T-shirt.

    “Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.”

    Luke 6.37.

    Indeed, Jesus said – ‘let he who is without sin be the first to cast the stone…”

    I see Concordia has taken over the role of her God, and indeed awarded herself a Gold Star –

    “I also know that God is proud of what I’m trying to do for him.”

    Amazing woman, and I bow to her superior holiness. Even the Pope and Cardinal O Brien haven’t gone as far as this woman’s self-awarded praise from God.

  37. “Miserable as sin” would be a better slogan

  38. Christopher in Canada 20 Oct 2012, 11:23pm

    Since when is her “place” supposed to be Christian? How does she treat American Jews?

    Why does she feel the need to suppress others’ rights to what she takes for granted?

    Besides, she looks like a baby dyke… and I mean that in the best possible way! Women on board, what do YOU think?

    1. She just looks thoroughly miserable and uptight to me. Every time I look at her picture, I can’t see past that utterly miserable, martyr-like mouth.

    2. She goes to a pro-gay Christian school.

  39. ...Paddyswurds 20 Oct 2012, 11:53pm

    Does anyone know what happened to Stu and Jock S Trap?

    1. faeces on the penis causes HPV-- and HIV,..., 21 Oct 2012, 12:01am

      Gay plague?

      1. hardly worth pointing out how vile this comment is. We all know it is and expect nothing else from a troll.

      2. Mister Fister 22 Oct 2012, 3:30pm

        This vile, despicable creature gives trolls a bad name. Good original question though from …Paddyswurds. Miss Jock S Trap – not so sure about Stu…

    2. Jock posted in the last few days. Sorry – can’t remember which thread. I was pleased to see him back though.

  40. I agree that freedom of speech is important. I think that an understanding of history, context, and the founding of the nation she lives in is important as well. Her comment about “this place that is supposed to be Christian,” indicates that she doesn’t get any of those things. :(

    1. She is at a pro-gay Christian college. She isn’t saying anything about the whole USA.

  41. She’s obviously entitled to her opinion but she’s already realized that on campus her views are getting more and more marginalized. Since she’s so young I hope the church brain- washing process hasn’t affected her permanently and she’ll see the light one day.

  42. If you look through history for the past 4,000+ yrs., you’ll see that marriage was always conduceted with a man and woman. Even pagan kinds and queens where married only as man and woman. They looked at homosexual behavor as something unusual and tolerated it but never accepted it as mainstream relationship.

    Nowhere in civilized society was homosexality seen as a positive behavior. Even when diviant emperors such as Nero who had homosexual orgies did the average citizen see it as normal.
    Homosexual was rampant in their time, and eventually Rome destroyed itself with sexual debauchery, financial corruption, and letting them live their lives without any direction from Almighty God.

    While God loves those who see their shortcomings as sinful and regretful, He will love all people who admit their sins and look to live a Christian lifestyle.

    God set Commandments for man to live a civilized lifestyle and only those who “know better than God” defy Him and make themselves gods.

    1. John Boswell in his book “The Marriage of Likeness: Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europeargues that the adelphopoiia liturgy was evidence that the attitude of the Christian church towards homosexuality has changed over time, and that early Christians did accept and celebrate same-sex relationships.

      Rites of so-called “same-sex union” (Boswell’s proposed translation) occur in ancient prayer-books of both the western and eastern churches. They are rites of adelphopoiesis, literally Greek for the making of brothers. Boswell, argued that these should be regarded as sexual unions similar to marriage.

    2. Rome fell because of gayness, eh? You sound SO much like a fundie right-wing misinformation site, h. Rome did NOT fall because of the sexual behaviour of its citizens. To even suggest that is laughable.

      And what ‘Christian lifestyle’ do you suggest people lead? Many Christians understand that being gay is not a sin. Or were you talking about polygamy? Stoning non-virgin brides to death? Treating women as inferior? Killing men, women and children because god ordered it? Avoiding the wearing of mixed fibres? Getting women to marry their rapists? ALL those things are in the bible.

      Stop obsessing about other human beings and live a more compassionate, intelligent life. The views that you have about gay people are just like the views that many people had about black people, slavery and interracial marriage, and those people used the bible as proof of what they said.

      They were WRONG – and so are you.

      1. ...Paddyswurds 21 Oct 2012, 10:22pm

        I have asked this before, but will again; Why is it that almost 100% of these xtian bigots simply have no knowledge or grasp of the English language, spelling and grammar. I have witnessed this phenomenon all over the web and am mystified. has anyone any clue?

      2. Iris….From a variety of Roman publications, here are some excerpts:
        …..there was no family structure as we know it in ancient days. In ancient Rome, Roman religion supported acceptance of sexuality, Men were free to have intercourse with men, bestiality was not frowned upon, pornographic idols were prevalent, divorce was acceptable and the family structure was not considered honorable.
        Same sex intercourse with prostitutes or slaves was actually acceptable, not vitiating on a freeborn’s masculinity as long as the freeborn citizen took the active role in penetration.
        In the legions, the act of homosexuality amongst soldiers was considered a violation of military discipline and subject to harsh penalties.
        As with any freeborn, Soldiers were allowed to engage in same-sex relations with slaves, prostitutes and captives as a sign of inserting their sexual authority and their (active) masculinity.
        A Roman Citizen was allowed to exploit his own slaves for sex, no matter the age or circumstances of birth. A freeborn Roman could even rape, torture and abuse their property without charge or prosecution. A slave had no civil protection or authority pertaining to their body; in essence the body of a slave was to be used to appease the sexual appetites of their Dominus.

        Part of your comments
        :Rome fell because of gayness, eh? IT WAS A DEFINITE FACTOR)
        You sound SO much like a fundie right-wing misinformation site, h. Rome did NOT fall because of the sexual behaviour of its citizens. To even suggest that is laughable.
        And what ‘Christian lifestyle’ do you suggest people lead? Many Christians understand that being gay is not a sin. (NOT THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE BIBLE AS IT WAS WRITTEN)

        Or were you talking about polygamy? Stoning non-virgin brides to death? (ADULTERY OR FORNICATION WAS CONSIDERED SINFUL — BOTH TO MAN AND WOMAN CAUGHT IN THE ACT)

        Treating women as inferior? Killing men, women and children because god ordered it? (WHEN THE PEOPLE DISOBEYED GOD, HIS JUDGMENT WAS WARNED BY PROPHETS AND WHEN THEY PEOPLE DIDN’T LISTEN, JUDGMENT WAS CARRIED OUT AS TOLD TO THEM IT WOULD)

        Avoiding the wearing of mixed fibres? Getting women to marry their rapists? ALL those things are in the bible. (YOU HAVE TO READ THE ENTIRE WORDING, YOU CANNOT TAKE THINGS OUT OF CONTEXT)
        Stop obsessing about other human beings and live a more compassionate, intelligent life. The views that you have about gay people are just like the views that many people had about black people, slavery and interracial marriage, and those people used the bible as proof of what they said.
        They were WRONG – and so are you. ( LOOK AT HOLLYWOOD FOR A MODERN PCITURE OF ANCIENT DAYS. THEY ACCEPT DIVORCE, ADULTERY, FORNICATION, PORNOGRAPHY, IDOLIZE ,MONEY AND FAME, ARE LOVERS OF THEMSELVES, WORSHIP MONEY, HAVE NO CONCERN FOR THEIR CHILDREN AND CONTINUE IN SERIAL MARRIAGES CREATING DYSFUNCTIONAL CHILDREN.)

        .

        1. Um, u seem to be mis-informed as to the end of the Roman Empire. At it’s fall, it was a Christian nation, and had spent a hundred or so years persecuting and killing homosexual men. It was the Roman Empire that championed Christianity – and Rome was the first State in the World to make Christianity the State religion! Then the Empire completely failed after a long decline.

        2. h, your knowledge of Ancient Rome is woefully lacking. It’s wrong to say there was no family structure – there WAS. The idea of family was something they were proud of and wholly invested in.

          “Same sex intercourse with prostitutes or slaves was actually acceptable, not vitiating on a freeborn’s masculinity as long as the freeborn citizen took the active role in penetration”

          Yes, and not just with slaves or prostitutes. The last part of your sentence above is the whole point of the supposed prohibition in Leviticus. As in Rome, in many ancient societies sex between men was seen as fine as long as the ‘superior’ participant took the active role (by superior, I mean elder/higher in society etc). The reason for this is connected with the patriarchal society – ie ‘being like woman’ was seen as inferior and weak. The “you shall not lie with a man as with a woman” is a reference to not taking the part of the woman (ie the passive partner). Being the active partner is fine and manly.

        3. No, homosexuality was NOT a “definite factor” for the fall of the Roman Empire any more than it was for the British Empire, to use a modern example. The Roman Empire fell because it had over-reached itself and grown too large; the split into East and West Empires weakened it; the more distant the outposts were the harder they were to control and monitor; and there were big financial problems – the denarius had been greatly devalued.

          You “follow the bible as it was written” do you? So you don’t wear mixed fibres, you stone adulterers to death and you believe the Sun revolves around the Earth?

          Not only that, the usual passages that people quote to ‘prove’ homosexuality is wrong are grossly misinterpreted. There is no mention of homosexuality in the bible but what IS mentioned is the importance of being the active participant; temple sex (where men had sex with male temple prostitutes) which was seen as a threat to the preferred religion; and male prostitution.

          1. Hello Iris:
            You make some good comments that many atheitsts make over and over. My question to begin with is do you accept the Holy Bible in its entirety? The OT and the NT? You cannot take one without the other because if you read seriously the OT and NT both are directed at the Savior Jesus Christ because He is what we should be focused on.
            Between the OT and NT there was 400 yrs when God did not give His people any further word on what would happen in the future — and why that gap, nobody knows because it’s not revealed.
            Iris…You keep referring to the OT, but you have to understand that outside of great leaders like Abraham, Moses, etc. and the prophets, the people got “information” second-hand. And then with the revelation of the NT, God actually came to earth in the man form of Jesus Christ which made everything different. Here was God among people so He revealed the NT which was the actual word of God, and that’s what we have to understand and follow.
            And I would like to know what it is about Jesus Christ that is a problem with pagans and atheists today. What did Jesus Christ and His apostles say and proclaim that is so evil and destructive? He showed mercy to sinners, He forgave sinners and told them if they gave up their sinful life they could enter with Him in heaven. That they could overcome anything that was against His teachings and those of his apostles. Jesus and this apostles actually had dead people become alive again, sinners of every kind could overcome their sins and be free from all temptations and live a God-fearing life and become children of God. What in all that is hard to accept?
            All kinds of behavior from gossip, envy, hateful thoughts, etc. are not acceptable if one is to be a child of God. But lust continues to keep people sinning and making their own gods to follow and deny what’s written in the Bible. That’s what mankind contines to do — deny God and enjoy their own desires. There’s only one answer for that. Eternal destruction , no exception. You either do it God’s way or that of the evil one Satan — the choice is yours.

            God is God — He created the universe and man — who dares accuse God of His decisions and judgments? Puny man confronts God by what authority?

        4. Does the proscription against adultery mean ‘god dislikes heterosexual people’?? No, of course not. It is merely an attempt to proscribe *certain kinds* of heterosexual behaviour. Likewise with homosexuality – no being the passive partner, no engaging in ritual sex with the same gender at temples; no male prostitution or pimping.

          “JUDGMENT WAS CARRIED OUT AS TOLD TO THEM IT WOULD”

          So god issued a commandment saying Thou Shalt Not Kill then ordered his people to do the very thing he had forbidden?? And that was OK because the victims were ‘bad people’? God specifically orders the slaughter of innocent children and babies still in their mothers’ wombs – how can they be ‘guilty’?! Not a very nice or just ‘god’ is he? I wrote ‘god’ because he’s not god at all – merely a convenient voice for HUMANS to gain power and control people.

        5. I note you didn’t respond to my comments about black people, slavery and interracial marriage. The point is many people were SURE that the bible said that black people were ‘inferior’ (Curse of Ham); slavery was fine; and interracial marriage was forbidden by god. They don’t think that now, and soon people like you who seek to demonise one group of human beings will realise you were equally wrong.

          Read around, think for yourself, and be ahead of that group who in years to come will be embarrassed at what they thought about other humans no better and no worse than themselves.

          1. Oh Iris, much as we appreciate your articulate responses, why do you waste your time and intelligence on someone quite as dim as this specimen?

            When the blinkers are on so firmly, there really isn’t any use attempting reason or resorting to proper history in the hope that it’ll be comprehended.

          2. Rehan, every poor deluded fundie gets the benefit of the doubt from me if they’ve posted courteously, and I do respond initially. Why? Because, optimist that I am, I hope that once, just once, someone will actually take in what I say, think and search out information for themselves to counteract the religious propaganda they’ve been fed. Maybe it’s a teacher thing? :D It genuinely pains me to see such ignorance.

            I also see fundies as victims in a way – victims of their own fears and victims of misinformation. I admit it – I feel sorry for them :D – well, the ones who post politely and want to have some kind of discussion.

            Some fundies do change (eventually!). Everyone deserves a chance (but obviously not trolls like keith who I get great pleasure in ignoring as it irks him so much :D )

          3. Well, I so admire your patience and perseverance Iris, kudos to you. And indeed there have been one or two religionists on this site who have been able to discuss interpretations of various scriptures in a reasonably objective manner; but the minute one encounters fundies who speak of the Bible “as it was written” (because after all, as we all know, the Bible was written in US English) I just about lose the will to live.

        6. YOU CANNOT TAKE THINGS OUT OF CONTEXT

          Oh, the irony, the truly delicious irony …!

          1. Indeed! :D

  43. Poor misguided girl!

  44. Id of had a rainbow shirt saying ” love is love ” holding a megafone, would of crucified her and her moronic views.

  45. I dont think this is anything worth getting all worked up over. Its important sometimes to feel as though you are clear about what you believe to be right. We all do it. And she’s chosen quite a harmless way. A t-shirt is much more acceptable than a punch.

  46. Gay people are sinners for being gay the same way that black people are sinners for being black.
    Clearly it’s confusion about sin wot did the poor girls head in and drove her to make such a sorry spectacle of herself, she deserves pity and help.

  47. MyLyricalDreams 22 Oct 2012, 2:52pm

    “I may disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

    She is entitled to her opinion and beliefs so long as she does not harm anyone else.

    As a bisexual, it saddens me to see that some people don’t believe in equality for LGBT people but there is no point trying to change their minds. Instead focus on the people who are more openminded.

    I am not going to sit here and make petty insults about her apperance or religious choices, that would make me no better.

    In other words, let the baby have her bottle!

  48. NutjobsareeverywheretheUNtoo 22 Oct 2012, 2:52pm

    Son is sin so yor mom n dada. Only had sex to create you and your siblings then ? Any other pokey times is a sin and after all missey sin is sin

  49. Ricahrd the Big Bunny 22 Oct 2012, 7:09pm

    ‘Sin’ has no meaning to a non-religious, rational person — certainly not a legal or moral meaning. She can spout about sin & sodomy & any other ‘church word’ she wants … have at it, sister!

  50. I’m not sure my comment was posted.

    Hello Iris:
    You make some good comments that many atheitsts make over and over. My question to begin with is do you accept the Holy Bible in its entirety? The OT and the NT? You cannot take one without the other because if you read seriously the OT and NT both are directed at the Savior Jesus Christ because He is what we should be focused on.
    Between the OT and NT there was 400 yrs when God did not give His people any further word on what would happen in the future — and why that gap, nobody knows because it’s not revealed.
    Iris…You keep referring to the OT, but you have to understand that outside of great leaders like Abraham, Moses, etc. and the prophets, the people got “information” second-hand. And then with the revelation of the NT, God actually came to earth in the man form of Jesus Christ which made everything different. Here was God among people so He revealed the NT which was the actual word of God, and that’s what we have to unde

    1. “You make some good comments that many atheitsts make over and over”

      I’m not an atheist, I’m an agnostic. But I did used to be a Christian and I studied the bible through and through, and was led through it quite literally verse by verse by a teacher who was also a member of the clergy. He was a Christian but more importantly a learned and compassionate man. He didn’t seek to use the bible, which he cherished, as a back-up for his own prejudices. The only people who do that are the grossly insecure. If you really believed in god, you’d be ashamed to promote prejudice in his name.

      I’m more happy with the NT than the OT actually as I’ve read parts of it in the original Greek – hence why I know there are ridiculous misinterpretations, mistranslations and assumptions, particularly about the ‘Victim of the Day’, which today is the LGBT community, but has previously been people of different races and women to name just two. Why do you have to have someone to hate?

    2. Jesus? (I’m assuming he existed for the sake of argument) He didn’t say ONE WORD about homosexuality – and he had every opportunity too, didn’t he, if it was something that the human race had missed out from god’s prohibitions? More than that, he reached out to those that the ignorant, arrogant people of the day treated as cr*p. That’s why when I refer to fundies, I put ‘christians’ rather than Christians because bigoted, bible literalists are as far removed from the message of Jesus as anyone could be.

      “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
      Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

      No mention of picking out minorities to abuse, no mention of treating minorities as inferior – and no mention of judging other people.

    3. h, I’m sorry but people like you are one reason why I’m not a Christian any more. The other reason? Because when I re-read the bible as an adult I realised it simply wasn’t true in that it was just a collection of historical writings and nothing more. It smacks of power and control – an attempt to control by threatening hellfire and damnation and by men setting themselves up as some kind of mouthpiece for ‘god’.

      The end of your comment was lost but “we” don’t have to do anything, YOU can believe what you want but that gives you no right to inflict your religious beliefs on others nor to use them to deprive others of rights. I’m not interested in the bible but I won’t stand by and see lies and propaganda promoted in an attempt to denigrate gay people. And I’d feel exactly the same if I was straight.

    4. Ok,.h saw your whole comment above:

      “And I would like to know what it is about Jesus Christ that is a problem with pagans and atheists today. What did Jesus Christ and His apostles say and proclaim that is so evil and destructive?”

      Don’t assume I’m a pagan or an atheist. Some LGBT people are Christians anyway – being gay doesn’t mean you can’t be a Christian. And who said Jesus was a problem? The Jesus in the bible seemed to be kind and compassionate. I don’t know if he existed or not, but HE’S not the problem. It’s people like you who twist the bible and try to use it to promote prejudice and division. I don’t have anything against ‘Jesus’ – my problem is with fundamentalists (of all religions) who seek to victimise others. That and the absolute propaganda and rubbish many fundies swallow as truth. Fundies have cr*pped on about bar codes, conspiracies, told me as ‘facts’ things that were demonstrably untrue.

    5. Why? Because they have retreated into infantilism and turned off all their critical faculties, preferring to swallow lies and propaganda and a simplified view of the world. That’s not faith that’s dogma – a blind acceptance of information even when it’s shown to be false. That’s why other people here won’t speak to you – they think they’d be banging their head against a brick wall.

      I feel that a little too. Have you even taken in a word I’ve said or has it all passed over your head because you’ve blocked your mind to anything that threatens your world view? Can you not see the similarity with the treatment of black people, for example?

      Finally – the bible, god, jesus says NOTHING proscribing homosexuality at all. But even if you wrote a fake bible and put those bits in, I wouldn’t care. I don’t base my morals on an old book of doubtful provenance. If you have to follow an old book to live a moral life then I pity you.

    6. ...Paddyswurds 22 Oct 2012, 11:18pm

      Given the life story of the person known as Jesus, (if in fact such a person ever existed and there is grave doubt as Roman records of the time have no trace) the chances are that that he was homosexual. he hung out primarily with men some of whom were also probably “gay” and one woman who today would be the classic fag hag, the prossie Mary Magdeline. We know nothing whatever about the period from his puberty until he is 33. That such a person ever existed is seriously doubtful and if so was questionable. Any nutcase could have read the OT and claimed to be the expected messiah. In any case whoever he was or wasnt he certainly was not a “god” as no such entity exists or has ever existed ‘cept in the minds of illiterate and uneducated men….

  51. this problem, should be expelled from her college and, have all of her information posted!

  52. Zorra descerebrada. Brainless slut.

  53. What a disgusting, smug little brat. Makes me sick

  54. She can wear whatever she likes. I’m sure she’ll spend most of her time alone in the library though, and will be missing out on all the best parties of course :D

  55. She has the freedom to wear whatever t-shirt she wants. HOWEVER: she and others lie her need to start taking note – she says “in this place that’s supposed to be Christian” – FALSE. By its constitution and by the treaty of Triploi, America is NOT christian, as they’re all so keen on telling us, the US has freedom of religion; and the school most definitely is NOT christian, since public schools are not allowed to promote any one religion either. She needs to realise that her religion does not have any special rights or powers under law or morality.

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