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Canada: New birth certificate rules for transgender people in Ontario

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  1. Step by step, things are changing for the better.

    1. billywingartenson 21 Nov 2012, 6:11am

      and no screaming from the vat in rome?

      here in the USA last year in our state, they testified that trans would result in “gender becoming a social construct”

      Really the social construct is the fear and its child hatred of people who dont fit social gender norms.

      Ps I’m thinking of all the priests who have a problem re the little kids – trans them? – so cruel but sometimes you need to make an impression.

      I’ve actually testified at hearings re protecting trans people. At the end of my 3 or so minutes of testimory a couple trans – M>F and F>M come Up and I hug them both.

  2. Sterling Ericsson 13 Oct 2012, 8:29am

    This is a pretty great step and i’m not surprised at all that Canada is the one to take it.

    The only question/concern I have about this though is…what restrooms do the people in question use if they get their gender changed on their birth certificate, but haven’t had the surgery yet?

    That could get awkward. Maybe not for them, per se, but potentially for others around them.

    Maybe we should just make all restrooms unisex.

    1. Presumably if you’re using a women’s bathroom (all stalls), or one of the stalls in a men’s bathroom, nobody would be able to see what genitalia you possess.

      1. Sterling Ericsson 13 Oct 2012, 7:08pm

        That’s true. But, in that sense, it might be better to just make all restrooms unisex. That way, it would be giving less importance to the differences of gender. Maybe make there be somewhat less sexism in the world.

        Unlikely, but hey, small steps in certain areas could add up over time.

        I mean…what exactly was the point of making there be separate restrooms anyways? Men don’t actually need urinals, stalls would work just as good and then, you’re right, no one would be able to see you, so there’s no need for separate restrooms.

        (And for the people that downvoted me, I was being seriously curious on how it would work, I wasn’t trying to bash anyone. I’m all for this new birth certificate law.)

        1. OrtharRrith 13 Oct 2012, 7:24pm

          People who have transitioned but either can not have surgery or are yet to have surgery, use the restroom of the gender they present as. It’s not awkward for the other users of those toilets, after all how often do you use a public loo and wonder what’s in the pants of the guy you just saw come in?
          In many ways its more difficult for trans people as we have to worry if the person coming in is going to be offended and then beat the living day lights out of us.

          1. Sterling Ericsson 13 Oct 2012, 8:46pm

            Then, wouldn’t unisex bathrooms make it less of an issue? I mean, it wouldn’t get rid of those people that are going to be bigoted and hate trans people regardless, but I think it would remove a lot of the…what would be the right terminology…gender tension? Our society has this tendency to always single out and separate the genders, which is where a lot of the issues in the past comes from.

            Though, it’s true that it goes both ways. You want some amount of separation so you can make sure equal rights are being upheld, but it’s difficult to find the line between how much separation is enough.

            I mean, segregation was clearly wrong, but then affirmative action programs are right. But then, affirmative action programs have issues too and so it’s a constant battle to define how we make everyone equal, but all deal with the bigoted people that would end up making things subtly unequal, so you have to have measures to prevent that.

        2. “Men don’t actually need urinals, stalls would work just as good and then, you’re right, no one would be able to see you, so there’s no need for separate restrooms.”

          And what about women? I imagine many women would prefer separate toilets, so it’s for our benefit maybe more than men’s. (I’m guessing you’re male – forgive me if I’ve got that wrong).

          1. Sterling Ericsson 13 Oct 2012, 8:47pm

            I am a man, yeah. I guess you’d have to explain to me why women would prefer separate stalls, since I wouldn’t know the reasons personally. Is it because of how men would treat women in such a situation?

          2. Thanks for confirming that, Sterling. Yes, some straight men can be very intrusive and rude. It’s nice to be able to get away from that, for example, in a club where the Ladies Toilets offer a blessed respite from the comments (obviously I’m not saying all men are like that, but I’ve had enough experiences as have all my female friends. Even ‘innocent’ comments can still be perceived as harrassment if they’re unwanted). There are also safety concerns for women.

            I have used Unisex Toilets before – once at a posh historical tourist attraction where it was fine (albeit slightly strange because I wasn’t used to it – maybe women are more ‘private’, I don’t know), and once at a campsite where it most definitely was NOT fine – a peeping tom, comments through the cubicle door, etc

            It doesn’t matter that most men wouldn’t dream of doing things like that or how likely anything it is that anything like that will happen. Most women feel more secure in Ladies Toilets and more at ease.

          3. I personally prefer the womens rather than unisex. The mens loo stinks and all the urine on the seats they can’t be bothered to raise (even when there is a urinal instead) is just gross. Then there is the social chat aspect & there is no way the girls are going to stop and chat if the guys are around. So, no, I don’t believe unisex is the way to go. *smiles*

          4. Katie Murphy 21 Nov 2012, 6:18am

            In iceland and Denmark large public facilities have same sex toilet rooms. Every thing is in stall, fully height walls sealed at the bottoms and the corners etc

            NObody gives a damn – especially I suspect when some disaster is about to occur. You get used to it in the first 5 min. and then its no deal at all.

  3. This is absurd. What sense does it make to indicate “gender” on a birth certificate, when the concept of gender as such is becoming blurred beyond recognition? The authorities should either keep to the physical appearance or drop the gender entry.

    1. Sterling Ericsson 13 Oct 2012, 7:10pm

      They should get rid of gender and ethnicity, while we’re at it. Emphasizing differences between people is really only leading to further “ism” attacks on people (racism, sexism, ect.).

      If we all stopped focusing on such things, maybe then a lot of the hate and violence in the world would go away.

    2. OrtharRrith 13 Oct 2012, 7:33pm

      When you are a transgender person, having gender on your birth certificate and other things gives you a level of bureaucratic protection that cisgender people take for granted.

      1. Sterling Ericsson 13 Oct 2012, 8:49pm

        That’s true. It kinda goes in with what I just posted in the above discussion thread, where do you draw the line between having protections for groups by singling them out, but not singling them out so much that you cause disparity and conflict.

        I’m not sure what exactly the proper line should be.

        Really, it would be so much easier if all the people in the world got rid of their irrational hatred and fear of those who are different from them.

        But I guess that’s just a pipe dream.

        1. billywingartenson 21 Nov 2012, 6:15am

          Jesus – ‘love thy neighbor as thyself” so much of xtianity replaces the 4 letter word above spelled Lxxx with the 4 letter word spelled Hxxe

          Time that churches be forced to teach that some people are different re sexuality and their mental vs Phys gender

          or pay taxes for a starter.

  4. Gay Activist Paul Mitchell 14 Oct 2012, 1:57pm

    Go Ontario!

    Ontario has always been there first in Canada to be progressive within it’s laws for LGBT people!

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