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David Cameron determined to press ahead with equal marriage

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  1. He realises that unless it is passed now-it will remain a bone of contention for the conservatives up to and at the next election. Then they will again be branded the “nasty” party-so they will be the only major party against equal marriage-and all his attempts at modernising the conservatives will be dashed. He needs to get it through quickly before any election- when it will no longer be an issue. Go David!!

    1. Craig Denney 10 Oct 2012, 12:43pm

      “it could be on the statute book before the end of next year”

      ‘it could be’ So it’s not going to be in the next Queens Speech then.

      He knows the coalition will break about a year before the next election and that’s if it doesn’t break before hand.

      Call him welcher Dave.

  2. Spanner1960 9 Oct 2012, 11:38am

    Well I admire the man for sticking by his guns in the face of some pretty formidable criticism, much of it from his own party.

    However, he really needs to actually set a timeline. I think the consultation period has been quite long enough, and we need to hear some definite proposals as to precisely what and when.

    A lot of people are starting to think Cameron is getting cold feet about the issue, but I think he would actually face an even bigger challenge should he even think of attempting a U-Turn, or diluting the proposals.

    My only caveat is that there should be some irrevocable assurance that religious establishments will not be forced to conduct same -sex marriages, and that those the wish to be allowed.

  3. He deserves praise for sticking to his guns. I emailed the PM’s office this morning via the Number 10 web site, and I really urge you to do the same. :)

    1. Good thinking Sasha – I’ve now just down the same.

  4. When?

    We need a specific timetable.

    There are no more excuses, now that the homophobic, timewasting ‘consultation’ is over.

    Can we expect to see an equal marriage bill before parliament in the coming weeks.

    If not then why not?

    1. I’m not aware there are any excuses. Can I suggest to actually read the article in future before you post a comment.

      1. Sister Mary Clarence 10 Oct 2012, 2:32pm

        Oh I think there is very little chance he actually will.

    2. Public consultation is never ‘timewasting’ as you call it. It is democracy. If you wish to live in a dictatorship or an authoritarian state go and live in China or North Korea. We all share your desire for this measure to come before Parliament and be enacted but do be constructive – write a polite letter to the Prime Minister urging him to progress this measure

  5. Does Cameron still believe that equal civil rights for the LGBT community should be a free vote?

    If so, then why?

    1. Because he knows he can get it through with a free vote and it keeps the bigots quieter. Think it’s called pragmatism, give him some credit when he uses it ;-)

      1. Well said Damien, you’ve hit the nail on the head.

  6. Enough talk then Mr Cameron, you need to ensure that it is in the Queens Speech at the state opening of Parliament and you need to make sure that you do everything within your power to make sure it is passed into law.

    As someone else has already said, there has been too much talk and consultation not to mention the scaremongering from the C4M campaign. Grow some balls and dismiss that campaign too!

  7. Then why doesn’t he?

    All 3 parties support it, supposedly. 2 parties will whip the vote. Why all this “let’s press ahead” “let’s consult” why isn’t it here? How har is it to draft the law that no party opposes and just requires an old law to be tweaked?

    1. Sister Mary Clarence 10 Oct 2012, 2:35pm

      Can I ask if you’re actually taken part in the consultations?

      It asks a series of questions about the detail and nature of the changes being proposed.

      Dear God, if he gets it wrong and doesn’t have everything with bells on that people want they’ll go through the roof.

      The consultation is about asking people their views on the details of the introductions of marriage equality.

  8. Robert in S. Kensington 9 Oct 2012, 12:05pm

    At long last, David Cameron is growing a pair of balls. Now I’d like to see him take on the virulently homophobic opposition at yesterday’s anti equal marriage conference. All of their absurd claims can be demolished one by one.

    I don’t know why there can’t be a parliamentary motion right now, prior to an equal marriage bill, guaranteeing exemption for any religious denomination that does not want to participate while giving carte blanche to those who do. Make it contingent on drafting an equal marriage bill. Get it passed and then proceed with equal marriage legislation. Maybe it has never been done before for any legislation, but this could be an important exception and one I think which would work and put a stop to the ridiculous spurious notions coming from the opposition. It would really take the wind out of their sails once and for all. They might continue with their nonsense regardless, but it will be in vain.

  9. Im gay and even im fed up of hearing about gay marriage.

    Just do it already.

  10. ...Paddyswurds 9 Oct 2012, 12:22pm

    “The No 10 source added that Conservative MPs “can vote how they want – it’s a free vote – but it won’t deflect us.”” Well it is a free vote then it can be deflected by the Anti Equality bigots in the party . That is typical Tory double speak… Why wait to next year; Just phuckin get on with it now….

    1. It simply means that marriage equality will happen in spite of and not because of the Tories

      1. Robert in S. Kensington 9 Oct 2012, 2:50pm

        Don’t forget, we still need a sufficient number of Tories to get it through parliament . My concern is, just now many are there who will vote yes and how many of them will be needed to guarantee passage? Nobody really knows at this stage of the debate. If the numbers aren’t there, then maybe it will have to wait until after the 2015 election. It makes no sense to have a vote knowing the numbers aren’t there. All it does is expose exactly who those MPs were who made sure it failed. It won’t be easy to boot them out in their constituencies if they have comfortable majorities that they currently take for granted. The Tory party is in a catch 22 situation, damned if it supports it, damned if it opposes it. It won’t be because of equal marriage if it fails to win re-election but because of the economic woes and cuts to programmes. Jobless people don’t care about equal marriage. They’ll vote for the party whhich has a plan to put people back to work first and foremost.

        1. With Labour and the Lib Dems placing a whip on the vote then the majority of Tory MP’s can still vote against equal civil rights; and it will still pass.

          That’s what makes the Tories’ behaviour so disgustingly homophobic and opportunistic.

          Cameron wants to keep the neo-fascist base support of the Tories intact, so he will not risk his neck by imposing a party whip on this issue.

          Never trust a Tory.

          1. dAVID

            “neo-fascist”? Really?

            Have you ever come across real neo-Fascists?

          2. Don’t be ridiculous – forcing through a major piece of legislation that will change society (I’m sure we’d all agree for the better) without consultation would be fascism, the democratic path is public consultation giving all in society an opportunity to air their views (whether we like them or not) and then ample time for debate as it passes through the various stages of the parliamentary system.

            Those who label everyone they don’t agree with as ‘neo-fascist’ are simply demonstrating their own fascism.

        2. The Tory party’s plan is to skew even further into extreme and draconian right wing territory, much much closer to UKIP and even BNP. With a forecast of a deeper economic recession in the years ahead, I doubt very much CaMoron’s hotter than air gay-baits and soundbites will last that long. Sometime in the future they’ll naturally escape into stratosphere and CaMoron will have to ditch the issue in this parliament, and will promise it for the next. Let’s hope not, but knowing what the Tories think about this issue and how they are hard pressed by their own electorate, and how they have been pandering to their bigoted wishes, this is not a far fetched analysis.

          1. That There Other David 9 Oct 2012, 5:20pm

            If the situation is as bad in the coming years as you point out the Tories won’t need to promise anything for the next Parliament. They will be in opposition and a Labour government will bring in marriage equality.

        3. Spanner1960 10 Oct 2012, 3:59pm

          Of course he has.
          He’s a neo-Marxist.

  11. Cardinal Capone 9 Oct 2012, 12:37pm

    If a large enough minority of the tories vote against equality, it will still damage the chances of the party at the next election, as it will show them up as, underneath it all, still the “nasty” party.

    Much better to to insist on some discipline in modernising the party, and having a three line whip. Especially as it is not a matter of conscience; as he puts it himself, it’s a straightforward matter of equality.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 9 Oct 2012, 2:54pm

      For the Tories only, a conscience vote would make sense if we knew there were enough of them to guarantee a safe passage through parliament. Otherwise, I agree, a whipped vote would be better, although I can imagine a huge backlash from the right wing element crying abuse of religious freedom and of course “conscience”.

      Cameron will never agree to a whipped vote to appease bigots.

      1. Sister Mary Clarence 10 Oct 2012, 2:46pm

        There are Robert.

        The Tory Party is in a state of change at the moment. Cameron is attempting to reform the party and remove elements that are damaging to its future.

        Whipping does not permit him to see who is moving in the same direction as he is. A free vote does.

        The introductions of marriage equality is a clever piece of politics from him. Those that don’t align themselves with him identify themselves as working against the reforms he is trying to introduce, and the evidence is there from previous incidents that the party will not protect them.

        The Lib Dems and Labour must support it also or risk losing core vote.

        Even if a sizeable number of Tories revolt the legislation is still passed.

        End result, he can do any necessary housekeeping within the party and the Tories will take credit for some landmark equality legislation.

  12. Much as I loathe Cameron, I welcome his repeated affirmation on the issue. It is a shame that he will not be whipping the vote, but it is obvious why. He is already hated by many of his ultra-right-wing back-benchers and he probably thinks (rightly) that a forced vote will detonate open civil war in the party. I hope all the support for equal marriage in parliament can be pulled together to get it through ASAP.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 9 Oct 2012, 2:58pm

      Yes, Riondo, but as I’ve said many times before, we need a sufficient number of Tories to make it happen. The problem right now is, we just don’t know how many of them will makes sure it gets through. A conscience vote on this one issue isn’t a good thing. I would hazard a guess and say that we’d need a third of them to guarantee passage, at least 100. I don’t think there is anywhere near that number at this point in time. Le’ts hope it happens and more of them will evolve. We have until 2015 don’t forget, hopefully sooner.

      1. That There Other David 9 Oct 2012, 5:18pm

        I don’t see it as being that high a figure. Labour and the Lib Dems are going to whip their MPs, so that’s 311 votes minus a few absentees. Given that the Green MP and possibly all six of the SNP MPs will also vote for that doesn’t leave too many votes needed from the Blue benches before the magic 326 is reached to pass the Bill. As few as 30 Tories could be all that is required, and to be honest I think there’s already three times that number in favour.

        1. Robert in S. Kensington 9 Oct 2012, 5:50pm

          David, I only threw out 100 Tories that were needed not knowing just how many who were actually in favour of equal marriage. If your figures are correct, then it’s a definite win. Imagine if 100 Tories did vote yes though, giving equal marriage a landslide victory and an overhwelming majority burying the bigots at yesterday’s hate rally once and for all.

        2. bobbleobble 9 Oct 2012, 11:42pm

          The maths is complicated but there’s likely to be around 300 Labour and Lib Dem MPs voting in favour. The Alliance Party MP, the SDLP, the Green MP and Plaid are likely to vote in favour.

          Some Labour MPs will defy the whip and vote against but not many. I think around half of Tories will vote no along with the DUP and Sylvian Herman from NI. Unfortunately the SNP and Sinn Fein, both in favour, will not be voting, the SNP because this is a purely English and Welsh matter and Sinn Fein becuase they don’t take their seats.

          I think there’ll be a substantial majority in favour in the end however, the size of it depends on how many Tories vote no.

  13. Peter & Michael 9 Oct 2012, 3:07pm

    Good on David Cameron, but do we really have to wait until 2015 for Equal Marriage to come into force, surely it is better to put the matter on to the statute book sooner rather than let us wait for another two years.

  14. Well done David!!!!

  15. Gay Activist Paul Mitchell 10 Oct 2012, 4:06am

    Time is running out you only have 2 and a half years to get marriage equality though both houses and the bill have not even been introduced yet!

    It is so simple for goodness sake!

    here is my bill:

    Civil Marriage Equality Religious Freedoms And Civil Partnerships Legislation Amendment Bill 2012

    Repeal the provision , “between a man and a woman”, replace with “any two adult persons”.

    All references to “opposite sex, opposite gender, same sex, same gender, women, men, male, female, boy, girl” – are to be replaced with “two human persons, person or persons, individuals and human beings.”

    Add next to that provision:
    “No minister, priest or rabbi should be forced to conduct or arrange a marriage that goes against their religious beliefs or conscience, however they are still free to conduct any civil marriage under the UK law if they so wish.”

    Add another provision –

    “Current civil partnership couples may convert there civil partnership to a civil marriage without any cost.”

    1. Spanner1960 10 Oct 2012, 4:01pm

      Your specification would the allow me to marry my sister.
      Inflammatory and not very well thought through I would say.

  16. If the Tories get this through, I will have to admit that for once they have done something useful. But a free vote? Is that his get out? If it fails he can still say “well I did try..” And we are no further forward

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