Is this BIGOT forgetting that thousands of Gays were murdered in concentration camps by Hitler?
These people are so ignorant.
Not to mention the criminalization of homosexuality in England until the 1960s.
Carey is also forgetting that it is he that now wants to oppress the religious freedom of liberal Jews who want to marry same-sex couples.
As if being opposed to inequality could in anyway be likened to fascism.
From where I am standing Carey et al are calling for an open debate in defence of the institution of marriage, and the word “bigot” appears to be being used by the pro-equal marriage rights lobby to crush such debate and paint all opposition as irrational and barmy.
Wouldn’t it be more civilised to take up the baton and debate the issue intelligently and sensibly, using the arguments the pro-equal rights side have to counter and quell those of religionists who fear the end of civilisation as we know it?
The fact is that no one beneath the pro-equal marriage spotlight seems to have the chutzpah or will to debate the issue and instead seem intent on bulldozing the issue through without taking stock of all viewpoints, which rather begs the question what are they scared of?
For Nicholas Chinardet to attempt to vilify the likes of Lord Carey further when he had every right to express his dismay at the cowardly “bigot!” tactics employed by the pro brigade does the cause no favours.
So, nobody in the pro-equal marriage doesn’t have the chutzpah or will to debate the issue? Well, using polygamy, incest and bestiality as many in opposition are inclined to employ to justify a ban on equal marriage, defies any justification to have a reasoned debate. There are eleven countries that have legalised equal marriage. There have been no instances or demand for such relationships. If you or better yet, Lord Carey and his ilk could provide the public with the factual evidence to substantiate those vile, spurious claims, then perhaps an intelligent debate could begin. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with religion. Nobody is forcing any denomination to participate and if some wish to, so be it. It is not within the remit of the CoE or any other to abuse the freedom of religion for those other denominations who support equal marriage. The state issues marriage certificates, not the churches and therefore it is the state which regulates marriage.
Further, vilification is a two-way street. A bit rich to accuse proponents of equal marriage as the bigots. Have you ever looked at the dictionary to find out the meaning of the word? People who spread lies, misinformation and alluding to polygamy, incest and bestiality as a result of our being able to marry are in every sense of the word “bigots”. Name one of the eleven countries where such relationships are now legal? The Netherlands was the first country legalise equal marriage over eleven years ago. Surely, Lord Carey could find the evidence to support his absurd argument? If not, why don’t you?
What is there to debate? A sub-set of society in our democracy is currently denied a legal civil right for no defensible nor logical reason, and non-elected establishment figures such as Lord Carey are part of the oppressors rather than the oppressed. That’s the reality of it.
So please, you give me 5 good reasons why this should remain the case and we’ll debate it, but all we keep hearing is rubbish about society collapsing and children will growing up mentally scarred if same-sex couples can get married, none of it backed up by anything other than circular logic drawn from Bronze Age fables and bad science.
In the meantime the accusation of bigotry is justified and fitting.
It is bigoted and is irrational and barmy. It is high time it was officially termed a mental illness, and restricted to places designated for the manifestation of such deluded bigotry. It certainly should not be allowed within 100 miles of any child or school. If people want to brainwash their own children, fine, but do it in their own homes. It is also high time it became an issue with people who are seeking elected office. We should quiz prospective politicians as to where they stand on this ilness and then we should vote accordingly; ie; not vote for such deluded people or not allow them to run in the first place….
Samuel B would you get in touch, we would love to hear your views on the one-sided action that the Government is currently taking, would you mind dropping an email to firstname.lastname@example.org
No one should have to debate their claim to equal rights and certainly not with the religiously deluded bigots of the Abrahamic cults….
Sam B: the debate is being had. It’s all over the web and in newspapers and on TV and the radio. The debate is not being stifled as you suggest. But as you can see from Dr. Carey’s words, it is his type of Christian who is doing most to drag the debate into the realm of rhetoric and unjustified and dangerous hyperbole. It is bigoted by definition. It is not justified by the evidence. I mean, 1000 people joined a rally. Are they oppressed? No. Are they bigots? Yes.
The debate on equal marriage WAS open and the debate WAS had. Now the debate is closed and equal marriage WILL happen and the odious bigots and their supporters will be nothing but a footnote. Goodbye Mr. Sam Footnote.
It’s very much a one-way debate.
I’d like to hear the religionists’ arguments against equal marriage rights as much for the fact that it may sway my judgement in favour of the pro lobby, but the press isn’t giving them oxygen.
As it is I ‘m not a proponent for full marriage rights for gays because the arguments of the pro lobby haven’t been persuasive enough to make me get off the fence and jump aboard the bandwagon.
All I see is a push that seems as determined to rub the church’s nose in it as it is to achieve its objective, and I find that distasteful and not something I want to be a part of, particularly when civil partnerships fulfil all main objectives in law that bind two people.
Furthermore, I do wonder why we are so keen to embrace a heterosexual institution that has been in decline since the 1970s and which is so symbiotically intertwined with the church.
With the push for gay marriage being orchestrated globally, it does make me wonder whether a hidden agenda is at play.
If you haven’t heard the views of people against gay marriage then you really haven’t been listening. The Daily Mail, the Telegraph, the Sunday Times and the Express are all against allowing gay people to marry and whenever the BBC reports on gay marriage they do it from a position of religious point of view. So if you want to know the anti-argument from some religious groups (not all) you don’t have to look far.
The rest of your post is your usual paranoid nonsense.
Press not giving them oxygen? Even on the BBC the anti-equality side of the argument only ever gets mentioned, let alone the number of newspapers openly and vehemently editorialising against any extension of the marriage laws.
Are you really so blinkered that any opposing view to your own receiving publicity is considered “stifling”? If so what a strange little world you live in.
Oh, and BTW, the church doesn’t own marriage. Even if they ever did that changed the moment registry office marriage ceremonies became legal. So let’s drop the idea that marriage = religious marriage. It’s simply a fallacy.
I would hope that there is a global agenda and that that agenda is to eventually see an end to the mental illness that is religious delusion….
Samuel, how about you take your support for or against my equality and shove it right up your ignorant *ss! The fact that you seem to think that we want or need your support or that we’re willing to lift one finger to try to win your approval is hilarious! Newsflash Napoleon, you’re not that important or influential.
We don’t want or need your support. We will win this with or without you. Your support or opposition won’t change a thing. The only people your position will affect will be your children and your grandchildren who will either be very proud of you or very ashamed of you. No matter how much you might try to instill your homophobia into them they will grow up in a world where ignorance and fear don’t run their lives like it’s run, and ruined, yours.
So go out and stand on a street corner with a big megaphone and scream every argument you can think of against marriage equality. We’ll just laugh at you and feel sorry for your kids.
Marriage is France, for example, is not and has never been a religious institution ,Marriages are conducted by licensed personnel and those who marry are then free to get their marriages blessed in religious institutions if they so wish.
Marriage was also never a religious act in the UK until the middle ages when religion hijacked it for their own purposes. And marriage laws have been changed on many occasions in the past. You must not forget that Henry VIII created the CofE so that he could divorce. You really do need to do your research Sam
Samuel B would you get in touch, we would love to hear your views and and stance on the one-sided action that the Government is currently taking, would you mind dropping an email to email@example.com
Martin Robbins got the response to Carey absolutely nailed in the Guardian today:
Read and applaud.
Suddenly the word bigot doesn’t seam enough. That article really upset me. Now I know we are lucky to live in a society that can challenge people like that.
Agreed. Compulsory reading for everyone.
An excellent article by Mr. Chinardet. I wonder though, will this reach the opposition? Maybe he should submit his piece to The Guardian and others? The Telegraph and Daily Hate Mail of course won’t since they have no concept of what balanced journalism is, merely yellow journalism.
Personally I am 100 percent happy at Carey’s comments.
It clearly shows the thought processes of these people.
Every national rag has jumped on it with abandon, however I note the Daily Hate is pulling back.
In my 30 years of coherent life in my 46 on this planet I have never seen anything so offensive.
This mans comments should be no less arrestable as any other hate speech.
I still can’t believe he actually compared being called out for bigotry to the early days of the Holocaust. It’s shockingly offensive on such a level that he’s basically destroyed any good thoughts anyone not carrying round similar anti-gay bigotry could have ever felt for him.
I think he’s scared of Gay people ! He believes that religon is the preserse of the stupid !fundementally anti – social , conservative , “oppressed” of the earth ! He sees the freedom of gay people as something that will errode the pillars of that world . He’s wrong ! No matter how strongly he feels His preconceptions are small . . .only Allah is great
I agree that the sooner this nonsense of a public consultation on whether we should be ALLOWED to marry or not is over – the sooner the mad barking will stop. All this “public consultation” is achieving is allowing the homophobes to spout their bigoted views in public-thereby stoking the flames of homophobia. Stop it NOW-by introducing marriage equality as soon as possible.
Agree totally, it shows poor leadership to let this small alliance of highly organised anti-gay hate groups C4M to continue with their divisive propaganda and manufactured controversy, why aren’t our political leaders Investigating and exposing the really extreme vision shared by these groups, not only to oppose and sideline LGBT’s in all areas of life but to also teach Creationism to children in our schools, to raise the age of consent, to ban all abortions even in the case of a rape, to introduce abstinence programmes instead of proper contraception information and education and more.
Don’t get too upset. Cary is just an ordinary, lightweight, rather pathetic homophobe. Let us just give him a little chuckle.
Carey speaks on behalf of the Church of England and Worldwide Anglican Communion (being retired he can say that things that the current AoC has to bite his tongue over) they are vastly wealthy and influential organisations which not only hold unelected seats in the UK legeslature, but in other countries where the church is more powerful they have ensured that homosexuality is criminalised and are pushing for more and more extreme punishments including state murder in for example Uganda. Don;t underestimate them
Bang on the mark Nicholas!
…there’s nothing to add.
Now that most of the World accepts that religious faith is a mental illness and delusion, is it not time to start a debate about the Right to religious freedom as is currently understood. I think the law should be changed, not to restrict freedom of thought or of religion in general but to restrict the public manifestation of it. By this i mean restrict religion to churches, mosques and temples and to the privacy of peoples homes. It should also be against the law for a politician to vote on laws and rights according to his deluded beliefs religion wise.This is the 21st century and the world is now largely secular and better than two thirds of the population are atheist or agnostic. Listening to the likes of old men like Williams, Carey and Ratzinger making pronouncements about the rights of people they have no connection with is quite frankly, sickening. It is time to start the debate and even if it should take years, restrict this delusion to where it belongs…History
Sadly I fear your most of the world is a massive overstatement.
We already knew that Carey had problems with keeping a sense of perspective or even possibly a grasp on reality.
Heh – spot on.
…How do you get the italics. I have been wondering how to Italicise for years and never found out how, and have been using upper case when I want to emphasise a word..?
Carey’s comments are deeply offensive to everyone but especially to innocent LGBT children.
A child growing up realising they are gay and then reading horrendous and sickening comments by a so called church leader could lead this child to depression, addiction problems, bullying etc…. when people spout homophobia, especially politicians, religious people etc they need to realise the damage they are doing not just to the wider society but to innocent LGBT children who are growing up in this world trying to realise their place. Every generation of LGBT people for hundreds of years have grown up with depression, addiction problems etc because society generally doesn’t accept us. It is now 2012 and I have had enough of people like Carey – I would love to square him up on his crimes – does he ever think of LGBT children before he opens his gob? Disgusting human being he is – making LGBT children feel like they are second class – again!!
Carey’s comments further prove how out of touch with reality he is.
Not only are his comments doing his arguments more harm than good, he is belittling all those who survived the holocaust.
The only problem is that unfortunately, there will be many who will take his comments on board
Nicolas, that’s a fine piece you’ve written. (Fine English as well – I particularly like your line “his interventions on the subject of marriage equality show him as not only hysterical with paranoia but also perniciously mendacious.”)
Submit this piece to The Guardian and The Independent.
I agree – so often the Pink News comment stuff is poorly written and argued. Not this time!
Let Carey have his view – the majority can then see him and his supporters for what they are.
So when exactly is marrying equality going to be introduced? Does anybody know?