So after how much harm during that wretched “consultation” process, he now seeks to wash his hands clean?
Yes, Williams, as the leader of the church the harm done to LGBT people is on YOUR shoulders and you don’t get to shrug that off as you leave to retire once the harm has already been done.
A vile man trying to escape his own legacy. No chance.
He is not a vile man. He was just weak. Not vile.
I’ll go with vile. Supporting, encouraging and speaking for bigotry is vile.
To call him a vile man lacks reality.
….Vile is an apt descriptive for one who so willfully cast pain and suffering on those of his “flock” who stuck with the God Delusion through thick and thin. We all knew he knew better but he chose to follow the “party” line as it were and now as someone else said he wishes to wash his hands of the pain suffering and indeed death caused by his callous disregard for the harm his vile stance caused. how many young people entered death rather than live lives this man considered worthless and disordered and unworthy of the rights and privileges afforded to the rest of society. In my opinion “Vile2 is hardly a strong enough descriptive to describe this weak and false man….
Frankly, you are as despicable for your seeming support for such a monster. Think of those who are no longer with us because of his unchristian, hate filled and homophobic stance, including those murdered because of his words…..
….Vile is an apt descriptive for one who so willfully cast pain and suffering on those of his “flock” who stuck with the God Delusion through thick and thin. We all know he knew better, but he chose to follow the “party” line as it were, and now as someone else said, he wishes to wash his hands of the pain suffering and indeed death caused by his callous disregard for the harm his vile stance caused. How many young people entered death rather than live a life this man considered worthless and disordered and unworthy of the rights and privileges afforded to the rest of society. In my opinion “Vile” is hardly a strong enough descriptive to describe this weak and false man….
Frankly, you are as despicable for your seeming support for such a monster. Think of those who are no longer with us because of his unchristian, hate filled and homophobic stance, including those murdered because of his words…..
Your reality is flawed, he’s a vile , weak, evil man.
@Paddy Agreed, any idiot who sympathises with this monster in any way , is equally disgusting.
You are all really stupid. He is neither vile nor evil. Just wrong.
You are as stupid as the religious extremists that you so detest – declaring unreal things to be real.
When you’ve finished being an apologist, consider that the behaviour of his church – which is under his control as the Archbishop – gave credibility and permission to the hateful.
The kind of anti-LGBT behaviour that had been waning flared right back into life as his church worked on whipping up the mob.
That behaviour makes life less safe for LGBT people because people are given de facto support by the church for the negative behaviours.
Did you not see the bile and venom being spewed? The language that LGBT youth – as the most vulnerable amongst us – was exposed to? Did you see him at ANY point demand that all discourse be civil or rational? Did you see him at ANY point realise that he both by endorsing anti-LGBT behaviour – and failing to act when it became rife – endangered people?
He is the epitome of vile, through both his actions and his utter spineless apathy. A culture of authority approved negativity harms us.
I must agree that he is vile. His behaviour towards GLBT people before his resignation was knowingly cruel. He has proved this by the face-saving statements he makes now at this ineffective time. He is a highly educated man and does not have ignorance as an excuse. Vile.
This man’s moral cowardice is in a class of it’s own.
He might do well to reflect on Peter and the crowing cock.
And yet he’s still in post – it’s not too late to stand up and show a bit of backbone. But he won’t.
Too little, too late.
I actually think Williams is good guy struggling with the issue of marriage. You have to give them time, and bit by bit they gradually come over. They need the time and slow progress to get over their embarrassment.
Surely he can’t be that dense as to actually believe what he is saying can he? And then to try to spread the blame around to the rest of society in general, but not the church in particular, is really outrageous.
I do think we need to recognise that it is part of a very wide problem whereby many people have been regarded as “no account” (or “little people”) and everyone else has broadly been allowed to do as they will against us. This very much propped up churches since “no account” people often joined in order to become part of something which had power, and in turn the churches had an interest in perpetuating the system. Women, and L&G, gaining some rights has upset that and some churches don’t have mechanisms to accommodate it. We are also, right now, also seeing that children are still “no account”; forced into religions, not protected or believed by the police or other authorities. Williams failed all the “little people”, some of whom Jesus, according to accounts that may not be reliable of course, seems like he would have spoken up for.
Instead of the church being welcoming to all peoples, it has decided to entrench itself in promoting bigotry and prejudicial comment toward LGBT people. We washed our hands of the church many years ago, even when the local vicar offered to ‘purge away our sin’. We have only one life and we sure are going to live it to its fullnes. Whenever we hear the church spouting bilge about us, we think of the young LGBT people wanting to come out to their families with pride, but are afraid to.
You had your chance to make a difference Rowan. You chose not to.
Save your breath. History has already judged you now.
Or you have.
History and I are not mutually exclusive.
It’s all a bit pompous.
Yeah, I’m such an Internet bully aren’t I?
..and rightly so. This vile monsters legacy will live long after he is a sad and anomalous footnote in history and will only be remembered for his homophobic hatred of those he professed to “love”……
You’re such a bitter old idiot. He is not evil or a monster.
religion really has phuct up what little brain you were born with DeVilliers. You keep saying this but you provide no counter points What in your feeble deluded opinion makes this man anything other than vile homophobic and abusive…? i await your answer with bated breath, but am alas not convinced we will get anything concrete from you other than that which you have already whined….
He keeps saying “we” at places he ought to be saying “I.”
So he can say what he really thinks now he’s retiring. He saw his job as keeping the diverse church together at all costs. But that involved appeasing bigots from Africa and Little England. He was a Committee chairman when what was needed was someone prepared to take a lead and explain the facts.
I am hoping that when he is no longer the Archbishop of Canterbury- Rowan will “come clean” and say what heREALLY thinks about LGBT people. After all-he no longer has to ‘keep it all together’ then. He can be true to himself and say what he really thinks.
Just like his predecesor, Carey!!!! What a slime-bucket HE is!
Who cares. He’s a wishy washy, ineffectual old turd. He stabbed us all in the back and now he’s trying to appear “merciful”.
Well he’s spot on, but far too late.
As a gay Christian, and member of the CofE, it’s only now – at 21 – that I am beginning to feel happy in who I am, having undertaken my own research and study of the Bible over the last eight months.
The message the Church is giving out can cause serious mental anguish to its gay followers. Even now that I feel confident that the true message has been misunderstood, and feel that nothing in the Bible does forbid homosexual relationships, I still have hang ups that continue to dig inside me – remnants of the false message that’s been spread by fools.
The Christian message is not the enemy of LGBT people. The Church, sadly, is. Those within it who support LGBTs need to start standing up and have the confidence to cast doubts over the arguments spread by homophobes.
I hope to be part of that fight, but if well respected senior members of the Church spoke out more it would make a massive difference.
Not sure when I last heard a ‘Christian’ preach Christ’s message – maybe if I’d lived 2,000 years ago, I’d have been in luck….If Williams couldn’t even stand up for LGBT minorities with argument, it’s hard to imagine him asking to be crucified up side down for his faith….
You are absolutely spot on of course. I may be a Christian, and I may attend a CofE Church, but I am in no way oblivious to it’s enormous faults.
The Church is in a terrible state at the moment. Not every part by any means – I know a lot of Christians who deserve the name Christian – but likewise I know a lot of ‘Christians’ who I doubt every pray, reflect, or open their minds to rethinking their beliefs in any way.
I still believe the Church has an incredibly important part to play, and I would always fight for the existence of an imperfect Church rather than no Church at all, but unless it refocuses and rethinks its purpose it will be in a very sorry state indeed within the next few decades. As a Christian I think if Jesus returned now he’d been very disappointed in what the Church has become.
With a heavy heart I don’t see that any of the potential new Archbishops will lead that change. I sincerely hope I am proven wrong.
You should embrace Atheism . . . there is no God, and I hope that you will free yourself from the bondage of Christianity.
These weak willed people can still believe in god , jesus and all the rest, they just are hypocritical belonging to a business organisation like the CofE and supporting its hate filled bigoted dogma by their membership.
There is no need to divorce yourself from theoretical Christianity. The precepts laid down in the teaching of the MAN called Jesus of Nazareth, are extremely sound principles for living an honourable and happy life. It is the way in which those precepts have been twisted and shredded to serve the political ambitions of his followers that seriously hinder the process of trying to live in an “Imitation of Christ”!
By any means think of me as weak for not having the courage, as yet, to actually stand up publically for my beliefs. I’m guilty.
But please do not think of me as weak for my Christian beliefs – that I totally reject. It would be extremely easy for me to stop actively following the beliefs.
It takes an awful lot of strength to actually keep my faith, especially when I see the state of the organisation I belong to. But I belong to another charitable group – non religious or LGBT – and it too is run by a group of people totally inept at organising it, who are far too self-important.
I belong to that group because I believe in its core belief and, in some small way, I hope my presence will make a difference. It would have been extremely easy to walk away and leave the fight to them. But I want to be able to say “I did all I could.”
If we are to get along then Christians should not feel sorry for, or look down on, members of the LGBT community. But that applies vice versa too.
@private , you need help mate, you sound so sheepishly brainwashed.
@rapture Just so I understand, where do you feel my opinions are the result of brainwashing, and who do you believe did this brainwashing?
I’m just curious because – knowing my own circumstances – I’m struggling to think of anyone who has brainwashed me. Some of my family are religious, some are not. I agree on some things with them, I disagree on others. While I respect the leadership of my local Church, I take what they say as a human interpretation and opinion, and only use it as part of a mix of sources which I study to come to my personal conclusions. I would always put my own interpretation of the Bible above the teaching of the Church, so I don’t feel brainwashed even by the institution itself.
I’m struggling to think of a single person or body that has brainwashed me at all, and I’m interested to see why you feel I have been.
If you’re simply anti-religion, and I’m not saying you are as I don’t know, how is that any different from a ‘Christian’ being homophobic out of hand?
I think if all Christians were as upfront, pragmatic and understanding as Private, we wouldn’t be even having this conversation.
you just “being there” won’t make the difference unless you challenge the leadership on it – perhaps the organised religion needs to be disassembled and let people practice in private – maybe then will hatred disappear.
@James You are quite right that my ‘being there’ does not help unless I do something.
A lack of confidence, and the fact that my personal situation at this moment in time is not ideal, hold me back from fighting publically at this time, but I hope to be able to change this and am quietly working towards that time. Eventually I hope to be heavily involved in the fight.
In the mean time I work hard in the hope that I will gain a certain amount of respect from my own community. Then, when I’m ready, I hope people (at least locally) will take me more seriously – thus my delaying won’t be a complete waste.
As to private worship – I accept there would be many benefits, but a public Church (when run well) can be a massive benefit to the local and worldwide community. The Church is also there when people need it – at times of bereavement etc. – which is why I believe in a public and open building. God should be avaliable for anyone who wants to find him.
my dear @ 21 i feel very much concern about, i just want to know is Romans 1:1-end part of this eight months bible study? whatever you answer is i do suggest you reread it again with more open mind. i do like to know you more thanks.
Well I’m not sure this is quite the place, and with the limit on how much I can write it’s difficult to go into detail, but that particular passage – and other similar ones – are some of the most widely misinterpreted ones in my view.
“Men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.” Note the references to abandoning their natural relations, and the reference to lust. These are heterosexual men engaging in homosexual acts out of nothing but lust. That’s what’s condemned here, not a loving, natural act between homosexuals.
The big quote – “man shall not lie with another man as he does with a woman” (“on the bed of a woman” in the literal translation) is the same – I believe these passages speak against heterosexual men engaging in homosexual acts through lust, in the same way I don’t personally think they should engage in extra/pre-marital sexual relations with women.
A homosexual is perfectly entitled to follow their natural instincts.
The bloody church is not elected, and does not govern the country…so Williams and all other bigots…why don’t u shut the F*** up…crawl in a hole somewhere and just perish…
True, but they’re allowed (26 bishops) to sit in the House of Lords and have a say in legislation affecting LGBT people, and the majority of those clerics are mostly against us. That’s why Lords reform is absolutely necessary short of abolition altogether which I support, but at least make it an electable, democratic body. I can’t for the life of me believe that the British public would want to vote for a bishop to represent them since the majority of the population isn’t religious or worships regularly if at all.
If they made the HoL elected they would probably reserve so many seats for faiths, and we would have lost what is at present the only place where intended legislation gets carefully examined by people with relevant expertise. Besides, the HoC will never allow another place that could compete with itself on grounds of democratic credentials.
An elected HoL is one of the most impractical of LibDem policies.
Its like speech of Elisabeth after death of Diana: no sincerity, but very high quality of actress/actor indeed.
Straight people have straight sex and gay people have gay sex, get over it you religious twerp.
Lots of straight people also have what could be construed as gay sex, Pavlos. For instance billions of peasants practice anal sex as a means of contraception…..
Most religions have been trying to catch up with reality and failed miserably. I don’t know what the ‘long time’ the archbishop mentions means, but are we talking decades or centuries?
Either way, it’s too long. How about today?
MAD OLD MAN !
That comment keeps making me laugh. So spot on.
This man has been one gigantic fail – not up to the job he should have said no when offered it.
“It is not just the church it is also a climate of homophobia which still exists in our society, we still have work to do.”
A climate this bigot and his ilk create and add to every day. It is the church. The church is one of the biggest champions of homophobia and has opposed every last attempt for equality we’ve ever had, all the while championing hatred.
This man is retiring and is now desperately trying to resume his mantle of fluffy liberal after a tenure of bigotry and hatred. He’s trying to distance himself from the pain he caused and the guilt he has.
Oh blimey!!!! Finally the church has woken up! Didn’t take long did it????
You, should donate a serious amount of money to a gay rights charity. Something like £2.5 million would be appropriate. No, don’t tell me you can’t afford that, use some of the money you’ve been given by religious nutcases!
I can’t believe you’ve only just realised the hurt you have caused. You should have realised this ages ago… An apology now would help a tiny bit, but the good old church has its work cut out to appease us fully.
Tell your other followers/believers/preachers to do likewise.
If he want to make amends, he should be a real leader and announce his support for equal marriage before he goes.
When he was first appointed 10 years ago there was hope he would manage a change in approach. Sadly he failed. He did do immense harm. I can now say that i wouldn’t cross the threshold of a church. They are as my mother used to say ‘a right shower!!’
I think he’s done immense harm to gay people. Just look at how he has treated his so-called ‘friend’ Jeffrey John over his nominations to become a bishop! And look at the anti-gay covenant he had written especially to block people like Bishop Gene Robinson, the first gay bishop in America. Jesus said that you will know people by their fruit. It’s these actions that make him a homophobe not some weasel words as he’s leaving office. His proposal and subsequent writing of the covenant has put gay equality in the Anglican Communion back decades. The man is a hypocrite. Good riddance.
He was in charge, in theory.
He authorised the submission against equal marriage, which was indeed vile and hate-filled.
He must accept responsibility for the pain and suffering inflicted whilst he was in charge. People with integrity tell those who are supposed to follow them to do so, or get out, and if those people don’t follow and won’t moderate their behaviour, then if you are in charge you leave yourself.
I do have some respect for Williams, BUT, he has let others dictate to him, he’s incredibly weak, and that was his failing.
….”I do have some respect for Williams” … based on what exactly. Williams is nothing more than a vile wishy washy academic with respect for no one or anything other than his ancient book of murder, infanticide, misogyny, homophobia, slavery and a myriad of other vile fables from 4000 years ago. I fear your respect is greatly misplaced.
As an Episcopalian in the US I can tell you that his words ring hollow from my perspective. He banded an openly gay bishop from the US from the Lambeth Conference, came over to the US and verbally abused our House of Bishops for not forcing the anti-gay and anti-women thing on the Episcopal Church (our church polity allows our bishops to be elected by their own diocese and our national church is governed by elected members who are both lay and clergy). When our presiding bishop, who happens to be a very bright woman came to preach in England, he forbade her wearing her bishop’s hat (she carried it instead). Rowan Williams was thought by many progressives within the Anglican Communion to be a great person to step into the role of AC, instead he has stood by homophobic bishops in the southern regions of the world (many GLBT persons have been harmed or killed because of this moral stand). I say good riddens.
I hope the Episcopalians have the courage to break with Canterbury. A schism is long overdue and necessary. Williams and his ilk are christian in name only and do not live by the teachings of Jesus Christ who never preached one word of hatred or condemnation of gay people. I am an atheist and I’ve seen more of the christian spirit among people who aren’t even christians or believers. The mainstream denominations have done more harm and will continue to do more harm the longer they oppose and denigrate our relationships as well as our humanity. No apology will ever be enough in my view and I don’t see one coming either because the majority of them are not really christians in any way shape or form, but moreover, hypocrites.
From other reports I’ve read it sounds Williams is still pushing the ” love the sinner hate the sin” baloney, in other words gays not condemned for being of gay orientation but for acting upon it, same old homophobic bilge.
Exactly. ‘I am so sorry that we have caused you pain for attacking who you are, and we really shouldn’t do it. But I’m really not going to challenge or openly disagree with anyone in my club who condemns, denigrates and devalues a principal expression of who you are’.
Basically, another condescending bigot who needs to believe that he is a nice guy. They are often the most dangerous type.
If one is called to be a Church Leader, one’s life is proscribed by liturgical teachings. Interesting the most important of these teachings is to live one’s life in the “Imitation of Christ”; thus to be a beacon, a guide and a shepherd of a “flock”. Central to this role in society is the teaching of Christ and the learned Commentaries on that teaching that have illuminated the way to Salvation!
OOOOOPS! The whole process grinds to a halt at this point! People like Rowan Williams are constrained by the modern-day “Romans” that have control. Rowan Williams has failed dismally in being the strong, persuasive “Shepherd” (Crook in hand) guiding his flock through the dark valleys of doubt and fear; he has allowed himself, instead, to be led by the nose by the luxurious plutocrats of modern society in order than he may live a comfortable life and look forward t a comfortable retirement. By his words he has condemned multitudes to lie uneasily in cold graves. HYPOCRIT!
Do you have anything to say which is relevant to this article?
And what does the church have to look forward to, the possible John Sentamu as its leader, so I think we can safely say it is doomed.
Furthermore, they did not need David Cameron to embarrass them, they are doing a good enough job all by themselves.
I can’t figure out exactly what the CoE’s embarrassment was all about can you? It’s bad enough Nick Clegg apologised for something he never said to the religious nutters. Rowan’s statement is really questionable and insincere. If he were that concerned, he would have done something about it a lot sooner but he hasn’t and won’t, nor will his successor. In fact, it will be more hardline than ever since the equal marriage debate began. The writing was on the wall when Williams ordered CP’d clergy to remain celibate. The business of bigotry as usual. Leopards never change their spots and neither will the CoE as it continues on its path to irrelevance and self-destruction, but not soon enough.
Well done for calling a goat a goat. Next, he might actually try to do something about it. This admission is not brave; it’s pointing out the blatantly obvious. The church also causes plenty of physical pain through its teaching, but that *shocking* revelation will have to wait for another time.
do unto others as you would yourself.
Nobel prize winner Archbish Tutu for Canterbury!
No just disband the whole rotten mess…
So now your willing to tweek your fear based control mechanism on our behalf. Im ever so glad.
Let us pray for the trustees of crusaid and their email to their hiv staff “pain n suffering to alot of people get another job” in 2004 and the payoff to keep their dirty sordid secretd with charity money
Let us pray for the police panel member who helped crusaid staff regain their benefits after they terminated their contract with crusaid after gay men were being forced to have their aids diagnosis in their staff appraisals
Let us pray the trustees of crusaid will one day act like adults and apoligise to their hiv staff for the 2004 email “get another job” and the £90,000-00 wasted on closing down ukc is repaid to people with aids
Please do the right thing and take a long walk off a very short pier.
As a gay person that is a Christian and goes to an Anglican church.. To be honest for me it’s too late.
You can’t drum negativity into someone then think just empty words will fix it.
If you feel this evil man who is leader of the anglican church in england is wrong , then why are you a member of the same business organisation? hypocrisy.
Let us pray the people with hiv abandoned in aids charity ukcs collapse in 2007 one day get the support they so desperatly nerd ?
Thanks for this article and your reporting. What you do is appreciated.
I posted it to my LGBT Group on LinkedIn to spur members to read your article and to make comment. I also scooped it at Scoop.It on my LGBT Times news mashup.
Link to group >> http://www.linkedin.com/groups/LGBT-Gay-GLBT-Professional-Network-63687/about
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So the wretched old turn coat tries to explain the harm he has done to gay people. Away with you .You will be rembered for what you are. A so called friend who renegaded on us.
From a life long paid up member of the C of E
Dear dennis velco the hiv media has been denying gaymen with hiv a voice since 2005 stopped us communicating with each other and tried to stop the “sordid truth” and the millions regrettably raised for people living with hiv/aids never making it only a former police panel member has been honest read the comments on the historical crusaid festures on thiswebsite we all owe pinknews a great debt in allowing us a voice – never has so much been owed to so few by so many ACT UP LONDON
And they are still not doing anything to rectify the situation.
Dunno…think a history of burning people at the stake probably counts as physical pain too…just sayin’, Rowan.
Shaming that the crown-appointed most senior churchman in the UK has a chronic inability to take responsibility for his actions.
He says nothing about the same harm as with the current stand against equal marriage was caused when the church insisted on excluding women like me from church weddings on grounds of having been transsexual, from 2004 and ongoing.
The Bishop of London may have commended Rowan as having one of Europe`s most formidable intellects.
Sorry but anyione with plain common sense would have seen the irretrievable damage the politically-appointed spokes`man` for a loving God has done to LGBT people.
Shame on you, Archnbishop.