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Equal marriage defeat for Northern Ireland

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  1. Religion poisons everything.

    1. Indeed, it’s amazing how only 42 people can make so many more unhappy.

    2. Jen Marcus 2 Oct 2012, 12:11pm

      You practically took the words right out of my mouth but I would put it more directly! I would say “Religion IS Poison!

    3. its going to take time. re US evan lutherans it took 3 confereces to adopt gays marrying and gay ministers in reltiaonships

      for Presbyterian USA (most lib of the 3 branches – on the second vote only about 12 votes = 2% separated it from doing as per the Evan Luths. And they are doing gaymarriages anyway.

  2. very sad… as a gay teenager i look forward to the day when I will not only have the option to marry where i live, but also have my marriage recognized universally

  3. Hmmm, that’s puzzling, such a progressive society as well?

  4. “Only three unionist assembly members out of 45 voted in favour of the motion.”

    How sad that such bigotry remain. Alas it is not surprising.

  5. Suddenly Last Bummer 1 Oct 2012, 7:15pm

    That’s the North of Ireland for you. A cesspit of intolerance, bigotry and hatred.

    1. *Northern Ireland

      1. Yes, there is a difference between “Northern Ireland” and “the north of Ireland”. Part of the north of Ireland is part of the republic.

  6. I have to say I’m shocked. Normally in countries where religion is a high profile social feature human rights are at the forefront.

  7. GulliverUK 1 Oct 2012, 7:17pm

    Unbelievable. A law designed to protect minorities has been used to ensure that minority rights are denied. What sort of f-ing jiggery pokery is this !

    The backward-thinking narrow-minded vile haters from the extremist al-Qaeda wing of the Presbyterian nutters cult has prevailed, and Ireland looks like its just re-affirmed that it’s operating with values from the 1500s, not 21st century.

    Ofcourse they may well pay a significant price for this, and I hope their unemployment levels aren’t too high, because companies will look at this place and be very wary of setting up shop there, because they won’t be able to attract skilled workers who happen to be gay. If you get married in Scotland or the UK ….. who would be mad enough to move to Ireland to work there and find their married is null and void upon arrival at the airport.

  8. “The church warned that marriage for same-sex couples would “effectively demolish” generations and centuries of societal norms.”
    That might be why the vote was split largely along nationalist/unionist lines. For the nationalists “societal norms” means living under what amounts to foreign rule. They would do anything to oppose such a notion.

  9. Paul in Brighton 1 Oct 2012, 8:07pm

    I’m not surprised. Saddned, but not suprised.

  10. “The church warned that marriage for same-sex couples would “effectively demolish” generations and centuries of societal norms.”

    Oh dear, musn’t destroy “societal norms” not in NI, that haven of peace and harmony and giant murals. It’s worrying that whoever said that was unaware of the irony.

  11. why can this not be taken to the European Court?

    1. You are getting a bit ahead of things. This was only a motion for debate, not a legislative step.

      PN really should have been more clear about the context, and also stated how legislation for equal marriage in the province would not really be affected by it.

  12. I think we should all go to Scotland.

    1. Let us not be too cocksure that Equal Marriage will be passed in Scotland, either!

      I know Northern Ireland is a sadly exceptional place but what has happened there regarding Equal Marriage could well happen in England and Scotland where there are similarly hell-bent religious factions, Christian, Muslim, and so forth, at work against us.

      1. The difference in Scotland though is that it has been confirmed that there are about 80 MSPs in favour of the move, 10 against and 40 undecided. And in Westminster Labour is whipping the vote, alongside 50 Libs and 100 liberal Tories……bringing in about 350 guaranteed votes – well over a majority.

        This is a pretty resounding defeat when you look at the fact only half of Alliance members felt like showing up and a dominant segment of the political culture almost unanimously towed the party line. I wouldn’t go as far as to say that all Unionist citizens in N.I. agree with this, but the DUP is far more plugged in to society than the SNP or Labour is on the British mainland.

        I agree that it’s a sad day either way

        1. Robert in S. Kensington 2 Oct 2012, 2:18pm

          Yes, it is a sad day indeed. However, I hope you are right in regard to the situation in the rest of the UK. 350 guaranteed votes would be superb, but then we have that other final obstacle to get over, the House of Lords.

          1. The House of Lords is an annoying triviality.

            If they block marriage equality then it must IMMEDIATELY be reintroduced.

            The House of Lords needs to be scrapped and replaced with a democratically elected upper house.

        2. @Max

          While 74 (I think) MSPs have signed the Equal Marriage pledge it doesn’t guarantee they’ll vote for it in the end. My local constituency MSP (who’s with the SNP) backtracked from being in favour of equal marriage and intending to vote for it before the consultation to now being undecided due to various issues raised. She said she’d decide once the consultation results were published & the Scot Gov made their decision but she still won’t say how she’ll vote. I think it very unlikely that it won’t pass in the Scottish Parliament, but it’s not impossible.

  13. That There Other David 1 Oct 2012, 9:44pm

    Not really surprising this, all in all. However, I do wonder if we’re now becoming part of Sinn Fein’s attempt to reach beyond its history and paint the Unionists as being of the past at the same time. As such, whilst I’m glad of their support I do have to question whether they would have brought this motion up if they’d held a Stormont majority.

    Sorry if that comes across as negative. Politicians always bring out the inner cynic.

    1. Sinn Féin and Irish Republicans have always focused on equal rights. Their raison d’etre is the creation of a 32 county Republic based upon the principles of the 1916 Proclamation and the 1918 Democratic Programme of the first Dáil i.e. equal rights for all in a free and united Ireland! To suggest that SF would not have brought this motion forward if they were the majority is wrong. The have brought numerous other marriage equality motions before Irish councils over the past year and saw them passed, many in their rural heartlands. This is about equality – independence movements born out of struggle differ greater from the establishment parties.

      1. Unless of course you are Protestant or an Orange Man. The you are not allowed to walk down public streets and Sinn Fein back residents groups with their ‘no Orange Feet on OUR streets’ mantra. This effectively creates ghettos and fans the flames of intolerance and denounces human rights for all. We have yet to see any effects of this Ireland of Equals they talk about.

    2. Sinn Féin and Irish Republicans have always focused on equal rights. Their raison d’etre is the creation of a 32 county Republic based upon the principles of the 1916 Proclamation and the 1918 Democratic Programme of the first Dáil ie equal rights for all in a free and united Ireland! To suggest that SF would not have brought this motion forward if they were the majority is wrong. The have brought numerous other marriage equality motions before Irish councils over the past year, many in their rural heartlands. This is about equality – independence movements born out of struggle differ greater from the establishment parties.

  14. Not meaning to put a cat among the pigeons here but…

    The people opposed to this are unionists – people who identify as British.

    The nationalists – those who identify as Irish – support it.

    Just pointing that out.

    1. That There Other David 1 Oct 2012, 10:38pm

      That goes back to my previous post though. Although it’s more complicated over there due to the power sharing it may just be a similar story to that in England and Wales. The ones in power do nothing but block equality, whilst the ones in opposition are all for it….whilst they’re in opposition.

      I’ll be the first to wave the green, white and gold if Sinn Fein bring this to NI, but right now it’s all very good PR with no results.

      1. I think it’s different in Ireland, SF draws the vast majority of support in the North from the Catholic population who remember vividly what second class citizenship was like. All Nationalist reps. (SF and SDLP) present voted in support of the motion. All Unionists bar three voted against. Whilst I understand your scepticism of politics, independence movements like that of SF or their sister organsiations like the ANC, Bildu in the Basque country or ERC in Catalonia and so on, do differ from the establishment type of politics.

  15. a,nus is for exit only 1 Oct 2012, 10:36pm

    HA HA

    1. That There Other David 1 Oct 2012, 10:41pm

      Oh just sod off you fool

    2. GulliverUK 1 Oct 2012, 11:19pm

      a,nus,
      if you continually bait and try to cause alarm and distress to people on this board I will simply pick up the phone and report the matter to the police. Continuous harassment is an offence under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, as well as the numerous public order offences you are committing.

      Don’t be fooled. I’m more than happy to put a stop to your constant abuse of the LGBT community. Your IP is tracked in the server logs, and even if you use proxy servers, there are ways to identify you — take it from someone with 25 years IT experience, and who has had to carry out those types of investigations from time to time.

      This is the last warning you will receive from me.

  16. I imagine like all gay reform in NI they will eventually be directed by Westminster to bring the law in line with Great Britain. The same things goes for the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.

    1. GulliverUK 1 Oct 2012, 11:22pm

      Yes. They’re just putting off the inevitable.

  17. Since we can only testify from what we’ve experienced ourselves, all I’ll say is the following. Being a former (Scottish) Protestant, and having many ‘lapsed’ Catholic boyfriends….their families in every case have been more speedily enlightened to LGBT issues than mine.

    Maybe it’s because they’re sickened by their much more vocally nasty leaders? Whilst Protestants languish in a false sense of security that no one would really judge us if we walked through our Presbyterian hometown holding hands with a partner? I don’t know, but it’s definitely a division I’ve noticed.

    It’s being demonstrated by the Republic right now actually, with a delayed but much much quicker turn around in attitudes to LGBT people than the seemingly gentler CoE and CoS nations across the sea.

    I’m not someone who ever puts any importance on divisions of faith, but as an agnostic I look back and find this curious fact (in my own life) hard to ignore.

  18. GingerlyColors 2 Oct 2012, 6:54am

    Sadly, this can only be expected when political parties are elected along religious rather than economic lines. This should give the national government more reason to bring in marriage equality across the whole of the UK. Having said that the current political arrangements in Northern Ireland and the Stormont Assembly were born out of the Good Friday Agreement and no sane person wants a return to the Troubles that blighted the six counties for over three decades.

  19. A sad day for N.I

  20. Disturbing that the Belfast News Letter reports:

    “The DUP Finance Minister Sammy Wilson, whose department is responsible for registering marriages, stressed his, and his party’s, opposition to the proposal.

    “Dismissing claims that MLAs should legislate for all those who they represent, Mr Wilson said that “there are occasions when you cannot facilitate everybody’s needs”.

    “He said that if the legal definition of marriage was changed to allow for same-sex marriages then schools would have to teach that definition, something which could put teachers at odds with the authorities if they are Christians or members of other faiths which oppose same-sex marriage.

    “The East Antrim MP and MLA added that he could think of “very many more priorities” for legislation emanating from his department than the proposal to redefine marriage.”

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