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France: Equal marriage bill is criticised for “half-hearted equality”

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  1. i thought it was just a matter of extending existing law to gay couples

  2. I hope that they will make it full equality because expect nothing less from France.I hope hollande will listen to his base and take this bold step by simply ignoring the ignorants

  3. Pavlos Prince of Greece 15 Sep 2012, 7:29pm

    Yes, the Catholic mafia have long arms… But without success in this case, I hope!

    1. The problem is not the catholic mafia but the general ”fear” of the unknown wich is very suprising considering the very liberal social attitudes of the french

      1. de Villiers 16 Sep 2012, 10:18am

        Liberal social attitudes? You sound as if you have never lived in France. France is a very socially conservative society.

        1. I have had relatives who have studied in France and they found it liberal.I mean the president is unmarried and cohabitates with his girlfriend,Sarkozy divorced and remarried during his term so dont you find that liberal ??? What do you consider ”socialy conservative” ??

        2. de Villiers 16 Sep 2012, 5:53pm

          Jerry, you have no idea of French society and its conservatism. The lack of concern about girlfriends and wives of Presidents is itself a conservative view that what happens in private remains so. Sarkozy lost the election partly because he played in public.

          French society is very conservative and not at all liberal. It does not welcome foreigners to live, it does not welcome difference, and it is not at all dynamic.

          1. Your view of ”conservatism” is very mild and if you were so conservative the law would never have had the support of 63%-58% would it ??.I think what you mean is nationalism and anti-multiculturalism wich are different things.Have you seen italy and germany ??? Do you consider the more liberal ???

  4. Marriage and adoption by 2013?
    Yet the UK has to wait 2 more years. Why?

    1. Spanner1960 16 Sep 2012, 9:38am

      Because France started before us.

    2. Robert in S. Kensington 16 Sep 2012, 12:33pm

      Maybe because our government wants to get it right without imperfections, but I agree, it is taking far too long. You would think it would have used the CP legislation as a road map to implement faster passage of equal marriage given that almost all of the rights are identical to marriage. I fail to see why there is so much difficulty and time wasting. If’, when and how to introduce it make no sense. The public have already been told that no religious denomination will be forced to recognise or perform these marriages but those same denominations in opposition keep raising the issue to delay the inevitable. Interestingly, the French version doesn’t specify if denominations wishing to participate will be allowed to under its new legislation coming in October.

      1. Craig Nelson 17 Sep 2012, 1:13pm

        Marriage in France is entirely secular so denominations won’t be involved unless they wish to provide a religious ‘after’ service which is of course entirely up to them.

  5. Yes it needs to be full equality, but the quote saying that without medically assisted conception it is nearly impossible to have a baby is wrong. DIY home insemination with a trusted known donor is the norm for coparenting arrangements. Medically assisted conception applies people using anonymous sperm donors through clinics, which is one valid way for lesbains to get pregnant but not the only way.

    1. Suposing that you don’t even consider to tell lesbians that they can have a child if they guet one the “natural” way, wich would be hypocritical, there is just one possibility for them to have a child.
      But this possibility is verry rare, last case was verry well documented, about 2000 years ago, and christians really like to tell this story.

      So no, in France, the only way for lebians to get pregnant is via MAP, because they cannot have sperm even the one of a friend : it has to be the one of the husband, or an anonymous one only if the usband cannot procreate.
      It is stupid, but the medical staff can only provide help to procreate to a “live couple that is young enough to procreate”, couple being defined of course by “a man and a woman”.

  6. Pavlos Prince of Greece 16 Sep 2012, 12:14am

    Today French gay community have a absolutely historical and indeed very unique chance to make all wishes from last few decades real. But time for it is very short – not fife, just two years: today the gay friendly Socialists control all levels of power,- but 2014 France will held a partial elections to the Upper House, The Senate. Today the left bloc have there a very small, but absolute majority – for the first time in the history of the Fifth Republic, it means, since 1959. I remember, how difficult, both political and psychological, it was 1998-99 for the left government of Ms. Jospin under Conservative President J. Chirac to approve civil partnership law (‘Pacs’) against ‘veto’ from conservative-clerical majority in the Palais Luxembourg. It was needed to vote in Lower House even seven or eight times again and again, until, on the rule from the Constitution of 1959, this ‘veto’ has lost his judicial power. Change this time will be much more easy, but it must be very quickly…

  7. Maybe someone needs to explain to the French government a foreign, perhaps unfamiliar word: Egalite (!) If you’re married, your rights and responsbilities are identical vis-a-vis the government whether hetero or homosexual.

    1. I read somewere that there is a chance that the european court cold give a ruling wich requires full equality.The law has only to be challenget

  8. The bill does as it stand have a lot of “clout” and it’s rather hypocritical of GAYlib the equivalent of LGBTory to critize Hollande when Sarkozy did sod all for gay families.

    If MAP slows things down to a grinding halt then go for the bill as it stands and work on MAP at the same time or at a later date. Gay adoption and equal marriage rights which are much greater than those for PACS is a big step.

    In the UK if we can get equal civil marriage and then religious ones at a later date then great but any excuse to just slow things down or come to grinding halt is pointless, the same goes in France. Beware of dithering too long, the longer the church has to rally support the less chance of change at all.

    1. de Villiers 16 Sep 2012, 10:20am

      Gaylib is acting hypocritically and in a party political way. It is associated with the UMP and is seeking to criticise the PS.

    2. Robert in S. Kensington 16 Sep 2012, 12:28pm

      I agree, get it passed first and make any changes after the fact. I’d take the proposed legislation, imperfect as it is. Maybe that’s why ours is taking longer, the government want to get it right without any of the imperfections that we had with CP legislation. The religious nutters can rant all they want, they’re going nowhere since they’re not the majority and they’re not the government. The vitriole from them will increase as legislation nears a vote on both sides of the channel or chunnel.

      1. The UK has a simple change to do. We already (more or less) have the same rights as married couples. France is behind the UK in many ways. PACS has a lot less rights than married couples. They have to now decide/persuade everyone to give the same rights to gay people inlcuding adoption, inheritance, pension etc. The UK has settled all this when they did CPs, It ‘s now down to simply changing the name of CP to marrigae. Even religious marriages are being excluded. There is something quite frankyl suspicious about how slow the UK is. The questions in the consultation were failry mundane and petty, not earth shatterring and diffiuclt to resolve and could have been done via a bill and committee work. Thanks heavens Chis Bryant is going to do a mock 10 min bill on the 30th Oct to show how easy it is.

  9. Get on with the equal marriage law now and deal with MAP later.

  10. Pavlos Prince of Greece 16 Sep 2012, 1:54pm

    I was very negative surprised, that Minister of Justice, Ms. Taubira ( with origin from French oversee -department in Latin America) has announce the first concrete details from the planned same-sex marriage bill in the Catholic newspaper ‘La Croix”. Is it in France not enough more gay friendly or neutral papers and media than this owned by Catholic Church, no? Even Italy have ‘La Reppublica’ and Poland – ‘Gazeta Wyborcza’. What about ‘Liberation’, ‘Le Monde’ or France 2?

  11. Craig Nelson 17 Sep 2012, 1:11pm

    Medical assistance is very important. Is it clear though that it needs to be included in legislation? To be fair, I don’t know very much about the legal framework. It may be that this is a relatively straightforwards service provision decision that will flow from the change in partnership law (marriage, adoption and parenting) as well as France’s antidiscrimination law. Or alternatively it oucld be ammended as it progressses through the Parliament.

  12. Fake Drudge 17 Sep 2012, 8:23pm

    By “near impossible” she must mean “too icky to contemplate”. Being a lesbian doesn’t mean her plumbing is any different from any other womans.

    Upon realizing that when it comes to men and women, separate is NOT equal, she demands that the state make it so.

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