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Comment: Let me tell you all about ‘pinkwashing’

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  1. you mentioned Israel. any other counties? or is this just another anti Zionist tract

    1. What’s wrong with being anti-Zionist? We are talking about murdering civilians in order to expand your nation’s borders.

      1. mark young 5 Sep 2012, 7:30pm

        he didn;t way there was anything wrong it. who said there was anything wrong with it. why cant people just admit that they are, anti semitic when they are. are you anti semitic?

        1. So, pointing out that Israel murdered and displaced thousands of civilians just to gain more territory makes me anti-Semitic? It’s just a fact. I feel the same way about Israel’s acts of terrorism as I do about those of Indonesia in East Timor. It’s the same. It has nothing to do with the fact that they are Jewish.

        2. Spanner1960 6 Sep 2012, 9:59am

          You, like many others, love to confuse the difference between Israel and the Jewish people (be that a race or a religion).

          Just because somebody criticises Israel does not necessarily make them anti-Semitic.

      2. And how did islam spread out of Medina to Spain, France, Austria, Iran, India, Afghanistan? By the sword. Delusional left wing idiots oppose imperialism, except when it is done by muslims.

        If you apply different standards to jews than to other people, you are an anti-semite.

    2. So PinkNews gives a naive zoology student a place to articulate his ill-conceived views.

      Gay rights aside, the countries surrounding Israel have got terrible human rights records. It is illegal in Jordan to be a citizen and a jew. Saudi Arabia does not permit non-muslims to enter Mecca or Medina (before Mohammed’s army took over Medina, it was a jewish city – the naive fools gave Mohammed sanctuary). Too hold Israel to higher standards than other countries is simply jew-hatred on an international scale.

      The entire muslim world has rejected Universal Human Rights, saying that Sharia Law has priority. Under sharia law non-muslims are 3rd class citizens and slavery is legal.

      http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2012/04/23-cairo-kayaoglu

  2. GulliverUK 5 Sep 2012, 3:38pm

    Israel has moved towards being a predominantly secular society, although perversely it seems to be run almost as a theocracy in places. It seems straight couples, unless they want a religious ceremony, can’t marry, and have to go out of the country, get married, and when they come back they’re recognised as married ! Just bizarre.

    Palestine is nothing but a brutal anti-LGBT theocracy with an appalling human rights record, and whilst my initial response is …’lay off the little guy and stop bullying and persecuting them’, their record speaks for itself.

    It’s difficult to know who to support, but I don’t support Israeli attacks on Palestine, and I don’t support Palestine attacks on Israel. That has been going on longer than I’ve been alive, and will be the same long after I’m dead. But for supporting LGBT rights I admire Israel.

    1. Spanner1960 6 Sep 2012, 10:11am

      I agree with everything you say in principle, but the last line is a cop-out, and precisely why it appears this article was written. It’s fine if a country boils babies and commits genocide, but hey!, they are great with their gay rights, so they are a bunch of great guys to me.

      Without wishing to invoke the ghost of Godwin, I’m sure Adolf Hitler wasn’t all that bad because he was apparently very kind to animals.

      1. Alternatively, it should be possible to say “I admire a country for X but I don’t admire them for Y” – appreciating Israel’s record on LGBT rights doesn’t necessarily mean one automatically suspends all critical faculties with regard to other policies.

  3. Ben McMechan 5 Sep 2012, 3:41pm

    I’m not normally someone who would automatically jump to Israel’s defence, and will take your “definition” at face value (i.e. not specifically about Israel), but seriously, what other countries? In addition, it would be nice to live in a world where campaigns for human rights coexist and cross-campaign happily, but we don’t and it seems that campaigns for LGBT rights are often those most excluded from such umbrellas around the world. If we’ve learnt we have to stand on our own two feet to achieve our rights it’s from bitter experience.

  4. Spedding is a one man Palestine campaigner, a fact he neglects to mention in his article, I have no problem with him having opinions but if this phenomena exists he could do with taking it beyond his usual Israel bashing

  5. Samuel B. 5 Sep 2012, 4:10pm

    Brave article, Gary.

    The only reason Israel has gotten to be as powerful and armed to the gills with weaponry that it’s now threatening to unleash on Iran is due to the Zionists and their sympathisers who have assumed seats of power in all the world’s major Western democracies.

    Pink-washing is but one smoke screen used to send a message to the world that Israel is at heart a humanitarian country when in reality it is perpetuating many of the same atrocities suffered by Jews over centuries of malicious and murderous persecution.

    Zionism and Judaism is not the same thing, and many, many Jews are waking up and speaking out to voice their contempt and outrage over the barbarism carried in our names.

    Israel’s now banging the drums for war with Iran which will surely lead to WWIII as China and Russia will not sit back this time around and just let them and the US get on with it, ala Iraq.

    Israel is the enemy of the world, no matter how nicely it respects and treats its gay populace..

    1. Samuel B. 6 Sep 2012, 9:57pm

      Noam Chomsky: Why America and Israel Are the Greatest Threats to Peace

      http://www.alternet.org/world/noam-chomsky-why-america-and-israel-are-greatest-threats-peace

  6. mark young 5 Sep 2012, 4:19pm

    i was kinda interested, thinking ‘whats his point’, then I got to the jew bashing bit and thought, oh no, did you really have to write all that just so you could be anti semitic. funny how he doesn’t mention once how palestinians treat lgbt.

    1. Disagreement with Israeli government policy per se does not constitute “Jew bashing” or “anti-semitism”. Earlier in the article the author criticised Morocco’s human rights situation, does that make him a ‘Berber basher’ or anti-Islam?

      As for your last point, what bit of “those surrounding Muslim countries are horrifying to us LGBT people and the evil Palestinians persecute and hang us right” are you having difficulty understanding?

      1. mark young 5 Sep 2012, 5:58pm

        how stupid of me. I thought he was being facetious in the part you quoted. So I take your point that the palestinians and surrounding muslim countries are evil, which you obviously agree with too – that being that the palestinians are evil. I’m glad that scott thinks that the palestinians and the surrounding muslim countries are evil as well. I also think the palestinians and surrounding muslim countries are evil too, so I guess we both agree with him on that. If Palestinians and the surrounding muslims countries are evil, are israel more evil or less evil than the palestinians. or are they all equally evil? if so that would mean everyone is evil in the middle east. what a hell hole. as for your first point – if he accused every islamic state of their human rights situation, then yes it would make him anti islamic, but he doesnt. however he does accuse every jewish state of having poor human rights records, so yes it does make him anti semitic.

        1. Samuel B. 5 Sep 2012, 7:11pm

          What a very simplistic view you have of things.

          I don’t know about evil per se, but Israel is certainly the most aggressive, opinionated, trigger-happy and incendiary of all Middle Eastern countries.

          Witness the Palestinians, Lebanon and the current sabre-rattling over Iran for starters…

          1. mark young 5 Sep 2012, 7:23pm

            so you dont think israel is evil. but do you think that palestine and the surrounding muslim countries are evil like the guy who wrote the article thinks? and btw it wasnt me who first accused anyone of being evil, as has been pointed out to me, it was scott roberts who wrote the article who accused palestine and the surrounding muslim countries of being evil.

          2. Samuel B. 5 Sep 2012, 8:25pm

            What I’m saying is that to break things down into god or evil is very simplistic when this is such a complex issue.

            I am on your wavelength where your views on this issue are concerned, I just prefer using a bit more detail to validate my claims.

            Put it this way, there’s certainly nothing good about a state being aggressive, opinionated, trigger-happy and incendiary no matter how nicely it treats its gay populace.

            But as usual the humanitarian issue is voted down by the extremist faction who represent our sexuality on these boards – although way out of proportion to gay people as a whole – who demand gay rights matter above all else.

            All my gay mates see the issue clearly and know that Israel is a Zionist agent provocateur established to destabilise the Middle East and perpetuate endless wars, and uses the ordinary Jewish people going about their everyday lives, albeit with their heads stuck in the sand, as window dressing and fodder to deflect from the atrocities committed daily.

          3. Samuel B – while criticism of the policies of the israeli government is not inherently anti-Semitic, some of your comments here stray over that line (irregardless of whether you are Jewish or not) and have no place in any civilised discussion – describing Israel as “the enemy of the world” a “zionist agent provacateur established to destabilise the middle east and perpetuate endless wars” with “zionists and their sympathisers” as having “assumed seats of power in most of the major democracies.”

            It’s the “elders of Zion” writ large – the same libel employed in Germany in the 1930s and incidentally the same bile Hamas regurgitates today.

            You also speak of the Palestinians being ” driven off their own land so that Israel could be established,” which sounds to me like you mean more than the west bank and gaza. Does it follow then that you support Hamas’s to drive all the Jews into the sea? Or worse? Because they don’t distinguish between Zionists and “ordinary Jews” as you put it.

          4. ‘But as usual the humanitarian issue is voted down by the extremist faction who represent our sexuality on these boards – although way out of proportion to gay people as a whole – who demand gay rights matter above all else.’

            In other words the militant queens who whine about gay people being persecurted and murdered should stop being uppity. We should all meekly stick our heads in the nooses because we’re only poofs and our rights aren’t as important as proper people’s.

  7. A number of coutry’s have pro-gay laws, but do not really use them; and/ or have appaling human rights elsewhere. Just look at land and other rights for indiginous peoples in South America. (Argentina, Brazil et al); or South Africa, where gay rights are part of the constitution; but they have done little for anyone of any sexuality in the townships.
    Nepal has a pro-gay law, but look behind the facade into the hinterlands
    Australia has a large gay rights movement but look at the plight of the aborigines still…

  8. Israel: A secular society? This made see so if you are Jewish. But if you’re not, or not of the proper colour, you’re made to feel unwanted. And if you have children while in Isreal, and do not wish to raise them Jewish, you are asked to leave. Spain has the same attitude towards marriage as Israel. No marriage is recognised in Spain unless under the Catholic church. If you pay attention to media sources outside of the US, and the BBC here in UK, there will be plenty of human rights abuses in the name of Israel.

    1. Civil marriage exists in Spain for all – straights & LGBT. I know as I married my husband here in 2007. Fewer people are having catholic marriages in Spain.

    2. Gonzalo Spain 5 Sep 2012, 8:27pm

      Excuse me?! What world do you live in?! Both Catholic and civil marriage exists for EVERYBODY, LGTB and straight people, in Spain since many years ago (gay marriage since 7 years ago if I’m not wrong). Outrageous! Anti-Hispanic propaganda! LOL Spain is by far the most open-minded and tolerant country in Europe towards LGTB people.

      1. Gonzalo Spain 5 Sep 2012, 9:09pm

        I’ve got the data here: there’s civil marriage in Spain since 1870 and gay marriage (adoptions and full rights) since 2005 and homophobia is considered to be a crime in the Penal Code. The information given to you was clearly wrong.

  9. Gary Spedding 5 Sep 2012, 4:39pm

    This will be my only comment on this article as it isn’t my policy to respond under something I have written.

    I wrote this article with the hopes of creating a working definition of Pinkwashing that can be applied to various situations so people can see for themselves whether any particular country is engaging in Pinkwashing.

    My hope was that the audience reading this article would look past the mentioning of Israel to understand that it’s perhaps flawed to judge an entire country based on limited criteria of one particular area of rights.

    Using Israel as the example doesn’t mean I ignore or refuse to talk about the genuine issues faced by LGBT Palestinians – I have been in regular contact with Al-Qaws (Palestine’s largest LGBT org) reviewing the seriousness of the issues faced.

    Accurately identifying that Israel uses a PR trick when it comes to the LGBT community is not Israel bashing and most certainly isn’t anti-Semitic.

    Comments so far have been interesting!

    1. mark young 5 Sep 2012, 6:44pm

      Do palestinians use PR tricks too?

    2. GulliverUK 6 Sep 2012, 8:18am

      It be that people had heard of pinkwashing before just as applied to a company, or political party, but not really to a whole country, and it was difficult to figure that out.

      I think we’re so exposed to pinkwashing day in day out that perhaps we don’t think too deeply about it, I know I don’t.

      I don’t give a figg if Cameron really believes two men or two women should have equal marriage rights to others, as long as he passes legislation to do that. I will have a lot more respect for him if he genuinely believes in this, and I was thinking he did, but with the recent changes in the cabinet I’m not wondering if he was pinkwashing. If he passes it and later says he didn’t believe that, I’ll know he was pinkwashing – just trying to grab our votes for political gain.

      Pinkwashing isn’t a bad thing —- as long as you get what you want out of it, but it is obviously a dishonest practice since it isn’t based on a truthful exposure of one’s true position.

  10. Samuel B. 5 Sep 2012, 4:48pm

    We are hypocrites if we defend Israel on the basis of how it treats its gay populace considering how heavy-handed bordering on racist it is in its treatment of African asylum seekers under the Israeli Government’s emergency Operation Returning Home programme:-

    http://www.economist.com/node/21556279

    http://nvonews.com/2012/06/13/israel-throws-out-illegal-african-migrants/

    http://mondoweiss.net/2012/05/video-israeli-mob-demands-all-african-refugees-be-deported-from-the-country-and-anyone-who-disagrees-deserves-to-be-raped.html

    1. Samuel B. 5 Sep 2012, 5:34pm

      Can no one spot the irony implicit in the fact that the Jews were the original asylum seekers of the world?

      The Palestinians were driven off their own land so that Israel could be established as the Jewish state.

      How quickly the downtrodden and oppressed have become the bully and oppressor.

  11. essexgirlbecky 5 Sep 2012, 5:52pm

    Sarah Shulman’s article in November 2011 seemed more balanced; she at least considered ‘Pinkwashing’ in other countries, by referencing EDL appropriation of homophobia as a stick to beat Muslim communities with.

    I would question whether Pinkwashing is a real phenomenon. Who is making the connection between the way Israel treats its LGBT and its Palestinian communities?. Not the Israelis, whose politicians seem unapologetic in their repression of Palestinian citizens.

    And how Pink is Israel? Its LGBT-friendly reputation has suffered following comments made by Knesset members Anastasia Michaeli and Uri Ariel in June, parliamentary rejection of gay (and interfaith) marriage and the growth of the ultra-orthodox Haredi community.

    I suspect most LGBT tourists in Tel Aviv are well aware of Israel’s human rights record towards its Palestinian community but don’t care. If, as it seems, your goal is to undermine Tel Aviv’s tourist economy, focus on Israel’s LGBT credentials instead!

  12. Gonzalo Spain 5 Sep 2012, 6:05pm

    “Community”? I was born gay. I wasn’t born with a “rainbow flag” under my arm, if you know what I mean. For the time being, I’m an individual.

    Are you trying to instrumentalise LGBT people in the West to promote anti-semitic propaganda? I support the Palestinian state according to the 1967 borders, but it’s obvious that Israel has been the target of numerous terrorist attacks over the past decade, month after month. Would any European country stand that? Israel does. We’re talking about a war situation and obviously Human Rights are violated there. But Palestinians aren’t the Teletubbies. Stop infantilising the Palestinians.

    I’m not in favour of demonizing the free, secular and democratic state of Israel. It’s obviously not untouchable, but let’s be careful with using the LGTB community as kamikazes for biased or obscure purposes.

    I recommend all “Muslim” countries to do some “pinkwashing”, like Turkey, for example, or decriminalize homosexuality like the West Bank :)

    1. Noam Michali 5 Sep 2012, 6:36pm

      I’m an Israeli and a Jew, I support any progression of LGBT rights as I do for any and all basic human rights.

      Spedding is accurate in his criticism towards my country.

      It is totally unacceptable for you to accuse anti-Semitism as it completely belittles the claim when examples of real anti-Semitism arise.

      Terrorism isn’t the topic of discussion so your point there is irelevant.

      Israel uses collective punishment and mass human rights abuses as a response to terrorism – this is totally unacceptable and shows that my country isn’t interested in Peace or basic rights & equality.

      Who is my country at war with? it appears you are delluded by right-wing propaganda. Human rights violations should not be casually accepted the fact you accept them is revealing.

      Israel isn’t a secular democracy also please explain how legitimate criticism is “demonizing” Israel.

      Israel uses and abuses the LGBT community that is a fact.

      1. Gonzalo Spain 5 Sep 2012, 7:14pm

        “Terrorism isn’t the topic of discussion so your point there is irelevant.”

        We’re talking about human rights! Terrorism has nothing to do with violating human rights? :)

        “Who is my country at war with?” (If you’re a true Israeli and a Jew)

        LOL From minute zero with everybody else around :) It seems you forget very quickly!

        I can tell you that socialist people in Europe do demonize Israel.

        1. Noam Michali 5 Sep 2012, 8:53pm

          Strang that the word terrorism is not mentioned anywhere except your comments.

          Terrorism is a lengthy topic > I know many victims and families affected by terror. You clearly have no clue about the true reality of both Israelis and Palestinians here.

          Your comment about being a true Israeli and Jew is the most anti-Semitic thing in this thread of comments. Please do tell me what your definition of a true Israeli and Jew is… do I have to pass some kind of test or fit some kind of netanyahu shaped box?

          I don’t forget about the real wars my country has made but to claim that everywhere is a war zone is disingenuous given we aren’t at war with the Palestinians – we occupy and oppress them in a brutal conflict!

          What some idiots on the far left & right do in europe doesn’t mean a thing it doesn’t affect Israel in the slightest and your opinions seem baseless.

          1. Gonzalo Spain 5 Sep 2012, 9:01pm

            I don’t give a shi*t for what’s going on in that region, no matter if you’re a Palestinian troll or an actual Israeli citizen. Solve your own problems yourselves and stop pissing the world with your bigotry.

      2. Samuel B. 5 Sep 2012, 7:27pm

        Great post Noam.

        How can it be antisemetic to speak the truth, particularly when those commenting the loudest against Israel here are Jewish themselves?

        As I said over in another article about Peter Tatchell’s bid to reverse legislation against hate speech which is tying our police up in knots, how have we come to the point where truth itself is demonised?

        It is intolerable and outrageous that Israel is allowed to perpetuate atrocity after atrocity and we have to sit back and accept it because to speak out gets you beaten with a stick labelled “antisemite”, just as anyone is labelled a “homophobe” for speaking blatant truths that some gay men do not want to hear, or racist, etc.

        Somehow, in our PC upside down world, we have succeeded in turning truth inside out and the result is endless deaths, chaos and the breakdown of society.

        There comes a point when we all have to wake up, open our eyes and see what is going on in our names and shout in one voice “Enough!”

        1. Gonzalo Spain 5 Sep 2012, 8:11pm

          Somebody who has said: “Israel is the enemy of the world, no matter how nicely it respects and treats its gay populace.. ” does not sound like an objective and reliable person for me. 7 million people, many victims of terrorism, accused of being “the enemy of the world”. What an evil argument is that!

          1. Samuel B. 7 Sep 2012, 1:40pm

            Yes, 7 million Israelis are complicit in the actions of their government as they voted them there and many know what is going on but prefer to maintain the status quo because of the generally high standard of living they are accustomed to.

            The tide may be turning though as increasing numbers of Israelis are taking to the streets in outrage as their standard of living is now, horror of horrors, under threat!

            How immoral and objectionable when they are quick to fight for their comfort yet look the other way when their government commits yet another heinous act in their name.

            A case of “I’m alright, Jacob”…

    2. Samuel B. 7 Sep 2012, 1:33pm

      Yes, Israel has been the target of numerous terrorist attacks, but how many of them I wonder carried out by black ops within its own Mossad?

      History bears ample testimony to the fact that problems are created by power hungry governments in order to implement solutions that advance their agendas.

  13. Gonzalo Spain 5 Sep 2012, 6:33pm

    Where is my comment? :P I don’t wanna think you’re censoring comments :) It’s actually outrageous to read an article like this at this very moment when the Socialist Republic of Syria is massacring her own population. Does the term “pinkwashing” hide anti-semitic propaganda or not? :P

    1. Noam Michali 5 Sep 2012, 6:41pm

      With that comment its obvious you are a peddler of anti-Palestinian propaganda.

      Where is your real concern for the people of Syria? or do you just use their situation to distract from Israel’s crimes?

      This article isn’t about Syria nor does it mention Syria… Pink News reports on LGBT issues generally not Middle East politics.

      You are shameful in your claims about anti-semitism!

      1. Gonzalo Spain 5 Sep 2012, 7:04pm

        Seriously, you’ve been very aggressive in your response! Chill out! :D The author of the article says that LGTB peeps should care about Human Rights in general and not just focus on LGTB rights. That’s why I mentioned the Socialist (!!!) Republic of Syria and her flagrant violation of Human Rights! I care about Human Rights!

        I’m not right-wing (Hello! I’m gay and from a Catholic country!) but I don’t play with the two-party system. Actually, in my country we’re quite tired of that game. Not being right-wing does not make me a hypocritical socialist, who just knows about selective compassion and suffering.

        I still don’t see the connection between visible LGTB Israeli people and the Palestinian cause. Who is intentionally making this connection and mixing the two things? This Palestinian LGTB group, Al-Qawds? I said Israel isn’t untouchable. We must denounce and criticize what they do wrong, but I’m still against the political instrumentalisation of LGTB people.

        1. Noam Michali 5 Sep 2012, 9:07pm

          No you mentioned Syria in a negative attempt to deflect our topic. How do we know you did this? Well instead of openly accepting the authors point and my own statements you did the usual “but what about this” statement…

          Imagine if someone went to help people in a country like India then someone said to them “but what about Africa” it would immediately show a bias if not politicised agenda…

          Same as how Israel shouts “Look at us we love gays” whilst it pulverises the Palestinian people.

          Your attempt to claim double standard use in others actually reveals double standards within yourself. If you care genuinely about human rights you would be campaigning for Syria instead of misusing their situation to attack those who criticise Israel.

          The connection is quite clear – LGBT struggle is all about rights & equality & liberation & recognition > so is the Palestinian cause. Israel’s Pink washing draws further focus here! Attempts to shift support in Israels favor is wrong!

          1. Gonzalo Spain 5 Sep 2012, 9:19pm

            it’s not the same to go from India to Africa than to go from Israel to Syria, which is around the corner :)

            “Well instead of openly accepting the authors point and my own statements you did the usual “but what about this” statement…”

            Ohoho. You’re not going to brainwash me or pinkwash me :D I normally try to get informed, check several sources of information (reliable, not biased like you) and come to a conclusion before “openly accept the authors point and your own statements” :D little Palestinian activist of Al-Qwads trying to fool everybody here by saying you’re an Israeli national :P You’re not gonna utilise me for any political purpose. So, give up.

            I’m more worried about Muslims in Syria, Chechnya or Burma, or even the population of Iran and Saudi Arabia.

      2. Gonzalo Spain 5 Sep 2012, 7:44pm

        Look. You’re apparently an Israeli citizen (native-English speaker? Wow!). You support human rights, LGTB rights and the Palestinian cause. Isn’t this amazing? You back up with your own comments my position, because you’re a good person. That’s why I still believe in the people of Israel and am against demonizing them. Communist parties here i my country are engaged in a campaign to boycott Israeli products: http://boicotisrael.net/ Do you think this is gonna help? This increases anti-Semitic hate!

        It’s a shame. We’re making ours a very complex conflict that has nothing to do with us and we don’t reach to understand, because the information we get is biased. LGTB people shouldn’t take an “official position” on the Arab-Israeli conflict (?). So, please, tell Al-Qawds to stop mixing the two topics.

        1. Noam Michali 5 Sep 2012, 9:30pm

          האם אתה מעדיף עברית

          Do you prefer I type in hebrew when this is an English website?

          I think the boycott is helpful and no it does not increase anti-Semitism or hate.

          LGBT people should condemn Israel’s human rights abuses and also criticise Israel’s mixing of pinkwashing propaganda in this way. We should take a position – A human rights position!

          Israel mixes the topics!

          1. Gonzalo Spain 5 Sep 2012, 10:12pm

            Everybody knows that many Palestinians speak Hebrew very well! :P You can pretend to be whoever you want.

            I prefer to trust Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch when it comes to denouncing violations of human rights when either Israel or the Palestinian authority are involved, because they criticise BOTH of them!

            It’s Al-Qaws that mixes the topics! But Al-Qaws is not going to utilise me as a gay man for any political cause that has nothing to do with me or my sexuality. I’ve already read their web page and the way they mix the topics (sexuality and “occupation”) is absolutely perverse! Palestine is pinkwashing actually, by using LGTB people to capture supporters in the West.

  14. This article is insane. There’s no connection or evidence that Israel or any country uses gay rights to deflect attention from any other area of government policy.

    This article is clearly anti-Israel bigotry writ large.

    The author offers no evidence or proof that what he claims – that gays are a pawn for the Israeli government – is happening. He’s using gays to further his own erroneous beliefs.

    If anyone’s pinkwashing, it’s Gary Spedding.

      1. Please show any evidence that directly links government tactics to use gay rights to divert attention from other areas of government policy.

        Your “evidence” is nothing but insane ramblings and absurd conjecture.

        Gay people are just a pawn to further your political aims.

        Gay rights are separate from the “Palestinian” issue. You are drawing conclusions and using gay people as a weapon to attack the government of Israel. That’s not fair on gay people.

        There is no link anywhere between gay rights and the Israeli government using gay rights as a means to divert attention away from Palestine. How is that even possible? You really think people will go “look at gay rights in Israel, I’ve completely forgotten about the Gaza Strip now.” ?

        How stupid do you think people are? If it’s not people attacking gays by denying gays rights, it’s people attacking gays for having gay rights.

          1. In your own link about Oren he says:

            “There is a small but voluble group claiming that the freedom and equal rights that Israel grants to the LGBT community is merely an attempt to camouflage our alleged oppression of the Palestinians. But a simple historic fact is that the LGBT rights movement in Israel predated Israel’s capture of the West Bank in 1967.”

            You and Spedding are that small but voluble group.

            You’ve concocted a conspiracy theory where the Israeli public and government have conspired to grant rights to gay people to “cover up” alleged “war crimes”.

            It’s strange how this accusation has never been applied to any other country.

            You’re happy to use gay rights as a stick to beat “Zionism” with, simply because you disagree politically with it. That’s using gays and gay rights and human rights in a perverse reversal of compassion.

            It’s quite sickening.

  15. It saddens me to see so much vitriol directed against Israel – accompanied by a lack of understanding about the conflict and it’s historical context. While I applaud people who care enough to be concerned about the situation of the Palestinians, I am disturbed when it’s expressed in a way that so misrepresents the realities of the situation. The debate is clouded by such venom – it helps nobody. The fact is that neither side has a monopoly on the truth. The solution rests with each recognising the faults of the other, not with them or their advocates seeking to dismiss them as unworthy of regard. As much as I reject the extremist of Lieberman and his ilk, I am also disturbed by the way Israel is demonised and Zionism so maligned. In seeking to negate the jewish people’s nationhood and dismissing it’s achievements (ie LGBT rights) as part of some conspiracy I’m afraid it starts to smack of the sort of prejudice that Israel, oddly enough, was conceived as a refuge from.

    1. For some time now Israel has been conducting a charm offensive (Brand Israel) to promote business/investment opportunities, tourism and so on. I suspect ‘pinkwashing’ is part of that along with pushing the countries liberal/democratic credentials. Not convinced that this is a cynical ploy to cover up the oppressive treatment of Palestinians.

      GS doesn’t mention the fact that there is scope within Israel for opposition to warmongering and aggression (The Peace movement, ex IDF soldiers, liberal/left groups). Their success or failure will depend on what kind of regime is in power. I doubt they will have any success with Netanyahu whose right-wing, rabid, paranoid politics favour confrontation over conciliation.

      Also instead of lambasting the Palestinians and Arab people in the surrounding nations for their reactionary attitudes towards LGBT people maybe those who commented on PinkNews should seek to support an ‘Arab Spring’ with its potential for more progressive regimes and leadership

  16. radical53 6 Sep 2012, 4:13am

    What about Russia, African nations, Asian nations and some European nations.

    These countries have appalling human rights records. We need to fight for a global human rights agenda for everyone, not just us.

  17. Craig Grayson 6 Sep 2012, 5:54am

    I’m not going to go into a debate as to whether the author is anti-Semitic or anti-Zionist. Perhaps he could have provided more examples and references for evidence, the point of this article should not be ignored. Too often GLBQTA peoples and groups focus all their attention on whether a person, group, or country treats the so-called Community, and fails to further take into consideration that our rights are human rights and if it is discovered there has been “pink-washing” it should be taken seriously. However, in conjunction with this, I feel that although there may be “pink” victories that if there are still atrocities against human rights, we as the Community should not ignore those either. If a country, for example, suddenly allows equality in marriage, but continues to allow child slave labor (again, as an example) we should not ignore that but assist in the fight for the rights of those children. Perhaps a better example is that the celebration of equal marriage opportunities

    1. Craig Grayson 6 Sep 2012, 5:55am

      should not be a true celebration until there are laws in the hypothetical country that would bring safety to those abused in  a marriage. If it is a person who suddenly supports GLBQTA rights but in the same breath utters derogatory commentary of, for example, disabled persons of any orientation, The Community should not ignore them for favor toward ourselves. We need to remember that despite celebrating our diversity we want to be treated as equal humans, and if we are equal in humanity as any cisgendered heterosexual person, then we must strive for equality and freedom for ALL, and not let our own concerns blind us to others. 

  18. Just seen a report on the BBC News channel about Vladimir Putin helping to save some Siberian cranes.

    Looks to me like Russia is using cranewashing to hide their atrocious record on LGBT rights

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19499824

  19. Maybe I’m just idealistic but I find it hard to believe that anyone would be fooled by ‘pinkwashing’ whether they’re LGBT or not.

    Seriously, we’re so gullible that we fawn over countries that promote LGBT rights and fail to notice other human rights abuses in those countries?? I think not…

    ALL countries (and companies, and people) present a public image yet most people who have access to other sources of information are well aware that what we’re presented with isn’t necessarily the whole truth.

  20. I’m not addressing this particular piece, but it seems to me that the accusation of ‘pinkwashing’ usually boils down to:

    1. Country A treats LGBT people better than Country B.
    2. We have allied ourselves to Country B
    3. We don’t like to Country A treating LGBT people well because it makes our allies look bad.

    It’s not unlike the argument that goes,

    LGBT people are persecuted in most African, Carribean and Muslim countries, therefore anyone who objects to LGBT people being persecuted must be a racist white supremacist islamophobe.

    This of course ignores the fact that the LGBT people persecuted in those countries are themselves African Carribean and Muslim.

  21. Glen Hague 7 Sep 2012, 10:25am

    Gary is absolutely right. There were gay white LGBT activists in South Africa during the apartheid era who were racists. Sometimes reading comments here by supposedly tolerant people you realise there is as much bigotry in the gay community as everwhere else.

  22. Antisyzygy 7 Sep 2012, 1:49pm

    What a load of tosh.

  23. burningworm 10 Sep 2012, 3:41pm

    The articles broad stroke, gays prefer and partake in gay friendly/exclusive venues and destinations have more to do with coercive patterns than an allied approach to keeping the pink pound within community pockets and lavender loving nations.

    You could have picked any country; you could have picked a state within a country, Texas and the other states which Mexico want back. There are treaties where islands are to be used for peace i.e. non military means including though not exclusively Guantanamo which are in constant breach. Instead you targeted Israel with very little subjectivity. What about the lack of effective unification movements where Palestinians and Israeli have a single pride. It seems to me that you display the same sort of mindset as your friends.

    Could it be that nations run by conservative and centralist governments pay duteous care to the dictum; gain wealth; forget all but self.

  24. For some time now Israel has been conducting a charm offensive (Brand Israel) to promote business/investment opportunities, tourism and so on. I suspect ‘pinkwashing’ is part of that along with pushing the countries liberal/democratic credentials. Not convinced that this is a cynical ploy to cover up the oppressive treatment of Palestinians.

    GS doesn’t mention the fact that there is scope within Israel for opposition to warmongering and aggression (The Peace movement, ex IDF soldiers, liberal/left groups). Their success or failure will depend on what kind of regime is in power. I doubt they will have any success with Netanyahu whose right-wing, rabid, paranoid politics favour confrontation over conciliation.

    Also instead of lambasting the Palestinians and Arab people in the surrounding nations for their reactionary attitudes towards LGBT people maybe those who commented on PinkNews should seek to support an ‘Arab Spring’ with its potential for more progressive regimes and leadership

  25. Irish_Aidan 16 May 2013, 6:45pm

    Interesting debate topic. “Can you separate “human rights” from “gay rights”?

    I would argue yes. One can focus on just “gay issues” and forget everything else.In the context of Islael it is a normative ideal to ask that a nation state which is a “homeland for the Jews” to be secular. It should never be secular. There are 196 nation states on Earth. Each one was founded for different reasons. But Israel is unique, it was founded on the basis that the Jews needed a land so cultivate their own civilisation.

    This idea was supported and is supported by the US, UK, EU, Russia and China (the countries that matter).

    Therefore, if Israel was founded as a “Jewish” state, for all Jews. Then it is only logical that even gay Jews will be welcome here.

    In short yeah I think you can separate the two and I’m glad that Israel promotes gays rights. In fact, Israel is the only country in the MENA to have any gay rights as the rest have laws that allow for the execution of gay people.

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