Why apologise? Gay people are confused!
You bet. The continuing existence of all sorts of irrational bigotry confuses the hell out of me.
I’m really pleased Stevie has cleared this up.
I didn’t wish to mention this before, but I have worked with the guy in the past and he is the sweetest, kindest man one could care to meet, and not one to hold a judgement or opinion on anyone.
This has obviously been a misinterpretation of what was just a simple remark, and I really think people should drop whatever opinions they had on what was said.
Just because you know Stevie Wonder (read that everyone? Spanner1960 PERSONALLY knows STEVIE WONDER!! Wow!!) doesn’t mean he’s incapable of spitting out a bit of unpleasantness. And his apology is hardly one at all. Another of those vague ‘love’ statements we usually get from people who blunder into this area by showing they’re true opinions.
People’s niceness doesn’t always prevent them from having prejudices or from unwittingly coming across as a tad patronising, but at least he’s cleared up the misunderstanding, and I think pretty unequivocally.
Even when he said it, many people were questioning the ambiguity of his statement, and Stevie has addressed that completely.
It’s just fckwits like you who hang on everybody’s word and immediately jump on the defensive squealing like stuck pigs whenever any comment that be possibly construed as critical toward homosexuals comes their way.
You really need to get out more.
Do you have a word for name-dropping people like you who respond with foul language and insults? What would your mate Stevie make of that? And spare the advice. you know nothing about me.
It’s a shame that, since the LGBT community is often truly attacked, some of us have become a bit oversensitive and started to see attacks where there are none. I’d never thought he meant this in an offensive way, but from some of the comments on the previous article, you’d have thought Stevie Wonder was calling for government funded gay extermination squads. But I guess I can understand such oversensitivity when there are so many real bigots attacking us relentlessly for who we are.
He may not be homophobic but his comment certainly was, that’s the point. It doesn’t matter if he meant it in an offensive way. And it’s not oversensitivity to point out the homophobic nature of a comment regardless if it was made by a bigot or an alleged ally like Stevie Wonder.
I do not understand how his comment was homophobic. In what way did it express fear or hatred of homosexuality or of homosexual people? Is this some strange usage of the word ‘homophobic’ that I was previous unaware of?
Stevie Wonder is clearly confused about sexual orientation and identity, it’s funny how people project their own problems onto others. Anyway he seems to have acknowledged that he is confused now and has sort of apologised, I suspect he is still quite confused about sexual orientation and how people come to terms with who they are in an environment that is often hostile to homosexual relationships.
He is not confused, and he didn’t apologise either.
It’s just illiterate prats such as yourself read things that don’t exist into what people say.
Hello Pavlos. Spanner1960 is a bit of a sewermouth, I’m afraid. According to him or her, you’re an illiterate prat and I’m a fckwit (sic). I wonder how else he/she/it fights its battles? PN shouldn’t really encourage this kind of abuse. Let me know if you want to report it.
I think you will find that Spanner is also handy with his fists, boasting on another thread that he is more than happy to “beat the crap out of anyone who calls him a poof”. He has referred to me as a cretin, as has his best mate.
I have asked Scott Roberts the new Editor of PN to review the moderation policy. Watch this space I guess!
And this is a supposedly grown man around 40 years of age behaving like the school sneak and grovelling to the new teacher with selective postings to get the naughty boys into trouble.
Well it hasn’t taken all of 10 minutes to find a dozen of your hate-spewing postings to report to sir with and I am sure he will come to his own conclusions where the agitator lies.
Act your age, W6.
Has life really treated you that badly that you have to invade this site with your pent-up bitterness and internal rage?
This is not the place to air your dirty laundry or to take your unhappiness out on others attempting to debate adult subjects.
I am turning 33 next birthday and could not imagine hitting 40 and airing all my unresolved issues and demons on a public forum like you do.
Reading back over your postings since 2010 is like reading about your life and mental state unravelling in full view on PN, but this is not the place for that.
Try and get some professional help, for heaven’s sake.
You been keeping those PDF files upto date – good for you!
It is time that the likes of you & Spanner are muzzled & learn to take a more moderate tone & respect the views of others, without resprting to the use of the terms “cretin, fckwit”. You are both aggressive agitators – I am not the only contributor who find you both offensive.
I am not ashamed of who I am Samuel, I will be as open as I like about subjects such as HIV & mental health I am authentic in my views, unlike yourself. I celebrate difference, you on the other hand want to stigmatise difference at every opportunity.
You have much to learn about life but for your young yrs you are a very angry & frightened!
W6, you have stated here that you are not in the best mental state, so what are you doing dispensing advice about potentially lethal medications to worried, newly-seroconverted gay men, many of whom will be naive, impressionable youngsters?
You are not licensed as a doctor so what are you playing at?
I would not be so concerned were it not for the fact that the personal persona you portray on here is of someone who is an extremely loose cannon and one prone to resorting to sly tricks and wishing HIV on those who do not share your point of view.
I long for the day this forum is made official as a strong case could be made for filing a complaint against your HIV info dispensing service as you’re clearly not of sound mind .
“so what are you doing dispensing advice about potentially lethal medications to worried, newly-seroconverted gay men, many of whom will be naive, impressionable youngsters?” I have no idea how you are able to make such a statement Samuel. Please provide evidence to to back up this statement. Only once have I made a comment about the side effects associated with a particular drug regimen. Have you never heard of patient empowerment or advocacy? Patient involvement in their care is essential, that is why peer support is so important.
When I last checked it is only Dr’s & Pharmacists who can prescribe drugs in the UK – once again here you are trying to discredit me, one has to wonder what your motivation is?
” wishing HIV on those who do not share your point of view.” – I am particularly interested to know where I have wished HIV on another person – please provide the proof to back up this statement. I will agree that I have often pointed the less obvious risks of acquiring HIV to counter your confidence that you will never get HIV; shock diagnosis happen to the most careful of people – if you have interpreted this in the way you describe, it tells me that you are either uneducated about HIV transmission risks or overly anxious about acquiring HIV (which in itself is not a good position to be in).
Unless you are a psychiatrist how can you comment about my state of mind? You do not know what my diagnosis is. Mental health problems are often complex & cover many conditions, such as OCD, which I suffer with. Does that make me less of an individual, or less able to impart accurate information to others? No is the answer! Try being inclusive for a change (or is that too PC for you)?
You have made inference to the day when I (Samuel B.) catch HIV with some glee, despite my reassuring you I play safe always.
You could barely hide your sneer or relish on the several occasions when you intimated the seeming inevitability of my seroconversion, as if somehow I will deserve it.
I found that grotesquely offensive and so karma comes around to bite you on the bum about your mental state, which you have openly discussed on here.
I honestly don’t wish you ill, but you keep telling us how you are not of sound state of mind which is why I find it so frustrating orating with someone on that level as opposed to someone who isn’tt likely to suddenly fire off at all tangents.
We have had discussions where we have been civil and mutually respected the others’ viewpoint, and on many an occasion I offered an armistice which you point blank rejected each time.
So I can’t win with you so it seems the only thing to do is fight, which I profess I find tedious and quite stressful.
I think your comments echo how I feel about the zeal you have professed how I have contracted HIV, likewise you have inferred many time I deserve to become infected. I am not bothered about the perception you hold about me, but rather those who feel shame & isolation because of their status. I was reading today about a young man who this time last year wanted to take his life, yet now he is on a good treatment regime & he now feels life is worth living. These are the stories perhaps you are not aware of & do not appreciate the impact some of your comments have on people reading you postings.
To my knowledge I do not post inaccurate information, I get that you question HIV treatment but you are not best placed to comment. The recent development of the Quad Pill by Gilliad costing $28,000 is something I am critical of. The drug has no real advantages & contains 2 components that are known to be kidney toxic. I would not want this drug routinely used in the UK – this may surprise you.
i can’t win with you either because you question basic scientific evidence & sound principles that are well established the world over – I do not see the conspiracy that you do. All I know is that treatment & care has transformed the lives of many people, some are here 30 yrs later, some of these wish they weren’t particularly given the crack down on Welfare, which again I find your comments difficult to swallow.
I am a very open person Samuel I am not ashamed of being HIV positive or that I have mental health conditions – perhaps you find this difficult to comprehend, but it is people like me who are trying to break the stigma you wish to perpetuate.
You have been very spiteful to me & Stu, I do not forgive easily, esp. someone who doesn’t even know me. Sadly you set the tone from day one calling THT volunteers “part of the rot” I was flabbergasted by that statement, given that I & others are trying to help others, which you have since ridiculed.
All the time I spend defending myself & HIV charities is time I am not able to spend on real issues, but I am passionate about providing up to date information about HIV as it is today, I am not alone in this, many other poz people use Twitter & Facebook – I have chosen to also post here, which is a huge challenge because all I come across is resistance, the use of offensive abuse & ridicule, is it any wonder I also retaliate?
I have been serious in my postings when I say you could be at risk of contracting HIV because your understanding does seem to be rudimentary & mis informed at times. if you choose to see this as an attack so be it.
I have contact with many many gay men who are overly anxious about HIV & this is how you come across , semi informed but scared to death. Only you can change that.
I have been grossly offended by you many times & now I simply do not trust you to change your attitude towards me, I have seen how you have treated Stu & I find that appalling.
I won’t respond to all of your points because we will be here all day and night going back and forth.
But one thing I have made abundantly clear with regard to HIV meds is that ARE effective at extending lifespan although they complications will arise in some users over time and not enough is known to be able to say whether most users can expect a normal lifespan.
HIV meds are absolutely vital in sustaining the lives of those affected and I have never suggested they should not be used in favour of any other treatments.
My bone in our debates to date is that now HIV meds are being touted as the answer to HIV prevention itself and the call to testing is being used as the be all and end all to prevent HIV’s spread, which in effect turns prevention on its head.
Prevention is NOT about popping synthetic pills which will adversely impact and/or reverse health in certain users.
It is about providing education and awareness programs to those at most risk, and targeting effective…
and impactful campaigns at those most at risk.
More and more doctors with links into big pharma are advocating meds to be be used as prevention, such as statins for all over 50s, etc. etc.
You have to ask what is behind this call for mass medication, and how thoroughly interwoven into our government and connected quangos such as the THT they’ve become?
The other area we will always disagree is the nature of the campaigns that would have most impact in deterring young gay men from engaging in HIV transmitting behaviours, and we have been here so many times.
I maintain this can be done in a way that is blunt but honest and would have the backing of most with HIV who similarly think modern day prevention campaigns are short-sighted and ineffectual.
You harp on about stigma and use that as a stick to brand me as a monster, but sometimes we have to love our brothers enough to want to administer tough love in the hope that they will wake up and take responsibility for their wlel being.
i dont think stevie wonder was homophobic when he said what he said, he was simply being arrogant and patronizing when he made that remark in context of frank ocean’s admission of his love for another man. there was absolutely no need for stevie to make that statement in that situation and the fact that he needed to apologise for it afterwords just proves my point.
I don’t think that Wonder is homophobic either but his statement certainly was.
Though I appreciate his apology, it doesn’t adress the real problem. His words weren’t missunderstood. The underlying homophobia in his comment (people who consider themselves gay are often just confused) was very clear, especially given the context of the question (“Was he surprised that there could, in 2012, be a furore at the revelation that a rapper might be gay?). His response was totally uncalled for.
Frank Ocean is not a rapper, he is a singer-songwriter.
What was homophobic about that?
Some people who consider themselves gay are often just confused.
Some people who consider themselves straight are often just confused.
Life’s like that.
“The Guardian” asked him: “Was he surprised that there could, in 2012, be a furore at the revelation that a rapper might be gay?”
To that he answered “I think honestly, some people who think they’re gay, they’re confused”.
Instead of expressing his support for Frank Ocean (and the LGBT community) he decided to totally derail the question.
I think heterosexual men who have gay crushes (as in wanting to have sex with another man) is almost as rare as leprechauns. If you’re bisexual you might go back and forth, but then you still aren’t confused. You don’t have strong sexual and romantic attractions to someone out of being “confused.” The claim is a religious promotion, in an attempt to minimize gay relationships, make them “not real love” but just confusion, something less.
Stevie Wonder didn’t say gay people are confused. All he said was there were some people who thought they were gay but they were just confused. In my view there isn’t anything wrong with what he said.
He is a lovely person too and even when this story first broke I knew there was something dodgy about it. Lovely person and a lovely singer.
I do honestly believe that there are youngsters out there who aren’t sure about their sexuality – although I’ve since learned that we shouldn’t try to label everyone or categorise them because we humans are complex anyway. Just my view.
He apologised because the PC zealots at GLAD no doubt came down on him like a ton of bricks, just like their UK counterparts on this forum did, resorting to making cruel digs at his blindness because of the PC hypocrites they are.
As I said in the other thread on this topic, the more truth that is shined at militant PC gays in their upside down, back to front, inside out world, the more they scuttle for cover into the shadows.
It is extremist reactionary gays like them, who probably number no more than 5 per cent of all gay people, who make it so much harder for the rest of us every time they raise their interfering heads above the parapet.
They alone have turned the word “gay” into one that our oppressors can, with some justification, use against us.
What a crock of shyte
” PC zealots”
Seriously? That’s your response? Ever think of medication?
And so W6 unleashes his slobbering pit bull alter ego back among the thrall.
I guess we should all be somewhat relieved that he was muzzled and tethered for such a long time.
No doubt your sidekick, the inimitable Rottweiler Rob, will be barking again before too long?
Oh the nostalgia:- it will seem just like old times! :)
Bring it on boys!
Wow. Quite a hissy fit there. Typically “astute and educated” response from you. Not get a chance to scream at traffic lately, no? Bless.
Is that the best you can do, dear, after all this time?
My, you are losing what little touch you once had.
LOL! Lets ignore your obvious mental health issue, shall we?
I so agree.
It’s so tough being so self-loathing, isn’t it Sam?
I loathe these people so much, I rarely get the time to loathe myself.
The point is, why should Wonder have even felt the NEED to apologise except to appease the shrill minority of reactionary gays who perceived, wrongly, that what he said was done to cause offence?
He was expressing his own opinion, and the militant gay thought police came down on him like a ton of bricks just as they are doing over and over again because, somehow, we have all been indoctrinated by the cult of PC into believing nobody has a right to excess any kind of an opinion anymore that may be even mildly interpreted as causing offence, or hurting the sensibilities of weak-willed, downtrodden minorities who forever trumpet the “pity poor me” victim card instead of developing a backbone.
Therein also lies the road to tyranny because when we start to police and criminalise thought itself, a fully-fledge totalitarian police state is never far behind.
And it will be the shrill, militant reactionaries who scream the loudest when they realise what their actions will eventually create.
Yawn – you not anything better to do than keep spouting this total tosh on here? No one is interested in your one man ideology as it is ridiculous as are your extreme views.
The only militant reactionary here is you Samuel spouting utter nonsense time after time – yawn!
What a total deranged pillock you depict yourself to be!
Thank you, W6, for positing a text book example of exactly the type of shrill, reactionary gay zealot I was referring to.
And who said we would never be in symbiosis with one another?
Now, if you could just brush up your oratory skills which still leave a good deal to be desired…
I don’t see many agreeing with you on here Samuel apart from your new best buddy Spanner. But there again we are all wrong & you are both so arrogant to think you are right. Total tosh!
If you care to check the reds & greens you are so fond of Samuel on both the SW stories you will note that both you & Spanner are marked down. There is no support for your ideology here.
Most come here to simply make comments to the story in question, you come here to trumpet conspiracy theory & politicise everything & claim some Devine right to spout utter $hite & shout down those who do not agree with your ridiculous views.
Just pi$$ off fool!
Samuel seems to think we have made our advances just by keeping our heads down in a tasteful manner. Well, nothing gets done like that. I respect your choice to be a good little Gay but don’t be too quick to dis people who stick their necks out and shout. If you were black in the 60s would you be saying “Oh why doesn’t that Malcolm X shut up? He’s embarrassing us!” It takes all kinds.
Of course you don’t, W6, because many of those posting here are of that leftie Socialist bent that wants to criminalise everyone and his dog for breathing.
But by no means all, and I am baffled by your false claim that Spanner and myself have been red arrowed into oblivion.
Far from it, and I’m actually humbled by the likes of those who’ve pointed out, correctly, that Wonder made no offensive comments whatsoever and note THEY have achieved the most green arrows whereas those making vile, disgusting remarks about his disability have been red arrowed in droves, far more than I.
So there’s hope that gay people with the sense to see truth are being heard and will soon outnumber the shrill, loud-mouthed extremist faction who look for homophobia where it doesn’t exist.
I posit that it is THEY who are the true homophobes as they’re clearly in conflict with the world:- an outward projection of their own internal conflict, whereas the rest of us get on with our lives happy and content.
“because many of those posting here are of that leftie Socialist bent that wants to criminalise everyone and his dog for breathing.”
Medication. Its a valid solution for mental health issues of the kind you have. You’re stupidity, however, it wont help.
As if on cue (yawn)…
Will, I keep telling you, I mean W6, the same thing because the medication he is taking is clearly sending him off the rails, but the poor dear just will not listen.
Can you get through to him perchance?
Now people who think you’re a raving lunatic are all the same person, are they?
Do you normally think people who you have never met are collectively out to persecute you?
Might I suggest Clozapine (sold as Zaponex in the UK). Its an excellent medication for the treatment of schizophrenia.
So now this has become the W6/Cal/Will show has it?
And I thought Stu/Elaine/William/etc. was scraping the barrel in their desperation to make a fudged point?
Or are you, in fact, all of you one and the same?
Isn’t it time for W6 to chime in by now, or is he not subtle enough to know that it is blindingly obvious he has sidestepped to allow his alter egos to make equally big fools of themselves?
Keep it coming boy(s), I love a good challenge, though would be far more challenging if you were up to my intellectual level.
I just hope duelling with rabid dogs won’t give me fleas!!!
Samuel, you seem like a very angry person. Why don’t you get a massage. It’s all going to be ok.
Its called Clozapine, Sam.
“total deranged pillock”
Nice to see the personal insults are out straight away – or do you plan to list them all later? Fckwit.
I don’t need to list them – other contributors have. I suggest you moderate your tone on these comments pages or you may find that you will not longer be able to contribute – new broom might take a different approach, particularly if everyone who is offended by you, uses the report button or sends emails drawing attention to the way you conduct yourself!
Is Mr Wonder formally educated? Why is his comment worth printing? Just to show how a religious belief can trap people? We know that already. It’s up to him to rescue himself from limited education, limited vocabulary, and limited understanding of the world.
His comment is worth print because Stevie Wonder is a world-renowned singer-songwriter and pianist like Frank Ocean, and one of Ocean’s inspirations. However, his comment was just in bad taste, but it shows that Wonder is obviously from another generation from a time when sexuality was more taboo.
I’m pretty sure Stevie Wonder is probably not a rampant homophobe. But his response to Frank Ocean’s touching and brave admission was not very affirmative. Instead he chose to say something mildly negative. His apology was just about ok.
How nice to read such a measured and level-headed comment amidst the shameful and frankly hysterical name-calling that’s swamping this discussion.
A bit late in the day to be sabotaging the arrow scoring system W6/Will?
What desperate manoeuvres you will resort to long after this story is off the main page and people are no longer looking.
As I said yesterday, indulging in petty vendettas while scrounging off the welfare state and all decent, hard-working contributors to these boards.
Utterly, utterly shameful, yet totally pathetic and funny at the same time!!! :)
Paranoid much me thinks………………it must be very difficult feeling persecuted all the time & seeing conspiracy where others just see things simply as they are presented. Loosen up a bit Samuel why are you so frightened & up-tight about life?
“Utterly, utterly shameful, yet totally pathetic and funny at the same time!!!”
Read one of your own rambling and utterly insane paranoid scribblings here Sam and you’ll pretty much meet your own definition there.
Now, did you go get the meds like I told you? It’ll make your quality of life somewhat bearable…. for all of us.