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Stevie Wonder thinks that “some gay people are confused” about being gay

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  1. I would not presume to speak out on the subject of blindness, nor assume that I know more about being blind than he does. Why can he not give LGBT the same courtesy?

    Some situations in life are only really understood by those who experience and encounter them first hand. We can explain, we can educate, we can share. But in the end, we know better.

    1. de Villiers 1 Sep 2012, 9:51am

      > I would not presume to speak out on the subject of blindness, nor assume that I know more about being blind than he does. Why can he not give LGBT the same courtesy?

      Is this a signal to the end of your uninformed comments on religion and theology?

      1. It takes no special insight to pick up a bloody book and read the bloody thing. I know you like the idea of having “experts” who will translate away the drivel and conceal the vileness of it – but I can bloody read for myself.

        1. Why do you think it was only available in Latin for centuries.

          Cant have the unwashed non-clergy actually reading the vile tomb.

          They might actually work out that it is a load of nonsense.

        2. de Villiers 1 Sep 2012, 8:32pm

          I doubt you have even done that. Such hypocrisy.

          1. Yes, I have read it. Cover to cover. It’s always wisest to know your bloody enemy. So kindly don’t judge me by your own mendacious standards.

          2. de Villiers 2 Sep 2012, 6:43pm

            I do not believe you.

            And try to stop spitting when you speak.

    2. Spanner1960 1 Sep 2012, 12:23pm

      Are you saying that Stevie Wonder has no concept of sexuality?
      How do you know that?

      I think he has given every courtesy to the man, he was not dismissive, he was not critical and he came across as very understanding.

      Maybe it is you who needs top recognise that not everyone sees their sexuality in the same way as you see yours; and since when were you the expert authority of what is and is not right?

      1. Then let him say so. Let him say that he has questioned his own sexuality in the past. Let him demonstrate that he has the authority and insight that he is trying to assert, without seeming to have any obvious foundation.

        1. Spanner1960 1 Sep 2012, 3:54pm

          He is not claiming to have an insight any more than you are.
          Maybe he reads books too.

  2. I never thought of him as being stupid, well we all know what thought thought don’t we?

  3. I think some blind people are just confused. Maybe he should open his eyes.

  4. Robert in S. Kensington 31 Aug 2012, 10:00pm

    Stevie Wonder really is blind and ignorant too, isn’t he? Shame on him.

  5. Maybe his perspective is down to his lack of visual stimulus – its certainly a factor to take into consideration.

    Valksy’s comment is one of my favourite statements about sexuality, of all time – hits it right on the head.

    1. It’s*

  6. Suddenly Last Bummer 31 Aug 2012, 11:08pm

    Ebony and ivory is ok….but not same sexes living in happy relationships? Gimp.

    1. I didn’t see him saying it was wrong, or that gay people didn’t really exist. He just hypothesised that some (straight) people may mistake closeness for romantic love. It does seem questionable if it’s specifically in relation to Frank Ocean – Stevie Wonder has no right to say whether Ocean’s feelings are genuine – but the sentiment that humans can sometimes see romance where only friendship exists doesn’t seem inherently offensive.

      1. Was it necessary to make such an observation in such a context though? Surely you can see that there’s more than a hint of ‘he might have been mistaken in thinking he’s attracted to men’?

  7. BruceWillisFan 31 Aug 2012, 11:32pm

    so Stevie Wonder isnt just blind, he also a homophobic twat as well. I am glad he is blind forever. he truly deserves it. :)

    1. GingerlyColors 1 Sep 2012, 1:23am

      At least he doesn’t have to see two men kissing in the same way that we have to watch men and women kissing each other all the time!

    2. Vindictive malice is not pretty. Seek to rid yourself of it.

    3. That is a crappy thing to say. I know I would never want to be blind and would not wish it on my worst enemies (and yes, I do have some contenders for that position). I was raised that wishing evil on others is wrong.

      I don’t agree with his statement, but he has a right to make it and it isn’t as if he ha made a career out of trashing GLBT people so far as I know.

  8. Actually, this made sense, and I’ll explain why.

    I didn’t read this as Stevie Wonder attacking us. He said that there are gay people, and they’re well and truly gay, yes? He also said there are men who desire emotional closeness with men without any sexual attraction. And what I gleaned from it was, men should not fear emotional intimacy in either situation. Which means, whether you are gay or straight, whether or not you feel a physical attraction, you can love your male friends, and you shouldn’t have to be ridiculed for your love by insecure macho people.

    We as gay people should should recognize that just as there are truly gay people like us, there are also truly straight people. And in a post-homophobic world, we can all be good friends.

    1. Bromances haha

    2. Mark Young 1 Sep 2012, 9:02am

      Ah, what a lovely way of describing his homophobia. But you do realise he said that “some people who think they’re gay, they’re confused”. I ‘glean’ from that, that stevie wonder is homophobic.

      1. Spanner1960 1 Sep 2012, 12:26pm

        You glean totally wrongly.
        Some people think they are straight, but are confused.

        Sometimes it can take years to figure out one’s sexuality, so who the fck are you to judge what they are or are not?

        1. Mark Young 1 Sep 2012, 4:00pm

          Yeah some gay men are confused. Some straight men are confused. Did he say some straight men are confused? Did he say some blind people are confused? No. He singled out gay men and said some are confused about their sexuality. Why single us out? because he’s being homophobic.

          1. Spanner1960 2 Sep 2012, 2:37am

            He didn’t “single out” anybody.
            He was asked, you pulchritudinous cretin.

          2. Did you actually mean to call Mark Young is beautiful and stupid?

            Or are you just so thick yourself that you don’t know the definition of the word pulchritudinous?

    3. I agree that his words make sense in a general sense, but he should be keeping his comments away from the specific context of Frank Ocean because of the less-than-subtle suggestion he is making, whether deliberately or not, that Frank Ocean himself is “confused”.

      1. Spanner1960 1 Sep 2012, 12:28pm

        I don’t think he made it as some kind of press statement, it just happened to come up in conversation during an interview because he knows Frank ocean and was asked his opinion.

    4. Mark Young 1 Sep 2012, 6:51pm

      Why are you trying to justify what he said. Even Stevie Wonder has apologised.

      http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/news/a403210/stevie-wonder-apologises-for-gay-people-are-confused-comments.html

      1. He said “I’m sorry that my words about anyone feeling confused about their love were MISUNDERSTOOD”.

        He doesn’t sound like he is apologising for what he said.

        1. Spanner1960 2 Sep 2012, 2:34am

          Why should he apologise if you are too fcking stupid to understand his honourable intentions because you are too wrapped up in your own “Help me, help me, I’m a persecuted poof!” world.

          Get over yourself dammit.

          1. A) I’m not a poof

            B) I’m not saying he should apologise, I’m saying he didn’t apologise for whatever Mark Young thinks he has done wrong. Read my comments below you’ll see I don’t think he said anything homophobic.

            C) Calling people fcking stupid for no actual reason makes you seem like a bit of a tit.

  9. Some blind people are apparently confused about what they perceive.

  10. GingerlyColors 1 Sep 2012, 1:21am

    Sorry Stevie but you have gone down in my estimations. But then what do you expect from a man who sings ‘Peace has come to Zimbabwe’? (A line from Masterblaster (Jammin’), released in 1980 as a tribute to Bob Marley (sick bags at the ready!) who was invited by Robert Mugabe to perform at that country’s independence celebration that year).

  11. It’s not necessarily about stupidity. It’s about the conflict that takes place between cultural and ethnic identity which is formed first, and the sexual identity which is formed second.

    The logic is that, “There is no questioning my ethnicity and my culture, but sexuality can be called into question.”

    I highly recommend this article I read recently,

    Operario, D., Han, C. & Choi, K. (2008). Dual identity among gay Asian Pacific Islander men. Culture, Health & Sexuality: An international journal for research, intervention and care. 10 (5), 447-461.

  12. His comments are short-sighted. People who are Gay know they are Gay. People who are confused about their sexuality know they are confused. There may be a tiny crossover but what has this to do with Frank Ocean’s announcement?

    1. “Short-sighted”?

    2. Spanner1960 1 Sep 2012, 12:30pm

      “People who are Gay know they are Gay.”
      Really?

      I’m glad you have put the world to rights with that nugget of complete and utter dogsh|te armchair psychology.

      Many people spend years before discovering their true sexuality.

      1. “Many people spend years before discovering their true sexuality”

        is that your “nugget of complete and utter dogsh|te armchair psychology”

        What cal actually said was “People who are Gay know they are Gay. People who are confused about their sexuality know they are confused” which would seem to indicate a reflection that some people may spend some time (even years) before they define themselves as gay, straight or whatever,

        I don’t suppose that the fact that Cal’s nugget and your rant where saying much the same thing will really get through to you though.

        1. Spanner1960 1 Sep 2012, 3:58pm

          Another lump of urban psychobabble.
          If you are talking conjecture, please shut the hell up.
          If you are talking from personal experience, just bear in mind that not everyone ticks the same way as you.

          1. Christopher 1 Sep 2012, 11:30pm

            Spanner – not everyone here shares your high opinion of yourself. You have issues, and not just with your past.

        2. Spanner1960 2 Sep 2012, 2:36am

          @Christopher: I’m sorry, but you have obviously mistaken me for somebody that give a flying fck what you think.

  13. In the same way that some straight people are confused about being straight?

    Silly comment.

    1. Good point – after all, so many people may well mistake intellectual or emotional bonding for physical attraction to the opposite sex!

    2. Quite, sounds a whole lot like the “it’s just a phase” canard we keep being fed.
      My mum tried that one on me when I first came out.
      Two things… first off 15 years in the closet (as it was at the time) is a hell of a long “phase” to spend eyeing up the models in the Calvins posters, secondly, it’s strange how hetero kids are assumed to always know precicely what they want by default from day one. No-one ever says to their hetro kid “oh it’s just a phase son, soon you’ll fancy other guys, you’ll see”.
      This is why I resent this patronising guff.

      1. Spanner1960 1 Sep 2012, 12:19pm

        Except sometimes it is just a phase.

        1. A phase that, curiously, last a lifetime in many cases. :-)

      2. I find that interesting, too: that straight kids are not confised and know what they want but we are confused and aren’t sure. I knew when about 5 that I was “different” (this was the 50s and my mum truly didn’t get it–she said that she wished things were more talked about then and she could have dealt with me being gay from a more enlightened place), and by puberty, I definitely knew what I wanted. So the whole “confusion” thing is just so much tosh.

        I think though that Stevie wasn’t trying to be a jerk even if he came off as one to some. He has never to my knowledge been nasty and homohating like soe of the rap stars out there. Maybe this is his understanding of the subject and while I don’t agree with it, I think being mean-spirited about it certainly won’t change his mind. Believe me if I thought he was being a homohating jerk, I would be the FIRST to be ticked off and say something about it.

    3. Spanner1960 1 Sep 2012, 12:19pm

      I was a gay person who thought he was straight, if that’s what you mean.

    4. Lots of people are confused about being straight though, for some people it takes years to figure out their sexuality.

      Stevie Wonder acknowledged quite clearly that some people “have a desire to be with the same sex.” He didn’t say gay people do not exist

      This is why so many of these reactionary comments are unhelpful.

  14. Spanner1960 1 Sep 2012, 12:18pm

    What a bunch of retaliatory knee-jerk dicks there are on here.

    All Stevie was saying is that some people experiment, or misread signs about their sexuality. It happens to many people. I lived with a girl for 5 years before I figured out I was gay. That doesn’t make me bisexual, it doesn’t make me confused, it simply means I was unaware of my own sexuality at that particular point in my life.

    You people really need to get off your judgemental high horses just because you haven’t experienced something doesn’t mean anybody else can’t.

    1. I don’t intend this as some sort of challenge, but would you seriously say that you were ‘unaware’ or that you were conditioned not to develop or even acknowledge anything other than a heterosexual possibility? It might be that I am just too unimaginative, but I find it hard to believe that anyone can suddenly start fancying men more than women in adulthood.

      I think what a lot of people here find objectionable is SW’s suggestion – very possibly unintended – that sexuality can be mistaken, the hint of “it’s just a phase he’s going through” that all too many of us have had to deal with in our day.

      1. Spanner1960 1 Sep 2012, 4:02pm

        “conditioning”, “social expectation”, “peer pressure”, “paternal drive” – call it what you will – the point is that I put it to the back of my mind and it was only years later I faced up to the fact.

        You also have to remember that when I was growing up, homosexuals were about as socially welcome as paedophiles, so it wasn’t something you went around talking about.

        1. OK, so can you see that what people might object to is the impression that SW retains precisely the state of mind that sees homosexuality as considerably less than desirable?

          1. Spanner1960 2 Sep 2012, 2:46am

            What utter crap.
            I see people objecting because they have it in their own tiny little minds that any vaguely critical, or even one ever so slightly differential from the norm regarding sexuality, is immediately viewed as some personal affront or attack on everybody that isn’t 100% straight and has a broomstick up their arse?

            Get a fcking grip man; Stevie was being totally honest, decent and sensitive in what he said. Maybe the people on here need to re-evaluate their feelings and stop attacking everyone that questions the status quo – Have you ever considered, God forbid, that it might be YOU who is at fault?

          2. Since you appear to know Stevie Wonder so very well, I needn’t bother any further. It seems you even strive to match his disability.

  15. “I didn’t read this as Stevie Wonder attacking us. He said that there are gay people, and they’re well and truly gay, yes? He also said there are men who desire emotional closeness with men without any sexual attraction. And what I gleaned from it was, men should not fear emotional intimacy in either situation…”

    Spot on Dermot, but of course the downtrodden, persecuted minority of militant gays who insist in playing the victim card and in perceiving hate where it doesn’t exist in order to advance gay rights to the point where we have more rights than anyone else, period, will persist in their rose-tinted delusions and beating of the drums of wilfully targeted oppression against us.

    Well they don’t speak for me nor the majority of gay people who don’t buy into this “they hate us, pity poor me” clap trap and so live open, happy, contented, fulfilled lives alongside everyone else.

    You choose your reality and some just choose to boringly play the eternal victim, more fool them.

    1. Talking of beating a drum…

    2. Spanner1960 1 Sep 2012, 1:04pm

      Totally spot-on there Samuel.
      I’m sure there are many people on here who consider themselves fully paid up members of the LGBT society that have at one time or another had a bit of hows-your-father with the opposite sex, but God forbid they should mention that for fear of letting the side down and showing discord in the ranks.

      Many people (both gay, straight and all shades in between) have experimented, many have ‘gone through a phase’, and I’m sure many have confused bonding and platonic friendship for something else.
      I really admire Frank Ocean’s bottle to stand up and admit his past – (note: I didn’t say ‘mistake’) – and I think Stevie Wonder merely reinforced that by saying that people’s sexuality at a young age can be malleable and it can take time for people to recognise ones true sexual identity.

      Those out there that criticise Wonder simply show how blinkered and rigid they are, and that they expect everyone to understand how they feel, but are unwilling to ever reciprocate.

    3. “but of course the downtrodden, persecuted minority of militant gays”

      Seems you have described yourself perfectly Samuel. You are the only “millitant gay (homosexual probably describes you better)” who seeks to be the attention seeking aggressive agitator here on PN. You regularly trot out the same tired old phrases, making wild assumptions about gay men who do not fit into your very narrow Weltanschauung (look it up Samuel).

      Now you have been given new confidence by your association with the ever so masculine Spanner, who openly admits he would kick the crap out of anyone who refered to him as a poof, I guess we can look forward to more ridiculous sermons (yawn) on your obvious dislike for men who identify as being gay. I have to admit to being wrong when I have referred to you as homophobic, you are gayphobic (which translates into bigot in my Weltanschauung).

      1. Spanner1960 2 Sep 2012, 3:05am

        You really do talk some serious sparrow droppings.
        Neither myself or Samuel are “militant”, but merely oppositional to the likes of socialist hypocrites and nest featherers such as yourself, who publicly display their obvious love for their fellow man, but surreptitiously steal, bully, sequest and profiteer from any relationship, professional or personal.

        I rightfully admit to being a capitalist, company director and self-made man who has not earned a bean from the taxpayer, but still contributes to his country’s wealth. I wonder if you can say the same?

        I do not dislike men who identify a being gay: I merely loathe the likes of people like you who purport to support the cause whilst simultaneously creaming off whatever wealth people have, stabbing them in the back and yet continue to be ‘part of the community’.

        I admit I might not be everyone’s pal, but at least I say it to your face, rather than pretend to be somebodies friend whilst fcking them rotten and stealing their wallets.

        1. What a complete & utter load of bull$hit…………why is it that both you and the “villiage idiot” make very personal statements about individuals you do not know? You are such an arrogant to$$er who knows nothing about my political leanings, my relationships or my financial circumstances, yet you come on here & spout this vitriol. You have some serious issues sunshine!

          Guess what, I can also make wild assumptions about people. Seems you are billy no mates furiously commenting on these pages at 2:30 or 3am in the morning. Did you finish the last bottle of champagne on your own & then become all maudling & decide to have a virtual hissey fit with those who do not subscribe to your very narrow ever so Right Wing Tory views? You are the one who needs to get a grip -a grip on reality!

          What a complete and utter fool you portray yourself to be, no fool like an old fool eh?

          1. Samuel B. 2 Sep 2012, 6:18pm

            W6, you have openly declared on here that you are HIV and living on benefits.

            Nothing wrong with what you are doing, of course, because that is a trap that many HIV men fell into and now find it impossible, or at worse a convenient excuse, not to get back into the workplace.

            I don’t know you at all but you seem to spend most of your free time dispensing advice about toxic HIV meds to gay men on another thread, some of whom no doubt are gullible and naive and so that is an enormous responsibility in itself.

            The rest of your time you seem to spend spouting your Dalek-like drivel and gibberish here on PN.

            May I proffer, therefore, that someone with your energy and determination might be better utilised in the workplace as an administrator, and that in drawing welfare you are indeed one of the socialist moneygrubbers come parasites feedIng off this country’s wealth created by the likes of Spanner1960 and myself?

            It appears your self-loathing’s manifest in every word you posit on here.

          2. I wondered how long it would take you to bring HIV into the comments thread. You seen to think it is acceptable to attack me for being disabled – as you say you know nothing about me or my disabilities so back off tw@t, you are doing yourself no favours.

            You assume I am unable to work because of HIV you are totally wrong in that conjecture. You constantly make these wild assumptions because you can’t see past your prejudices & stereotype narrow mind set.

            You have made deeply personal comments before with another contributor, who quite rightly branded you a bully, here you are again trying to intimidate & bully me.

            The comments you have made about me & other individuals in receipt of benefits are disgusting, seems you are seeking to vilify disabled people. You really have no shame you vile excuse of human being!

            You have gone too far in your remarks I suggest you think carefully before making any further comments on this thread.

          3. Samuel B. 2 Sep 2012, 7:25pm

            So one minute you are claiming – wrongly – that the meds mean that HIV is no longer a disease that will curtail your lifespan, and on the other you are stating that HIV is a disability?

            You can’t have it both ways, cretin, or is that your spiel to continue drawing welfare when you could be gainfully employed as an administrator or pharma salesman?

            I have every sympathy for HiV men caught in the welfare trap, but not for those who exploit it when they clearly have the abilities to be earning an honest living.

            And whatever happened to that moratorium I agreed to on your request whereby we would not respond to each others’ posts?

            Seems that only applies when it suits you..

          4. I suggest you back off on this unjustified personal onslaught Samuel because you are making assumptions about me that are very wrong.

            I repeat YOU have made the assumption that I am unable to work because of my HIV status, this is not the case. HIV is covered by the Equalities Act 2010 as a disabling condition. Whilst this is the case I have other more serious disabilities that currently prevent me from working.

            You are making veiled threats here Samuel about my entitlement to Welfare Benefits – I suggest you think before you make any further personal comments here.

          5. And I suggest you do likewise before posting any further personal comments about myself, because you have also been wrong on every count, particularly the nature of my gainful employment.

            I would also suggest you grow up and stop hanging onto the tag “village idiot”, which your pit bull stooge – the thankfully long departed Will – used on JUST ONE OCCASION but which you resort to dubbing me at every given opportunity when it is quite clear who is the realm village idiot of the PN boards.

            And despite my never having had the pleasure of Spanner1960′s acquaintance, you childish persist in calling us chums, best friends or whatever.

            Why is that?

            Are you just jealous that you have no friends or allies to speak off on these boards and no doubt the other forums you infest with your incoherent rants, alienating just about everyone due to the uncouth, belligerent moron you come across as with your incessant snipings?

            Nuff said.

          6. As we are having an honesty session Samuel can you explain why on my very first posting here you referred to THT volunteers as “part of the rot” – the very first comment I came across, which has set the tone ever since & has become extremely personal as time has gone on.

            In my view your opinions do not reflect the majority of PN commentators & your constant attempts to discredit me have overshadowed many important debates particularly in relation to HIV. I hold qualifications in HIV / AIDS Understanding & Awareness, Social / Legal aspects, & I am a treatment advocate – I know my subject area as other regular commentators have confirmed. As a qualified peer educator I believe it is right for me to correct poor information & views that perpetuate HIV stigma, fear,discrimination & the discrediting of HIV treatment & care. You will not intimidate me & prevent me questioning your out dated HIV information, which seems to be your goal!

          7. Harlequin 4 Sep 2012, 2:29am

            “In my view your opinions do not reflect the majority of PN commentators…”

            Why should that make anyone’s opinions invalid? Should people only ever follow the herd? Does being part of a majority automatically make one’s views right and good? Without strongly expressed dissent from consensus standpoints I suspect that homosexuality would still be illegal in this country.

    4. I figure that we have enough REAL enemies out there (I am looking at this from as US perspective as that is where I live, so things may be different int the UK. I mean over here we have preachers calling for us to be imprisoned in electrified pens, others saying we should be executed by the state, and there is even one jerk claiming that kids in same-sex pareneted homes should be kidnappend in order to “save” them. We have an idiot runiing for Preident who has pledged o work for a Constituional amendment banning marriage equality in he US. I see and hear some really major hatred against GLBT 7 days a week, so I am not all that ticked at Stevie Wonder’s comment.

      I have never been confused about what I want nor has any other GLBT person I have known. I think that if there was “confusion” about something like this it would be someone who is gay or bisexual but just can’t face i or just doesn’t want to deal with it.

  16. Given this overwhelming expectations of heterosexuality, it is much more likely that sexless friendship between men and women gets mistaken for romantic and sexual attraction. It has certainly happened in my own experience (I have been assumed to be ‘involved’ with women by people I have clearly told I am gay). Stevie is probably not badly intentioned, but he is indulging in heterosexist mind-reading.

  17. Samuel B. 1 Sep 2012, 1:07pm

    The torrent of hate-filled bile and venom spewed towards Stevie Wonder on this forum in response to him making a valid point that the gay militia just don’t want to – or simply can’t – hear is typical of those who instantly seek to smear and ridicule those who speak the simple truth.

    Why are some gay men so terrified of hearing the truth, even from a blind musician who has more talent in his little finger than they will ever realise in their spite-filled selves?

    Those who resorted to mentioning Wonder’s handicap, at a time when the greatest Paralymic Games ever is taking place but in their concerted effort to nail this incredible man to the cross, should all be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.

    And these are the same people who would normally shout anyone down for daring to be so un-PC as to mock a blind man, yet prove themselves to be equally un-PC when it suits them of course.

    Total and utter hypocrites.

    1. Mark Young 1 Sep 2012, 3:57pm

      Gay militia? Where is this army? You do talk some absolute shlte.

      1. Spanner1960 1 Sep 2012, 4:06pm

        Have you not noticed them on here?
        Anybody that doesn’t conform to the socialist, dungaree-wearing, shaven-headed, yoghurt-growing, anti-Tory lefty clique is automatically branded a ‘self-loathing homophobe’

        Or hadn’t you noticed?

        1. Oh come on now, resorting to cheap stereotyping hardly improves your credibility.

          1. Personally I’m neither gay nor straight.

            I am simply a human male who finds men sexually attractive and dislikes female icky bits.

          2. “Female icky bits”? Really?

          3. Spanner1960 2 Sep 2012, 3:06am

            Are you telling me there is no credible basis in many stereotypes?

            ‘Smoke’?, ‘Fire’? Anybody?

          4. I said ‘cheap stereotypes’.

            Book? Cover? Judge?

            The superb irony, of course, is that too often you come across as the most blinkered commentator here, with your stale and predictable Daily Express-reader prejudices.

          5. Samuel B. 2 Sep 2012, 6:22pm

            Lol, guess I should just be relieved that arch-PC Socialist Stu/Diane/William/whatever he’s calling himself this week is still on his hols!

        2. Mark Young 1 Sep 2012, 6:09pm

          What has left wing politics got to do with militia? And dungarees. You’re another one who talks a load of shlte.

        3. I don’t grow yoghurt, in any case the yoghurt growing season is early spring ;)

          1. Spanner1960 2 Sep 2012, 3:08am

            Touché.
            Go get the Alfalfa in then.

        4. ‘self-loathing homophobe’ – If the cap fits wear it sunshine, you & the militant homosexual Samuel have made it your duty to portray yourselves as homophobic on PN. You make your bed…………..etc!

          1. Spanner1960 2 Sep 2012, 3:13am

            I’m not homophobic, I just can’t abide opinionated lefty twats such as yourself that somehow assume that they speak for everybody.

            LGBT people are as diverse as any other group, and I for one refuse to kowtow to your neo-Marxist claptrap drivel.

            The only thing we have in common is who we happen to sleep with. NOTHING MORE.

          2. And I’m not homophobic, I just can’t abide opinionated right wing fascist racist twats such as yourself that somehow assume that they speak from a place of intellect.

  18. steve wonder thinks that frank ocean was confused about his love for another man, how bloody patronising

    1. Samuel B. 2 Sep 2012, 6:25pm

      So frighing what even if he did?

      It’s his dame opinion for Gawd’s sake.

      Why must we all be policed into thinking the same?

      That stymies and cuts off debate and changes us from individuals into conformIng “groupthink” clones – exactly what PC set out to do in the first place.

      Read 1984 to discover the logical end game of this perniciously evil Marxist doctrine…

  19. I agree with what SW is saying in the main, perhaps the use of “confused” was not the best word to use to describe individuals who do not have a strong understanding about their sexuality.

    Rather like the Alpha male that is Spanner (pains me to say it), I eventually “settled” on identifying as a gay man when I was 32. I had experimented in my teens with same sex encounters, then dated a female for 3 yrs. & was married to her for a further 3 years.

    I used to think I was “confused” about my sexuality, but looking back I would describe it as an evolution – I have had periods of being asexual, as well as being attracted to both sexes.

    Perhaps SW was clumsy in suggesting some gay men are confused – but he has a valid point to make.

    More and more I see guys identifying as being bi-sexual, I guess as homosexuality has become more acceptable there is a blurring of the distinct gay, straight labels that have been used to define sexuality.

    1. Spanner1960 2 Sep 2012, 3:16am

      Stone the crows.
      The man speaks some sense at last.
      For once I am in agreement with you (but I’m no Alpha male, I can assure you)

      1. Proof if ever there was any that you make assumptions about people on here that are totally incorrect. It seems because I happen to have had a similar experience to you, this suddenly makes my argument valid – what a suprise! More often than not because you perceive others not to hold the same views as you or life experience you become extremely judgemental, narrow minded, insensitive which is totally unjustified.

        This seems to be the way of the likes of you & the “villiage idiot” – spout whatever you like under the guise of free thinking & freedom of expression whilst not giving a to$$ about anyone else. True Right Wing ideology at play, try being a little more moderate in your thinking; shut your mouth & give your ar$e a chance it will make more sense than the rubbish you have spouted here at 3am on a Sunday morning!

        1. Harlequin 4 Sep 2012, 2:41am

          What an odd response. Spanner1960 agrees with a single one of your comments and you take that as meaning he assents to your arguments elsewhere? If you had omitted the second and third paragraphs of that post I doubt that the responses of him and Samuel B. would have been markedly different.

    2. Samuel B. 2 Sep 2012, 6:28pm

      W6 makes a lucid, honest, articulate, insightful posting – punches air in amazement!

  20. Paddyswurds 1 Sep 2012, 8:55pm

    The words of an in denial self hating homo, if ever i heard them….

  21. Steve Keeble 1 Sep 2012, 10:18pm

    Well the idiot has never ever seen any of them has he?

  22. GingerlyColors 2 Sep 2012, 4:49am

    I think that most of us have been a bit politically incorrect regarding Stevie Wonder here. The guy has overcome adversity and prejudice to become a success. To be black at a time when blacks were getting an even rawer deal in the USA than gays are today and to be blind on top of it did not prevent Stevie Wonder from becoming one of the top recording artists of the world. At the same time he spoke out for black rights and was a campaigner for an annual holiday to recognise Martin Luther King which now takes place on the third Monday of every January. What many of us wanted here was for Mr. Wonder to show the same courtesy towards LGBT people.

    1. Thank you! Well-said. You are right about all the things you’ve mentioned. Back when Stevie Wonder was first recording, it was a different world than now. Black artists were starting to break through and become “crossover” singers. Before that it was pretty much “black music” or “white music” and in many instances the twain didn’t meet. I remember that era well and there was a lot of prejudice against black people and handicapped people as well–and Stevie Wonder is both. I honestly don’t think he was trying to “diss” GLBT people. He doesn’t have a history of speaking ill of GLBT people like a number of rappers have done, so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    2. Thank you! You are right to say that Stevie WOnder has overcome a lot. When he was first recording, the world was a much differnt place. Black singers were just starting to break through as “crossover singers. Back then, there was “black music” and there was “white music” and much of the time, the twain didn’t meet. I remember that era well and there was a lot of prejudice against black people and the disabled–and Stevie WOnder is both.

      I don’t believe that he intended to “diss” GLBT people. So far as I know, he has no history of speaking ill of GLBT people as a number of rappers have done so I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

  23. Some people get offended to easy.

    These comments about his sight make me sick. I think he is an idol for blind people, and many others. He has apologized for the comment and is clearly not homophobic.

  24. I kind of get this as I have been in this situation before. It took me a long while to get round the ‘why me’ and not really knowing who I was. Hopefully I am not the only one who was in this situation. Personally I think being brought up in religion done most of the damage. I finally got the choice not to attend church when I was a teenager but the damage was done. So anyway I can see where Stevie is coming from. Maybe people should look back on their experiences or those of people they know and they will maybe see that not all of us had such a happy time with the whole realisation we were gay. Also Steveie says he thinks some gay people (not all) are confused. So lets not all go off at the deep end when someone makes these types of comments becuase I am sure a lot of us can see where he is coming from.

  25. burningworm 4 Sep 2012, 9:14pm

    We shouldn’t aim at convincing the world that we are right. We should only seek their support. Gay straight alliances at school are the way forward.

    Stevie wonder spoke from his perspective. People are always going to say contrary things, its okay. WE should be confortable enough to hear it. If it is for us to take it in, if it isn’t to let it go. Let us not try and dictate the actions of a persons mouth.

    To quote Stevie

    All is fair in love;
    love’s a crazy game;
    Two people vow to stay
    in love as one
    they say

    But all is changed with time

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