I hope the rest of the congregation follow them out of that church over their stance. Will the last one out please switch off the light.
Lets hope they all stayed and made commnents as the parents left the church. You can change from being homosexual
The entire LGBT community disagrees. Who do you think knows best?
Mick, your comment is extremely stupid.
You can’t change your sexuality.
But you can leave your religion, and it’s a very good idea to do so when it is turning you into an ignoramus.
There is no evidence to support your assertion or reason for anyone to change in any case. There is abundant evidence, however, for people’s ability to stop believing in supernatural tosh, and excellent reasons to stop believing in it – it better equips you to deal with the complexities of life and reality.
Those who believe that sexuality is a choice tend to think that because – for them – it is.
Don’t blame you in the slightest. Look for a gay friendly church and you will see a whole new Light come into your life. Well done too on your second son for coming out. You are good parents. You certainly have our support.
I agree with the mother who said that Jesus is more about reconciliation and love. It is the principle behind the parable of the Lost Sons – particularly in relation to the older brother, a metaphor for a Pharisee, whom sadly many religious ministers resemble.
It is also dispiriting that Tyler had thought that it was not possible to be Christian and gay. That is a real tragedy and a terrible failure of religious ministers. To choose between identities is wrenching and should be unnecessary.
You are educated I presume?
If so then your belief in Jesus is wilful stupidity on your part.
‘Jesus’ and ‘god’ are fictional characters who were invented to give meaning to the lives of desert dwelling, illiterate peasants, thousands of years ago.
The bible/buybull was edited into its current form about 1000 years ago.
Jesus has no more validity than the tooth fairy.
What?! No Tooth Fairy?? That bitch owes me money!!
My dear David, I am educated – as you know. As in this way are the Professors of Divinity at the Sorbonne, Oxford and Cambridge. I fear, however, that you have little theological learning – or you would not make such comments.
As with people who criticise homosexuality whilst failing to understand or appreciate it, people with no real understanding or studying of religion make similar criticisms.
I hope that it was not voices similar to yours which led Tyler to consider he could not be Christian and gay.
….you really do take the biscuit with some of the rubbish you post on these threads especially in regard to religion. You wrote” you have little theological learning” Who, apart from the deluded would want to “learn” about theology. it is entirely based on a myth and a dangerous myth at that. Theologians are nothing more than sooth sayers under another name and to come on here and spout the sortt of rubbish you do is all the proof anyone neds as to the veracity of “theology. You are deluded and need to have a serious talk with yourself.
Please excuse the typos, peeps. I can’t be bothered fixing them as they are obvious….**
Theology is very interesting to some people, (myself included). We may have drawn the short straw in having a Christian culture, given the damage Christianity has done to all of us. But it can be interesting to learn more about that culture, and the theology underpinning it.
In order to reject a religious system from an informed perspective, people need to have some understanding of theology and religious philosophy. And it is useful to have some knowledge about these when arguing with anti-gay religious bigots. Some people get caught up in fundamentalist religion, and it is important to be able to show them the flaws from an informed position.
There are Christians (I am not a Christian, though) who have a much more sophisticated understanding of spirituality than the fundamentalist bigots. Let’s maybe not tar everyone with the same brush.
Isn’t theology the study of religion? Many people who study theology do not believe in God. Many theologians have opposing views about what God is. Faith, not theology, is responsible for belief in the mythical Jesus.
Jesus is an historical figure, and there is ample evidence (beside the Bible) that he lived and was crucified. Whether or not he was the Son of God is, of course, another matter entirely, but the people saying he didn’t even exist are the ones being “willfully stupid”. Saying Jesus is mythical is like saying Julius Caesar is mythical.
Paddy, you proclaim your ignorance and then from that position declare that your ignorance tells you there is nothing to learn. Your comments show that you know very little about the subject upon which you offer criticisms and pontifications.
In relation to cal, theology as word is derived from the French ‘théologia’, itself from the Latin ‘theologia’ which has its roots in the Greek ‘theos’ meaning ‘god’. It is the study of religion in addition to the nature of divinity (Latin ‘divinius’ – ‘of deity’) itself. It is as rewarding as studying any branch of literature or philosophy and it combines both.
Jesus the carpenter may have existed.
But he was NOT the son of ‘god’.
There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of ‘god’ – that is a fictional manmade construct.
And deVilliers chooses to be wilfully ignorant by believing in this ‘god’ thing.
Theology may be the study of religion.
But the fact remains that there is zero evidence for the existence of ‘god’ therefore any educated person who believes in it, is being wilfully stupid.
Opposition to homosexuality may be one of the central reasons why Christianity was invented. Oppression of women may be another.
dAVID, no one has claimed Jesus was the son of God. Not in the context of this discussion, anyway. I was merely pointing out that, contrary to your previous statements, he did in fact exist, and, like de Villiers said preached love and reconciliation. What’s so wrong with that?
You have proof that Jesus existed?
Like I said above there is ample evidence. Documentation, including his arrest warrant signed by Pontius Pilate, written testimonials of those who bore witness to his baptism, sermons and execution. I’m not for one second suggesting that he ever walked on water, or rose from the grave but Jesus of Nazareth was as real as Genghis Khan or Tutankhamen, and saying he wasn’t is, to quote dAVID, “willfully stupid”.
I think you’ll find you’re mistaken, PJ. Please direct me first to where Jesus’s ‘arrest warrant signed by Pontius Pilate’ is said to be: this is the first I’ve heard of its existence and I should dearly love to inspect it.
As someone who is Christian and gay, I couldn’t agree more. It took me a long time to reconcile my faith and my sexuality and I’m glad that more are now realising that true Christianity and being gay are entirely compatible.
(For those curious on this subject, there is an excellent video on this on Youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezQjNJUSraY )
It is so sad to see people wasting their lives by living it based on the fearful ramblings of illiterate desert goatherds in the Sinai desert thousands of years ago They thought the Sun drowned in the sea at night and thought it grew anew in the morning. Hardly people twenty first century humans should be
looking to for guidance on living their lives. I am sad for you and your delusion, frankly.
Why are you a christian?
You have zero evidence of the existence of ‘god’.
Your belief in ‘god’ is a dangerous lifestyle choice
How so? How does it harm him, or anyone else?
David, even to talk in terms of the “existence” is wrong. The state of ‘being’ is better but it still uses symbols to describe what is indescribable in speech. God cannot be proved or described – only felt. One cannot describe the ekstasis felt from music, literature or love – to be known it must be felt where words would fail.
Scriptures are not to be frozen in time. The old myths of the bible must be reinterpreted and renewed for the present day – much in the same way that I have seen King Lear interpreted in many different ways to reflect many different places, spheres and times. They speak to truths of human behaviour and meaning to life. They cannot be taken literally.
What is sad is to see Paddy, sounding old and embittered, criticising other gay people for their lifestyle due to a closed and cynical mind and a damaged experience.
de Villiers wrote “God cannot be proved or described – only felt.”. So, like a dream, or delusion, then? Or an itch. Or that backache that kept you off work the other day. Many things, from natural bodily sensations to alien abductions cannot be proven. It is very convenient.
Tyler’s death was an absolutely tragic event, and it is despicable for anyone to share an intimate image of someone without their permission, and even more so to take that image without the person’s permission, violating their right to privacy.
One of the problems is that there are teen flick films where such actions are depicted and treated as though they are hysterically funny. I am sure this encourages copy-cat actions by some immature and impressionable teens.
The article highlights the appalling role that homophobic religious outfits play in ruining the lives of LGBT people. As a society, we should be doing much more to challenge religious homophobia.
(P.s. It would be great if PN articles could be proof-read for basic errors before publication. It feels kind of disrespectful to be invited to read articles with basic structural and lexical mistakes that could be easily corrected. Happens a bit too much in PN pieces.)
Well you have to remember that nearly ALL the US related stories on Pink News are recycled from US blogs 1 or 2 days after appearing there.
Pink News is appalling in how its articles are edited and often it looks like the articles have barely even been proofread (perhaps they simply trust that the US blog which wrote the article, would do the basic editing for Pink News.)
I like reading the PN articles, and it is very useful that they collect global LGBT news and republish it in this way, sending e-mails and Tweets.
Sometimes I want to share links to PN articles though as evidence, when I am arguing online with anti-gay campaigners or discussing LGBT issues, and it is a bit embarrassing when the articles have not been proofread.
I just feel it would be a welcome gesture of respect to ensure their articles are carefully proofread before publication. It feels a bit as though PN do not regard the readership as important enough to have to bother checking what they have written before dishing it up to us. The articles are not long, after all. It is as though they can’t be bothered.
Just because we are LGBT, it certainly doesn’t mean we deserve second best.
A basic knowledge of English and grammar would be required to proof read and unfortunately that seem to be in short supply amongst the writers on PN staff….do they get paid one wonders?
That’s a little bit harsh, Paddyswurds!
I think that just a bit more care over drafting pieces, and a final proof-read, would do the trick.
If you have such a problem with PN why on earth do you bother to keep coming on here!
Are you a member of PN staff?
I explained in the very post to which you have replied why I “bother to keep coming on here”:
“I like reading the PN articles, and it is very useful that they collect global LGBT news and republish it in this way, sending e-mails and Tweets.
Sometimes I want to share links to PN articles though as evidence, when I am arguing online with anti-gay campaigners or discussing LGBT issues, and it is a bit embarrassing when the articles have not been proofread.”
It is annoying and frustrating that PN do not proofread consistently enough. The situation is not so bad that I want to stop reading PN, but I was hoping that a note on this board might be helpful feedback to the editor and result in some improvment. PN is good, but why shouldn’t it be even better? And do you really think I should disappear instead of suggesting a simple improvement? Is PNville a totalitarian state?! :)
There are many Christian communities that DO accept everyone. And there are more and more everyday. I so agree with Tyler’s mom Jane..if your church can’t accept LGBT’s in, then find a church that does. I have found one..I hope she can too. So many people are being turned off to Christianity. I am so sorry and sad that this beautiful young person had to die. He looks like such a nice kid! When are all churches going to get with it..how many more young people are going to be shamed into suicide? All my heart goes out to his parents, his brother and other family members. I am from NJ and crossed the GWB everyday. I have lived in exile from the US because simply to live with my partner of 17 + years. We have been here over 9 years. When is the US going to get with it and stop destroying its citizens lives? And when are Christians going to start acting like Christ? As Gandhi said “I like your Christ…but I don’t like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ”.
Out of interest, to where did you relocate?
Tom Hoppel – christianity is ridiculous.
There is no proof for the existence of ‘god’ so to continue to believe in it is being wilfully stupid.
Perhaps with a little more thought (she has been to school after all) she will realise that ‘god’ is a fictional character for wilfully ignorant people.
While you may be right you’re not wining anyone over by being offensive.
This is a very interesting test for the Church – when divorce came along they had to change the rules and comply otherwise that would have been the end of the Church – now this is their next big test. In the free world religion will have to adapt or die – sadly it will probably be the former.
Well actually a tolerant religion is no worse than liberal laws, if people want to live in false hope why not let them as long as they are not trying to run my life or brainwash my family.
How is it being offensive to point out the fact that belief in a fictional ‘god’ is wilful stupidity?
I think it’s the wilful stupidity part that is offensive, as you probably know.
However, it doesn’t really matter what you say, my general observation has been that religious people take offence no matter how nicely the idea that there is no god is put to them.
I find it interesting it took her three years to leave the church with the anti-gay stance. If she had left three years before, in 2006, Tyler might be alive.
The historical precedent of needing a sacrificial lamb to invoke change has got to stop!
If anyone feels the need to have some god or spiritual path to follow, then perhaps todays lead story on Nepal and the Buddist faith should be seen as a breath of fresh air and a genuine faith option for those oppressed by their current religious anti gay teachings.
Notice that the mother didn’t originally perceive her condemnation of her son’s sexuality as a rejection. I think this is common among homophobes – they perceive being gay just as a peculiar habit involving the genitals and not a way of loving and having relationships. They therefore think their negative attitude should be no more hurtful than not sharing someone’s taste in music. The lack of empathy they show can be brutal.
This news is very reminiscent of the true story of Bobby Griffith, which was made into a film in 2009 – Prayers for Bobby :-
Why don’t more parents leave and denounce homophobic churches? Why does it take a suicide? Some don’t leave even then.
I don’t think you will find us falling over one another to part with our credit card details to buy stuff from a company that rudely posts its irrelevant commercial advertisements in the middle of our discussion thread.