“The Church’s teaching on marriage is unequivocal, it is uniquely, the union of a man and a woman and it is wrong that Governments, politicians
or Parliaments should seek to alter or destroy that reality.”
The Church’s teaching on marriage is irrelevant, and it is wrong that The Vatican, Cardinals
or Priests should seek to interfere in the lives of people who don’t follow their religion and may or may not even believe in their god.
Sole existence of RKC proves there is no God. He would not tolerate it’s crimes. Amen! Agree?
Go to hell, Cardinal.
He is already there. Giving Gay people the same rights as the rest of society is, in his eyes, a living hell and this has always been the modus operandi of the Roman cult. They have opposed all human rights brought in over the last 500 years.
I wish somebody would send him there very soon, Idiots like him are not worthy of being called human
send him to the place – Pedos all
Why do you think the church hid the endless molestation of kiddies – because the hierachy did the same. We finally convicted one sr priest (monsignor?)
And yet again, an individual who has conspicuously shunned marriage himself is dictating to everyone else that it’s the bedrock of civilisation. If it’s all that important, why don’t you practice what you preach, Cardinal?
I could quite happily accept their viewpoint on this issue if they were to give equal finances and be as passionately opposed (be that in words or demonstrations) against divorce, adultery, sex outside marriage, catholic kiddy fiddlers and everything else that they belive denegrates our society! Hypocrites!
They do — but that, of course, never gets reported on.
In 1949 Cardinal Griffin spent most of his time preaching against the liberalisation of the divorce laws, only to be ignored.
Since recent scandals, the Church now has the most stringent rules for child protection; whilst other religions and organisations are only beginning to come to terms with their past and present problems in that regard.
Anyone who commits adultery / fornication is in a state of mortal sin, just like anyone who sins gravely against the commandments — the Church teaches this as much as anything else.
The Church probably knows that in the foreseeable future, the government will have its own way — but she has a mission, to ‘preach truth’ in season and out of season; whether or not anyone listens is up to them.
Mm, interesting – so if we ignored them in 1949, why can’t we ignore them now, folks? I’m getting sick of reading what this awful man has to say on the issue at every turn…
Catholic “truths” aren’t applicable to the rest of society which is overwhelmingly non-catholic, thankfully. Their truths are all artifical and in most cases, lies. Same-sex civil marriage hasn’t induced demand for heterosexual polygamy, incest or marrying animals as it tries to imply. The roman hierarchy are psychopathic liars and frauds in complete opposition to the teachings of Jesus Christ. If, assuming he or it ever existed and came back from wherever and saw the corruption and the grandeur of these princes (royalty) of the church and their palatial homes, servants, centuries of paedophilia and misogyny and the arrogance to claim it’s the one true church, I don’t think he would consider them his followers. In fact, I think he would destroy it.
The trouble is your Church assumes that it is in exclusive possession of ‘truth’ without any evidence to support such a megalomaniac claim; and is hugely amnesiac about immutable ‘truths’ which it has long since discarded – such as the acceptability of slavery or the sinfulness of lending money at interest. It bleats about others having their own way chiefly when it fails to impose its bigoted dogmas on them. There is basically no reason why anyone who does not share your superstitions should live under laws dictated by them.
And where is your outrage and anger for the victims of the perverts amongst your ranks, O’Brien? Exactly. Never trust a man like you, never trust a man who doesn’t do a proper job who stands behind a book spouting out hate, and never, ever trust a man who thinks he can tell people who they can shag when his own religion forbids him from indulging in sex.
Maybe if you had sex a little more often – and not with teenage boys, O’Brien, we’d all take you more seriously. But you don’t, and we won’t. And this is why your church of poisoned minds is dying on it’s feet, you grotesque man.
Stop calling him a man, he is not, he is not worthy of our time. He helps his pedophile priests hide from the law, has sent his people to Uganda to preach hate and murder of LGBT people. this is not someone you could call a Man (man of god even) because his is following the devil. he preaches hate and inequality.So why do we him him any attention. either have him charged and in court for all his hate mongering or have him sent back to Rome in a wooden jacket. (coffin)
It might be pertinent to say here that Scotland is not a Catholic country. It is the same as the rest of the United Kingdom – a Protestant country. By the rantings of Cardinal O’Brien you would be led to believe otherwise. Go away O’Brien. You are just a silly pernicious old numpty in a funny hat and frock. A pantomime on legs if ever there was one
Scotland is not a Protestant country either! There is no ‘official’ state religion as church and state are completely independent of each other. Unlike England where there is a state religion and an ‘established’ church. O’Brien takes his orders from Rome and has no interest in the wishes of the people of Scotland.
Meanwhile, on planet Earth, the sky won’t fall in, or quakes won’t happen or some such other notion.
People will be trying to get on with their lives while silly shouty people jump up and down telling us how happy we’d be if we all lived according to only their rules.
Here we have it. This guy is quite explicit that the state is obliged to comply with the arbitrary and superstitious doctrines of his church. This institution has never reconciled itself to the arrival of liberal democracy.
Just as it has never stopped talking vague unprovable gobbledygook and unhistorical bilge to try to defend its limitless arrogance.
Oh bring it on MR O’Brien, please… bring it on. Those of us who support equal marriage have our own “body”, it’s called the Government. Waste your resources if you like, throw your money and time behind the prevention of human happiness, history will just throw your actions on to the rest of the pile marked “travesties”, a pile which is becoming more and more mountainous with every sentence you spew.
I wish he would channel his energies into feeding the poor or sheltering the homeless.
Yet when nuns in the United States tried doing just that (by expanding ‘their traditional work in schools and hospitals to include advocacy on issues such as the environment, nuclear weapons, poverty and social justice’), what did the Vatican do? It blasted them for “failing to support official Church teachings on issues such as abortion, same-sex marriage and the all-male priesthood”.
Clearly, dogma and toeing the line are more important to the Vatican than good works.
At every turn they expose themselves for the bigots that they are and show why they are irrelevant in any modern society.
“The Church’s teaching on marriage is unequivocal: it is uniquely the union of a man and a woman, and it is wrong that Governments, politicians
or Parliaments should seek to alter or destroy that reality.”
No politician is seeking to alter the Church’s teaching on marriage. The Church is seeking to restrict the civil definition of marriage.
The Catholic Church has had a different view of marriage from that of the Scottish government for many years. The Catholic Church believes it is the union of one man and one woman, for life, indissoluble, whereas the Scottish government considers marriage to be the union of a man and a woman for life unless they get a divorce.
Despite the existence of this fundamental difference in definition, the Catholic church has not ceased conducting marriages, the European courts have not intervened, and frogs have not rained from the sky.
Why does the Church hierarchy feel such a compulsive need to violate the Ninth Commandment?
Probably because they know that the translation and interpretation of the bible verses upon which their teachings on homosexuality are based don’t stand up to scriptural analysis. But they’ve never needed to worry about that before because social stigma surrounding homosexuality meant that nobody ever questioned what they were told. Equal marriage means more gay people being seen in the same way as any other family unit, stripping away the ignorance and making it harder for anti-gay religious organisations like the RC Church to portray LGBT as an abstract concept. As LGBT become more accepted and not seen as boogey men but real people, the more difficult the questions are on how christian teachings against it are justified. The issue strikes at the heart of the Church’s hypocrisy, it’s cornered so it’s going to fight tooth and nail to delay being shown up.
I live with my partner in Spain – a hugely Catholic country – which has had full-on gay marriage since 2005.
I can tell you, Cardinal O’Brien, that Spanish society has not fallen apart as a result of this, the Spanish people fully accept the rights of others to live their lives as they wish, without seeing it as a threat to straight marriage in the least.
It is a sorry comment on the Catholic Church in Scotland that you obviously feel so insecure.
‘My husband and I’ were married in a civil ceremony in Spain in 2005. Spain is supposedly a catholic country but many gay and lesbian couples have been married here. The catholic church would like the government to repeal the law allowing civil marriage but your average person in the street has accepted it as an equality issue.
•Lev. 18:22, “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”
•Lev. 20:13, “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them”
Is not about the Church, it’s about the bible.
A Bible which is also followed by the Quakers who are in favour of extending marriage rights to same sex couples. So it’s not as simple as stating that it’s the Bible.
Plus I haven’t heard O’Brien calling for gay people to be stoned to death. And nothing mentioned in those Biblical verses mentions same sex marriage at all. So is it the Bible or is it the Church?
and the passages that teach us to kill unruly teens, or that women should shut the hell up in places of worship or that prawns are unclean or i cant wear my jeans with my cotton shirt…….ET frickin CETERA….
follow it ALL of it or NONE of it
Yeah we must do what the bible says. Genesis 19:31-36
31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
Moron. THe bible also condones heterosexual polygamy, Solomon comes to mind, 300+ wives, the stoning to death of women for adultery and the killing of children (all part of traditional marriage) for insolence as well as heterosexual incest. You need to read Deuteronomy and other books of the old testament and stop cherry-picking two questionable parts written by Jewish clerics that you think justify discrimination against gay people. There is plenty in that book of fairy tale fiction that if you really believed in it and lived by its tenets would make your life unbearable. In fact, you’d end up contemplating suicide. You can’t pick and choose, either you believe in all of it or you don’t.
I am fairly sure that even suicide was frowned up by the sky-pilots as interfering with “gods will”. How may of these clowns have been kept alive by purely medical intervention- or wouldn’t that count as against …More likely if he does exist that he is in no hurry for their company always assuming thats their destination
Leviticus was the book of laws for the Israelites to keep them separate from the surrounding cultures, where cultic pagan worship was the norm. Incest, bestiality and same-sex acts (with male shrine prostitutes) were a common part of this worship. And abomination comes from the Hebrew word toebah which was used to describe things that were EITHER immoral OR an abhorrence of something connected with idolatry.
Know the context within which the scripture was written before you start using it to justify your opinions.
Mike clearly doesn’t understand the Bible. Leviticus was part of the Old Covenant between God and Israel. Jesus purpose and entire basis for the Christian faith is the New Covenant between God and the whole of ‘mankind’, not just Israel. Jesus commanded ‘love one another as I have loved you’.
‘In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.’ Hebrews 8:13
So stop quoting Leviticus, it no longer applies!!
You idiot, as a Christian you need to follow the laws Christ gave, Christians of that time would never have followed Jewish law. they followed Christs law
It’s not all about you. But to listen to the squeals of the religous you could be forgiven for thinking it is. It’s not about the church and it’s not about the bible it’s about recognising Lesbian and Gay relationships for what they are, as good as those of straights.
Vicious old kvnt. Phuq off.
The Lgbt Community seeks Marraige Equality in the eyes of the Law not in the eyes of God! Oppressing SOAB
‘Gay Hate Day’ in the Catholic style. Nothing new. But is Cardinal O`Brien already looking at the quickly vacant St. Peters throne? Ho knows. Gay rights movement play at the moment in the Catholic Church similar role as Protestantism in the times of Contrreformation.
I sincerely hope so,We would be rid of him from Scotland and he can take Conti and the other Tallyman with him!
And it is wrong for religious cults to intefere in purely civil matters. They’re not elected and have no business dictating religious belief on the rest of society most of which aren’t catholic or professing any faith let attend services regularly.
Evil old queen.
It’s so hard not to lose my patience with this daft old coot. Subvert marriage?? Yeah, like allowing women to vote subverted democracy. Not.
How embarrassing to be a so-called holy man and to have such a spiteful vendetta against other human beings. He should be ashamed.
With the number of divorces in the Western world, ‘we’ obviously have become blasé about its importance. And as most couples are heterosexual, shouldn’t the Cardinal pen down a letter for those people as well? They undermining this institute and tradition, not the gays.
The poor man is terrified, isn’t he?
I used to be terrified of the dark, of the monsters I believed were there, without a shred of evidence. This man’s fears are not so very different. I hope that one day he will find the maturity of spirit that most of the rest of us have found…to love and respect one’s fellow Man for who they are and to not try to force one’s own ideologies on to those for whom it is an unwelcome intrusion.
We are all equal before his god. The son of his god did not set himself to be above ordinary men. The hierarchy of man’s piety is man’s invention.
I invite the cardinal to wash my feet.
Sole existence of RKC proves there is no God. He would not tolerate it’s crimes. Agree?
“The Church’s teaching on marriage is unequivocal…”
Never mind that it doesn’t jive with the various forms of marriage, enjoyed by its greatest heroes, promoted in it’s “Holy Book”.
ABEL…married his sister.
ABRAHAM…had an illegitimate child with a maid servant.
SOLOMON…married HUNDREDS of women and kept a thousand more concubines on the side.
DAVID…had many wives and married a married woman after sending her husband to his death in battle.
JESUS…no record that he ever married but he hung out with 12 men.
PAUL…never married and clearly didn’t care for women.
I can’t think of one single biblical hero whose marriage matched the teachings of today’s church!
That letter read out in church refers to Matthew 19:4-5 which is actually about the prohibition on divorce. So really the Catholic church should be honest with their congregations.
The Church of Rome? Honest? NO CHANCE!
Meanwhile, his counterparts in France will have a conniption because the government there is introducing a marriage equality bill in October. More than half the parliament is held by socialists so this too will pass. Tough titty, O’Brien, suck on that.
Let’s not forget that ALL of Adam’s children and ALL of Noah’s children were in incestuous marriages!
And Matt took care of LOT above.
I feel so silly making arguments from fairy tales! Unfortunately the only way to argue with a fool is with foolish arguments!
“Those of us who were not in favour of civil partnership, believing that such relationships are harmful to the physical, mental and spiritual wellbeing of those involved…”
This sentence clearly shows their anti-gay agenda. They virtually say and do everything to undermine equality for gay people. It’s called oppression, a long-standing tradition of the Catholic Church.
Says the man in the frock and easter bonnet
The letter calls on the Government to “place a special emphasis on the role of the family founded on marriage” and stress that “marriage is a unique lifelong union of a man and a woman”.
Excuse me, but last time I looked we were not living in a religious state, that got governed and ruled by religious beliefs.
I sincerely wish that the Church and all religious institutions would get the fact that marriage is a civil issue and not just a religious ceremony and thus get their views out of politics and how the country is governed.
We after all DO live in a multi-cultural, multi faith community.
For marriage is but a civic union between two human beings in a democratic society and it should remain so and it is high time that the church learnt that it should not interfere with state affairs.
The fact that ‘61% of the public agree on and all political parties in Scotland agree on’ that marriages should be open to everyone says where the public voice and opinion lies.
200 people protested against gay marriage outside Holyrood recently. Less than 70,000 people responded to the Scottish Consultation. Of 200,000 SAE’s sent out by O’Brien to Scottish Catholics, only 30,000 were retruned by the Faithful to the Scottish Government. The view of the Scottish people (Scotland has a population of over 5 Million people) is pretty clear. It is the Scottish Catholic Hierarchy that is homophobic, not the people. The greatest number of Catholic clergy I know are gay and that includes the bishops. Yet the bishops like to punish in other people what they hate or cannot cope with in themselves. This is not moral theology, it is psychopathology. His Eminence has lost the fight and is pretty upset at having done so. It is rumoured he wishes to go to Rome for the rest of his career and that because of this he has jettisoned his once very liberal stance in favour of this very radically conservative one. Careerism!
Most of his congregationthese days are mafia ! They are they only “family” catholics know really know about and the only ones left in his crumbling church . So we can hardly expect them to be honest about anything let alone their sexuality !
And the man just digs and digs and digs gradually showing the complete irrelevance of his views and hastening the decline of the church.
The truth about child abuse threatens the Church and the Family because it means children can say no to the men set over them by God. To the Church, it is a price worth paying for discipline and respect.
What a turd! I saw this guy preside over the indoctrination of 8 gay guys into the priest hood last year. The post ceremony garden party was the gayest straight party I have ever been to!
What a fraud! I saw this guy preside over the indoctrination of 8 gay guys into the priest hood last year. The post ceremony garden party was the gayest straight party I have ever been to!
The man has obsessive hatred of gays and the LGBT Community. I no longer think that he is normal or rational. He is displaying similar signs to that of a psychopath that includes obsessive and compulsive behaviour with the probability of another Breiviik in the making. Something is going to snap inside his head and he is going to hurt someone. I feel that the British authorities need to be informed about O’Brian. He could be a real threat to society. He needs psychiatric help and sharpish before he hurts someone. He is actually trying to terrorise the LGBT Community and his own congregations and no one is doing anything to stop him.
The real “grotesque perversion” is O’Brien’s perversion of the truth!!!
The Catholic Church in Scotland can claim only 19% of the population according to the last Census … 19% does NOT constitute a majority; and 19% is probably a significant exaggeration as people will claim religious allegiance on a census form but don’t actually practise that faith.
You think the Catholic Church cares about not being the majority?
They want to have the world to submit to them whether they want to or not, reardless of percentages
I want to quote what the wonderful Monica Zetterlund says to the priest in the excellent Swedish film “The emigrants”, but I’m not sure the language would be allowed here.
A very polished and diminished version would be: “Then you stood there with your appendage in one hand and the money in the other. You silly priest”.
No Thanks ! This is a secular issue and hopefully all people wishing to wed gay or straight should first register with their local registry office before being married.
They are desperate and by that being said the only thing left for them to do is creating all this lies in order to save their almost non existent institution , it’s just a matter of time , France is next in the fight for equal rights and am sure more countries will be following , just make sure we protect our societies by not letting some individuals to destroy with their archaics religious beliefs !
The Catholic Church is an antiquated institution which is exclusive and most definitely full of hypocrisy.
The Governments of the world need to distance themselves from the Catholic Church and all other religious institutions. Religion should not play any part in the decision making process of state policies and laws.
Thankfully we do not live in a religious state and the current leaders in the UK believe in total equality for the LGBT community in all corners of the UK.
Certainly Alex Salmond wants to distance himself from O’brien. The RC.s own the labour party in Scotland.Most of the SNP’s support comes from areas where RC’s are decidedly thin on the ground! This buffoon may actually be strenghtening the SNP’s position as Scotland is a polarised society where many people will believe same sex marriage to be right simply because O’brien says its wrong.
This is disgusting.
Cardinal Keith O’Brien should change his name to Richelieu, considering his open desire to replace Scotland’s chosen democracy with a Papal Theocracy.
If Cardinal Richelieu wants to rule Scotland so badly, then he can get democratically elected as First Minister in Scotland’s parliament. Or he can petition the Pope to call a holy-war and invade Scotland.
Otherwise he can STFU, and get to grips with the notion that not everyone cares for his book of bronze age stories, much less the contemptible morals it’s earlier pages contain.
“Mr O’Brien wrote that gay marriage is “madness and grotesque”: “Their attempt to redefine reality is given a polite hearing, their madness is indulged. Their proposal represents a grotesque subversion of a universally accepted human right.”
. . . . . . . . . .
This is a little bit rich coming from a man in a dress, who appears to never have had a relationship, apart from with his own inflated ego.
Haven’t we heard enough from this bitter deluded old queen, O’Brien….?
STFU, Cardinal Bigot! He looks like a dirty old c***t.
The BBC coverage suggested that this bunch are somehow important in Scottish life instead of being no more than a monor sect! O’brien Represents at most 600.000 people out of a population of 5.2 million. In reality there are probably only about 300.000 practicing members of the church of Rome in scotland this crowd are the perfect example of empty vesselos making the most noise! Even among practicing RC’s more than half (80% one poll suggested) supported Gay Marriage. It woukd seem that this gang have now infiltrated the BBC!.
they do seem to get a lot of airtime for such an irrelevant bunt of no-marks and liars
The church is acting like its in power and was put their by voting members of the entire population! It was not, and after this and other shameful episodes it never will be!! The church can teach on any subject it likes. Bit it is NOT NOT NOT the law!
O’Brien, heed the words of Archbishop Desmond Tutu, “I cannot be anything other than what God made me”.
God made us, God loves us, God wants us to get married.
Only the Anti-Christ, claiming to represent God, would oppose God.
Keith O’brien huckster and parasite on society.
I don’t believe Keith O’Brien has any conscience or opinions of his own, he is just a self-interested jobsworth unthinkingly following cruel and stupid directives from the Vatican, in so doing he has no moral credibility at all and should be ignored.
‘today we can save marriage from subversion by gays’
Fine… Today, we can save the majority from being brainwashed by the church into believing an invisible sky fairy exists. Today we can educate people into accepting everyone, no matter what their sexuality.
Why is the church so damn concerned with saving their idea of marriage?
marriage as you see it, church person, should not be for the exclusive right of hetero couples. Its about time gay guys got a slice of the cake too!
So, be quiet, and get back to the candle fiddling… err I meant polishing duties
Why dont you follow Lord Maginnis and disappear
It’s curious how the Catholic Church has managed to get themselves in the headlines with all this nonsense, making themselves look like reactionary fools out of step with society…..It now seems like an age ago that they were in all the news for completely different reasons – the sexual abuse of thousands of children by priests over decades, all with the full knowledge of the Church hierarchy, including the current Pope……I wondered how they’d squirm out of that one: perhaps this has now become apparent – better to be thought a reactionary fool than a predatory paedophile…
Is the cardinal going to wear red taffeta or a little red chiffon number? How about dance shoes with a med or flat heel ! The beanie should be dreessed up with feathers or a brooch.I don’t understand crossdressers yammering about same sex marriage.
Cardinal Keith O’Brien is so straight, (titter! titter!)
Oh, yes, every woman’s dream.
Should we really take any notice of strange men who wear red dresses, nevermary or have any relationshipwith women (unless of course we include the thousands of priests who abusegirls, boys and anything else they can get their hands on).
Of course the ‘Cardinal (I wonder what he di to get that position in the secret state of the Vatican, which incidentally has more crime per capita than anywhere else in the world) refers to the ‘Old Testament’ teachings, which most theological reseachers have proven are made up stories based on ‘pagan’, Egyptian and Greek stories, nothing to do with ‘Christian’ teachings.
If I was the Cardinal (thank god I’m not) I would spend my time on teaching your minority group of followers the laws you propogate from the Vatican – no condoms, no masturbation, no divorce, the right to abuse women and the physical and mental abuse of children to mention just a few.
must watch for anyone who thinks religion has merit….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTPKuUdjzMc&playnext=1&list=PL139E6CDFF7E1BEE0&feature=results_video
Homophobic but he doesn’t like women and presents himself as a celibate, what he loves is throwing his weight about and he’s become addicted to the power that he borrows from his position in the church.
A vain and self-important asexual travesty.
Why do wackos have a voice in Scotland ??? When i come from they dont even get 1% of public attention