question is – is it open to anyone or just residents – yet again
Is what you are asking is that can two Englishmen travel to France and marry and have their marriage recognised here? What are the rules governing marriage between non-residents of the EU countries that have already brought in marriage equality?
In Israel all marriages have to be conducted in a synagogue but anybody wanting a civil or non-Jewish wedding has to travel abroad to marry but will have their marriage recognised upon return to Israel. This ruling even applies to gay couples.
A French same-sex marriageperformed in France between 2 Englishmen (who will need to be resident in France) will be recognised as a marriage in France.
In the UK it will be downgraded to a CP though, if the couple decide to move back to Britain.
France already recognises gay marriages of foreing nationas. It recognises foreing CPs as a PACS and never upgrades them to a marriages.
You have to be resident in France to do a PACS so I guess you’ll have to also be resident there to get married. French nationals can do a PACS and probably get married in the embassy in London.
We’ve had enough time to realise allowing same-gender marriages and families do not have any more negative effects than opposite-gender families/marriages have.
The French are certainly moving a lot faster than those in England & Wales and Scotland !
Shows what can be done when you have the will.
Exactly. No degrading consultations on marriage equality that seem to go on forever. You just do it. People will freak out, sleep on it and it’s over. Look at Canada!
they will scream and bitch for a while but then they move on (at least they seem to)
The consultation took place within the Parti Socialiste.
“Shows what can be done when you have the will”
Actually, it shows what can be done when you have the popular support and all the votes you need in the legislature
Considering they’ve mostly been a secular republic since Napoleonic times, they should be finishing this process before the UK does.
Good luck France..
Great news! I hope this bill gets approved very quickly.
Well done France Great news.
Puts our foot-dragging bureaucrats to shame. France will definitely be the next country to legalise it, amazing in such a very short period of time compared to the lengthy process we’re going through in the UK. Our bill is a long way off from being drafted yet the French do it in a very timely and efficient manner in just a few months. Only one debate then a vote. Instead, we have to go through two readings then a vote before it goes to the HoL where its passage hangs in the balance, no guarantees of it passing either, even if it squeaks by in the Parliamentary vote. At least the French Parliament has more than enough votes to pass it without any interference from the conservatives whose votes probably won’t be needed.
It doesn’t matter about the Lords, since the 1911 parliament act they can only send the bill back for review 3 times for government review. Also the govt could just guillotine the bill through regardless. Gay marriage is an inevitability, the only question is how long and how loud the religious and the bigots can scream and struggle in the meantime.
Shame on you for translating what was said ‘In October, we will send a bill to the National Assembly and the Senate to allow same-sex couples to marry. It would also allow them to form families and adopt children.’ and translating it into ‘gay couples will be allowed to marry’. You are incorrect in using ‘gay’ as if it is interchangeable with ‘same sex’. Many same sex couples include one or 2 bisexual people (or people who identify as pansexual or in other ways). I know Pink News is a ‘Gay’ news service not a LGBT news service but you should still know better than this practice which pretends that bisexuals do not exist.
Surely, if the bisexual person is in a relationship with someone of the same sex then that would be classed as a gay relationship?
And if a bisexual person wants to marry someone of the opposite sex – that is already legal.
Why is UK law falling behind Spain and now France, despite that these are “Catholic” countries?
Maybe exactly because they are Catholic. Portuguese, Spanish and French people are more tired of their homophobic and hateful church than the British people are of their own church.
It is the laïcité. Religion is a private matter.
France is a secular country and has been since the revolution.
Spain is far from being a Catholic country, depending on the province, and its constiution excludes, unlike the UK (which doesn’t have a consitution) the establishment of a religion.
Not just Spain and France, but Argentina and Portugal, and soon Colombia and Uruguay, all Catholic countries.
Almost all the marriage equalitycountries are Catholic, or more accurately post-Catholic or non-practicing Catholic.
In all these cases (plus Quebec and states in Brazil and Mexico), the politcal dynamics were the same. The Catholic church had been closely allied to repressive totalitarian or fascist regimes; it imposed its repressive values through law and abused its authority (and often its children).
The church thus lost its moral authority, especially in all sexual matters, and earned the widespread emnity of the people, who thoroughly stripped the church of its power when the regime was finally thrown out.
The dynamics are different in Poland, where the church was seen to be against, not for, the repressive regime.
I don’t understand Italy, though. It should be socially liberal and secular, but isn’t. Perhaps it is due to the educational system.
Viva la France!!! :D
o – la – la !! La vie est belle!
Congratulations France. If only Germany could get rid of Merkel and her Vatican- loving Bavarian associates!
Hahahahaahahhaha I loved this one. Frau Merkel is a betrayer in every sense of the word. No only does she betray her Lutheran principles her late father taught her, but also she betrays all Europe in the way she has chosen to tackle the financial crisis.
I can’t help but notice that once France and the UK pass marriage equality the only western European countries left without equality will be Germany, Austria and Italy with Switzerland staying neutral.
Gee, Where have I seen that alliance before? If I remember correctly those three chumming with each other didn’t work out so well the first time!
Yes, I’m aware of Ireland. It didn’t fit into my clever observation so I ignored it.
Look at me, I’m Sarah Palin! ;)
Actually Ireland was (officially) neutral in WW2, so your analogy works just fine!
Although maybe not in the best possible taste… ;)
I’m not so sure anymore that the UK will implement Marriage Equality!
That snake-oil salesman David Cameron used to work in PR ie he lied as his profession.
Marriage equality could exist by Christmas 2012 if the political will existed.
English people are obsessed with Hitler and the Second War World. Everything always bases itself on the same reference point.
Um, and how does that apply to me, an American of Scottish descent?
And for the record I didn’t mention Hitler, YOU did!
I pointed out that in the entire histories of those three nations only twice have they been in an alliance with each other contrary to the rest of western Europe. And both times they’re WRONG!
It ill behooves a French person to mention the war. France is hardly
on high enough ground to call out anyone on mention of H1tler or the war. We have not forgotten Vichy France you know De Villiers…..
Don’t be dishonest Hayden. Your reference was a direct one to the German Alliance during the Second World War. You did not mention Hitler by name but it was clearly implied.
As for my reference to the English, that means Anglo-Saxons. Look at Paddy’s childish and idiotic reference to the Vichy regime as a suggestion that a French person cannot criticise such inappropriate references. As if any French people have forgotten Vichy, which resulted almost in civil war, the deportation of Jews and the terrorism of the resistance.
Americans are even more obsessed than the English. Every discussion on France leads to a suggestion that they surrendered during the Second World War and every discussion on Germany leads to a suggestion of the Nzais.
I would be surprised if either you or Paddy had family members interned in German camps and can recognise the devastating effect. Think of that before you make casual references to one of the most evil times in European history.
“The terrorism of the resistance” Really? To condemn the Resistance while making light of the Vichy is the measure of you and is highly indicative of where you would stand were you around during WW2.
The capitulation of the Vichy is a shame the French will probably endure for centuries, especially the betrayal of French Jews.
I am not privey to Hayden’s family’s part in the war but my family done their bit both here in Ireland and as part of the Irish Brigade of the British Army.
Paddy, you really are a despicable person. I made no light of Vichy. I criticised in strong terms. However, the resistance were to some French more dangerous than the Germans in that they would steal, appropriate and kill those they considered to be ‘traitors’ without trial – which was used to murder innocent French men and woman. As I say, you really are manipulative, embittered and nasty.
If the UK doesn’t get on the ball, there’s a very real possibility that it could find itself falling behind France, New Zealand, Australia, Colombia, Ecuador, Uruguay, Mexico, Taiwan and Vietnam.
There’s even an outside chance that the UK could fall behind the USA if the Supreme Court surprises everyone and hands down a wide sweeping ruling on one of the many marriage equality cases coming before them in the next year.
I would think that this fact would light a fire under the governments in London and Edinburgh.
Once Ecuador legalises same sex marriages, there will be even more people willing to seek refuge at their embassy in London….. lol
Same-sex marriages are forbbiden by the Ecuadorian Constitution. :/
America is a Christian nation and all her blessing are derive from God (Jesus) because of this fact. In the Last 50 to 60 years, America has exchange her heritage, as Adam and Eve, did to Satan and is suffering economic, natural and social disaster. Our liberal ideas have led us astray away from God through Satan’s deception. We as a Godly people should no longer be lead astray by the youthful lust of our flesh but return to Jesus that he may heal our land of the terror that lurk in our streets and government. Don’t be deceived by President Obama. We not called to be a nation of adulterers and fornicators and baby killers that will kill even the unborn that by the grace of God accidently survives an abortion only to be slaughtered because some Satanic law passed by man believes it is above God’s will. No wander, the more Government tries to solve our problem the deeper and worse the problems become. President Obama’s administration is Satanic in nature and has led this nation i
So within 5 months of the election France will have equality.
Yet we’re being told that we MIGHT get equality by 2015.
There is no reason (other than typical Tory bigotry) why Britain should not have civil rights equality by christmas.
This “typical Tory bigotry” is what is allowing the debate to be had at all. The last government could have recognised same sex marriage but thought Civil Partnerships were good enough. Was that “typical Labour bigotry” ?
Well it was bigotry on the part of the Labour Party for sure.
But the Labour brand has not been as thoroughly poisoned with disgusting bigotry as that of the Tories.
The very fact that in 2012 the Tory Party thought it was appropriate to ‘consult’ with the public on our civil rights and for David cameron to declare our equal civil rights are a matter of ‘conscience’ shows the ugly, bigoted face of the modern Tories.
December 2012 gives the government PLENTY of time by which to introduce equal civil rights.
It will not happen however because of Tory homophobia.
The centre left-wing Socialist Party in France have certainly acted very quickly on proposed laws on marriage and adoption equality. They have seemed to missed an opportunity to reform the surrogacy and IVF laws as well?!
France was in fact one of the first way back in 1791 to Decriminalize sex between two people of the same sex. It is a complete joke and a complete disgrace that my own country Australia can not move forward on marriage equality and it is looking very embarrassing to the whole world!
They have not acted quickly in historical terms – they made no such law under Jospin or Mitterrand. They have, however, acted quickly under Hollande.
If France can do this in months from a newly elected government, then what on earth is Cameron and his chums up to with all the consultations and a possible inclusion into law by 2015!!! WE WANT OUR RIGHTS NOW!
As well as gaining our equal civil rights I think we are owed an explanation as to why our equal civil rights are subject to a public consultation.
It was grotesque in the extreme to have a public consulation on a minority’s civil rights.
David cameron needs to get his finger out.
We demand equality by christmas 2012.
No excuses are acceptable. Any delays are down solely to Tory homophobic bigotry.
One to put on your Christmas wish-list. It is not rocket science for the government to hold a free vote on the issue. Labour, the Lib-Dems, the SNP and Plaid Cymru will all vote for it although half the Tory MP’s will be against as will most of the Ulster and Democratic Unionists but by that reckoning three-quarters of the MP’s will vote in our favour. What I do not want to see are rows of empty benches in the Commons when the vote eventually takes place. The sooner the government gets the issue of marriage equality out of the way the better as there is still 2 1/2 years for them to concentrate on other issues before they have to call an election.
Why hasn’t Stonewall issued a press release condemning the grotesquely homophobic ‘consultation’ and told the government that they need to legislate for equality by Christmas 2012?
Or are they simply pretending to support LGBT equality (Ben Summerskill was not sacked for his homophobia on the matter of equal LGBT civil rights after all.)
If the UK legislators do pass same sex marraige equality legislation what will happen I wonder to the current Civil Partnership laws. Would they be altered to allow opposite sex couples to have them, or will they be made redundant by the emergence of marraige equality. If the Civil Partnership Act is repealed, what would happen to those current partnerships ?
Well thanks to the point blank refusal of Labour to legislate for equality in 2005, this is an are that has yet to be determined.
Labour have undermined the institution of marriage by inventing a ‘separate but not quite equal’ legal relationship which should remain on our statute books and be available to any couple who still wants one.
The obvious answer is to go the Dutch route where same-sex and opposite sex couples have equal access to either cp’s or civil marriage.
I would think CPs would remain for those who want them and I doubt they would be replaced or the law repealed. Some gay people don’t want to marry just as some straight people don’t. Some gay people just want a CP. Fine with me, as long as both options exist. What I do object to are gay people especially who believe that marriage isn’t necessary just because they don’t want it but who want us denied that right.
It would be unacceptable to maintain cp’s unless straight couples can access them as well though.
I must admit i had doubts on weather Hollande would put forward marriage equality that was part of the reason i supported his primary opponent Martine Aubry last year. But im glad he has proved me wrong :) its good to see that France has a progressive president that has a vision of making France a more equal place to live. :D
Sorry i dont get what you mean there ?
….you wrote “I must admit i had doubts on weather Hollande” You should have said or i presume meant to say ” I must admit i had doubts on whether Hollande” Weather refers to atmospheric conditions like wind rain etc and is the wrong word. The correct word is “whether”
Aright sorry, my grammar mistake.
……phucing American spell check
…nothing wrong with your grammar or spelling …just the wrong word which can happen if you use Voice Recognition…..
I guess it was just one of those words that i got the spelling mixed up with the different meaning.
Such a shame that once again the Mother of Parliaments is so woefully tardy on this issue and being left behind by real democracy’s.
It is time the Law &Justice Homophobic Tory party stepped up to the plate. CallmeDave is adept at waffle but when it comes to action he is sorely wanting…..
democracies** even :-)
….Democracy’s is also valid as American spell check will indicate although if I had noticed I would have changed it to Irish English as i abhor the awful mess that is American English…. ;-)
Not valid as the plural of Democracy, though!
Eye am knot sew shore ewe can all ways rely on yaw spell chequer to putt sum thing write wen thee sense is wrong…
Well done France you are ahead of England Scotland and Wales and most of Europe. It will be interesting to see if any of the emerging new European countries, Poland, Lithuania etc will follow suit.
I honestly doubt it. From the ex-communist European states, it will most likely be the likes of Slovenia and the Czech Republic that will be there first, and not even these too soon.
I hope that they don’t pussyfoot over same sex marriage unlike our own government who is dragging the debate out when all they need is a free vote in Parliament when they reconvene in the autumn.
Interestingly the introduction of marriage equality in France will also apply to France’s overseas territories including French Guiana which are governed as part of France with MP’s being elected directly to Paris. This is unlike Britain’s remaining overseas territories which are self-governing. As well as far-flung places such as the Falklands and Pitcairn Island they include the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, the latter of which delayed decriminalizing homosexuality until 1992.
And of course, Northern Ireland won’t be included in the England and Wales bill either.
Is it not possible to have a marriage equality private member’s bill introduced when parliament meets again next month?
The endless foot-dragging on this issue has become unacceptable.
I’m convinced if we didn’t have a state cult, we’d be in the same position France is in. How I wish we had their system of government. Far more ahead of ours where a majority in parliament can pass legislation without the votes of the opposition and no anachronistic, undemocratic House of Tossers to decide who is entitled to rights.
How insulting is it to the LGBT community in the UK, to be faced with the fact that Marriage Equality is becoming law in countries around the world. People in those countries will be celebrating their 1st, 2nd, or perhaps 3rd anniversary
The consultation process chosen by the UK looks more and more like a deliberate attempt to defer the issue, determine public attitude before “committing” to legislating equality
Too much political correctness if you ask me, too much kow-towing and deferring to religious cults and their cultist followers’ feelings. This doesn’t concern them one iota since it’s a purely civil issue and has nothing to do with religious marriages or religion. The two are distinctly separate but they fail to understand that. It proves that there isn’t any difficulty to legislate for it or pretend that it takes time to get it right. It doesn’t because France has proved otherwise, no nonsense or procrastination. They’re just getting on with it and doing it. Obviously it was a priority to Francois Hollande’s government and not to David Cameron’s. I don’t buy our government’s argument that it’s not a priority because of CPs. Well, France has PACs for both straights and gays and didn’t think it wasn’t a priority. Even there it was ahead of the UK. It’s bloody religion holding everything up, let’s face it.
……. It isn’t religion per se that is holding up things in the UK. It is out and out cowardice on the part of the Law & Justice homophobic Tory party. France is a Roman cult country but her politicians are not in thrall to Rome and we are seeing the result. It is time the UK showed the state cult that it has no part in the governance of the country and got on with the work of Parliament, passing laws for a secular people.
Vive la France ! Long live France ! Es lebe Frankreich ! Lenge leve Frankrike ! ( no. )
Thanks for this article and your reporting. What you do is appreciated.
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Another reason to add to my list to move to France for good!
Vive La France!
Have you ever tried E-Bay? http://www.ebay.com
Is ebay auctioning same sex marriages?