By debate he means – do what we say or you’ll go to hell?
They wont change their beliefs, they just want a forum for more hatred to be created – they know they have lost the battle in the most catholic country in the world
Because of the endless rape of kiddies by their sex starved priests, and their evil workhouses where kids were used as slaves
So many countries in eg Africa and the coastal areas of China, Vietnam etc were economically raped by cahtolic countries like spain, portugal etc as colonies
England also, but the CoE is basically catholic but doesnt report to the last empire of machieavelli, another catholic
From what I can see the CoE is well on its way to at least a neutral position re gays
In Africa it has joined with islamic influence re ggays
Many new priests in the USA come from africa
the church is focusing on africa as a double success – more deluded people and use of Islamic influence re gay people
There is no debate. None at all. Because they want to argue from a position of believing in a bronze age campfire tale – which is not universally believed in, and which does not have a universal meaning amongst those that do. So how can you conceivably debate that?
More smoke and mirrors designed to slow down the process and amply the pain for LGBT couples – a sordid and cruel choice perpetrated by the believers of fairy tales.
They seem to become more and more preposterous as time goes on.
It is time for the catholic church to apologize to the gay community for scapegoating gay people.
Any apology they offer will be as sincere as the one they offered to the victims of their raping and torturing clergy. It will be meaningless because they will continue business as usual.
Including the CoE, the primary cult responsible for the homphobia in the UK.
Sympathetic joy is when we take delight in the happiness of another instead of begrudging it. I do not believe that happiness is a limited resource, that the more someone else has, the less there is for me. I do not believe that heterosexuals have a monopoly on love and marriage. If Ellen DeGeneres is happy in her same-sex marriage, then I am happy for her too.
The Catholic Church does not believe in reasonable debate. It’s their way or Hell.
Their view that all sexual acts must allow for procreation makes it impossible for them to accept homosexuality. The Popes historically have spoken out against Gays and Trans people. To change positions now would undermine the belief in Papal infallibility. Literally, they are between a rock and a hard place. Either continue pushing their midevil and unscientific crap or admit that the Pope is infallible and that the Church teachings are wrong. That would open up a whole can of worms and make people wonder what else they have been wrong about. Is the entire Church theology a con game invented just for power and to control people? I suppose when everyone with any sense leaves and quits donating, they may be forced to change.
Nikki, I think you meant that he’d have to admit he was fallible which he is.
Gay marriage and abortion have nothing to do with each other.
he abortion we most need is the abortion of the power and control of the church.
And take all its trillions of $$- eg its the largest landholder in Ireland, Italy and prob other countries , and give it as microcaptial loans to very poor people eg in africa.
He wants to put it to a referendum, and I can see why.
It will take away the priority say of elected representatives, policy experts, and professionals. Instead leaving the issue open to the charisma of demagogues and intimidation by bullies.
Gay marriage will no longer be an issue of “Is this the right thing to do?”, to which the answer is certainly yes. We will instead be looking at a situation of “Who can make the most convincing propaganda?” To which the answer will be The Church.
Naturally Cardinal Sean Brady will want to have a referendum.
A referendum will inevitibly lead to homophobic adverts appearing at roadsides and in the press-leading to more physical attacks and verbal abuse directed towards gay people. Is this really the way we want to go in a civilised society? To scapegoat a minority?
He’s not preparted to change his views so whats the point. Put up or shut up
Get a spoon and eat my backside.
What does he mean “straight marriages are always preferred”? Who by? Not by gay people, obviously, who would reasonably prefer a gay marriage! What asinine things these fools say.
And not by Catholic clergy either – really the best argument for them shutting up about it.
Remember Michael Palin’s classic quote from the “Life of Brian” debate?
Malcolm Muggeridge: “I started off by saying that this is such a tenth-rate film that I don’t believe that it would disturb anybody’s faith.”
Michael Palin: “Yes, I know you started with an open mind; I realise that.”
Mr Brady calls for an “objective” debate on same sex marriage and abortion. In fact the “objective” debate sought by Mr Brady – and the only debate worth crossing the road for – has been taking place for decades, across our islands.
In the United Kingdom, two positive outcomes of this debate are civil partnerships, and the consignment of back-street abortions to the history books.
The availability of abortion in Britain, to women who feel the need to avail themselves of it, has also proved a lifeline to Irish women who find themselves in the traumatic position of having an unwanted pregnancy. However their guilt and regrets are compounded by having to travel overseas to undergo the procedure.
The Catholic Church’s position on this these matters is well known and from what is reported of Mr Brady’s comments he can hardly be considered a dissenter or maverick.
If the church is not prepared to move their position, what’s the point of debate? The debate is over anyway and they have lost. We don’t debate people’s rights, we ensure that they are exercised.
“I think it would be a retrogressive step to go back to the days of the Catholic church dictating to elected public representatives how it should address an issue.”
Who would have thought the RC Church would ever get a bitch slap like that from and Irish government minister?
Times have changed.
‘I think it would be a retrogressive step to go back to the days of the Catholic church dictating to elected public representatives how it should address an issue’. When we hear this words also at the Westminster and Holyrood?
Errrr how can you hold a reasoned debate with someone or entity who is not prepared to be persuaded into a different position ? With a church whose very philosophies have no basis in reason or fact .
It is not GAY MARRIAGE , it is MARRIAGE, I didn’t have a gay breakfast I had breakfast , I didn’t have gay lunch, I had lunch , I didn’t have a gay walk I had a walk . am sick to death of it being reported as gay marriage , it is equal marriage rights and responsibilities . It is the same marriage ceremony for everyone regardless of race , creed , sexual orientation and gender . We don’t have BLACK MARRIAGE or CHINESE MARRIAGE , we just have MARRIAGE , it is about MARRIAGE .
I love you response, I am also sick of all the lies told by the Catholic church, I also wonder if they are not transgressing the laws with their statements and threats
You have to love the Minister of Communications. Not ONE elected official in the US has had the balls to state the obvious. These bishops still believe that they are in some sort of parallel European aristocracy.
Why does he think we should debate *civil *law with him?
It is impossible to have a reasoned debate with a religious person.
So thanks but no thanks ‘cardinal’ Brady
I’m not sure about that, David.
The church has for years said referendums are constitutionally required on these issues.
Now that people aren’t so sure, the Church is trying to push referendums on their merits.
Abortion on demand WOULD require a referendum, but it isn’t on the cards.
The government wants to legislate on abortion to save the life of the mother, a right the courts have found exists (the X Case), but which is not defined in law. In 2010 the ECHR held that Ireland must clarify the law so women know whether they qualify for abortion. None of this is unconstitutional.
The Supreme Court may comment soon on whether a constitutional amendment is required on marriage equality. If they decide not – no referendum required.
The church is onto a loser here. There’s no appetite for referendums that are constitutionally unnecessary.
I suspect the courts will be cautious, and decide marriage needs a referendum. But the church will still lose – we’ll win the vote.
Which begs the question Mr Brady :- if you consider it good enough for the Irish people, how about some referenda in your organisation which purports to “represent Catholics and Catholic opinon, a few examples come to mind; for a start how about one on the use of contraception followed by one on abortion oooh and here’s one I just thought up- the ability of priests gay & straight to get married ,and then what about directly elected representatives such as bishops cardinals and the pope! …..be careful what you wish for mate!
Please take a flying F… at yourself.
All they have to do is look at Canada, If all will be doom and gloom they prophesize after marriage equality were true the evidence would be clearly visible in Canada today 7 years after Our Queen legalized marriage equality there. Where is the evidence?
The main concern to me is, has sufficient time past yet since the child abuse revelations, has the Catholic Church any right to claim the possession of some sort of moral compass?
What’s the point in having a debate when the church is entrenched with homophobia, bring on Same-Sex marriage onto the Statute book as soon as possible. If France can enact Gay marriage by 2013, we can do the same in England !
From the brilliant HBO show The Newsroom this summer: to not provide an abortion to a piece of matter than can not feel anything, to force a baby to be born to a woman that does NOT want it and might very well kill it later is the most cruel thing of all. How come nobody talks about THAT?
(Paraphrased from the Casey Anthony-ins[pired story line)
You want a debate but refuse to budge? Fair enough, Im the same way. Except I know there’s nothing to debate. The middle-ground between equality and inequality is inequality.
Sean Brady is the senior roman cult leader in Ireland as primate of all Ireland. He is the creep, who, as bishop protected the horrendous paedophile Smith who then went on to abuse over 200 boys and girls some at the same time and may even have murdered some boys at a boys home in the north. Brady forced two fourteen year old boys to sign a covenant in the 70s that they would not reveal their abuse by Brady. He is no in disgrace and there is constant call for his resignation and Rome has already appointed him an “assistant” so he can quietly “resign” within the year. Anyone expecting anything other than double speak and deceit from Brady is fooling themselves.
He is Rome through and through and spent most of his career there firstly under the Pole Karol Wojtyla and then under the naz1 Joe Ratzinger and is ultra conservative.
oops…”reveal their abuse by Brady”……. should read “reveal their abuse by Smith”. **
Never a truer word said.
‘He calls for a debate over gay marriage and abortion but says that the Church is not going to move on the latter’. I doubt if the Church is going to move on the former, either. Personally I feel that LGBT rights and abortion are two, totally separate issues. It may appear that to be Pro Life = Anti Gay while being Pro Choice = Pro Gay. I am pretty sure there are gay people and allies of LGBT people who oppose abortion on demand. After all, if a ‘gay gene’ was discovered and a test for it became available would you still favour abortion if there is a chance that the baby will be gay should he be born?
The strategy here is to link abortion to ‘gay marriage’.
The publication of the leaflet/pamphlet by SPUC claming that to allow gay marriage ( I use the word gay marriage here as this is what they call it – not that I agree with this term) would lead to increase in abortions.
Fast forward a week, and then Cardinal O Brien comes out linking the two together. Watch and listen as the PR of the Catholic Church now tries to in-grain in the minds of the remaining faithful, most of whom would abhor abortions, but wouldn’t necessarily have a problem with same-sex marriage, that these two actions are linked.
I know from first hand life experience what this crowd are like. And trust me, they should never be underestimated.
Their tactics are carefully orchestrated and pre-planned. Nothing is left to chance with the Catholic Church.
I like Pat Rabbitte “I think it would be a retrogressive step to go back to the days of the Catholic church dictating to elected public representatives how it should address an issue.”
I fully agree with you!! and Well Done Pat, you are right to send Cardinal Sean Brady packing. It is a pity that the Scottish Parliament does not do the same with O’Brian.
Stand firm Scotland and stem the tyrannical tide of the RCC.
I like this we must have a debate, but we hold firm on our stance and will not change, so what the hell do you want to debate. Just allow gay people the same rights as straight people, love and respect each other equally. It might also be a good idea for your church to come out and provide all the pedophiles with criminal convictions buy allowing the law to do its job and not hiding all the pedophiles from the law. Also make recompense to all of us who are victims
“We feel that to call it gay marriage weakens the traditional notion of marriage…”
We agree! That’s what we DON’T call it “gay marriage” and we wish you would join us in recognizing that it is just MARRIAGE!
It doesnt matter what kind of “debate” you have, at the end of the day their closing arguement is “well the bible says this end of discussion”. As nobody can actually question the validity of this without them going off on a rant about freedom of religion, it seems pointless to try. So im not.
An “objective” debate balanced by the input of child abusers? Really?
The church, of whatever religious denomination… seems to love poking its nose where its not wanted nor necessary for it to poke its nose into.
The church might have an opinion on gay marriage… so do I.
For far too long, hetero couples have had the cake. its time this cake was shared out fairly between everyone. Who says gay people can’t love? Wake up and get a dose of reality!
No more sodding debates. We are human too ! We want to be equal.
its not a debatge – he just wants another platform to spit out vile against gay people.
You have as much chance of changing the churches official position re gays as reforming the holy ghost of a catholic AH who ran germany from 1933 to 1945.