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Public debate about marriage equality to be held among Pacific communities in New Zealand

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  1. I do rather wonder what exactly is so ‘traditional’ about churches in the Pacific Islands, all of which were imposed by colonisers and none of which (as far as I know) go back further than the 19c.

    1. The real tradition of the pacific islands – because the Abrahamic religions didn’t get there until the 18th century, at the earliest, is one of love, acceptance, and inclusion of family and community members that don’t conform to gender expectations, whether simply in sexual orientation or much more extensive. This has been widely studied and vouched for. Churches often used that to stir rejection of the “old” ways and so there is sometimes a deep divide, but it has rarely been erased.

      So this coming from church people pretty much means they want time to stir up opposition, just as they do most other places. New Zealand, and many of the others islands of the ocean have not been exempt from the work of US pentecostal and evangelical, right-wing “churches” in recent years, using American tax-free income, so they have all the anti-equality resources of the US and Africa to hand, and probably already deployed. This is a small world now.

      So the bill should definitely not be withdrawn.

      1. It is probably relevant that French Polynesia, which shares very similar traditional cultures, and is part of France, will be getting equal marriage when the French government enacts it very soon (if promises are kept).

        1. Pavlos Prince of Greece 16 Aug 2012, 11:09pm

          French Polynesia have a very big autonomy. If I good understand, same-sex marriage law will be valid just in the European part of France and this oversee territories, who have status of department (St. Pietre and Micelon, Guadelupe, Martinique, French Guiana, Rejunion and Maiotte).

  2. Pacific Island traditional views were not helped by adopting British criminalizing sodomy laws, which have been a struggle to repeal on some small island nations.

    New Zealand has the largest concentration of Polynesian cultures in the world. The problem with particularly older Polynesian immigrants to New Zealand is they bring outdated values that don’t fit with mainstream New Zealand’s more liberal views. However the Polynesian communities represent significant voting blocks.

    Ironically yet understandably the young GLBT people in most need of support can be young Polynesians as they are the most oppressed in New Zealand by their own communities.

    It is good that the politicians are organizing these important meetings with community elders in an attempt to get them on board with the marriage equality legislation.

    In general New Zealander’s are largely non religious – however there is a high degree of religiosity in the Polynesian communities.

  3. It should be a simple matter of explaining that churches oppose marriage equality because they think it will lead to competition for little children to rape and they prefer to have exclusive domain on the raping of children. Church leaders should be pressed for deails on the exact number of childred raped in each parish over he last decade and the average amount of hush money paid to keep each victim quiet. It should be noted that the church has no moral standing when it comes to the protection of children and that pedophilia and homosexuality have nothing in commong; that a stronger empiracal connection can be drawn between pedophilia and he clergy.

  4. Perhaps they should have, simultaneously, a public debate on whether Pacific Islander’s are fully human and deserving of equal rights, equal opportunities and equal responsibilities of New Zealand citizenship.

    That would be offensive and insulting you say?


  5. It’s no coincidence that India, Pacific Islanders and vast parts of Africa and the Caribbean share the same “traditional values” that Victorian England had.

    1. Although other colonial powers exported their religions too, and still do, the USA clearly being one now. But the Pacific was colonised much later. Hawai’i was an independent kingdom until 1898, when there was an armed US takeover/putsch.

      1. Wow, I should have known that the laws and traditions in former British colonies are also America’s fault. I’m pretty sure that America killed off the dinosaurs too!

        1. Nah, that’s just an American myth. That creationist museum with men cavorting with dinosaurs isn’t a true representation, you know?

          But fundie churches living off tax free US donations are a fault, as are Mormon missionaries. The Mormon funding of the anti-marriage campaigns in Hawai’i – which should have been the first equal marriage jurisdiction in the world – was overwhelming.

  6. Robert Brown 16 Aug 2012, 4:54pm

    Fafafine / Takatapui / Sister Girl communities have been around for centuries within the Pacific Island communities . . .

    Not sure what the fuss is about . . .

    1. I’ve been trying to post a link to the 2005 documentary ‘The Third Sex – Tahiti’ for 30 minutes now. How do you post links here?

  7. Interesting that the algorithms filtering comments here block the names of pacific territories and the traditional terms used there. Xenophobic much?

  8. I understand that cannibalism was a “traditional value” in the South Pacific well up until the 19th century. Are they thinking of reviving that too?

  9. Why should I care about some illogical beliefs of some immigrants who sit on welfare and clog up our healthcare system? Go back to your s***y islands if you dont believe in basic human rights.

    How about non Pacific I’s have a debate as to wether or not PI’s are apes or humans? How offensive would that be?

    1. “… because it is proving divisive in Pacific communities, and could cost the party votes.”

      That’s why people are worried.

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