Refreshing to hear someone within the church speak the truth and the truth that God would want people to acknowledge…and accept about themselves…
I am sorry to disillusion you but Jeffrey John DOESN’T speak for God in any way shape or form. he only speaks for himself and other gays who who claim to be Christians and deep down know that homosexuality is anathema to a Holy God. Old Testament AND THE NEW. It is Jeffrey John who needs to face up to the truth that he cannot speak for God when his whole life-style denies God’s laws and precepts. The Church od England doesn’t always speak for God either. God has revealed Himself through the Biblre and Scripture. and by the way – If “love” is the only criteria then what about paedephiles!!!!!
Your church is full of hate. Leave it and throw your dog collar in a fire. By being part of a hate cult, you are giving it credibility. CoE, CoS, The Catholic Church, all disgusting relics that belong in the past. You lie with the dogs, you get flees!
As an atheist, I understand your feelings about all of them, but not all of them are bad even though the majority of their respective hierarchies are and are often out of touch with their congregants. More than 50% of catholics alone support equal marriage yet their bishops don’t go as far as excommunicating them and it’s quite obvious why. Their opposition has more to do with power and holding on to it at whatever cost, a power they see being diminished with every passing day, but they don’t realise that their vociferous, hateful opposition is marginalising them as well as alienating them in signficant numbers from their flock. Eventually, like all tyrannical regimes, they become extinct and irrelevant. What they’re doing is actually bringing about their own demise without much effort. Their illogical rants further alienate them and in fact swing support to our side.
Another way of looking at this is that he has directly challenged his church, saying it has no integrity. They are strong words which, had they been made against many employers, would lead to instant dismissal on the grounds of gross misconduct. So Dr Jeffrey John could be seen as quite brave for being prepared to make the stand
@DC78: Faulty logic, I’m afraid; you have to start somewhere.
If everyone left their church at the first homophobic reference, then the homophobes would have free reign and be boosted immensely. That wouldn’t help us one little bit.
We should applaud Dean Jeffrey John for speaking out on our behalf so that others will be encouraged to do so.
Grrr… Pink News needs an Edit function. Should have been ‘Free rein’, of course.
“The Church has never refused to marry a hetreosexual couple that can’t have children, so why refuse gay couples?”
Dr. John, it’s all about ‘sex’, the hetero form that can lead to procreation. They don’t care about an infertile hetero couple as long as there’s a penis and vagina involved, that’s all that matters to them, God’s purpose I suppose in the eyes of the opposition.
What a brilliant man, brave, courageous, a lot of integrity and class. Thank you, Dr. John. The epitomy of what being a ‘christian’ is all about, sadly, the majority of his hierarchy are so unchristlike.
Good on him – a bold stand.
I think that Geoffrey John is a brave and courageous priest. When one considers the way the Church of England has treated him, most people would have jacked in their jobs and given the employers the two fingers. Not so this man, though; he loves his church, even though it has continued to abuse him and decry his beliefs.But even more than the church, God comes first to him and he’s not afraid to admit it.
What a man!
So is god speaking through him, or the archbishop of Canterbury?
You may well ask. Perhaps you could also ask if God was speaking through Jesus or the High Priest Caiphas.
In my opinion, THIS is what a REAL Christian sounds like. A follower of Christ who tries his or her best to be Christ-like! Very well said Dr Jeffrey John!
Hear hear! Let’s hope that Dr John continues to be a really sore thorn in the side of the church heirarchy. Look out for what Dr Rowan Williams has to say about the gay issue once he is isolated from the straight jacket of the established C of E – and I wouldn’t like to probe too deeply into their own sexulity either!
The poor dear.
I know he means well but as an educated person Jeffrey JOhn should know perfectly well that ‘god’ is a man-made invention and is completely fictional.
Terrible isnt it!
I agree with you, but for many of our gay sisters and brothers they take great comfort in the idea that they are embraced by a loving god, and not rejected as abominations.
Unfortunately any mainline church with international denominations or close ties to churches in either the US or Africa are going to be sorely dissappointed. Homophobia is endemic in such organizations.
As a former believer I am deeply saddened for those who remain in faith traditions that actively reject them and force them to live in the closet of self- doubt.
dAVID – you are both correct and incorrect. Is music or poetry any the less valid for being invented by man? The meanings of art are certainly not truth for everyone – although they are for some. There is no rational explanation for most of it.
A person learned in theology or arts may discover artistic, non-rational truths. Truths of man can be discovered in Shakespeare or Moliere, great works of fiction – that are no less valuable for that.
Christianity needs men as Jeffrey John to show a different interpretation of the texts, of the different artistic truths and meanings. It would bring much more happiness to the world and I hope that more men and women like him join the Catholic Church and Protestant churches – and lead an artistic revolution in our learning.
All very well, de Villiers but art does not claim to be other than it is. Trompe l’oeil resembles the truth. It fools the eye but celebrates its trickery. The “art” these theologians practice claims to be fact. Religions do not peddle themselves as creators of lovely, comforting ideas. Few in their congregations are able to see them in this way only. It is all manipulative lies. This destroys the comparison with art.
Art claims much – truth, infallibility, justice, meaning. Music, painting and literature, plays and theatre represent themselves as the truth on a given matter – elevated beyond truth and, in error, into fact.
Religion is no different. It falls into error when it seeks to confuse truth with face – two entirely different and sometimes irreconcilable concepts.
I would never deny that Art makes some quite big claims but Art deals with the artist’s expression of truth, infallibility, justice, meaning. Artists may seek to persuade but so do fraudsters and ad men. The Churches do not admit to having created their myths. The pope will not accept the resurrection as a mere truth. He also classifies it as a fact. Jeffrey John is not offering an artistic version of the texts. The premise that the text is based of fact is wrong, in my opinion. His words are welcome but they just perpetuate the untruths.
Cal, it has never been historically accurate to claim the bible as fact rather than truth. It cannot be because the gospels contain different accounts of the history. The transubstantiation is also a truth rather than a fact – Catholics do not consider themselves cannibals. The body and the blood are in spirit.
I think you and I are probably on the same page about this. Though Roman Catholics are discouraged from questioning inconsistencies in the texts. And, the transubstantiation is believed to be “actual”, not symbolic. Every communion is considered a factual miracle. How can you separate truth from fact in this case? Isn’t this all just semantics?
I appreciate this courageous stand but I’m no more excited to hear that God supports the equal marriage campaign than I would be if someone told me that Zeus, the Tooth Fairy and Big Foot had joined the campaign.
None of them have a book of evil so I’m sure they’re fine with it lol (yes I do know they’re all fictitious)
Oh great, now the deluded think that the imaginary fairy dude in the sky is on our side. As if we didn’t have enough problems……
No, God is NOT Out4Marriage. God doesn’t exist and is a deity made up to control people. This God that the man speaks of is evil, and also only supports marriage between a woman and a man. Read the Bible.
It’s such a shame gay people fall for the lies of a cult like Christianity- here’s some news gay Christians- your cult hates you!
actually he supports marriage between a man and multiple women and condemns divorce MORE times then he condemns gays. Funny how CofE ignore that.
True. But gays are still condemned. Even if you believe that the infamous gay verses are mistranslated, it still says marriage is between a woman and man. Someday, Christianity will be dead, just like other myths, so we won’t have to worry about it, until then, us intelligent people can continue to laugh at their cult that picks and chooses which parts to believe in. They ignore facts!
I believe most Christan divorcees are against same-sex marriage by the way- SMH
Sorry james, but”he2doesn’t exist nor has “he” ever existed.
LOL some Chrisitan cultist(s) thumbing down comments critcizing their evil religion. They can’t face the facts when they’re presented with them- just as close minded as their fictitious deity
and you’re just as hateful, vindictive, and judgmental as the Christians you so blithely belittle.
Do I believe in a made up cult full of evil? No
Do I protest funerals? No
Do I beat, torture, and murder people? No
Do I ignore science/evolution? No
Do I mutilate my body to enable a mental illness? No
Do I tell people to die because they don’t suffer from the same mental illness I do? No
Do I tell butch lesbians and effeminate gay men that they’re trans people in denial? No
Am I a man that tries to get into women’s spaces? No
I speak biological facts and I have morals, unlike Christians or transcultists
There are some messages on this board full of praise, generosity and positivity. And there are yours, Lumi, which are spiteful, hateful and bigoted.
You are not a good advertisement for your brand of atheism.
I don’t give a damn about being a good advertizement. I call it like it is .
This man is outright lying, his fictitious God is an evil misogynistic, homophobic, imbecile, and it disgusts me that people think what this man is saying is true.
There is no reason I should be nice to an evil religion that hates me. The reason I’m spiteful and hateful towards Christianity is because Christianity is spiteful and hateful, and I will always be bigoted against Christianity as I will never change my mind on such evil.
When a priest etc looks at their cult and say “Yeah, it’s homophobic, and I don’t believe in it anymore because of how evil it is” THEN we can talk
You are a disgustingly nasty bigot in all that you write.
I don’t find Lumi Bast’s comments “spiteful” ‘hateful” “vindictive” ‘bigoted” “judgemental” “disgusting” “nasty”. Calm down people. He has passionate views. Angry, too. That is fine. Allowed. And quite justified in this debate. Our movement needs Ghandhis and Mandelas but we need warriors too. I actually agree with him, though I may use more temperate language.
Lumi describes a good man, Jeffrey John, as a liar. At the same time, she acknowledges that she has been hateful and spiteful. That is, I would hope reprehensible.
…I am sorry to have to tell you Mikey, that those who believe in sky fairies belittle themselves by their irrational belief in such rubbish. They also belittle non believers by trying to convince us that we are the fools and that their fantasies are legitimate…… That along with their pathological need to control other peoples lives and their need to deny others their rights by using their ancient stories passed down from people who didn’t know where the Sun went at night…….
Bless him for his words of encouragement. It is a tragedy that the Churches have presented so much opposition and specious arguments against gay marriage. As he rightly says the love of another is something wonderful and should be blessed by the churches.
There would be no tragedy if people didn’t believe in that cult. Homophobes are just following their religion correctly
Churches will never bless same-sex marriages as long as they follow their book of evil correctly
Thank you very much, Dr Jeffrey John, for what you have said. You along with other church leaders like Archbishop Tutu, and the Bishop of Salisbury, to name a few could and can make a significant difference to the lives of hundreds of thousands of hurting people in the LGT Community who are in dire need. Keep pushing for change, Sir, so that we have full rights permanently. I hope and pray that more men like you emerge to stand and be counted as champions. Heaven knows the Church of England needs to change and to not to sink to the level of the Roman Catholic Church.
I wonder if Cliff will come Out4Marriage.
Come on Cliff. You know you want to!
…..probably will so he can marry his Irish ex priest…..
Thank you Dr John on two accounts: 1) I have many friends who are LGBT and also Christian who will be uplifted by your comments and 2) it is important that there are courageous people like you inside the church to challenge homophobia from within.
Jeffrey John is NOT brave nor does he speak for God. He speaks to excuse himself, because he is “gay” If Jeffrey J. spoke for God he would endorse the teachings of the Bible which are very clear indeed – Sodomy is SIN Old Testament & the New. He is a disgrace and deserves to be sacked. You won’t of course post this as Pink News NEVER posts any view which doesn’t support their lifestyles.
Batmanz thinks that god is OutofDate.
Whatever happened to that video Boris Johnson said he was going to make for Out4Marriage?
Isn’t this the same man who pledged celibacy WITHIN his relationship? To please his critics. (And was still denied his promotion.)
He’s risen as far as he’s likely to rise, so why not talk. I’d see more “courage” in his words had they been spoken earlier, and by a sexually active man.
early enough for you? Permanent, faithful, stable will be republished in Aigust least you can do is buy a copy after defaming the man
Dr John’s work on this subject “Permanent Faithful Stable” was first published in 2000. Is that early enough for you? It will be republished in August of this year. You ought to buy a copy. It is the least you can do, having defamed the man.
Does this website NEVER post contrary opinions? If you are so sure that you are right what are you afraid of? Think about it!!!
Dr John does not describe himself as being celibate but as being abstinent. He does not believe that his past nature of his relationship was sinful. His refusal to repent behaviour prior to the church declaring that as a priest he should not indulge in it is one of the reasons that the church has discriminated against him in terms of preferment. there is no doubt that, if it was a matter of ability alone, he would be the next Archbishop of Canterbury
Great to see a man challenging the inhumanity expressed by some (particularly senior leaders) in the CoE standing firm and publically taking a stand to challenge homophobia in the church