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Ireland: Two years since civil partnerships law passage marked

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  1. Jesus moran 19 Jul 2012, 5:10pm

    No tsunami has came to destroy the planet and the sky still bright and blue!

    1. billywingartenson 10 Oct 2012, 8:24pm

      what we will evenutally destroy is the catholic church of hatee

      Not only has it raped hundreds of thousands of kids by its sex starved priests, but hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Goebbels, Eichmann, dr. Mengele, and himmler were catholics.

      If you wonder why some arabs hate the west, they had their own holocaust – tens of millions murdered in whats best described as the catholic crusades

  2. Robert in S. Kensington 19 Jul 2012, 5:21pm

    Amazing. The Republic of Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales, France, Australia all making noise to legislate. It’s inevitable whether the opposition likes it or not, it’s coming, so they’d better get used to it. Their days are numbered.

  3. It is such a pity that the previous government lacked the conviction to legislate for full equality and by the time CP’s were legalised they were already viewed as offensive and inadequate.

    If Ireland decides to hold an unnecessary marriage equality referendum to allow the public to determine whether or not LGBT people are worthy of equal civil rights, then Ireland should be roundly condemned.

    Equal civil rights for a law-abiding minority are not matters for a public vote.

    1. 73% of the irish support marriage equality. The church will make an ass of itself if it tries to have a referendum

      which should really ask if the pedoriests should be given to Comrade putin so he can put them in the gulag for us

  4. If the Irish government pretends that a referendum is needed to legislate for full equality, then it is admitting that between the years 1990 and 2011 Ireland had no President.

    The Irish constitution specifically refers to the president as ‘he’ throughout’ yet there was no referendum held to allow Mary McAleese or Mary Robinson to run for the Irish Presidency.

    Yet somehow despite the constitution declaring that all Irish citizens are equal (and nowhere does it state that a marriage can only be between 1 man and 1 woman) the government seems to be sticking to the tale that a referendum be held on equal civil rights for LGBT citizens.

    1. You keep making the same argument over and over again, don’t you? And despite being told numerous times by many different people here the rationale behind the legal imperative for a referendum (i.e. advice of the AG and the need for plebiscite to alter the Irish constitution – a pillar of Irish democracy), you persist with this repetitive nonsense. Assuming for a moment, and its a big assumption, you are not suffering foredoom a mental health issue, this makes you a fool. Therefore your opinion is that of a fool and should be ignored.

  5. It its good to see that religious countries like Ireland who you’d think as being old fashioned are becoming more lgbt friendly and respectful of LGBT rights :)

    1. Formerly religious

      Ireland is now post Catholic, I am led to believe

      If true (and the evidence does seem to support this) then I think that makes for a strong and dynamic nation

      I hope they have the confidence to demonstrate by introducing equal marriage (without a bogus referendum), and by other means, that Ireland are the humane, thoughtful, independently minded and honest nation that they aspire to be.

      2 years of CPs is progress to where Ireland once was – it can now prove it is not in hock to the RC church by taking the strong and ethical stance and bringing real equality into how relationships are conducted and recognised in Ireland – introduce equal marriage.

      1. I never realised that, i thought because most folks in the Republic Of Ireland are practicing Catholics. Never been to Ireland or known anyone raised in Ireland tell me about social attitudes there, so i don’t know much about what its like there

        1. Here is a quote from Archbishop Martin, who himself seems to accept a post Catholic Ireland:

          “Ireland is today undergoing a further phase in a veritable revolution of its religious culture. Many outside of Ireland still believe that Ireland is a bastion of traditional Catholicism. They are surprised to discover that there are parishes in Dublin where the presence at Sunday Mass is some 5% of the Catholic population and, in some cases, even below 2%. On any particular Sunday about 18% of the Catholic population in the Archdiocese of Dublin attends Mass. That is considerably lower than in any other part of Ireland ….

          … That the conformist Ireland of the Archbishop McQuaid era changed so rapidly and with few tears was read as an indication of a desire for change, but perhaps it was also an indication that the conformism was covering an emptiness and a faith built on a faulty structure to which people no longer really ascribed. The good-old-days of traditional mid-twentieth

          1. century Irish Catholicism may in reality not have so good and healthy after all …

            … The change that has taken place in Irish culture requires radical change in the life of the Church of such an extent that in the face of it even experts in change management would feel daunted …”

            Of course this is the Archbishops view, and I disagree on many points – but it demonstrates that the Irish RC church, themselves, accept that Ireland is post-Catholic.

            An opinion poll of Irish Catholics found that two-thirds of Irish Catholics don’t believe in some basic tenets of the RC faith such as transubstantiation, nor do they attend Mass weekly. The survey, published in The Irish Times with an error margin of 3 points, also found that just 38 percent believe Ireland today would be in worse shape without its former dominant church.

            Such views reflect rapid secularization and alienation with the church in Ireland, where church and state once were tightly intertwined.

            The church’s standing in

          2. society has been battered by a series of scandals involving the church’s concealment of child-abuse crimes from police and other Irish authorities. This has got to the point where diplomatic ties with the Vatican have diminished and senior politicians in Ireland have openly condemned the RC church and called for the resignation of the Cardinal of all Ireland.

          3. Some interesting facts, thanks for the analyzes.

      2. I think it’s slightly overstating it to say Ireland is “post-Catholic”. The recent Eucharistic Congress held in Dublin showed that Ireland’s Catholics still hold on to their faith. And when you say no-one goes to mass anymore, it’s still true that a third of people go weekly – that is far ahead of most European countries. I think the change is more in attitudes; Irish Catholics are now very pragmatic – “a la carte” Catholics if you will. A lot of Irish people are proud to call themselves Catholic without necessarily obeying every doctrine of the faith.

        1. In 2011, it was reported that weekly Mass attendance in Dublin was on average 18%, with it being lower among younger generations and in some areas less than 2%.

          Around 23% of the population of the entire Republic live in Dublin. It seems reasonable to take into account the trends within the capital city.

          It seems that Catholicism is on the wane in what were once urban strongholds. In an article in the Irish Times in May 2012, there were reports of regular Mass attendances of just 4% in Poleglass and that Holy Family in north Belfast just bringing 17% of the local Catholic population. Dublin Archdiocese – with its huge churches designed for another age, and which struggles financially with their up keep – pulls in a mere 14%. Beyond the big cities however people have remained more faithful, although there have been dramatic falls even in the more rural areas. In Rasharkin something like 60-65% still go. Yet back in the 1970s the average regular Mass attendance was in the

        2. region of 90%. One must bear in mind the substantially smaller population in the rural areas and thus even that 60-65% is numerically insignificant compared to the drastic numerical fall in Dublin and across the board in the entire Republic (and indeed island) of Ireland.

          Sunday observance was 43% in 2006 (just after the current Pope took office) and is now down to just 20%.

          There is an an overall drop of 50% between 2006 and 2012.

          1. the pope is obviously satan himself. He is, as nuts as he is, a Godsend to all

            He will destroy the church of A Hitlr, Goebbels, Eichmann, Dr. Mengele, and Himmler, and lots of the other bad bad guys of national socialims

            But beware of the 2nd holy Inquisition of torture and burnings. Why has the USA conservative republicans gone nuts?

            the repubs own the evangelical vote of the slavers and segregationists. The Vatican has joined with that evil also.

            Recently – the pope said he would join with the Islamics to fight gay marriage.

            need I say more.?

        3. Furthermore examples of views in Ireland such as that below are now commonplace, whereas once many in Ireland would have been scared to criticise (yet alone condemn) the Catholic church:

          “I was raised in a very devout Catholic family, but I would no regard myself as being a Catholic. There are many reasons which culminated in this decision. The outrageous widespread abuse of our children over many decades has haunted me as someone who is a loving parent. I believe that the Irish Catholic Church at the highest level deliberately protected these abusers over many decades and are still doing so to some extent.

          The shocking nature of this abuse gradually and systematically weakened my faith overall.
          I no longer practise the Catholic faith and it has honestly been a liberating experience. I am presently trying to regain and renew my faith and belief in God, but have no idea whether or not that will ever lead me back into another organised Religious framework again. I am not honestly

        4. sure whether it matters or not.

          The percentages attending Mass are no longer of any direct concern to me, but I think that many people hold a certain morality and human kindness which does not necessarily require manifestation through organised religious practise every Sunday. There are many hypocrites who attend Chapels or Churches each week simply through routine, tradition and a sense of obligation.

          I do not believe that reduced Church Attendance necessarily reflects a weakening of morality within society. As for The irish Catholic Church, they are deservedly paying a heavy price for their decades of lies, abuse and hypocrisy.”

  6. The Equal Marriage movement has really taken off recently, to my surprise, I must admit!

    It’s good that gay equality is seen to be so important, and a basic human right these days.

    1. Why to your surprise, BennieM?

      1. Pleasantly surprised, I should say!

        I just think it’s taken off in a relatively short period of time, and some of the people speaking out in favour of it, like President Obama (in an election year too!) has really surprised me!

        Only last year, the Scottish Government, for example, said that they didn’t see it as a priorty. They only changed their view before the Scottish Parliament election when they promised the consultation.

        Even Scottish Labour only promised a consultation last year, rather than legislation, but they now seem to be in strong support with around 70-odd% of their MSPs decalared in favour.

        And the parties at Westminster weren’t really talking about it for long before the 2010 election, with the exception of the Lib Dems. How many Labour MPs in government didn’t see the need for it but are now in favour, for example?

        It’s happened really quickly, I think, and I’m glad but still surprised!

        1. It is gathering speed and support – and thats a marvellous thing! ;-)

          1. Guess were all looking forward to when Scottish governenment “finally” make there intentions clear, then we can put the long wait behind us. I to was also pleased to hear that President Obama of the USA supported Marriage Equality, i allways thought he did, and i even supported him over Hillary in the 08 primaries.

          2. I think it will definitely happen in Scotland, despite the poor handling of it by the SG.

            I supported Hillary over Obama and I was really disappointed when she pulled out of the race. I would still like to see her get a chance, but by 2016 she’ll be 68 or something like that and I feel she might not run. Age didn’t stop Reagan, but I think it would go against Hillary.

          3. I was kind of hoping her successor in the senate Kirsten Gillibrand would run. She helped run the campaign to repeal Dont Ask Dont Tell and she is an big supporter of Marriage equality. But if Hillary ran in 2016, it would be cool :D

  7. An unmentioned factor in falling church attendance is the improvement in education in recent years – not just in schools, but through television, internet and other media. The myths and superstitions of organised religious groups are more unlikely to be accepted by an open and educated mind. The abuse scandals have served to speed up people’s disbelief.

    Catholicism is thriving in the former communist countries of eastern Europe, evidenced by the strong faith of those people who have come to Ireland from there. But that will be a short-lived trend.

    Children in Catholic primary schools [and their parents] are intimidated into ‘following the herd’ in 1st communion and confirmation and, unfortunately, many PS teachers collaborate with this, for fear of their job prospects.

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