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France: Concern as senate approves protections for ‘sexual’ not ‘gender’ identity

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  1. That There Other David 19 Jul 2012, 1:25pm

    On face value this comes across as a lack of understanding on the part of the Senate rather than anything malicious. It’s right that the ANT make a noise about it though. It’s extremely important that they get this right.

    1. agree with you. To me its also just a variant of how som people are gay> My eye doc is a trans woman.

  2. Cardinal Capone 19 Jul 2012, 4:00pm

    Couldn’t gender identity also be considered as a part of “appearance or custom”, or is there case law against this? It sounds like a broad category that might cover it anyway.

    1. No, that would open the door for it to be ignored totally. “Gender identity” is a very specific, correct term to use and it leaves no wiggle room for bigots.

      1. “Gender Identity” is deliberately chosen to be unspecific and widely open to interpretation, as is “transgender”. This is a political ploy that the French Senate have wisely curtailed. “Appearance or custom” is in the law as a ground for protection; it won’t be “ignored”.

        Readers need to remember that the law is in French, in which the meaning of “gender” is different, and into which the words “sex” and “gender” are usually translated as “sexe”.

        1. This is no longer the case, with genre and identité de genre increasingly used in French, certainly among groups of people who have an interest in the area. I agree using identité sexuelle is too unclear, as it could be taken as being about sexual orientation, whereas gender/genre relates to one’s sense of masculinity or femininity or of identification as a man or woman (or androgyne), and the ways in which one expresses it. It would be good if France could get with the modern world and promote the concept of gender identity and expression as a ground for discrimination – it is already called for under EU best practice guidelines. I saw some years back a French government language authority site saying genre in this sense was no needed as French has the perfectly useful word “sexe”, but in my opinion this was just an outdated view, like that of various right-wing politicians who got upset about the inclusion of the discussion of “la théorie des genres” in a school textbook recently.

  3. Another Hannah 19 Jul 2012, 11:25pm

    My own eperience of socialists is that for some reason they are always very willing to ignore the rights of trans people and forget commitments given. Avoid FRance I’m afraid!

  4. With all due respect to the trans community change comes incrememtally. Just as we started out winning the right to civil partnerships, before we could lobby for gay marriage and full legal equality, the same strategy may have to be accepted for trans people fro full acceptance. It will follow logically, it just takes time and media exposure for trans isues to be fully understood by the public.

    1. We in the trans community are tired of that BS argument. A very similar argument used by many gay leaders here in the states is: After we get ours we’ll come back for you. Only they don’t. For example they passed anti-discrimination legislation for gays/lesbians in New York back in 2000. They declined to include gender identity, but the LGB leaders said “we’ll come back for you”. A dozen years later and NOTHING has been done.

      Also this argument seems to also infer that trans people are “new”. People have been medically transitioning for more than 60 years. In addition we were among the leaders at Stonewall and yet we are told we have to wait.

      We are tired of waiting!!!

      1. I’m all for what you want _ i have a number of trans friends in th4e gay rights movement.

        Sorry its going to take time. I wish we could just ship the bigots to the Gulag but that isnt happening.

        Wonder what the religious BSrs will say since trans isnt in the bible

        Dont worry – its been retranlated time and again, re -written time and again. There will be a new version that demonizes trans people. Written in the same brown smellie ink that is used re gays

    2. That There Other David 20 Jul 2012, 9:54am

      This attitude actually angers me.

      I for one refuse to throw anyone under the bus in order to get my rights recognised sooner. Without the noise from the larger numbers of gay men and lesbians the politicians could pretend to forget about the trans community entirely. It’s up to us to support each other, and demand that we ALL receive equality together. Nothing else is acceptable.

      LGBT is a four letter acronym. Nobody gets pushed aside here. Nobody.

    3. This is about the wording of a law, not speed of acceptance.

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