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Scotland: Anti-gay marriage group’s ‘honest’ poll criticised

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  1. COMRES poll commissioned by Catholic Voice.

    Go figure………

  2. Even if it were an honest poll, then there are often rogue skew polls that deviate from the general consensus on any topic. The general consensus of most honest polls is that the majority of Scottish people favour equal marriage.

    However, this poll appears to be more than a rogue poll – it appears dishonest, manipulative and deceptive in the way it has been carried out.

    Desperate times (recognition that they are the losing side) will force bigots into desparate measure (manipulative polling or declarations of war on LGBT people and the Scottish government perhaps).

  3. These people wouldn’t know honesty if it whacked them over the head with a Bible.

  4. So Scotland For Marriage and ComRes between them at no point thought it would be a good idea to take on board the criticisms of the previous UK poll and instead simply asked the exact same question then want to claim the exact same answer thus inviting the exact same criticisms, You couldn’t make it up could you?

  5. It seems the poll is very obviously trying to deceive. This is going to bite these people in the a*rse.

  6. Lying for the baby Jesus!

    Hallelujah!

  7. Egbert Naebacon 10 Jul 2012, 7:52pm

    Strugeling to equate reforendum with unfair or un Scotish . What`s the differance between that roposition and indeppendance or EU membership . Let`s stop the surmising ,take a vote and see where we all stand on the matter .

  8. Myles MacLean 10 Jul 2012, 8:53pm

    Let the religious fools get worked up over this.It will only help our side in the end.

  9. Wasn’t the anti-equal marriage side complaining about the recent Equality Network/Mori poll being misleading? Bloody hypocrites. The sheer gall of these people is quite astounding.

  10. For standard polling there’s Mori…

    For everything else, there’s comres

  11. Danegrmouse 10 Jul 2012, 10:04pm

    it all depends on the question, what result. Any poll can be skewed in the direction the pollsters want by asking the right question. So unless you have a series of polls asking similar but differrent questions that show the same result, its a waste of time.

  12. Looks like they are getting increasingly desparate- because they know whats coming next week? Last ditch attempt to thwart the wishes of everyone else…?l

    1. Gemma Gillon 11 Jul 2012, 3:47am

      Think your in for the big surprise, this is the bit were the scots government stab the LGBT community in the back.

      1. I’m usually very critical of the SNP on gay rights, but on this, I don’t see how they back down without losing a lot of credibility as a responsible party of government. The SNP party position was to hold a consultation on it, which was a step in the right direction even though I don’t think they have an official party position in support or against it (as their MSPs have a free vote) but both Salmond & Sturgeon support equal marriage, not to mention over half of SNP MSPs so far. It would be very difficult for them to back down on an issue they support.

      2. Gemma

        You can be as cynical as you like but the wagon is rolling on the issue of equal marriage – globally.

        The Scottish government know that if they decide to not introduce legislation to enable marriage of same sex couples then all they will be doing is delaying the inevitable. It will happen either now or at some point in the relatively near future. The Scottish Government also know if they fail to introduce equal marriage legislation that they will earn a legacy of being the party that claimed to support equality for LGBT people and then failed to deliver, the party that rejected the will of the Scottish people, the party that said civil rights do not matter if you are LGBT, the party who allowed themselves to be bullied by the RC church, the party who said hatred is more important that equality.

        I do not see that the Scottish Government has any reasonable alternative but to bring forward legislation. Most Scottish people support it, including the majority of Scottish

        1. Christians, Most MSPs support it and it is the right thing to do as well as the responsibility of government (to ensure equality in civil rights).

          Scotland will not allow itself to be seen as a backward thinking country globally when many other nations have, are in the process of or will introduce shortly similar legislation.

          Its going to happen – almost certainly now. If not, then the SNP only have themselves to blame for the backlash they will receive from LGBT people and their supporters. They have no idea of the damage they will do themselves should they do the wrong thing. However, I do not expect or believe that will happen.

          1. Oh bless, someone disagrees with me and thumbed me down but hasn’t got the willingness to defend their opinion by citing an argument.

            The facts are the Scottish government have far more to lose by failing to introduce equal marriage than gain by denying it. They will also gain (and Scotland gain) by successful introduction of civil rights equality.

          2. You’re absolutely right, Stu, about the SNP having more to lose by backing down on this. The suggestion that they’ll lose a substantial numbers of votes in the independence referendum by going ahead with marriage equality just doesn’t make any sense to me. However, if they did back down then it would make them look weak by giving in to bigots and religious threats on a policy they support and has support of the opposition parties (except Tories) and most importantly, a majority of the public.

  13. That There Other David 10 Jul 2012, 10:51pm

    From the wording on the poll it looks like a majority Scots want to ban divorce.

    Come on Holyrood, get to it!! The people have spoken, after all.

    Or put it another way, what a load of old rubbish.

  14. ComRes are going to be remembered as the lackeys and foot soldiers of the oppressive and hateful. Take their money, be tarred with their brush.

  15. There’s a video of yesterday’s rally for LGBT marriages at the Scottish Parliament on YT. Check it out and share: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6UcyBMqhRI&feature=youtu.be

  16. Robert in S. Kensington 11 Jul 2012, 12:14am

    How about a referendum to ban catholicism?

  17. Cardinal Capone 11 Jul 2012, 12:33am

    It doesn’t look like there are actually many Scots in “Scotland for Marriage”.

  18. Bisexual woman in Edinburgh 11 Jul 2012, 12:44am

    I do sometimes wonder why the polls bring up such drastically different numbers. Is it all down to dodgy polling methods, or are that many members of the public just that likely to change their answer depending on how the question is phrased (which doesn’t speak well for their intelligence and how well they’ve thought through the issue)?

    Meanwhile, I note that the current claim from this delightful poll is that 55% of Scots oppose same-sex marriage (for a very skewed value of “oppose same-sex marriage, mind you), but that 70% of Scots gave the same answer in February. If 15% of Scots have changed sides in favour of equal marriage in just five months, I don’t think that’s a victory for the homophobic Catholic brigade, somehow! They should be hushing this poll up, not advertising it!

    Ah, it’s all spin, isn’t it.

  19. Gemma Gillon 11 Jul 2012, 3:40am

    Who the HELL are the “Equality Network” to say that a referendum on the issue would be “Unfair” ? We all know it would be “Unscottish” as us scots have a very long history of subverting the peoples by diluting democratic exspression. Christ our procurator fisicals can cancel out our rights to a trial by jury ! However to play on poverty and call a direct democratic vote on ANY issue “unfair” is to be a tyrannical ass running scared of public scrutiny. I’m gay but I am not a mug, if equal marriage is to be forced through government by lobbies they can stick it were the sun don’t shine !

    1. Tim Hopkins 11 Jul 2012, 4:55am

      Gemma, a referendum would be unScottish because we don’t use referenda except on major constitutional issues. It would be unfair because the reason the Catholic Church wants one is that they hope they could do what they do in the US. That is, to throw £100,000s into media advertising distorting the truth and campaigning for a no vote. We could not hope to match even one tenth of their expenditure. One would hope that Scots would vote yes anyway, but the truth is that relentless and overwhelming publicity does have an effect.

      But I think that most Scots don’t want Scottish politics turned into US style politics where what matters is who raises the most campaign funds. And where a rich minority who disagree with any decision of parliament can call a referendum and throw millions at it. We elect our MSPs to look at the evidence and decide.

      The reason Scotland for Marriage are proposing this is that they know they have lost the arguiment on the evidence

      1. Exactly right, Tim. The last thing we need is a repeat of Section 28 (Clause 2a in Scotland). Thankfully, the government at the time ignored that “referendum” and I’m certain the current government would do likewise given the support for equal marriage in Scotland. I know I’ve been critical of the SNP on gay rights but on this, I now think it inconceivable that they won’t go ahead with it.

    2. Gemma, the government, and Scottish Parliament for that matter, aren’t being forced into supporting equal marriage by anyone. All major parties had manifesto commitments on equal marriage (except for thd Conservatives) and a majority of MSPs support it, not to mention a majority of the public (according to 3 polls/surveys). The only people trying to force the government to do something it doesn’t want to are the anti-marriage lot.

    3. Who the hell are you to condemn an entire nation because of your perceptions, Gemma?

      In my view (as an Englishman) you comments about the Scottish is bordering on racist.

    4. Dave North 11 Jul 2012, 9:32am

      Minority rights should never be decided by majority vote.

      Read your history.

  20. Hatchetman 11 Jul 2012, 4:47am

    Polls are a tool used by conservative media attempting to dictate public opinion,divert attention and divide citizens!

  21. More liers and lies from the sinking Roman Catholic ship. Drowning bigots clutching at straws etc. Hate begets hate.

  22. GingerlyColors 11 Jul 2012, 7:02am

    Opinion polls are always skewed in favour of the people who commission them.

    1. Equality Network 11 Jul 2012, 7:11am

      Which is why arguably the most authoritative survey on this is the Scottish Social Attitudes Survey, a regular academic study last commissioned by the Scottish Govt in 2010 (at a time when the Scottish Govt was opposing equal marriage by the way). It found that 61% agreed with “gay or lesbian couples should have the right to marry one another if they want to” and only 19% disagreed. 54% of Catholics agreed, and 21% disagreed.

    2. Paul, Essex 11 Jul 2012, 8:41am

      to be fair, most polling companies work to very high standards and that means being very clear with potential clients on what questions they can and cannot ask. This is a poorly worded survey, which is why the only company willing to take the money for it is a virtual unknown like ComRes.

  23. The Scotsman is reporting this story as if this poll is accurate, without pointing out the obvious flaws in the poll, like PN have done. The Scotsman story also suggests the recent Stonewall survey was unfair. I know which poll I’d rather believe!

    http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/same-sex-marriage-half-of-scots-say-referendum-should-be-held-on-gay-marriage-finds-poll-1-2403102

    1. Tim Hopkins 11 Jul 2012, 9:04am

      Interesting though the ‘poll’ is not reported in the print edition of the Scotsman, or in the Herald, or the Record. Those papers obviously realise how little this ‘poll’ is worth!

      1. It is covered in the Metro, but only a small article at the top of a page. Few of the letters/comments are on LGBT matters, including one from me :)

        1. Tim Hopkins 11 Jul 2012, 9:30am

          Must get a copy! There’s letters in the Herald too.

    2. Dave North 11 Jul 2012, 9:34am

      I see no comments section is available…………………………

  24. Scotland: Anti-gay marriage group’s ‘dishonest’ poll criticised

    Because we now know that whatever this group of homophobes claim is sure to be the opposite of the reality.

    Deceit by omission is the same as lying, while lying itself comes just easily to this group, pretending it is not opposing equal civil rights for gay people, the Catholic Voices poll is deceitful and totally dishonest.

  25. Paul, Essex 11 Jul 2012, 8:38am

    As much as Scotland for Marriage/Catholic Voice say it shows a majority against same sex marriage, it could also be argued the poll shows a majority against divorce (a majority saying marriage should be a ‘life long’ commitment). That’s the problem with poorly worded opinion polls – you can claim they show just about anything.

  26. Just a reminder about how biased Comres are on the issue of equal marriage, here are extracts from an article about an opinion poll they conducted for the C4M earlier this year:

    “The Coalition for Marriage was launched last week. And as many groups do to try and drum up some publicity announce themselves to the world, they commissioned an opinion poll of public attitudes to equal marriage.

    Which is fair enough. But then, it appears, a thought struck them. The UK is, by and large, a tolerant nation, with the vast majority now accepting of gay and lesbian relationships being respected and recognised. So… how to pose an opinion poll question that could produce the result they wanted?

    Thankfully, ComRes (a member of the British Polling Council) did them proud.

    It is a brief masterclass in asking the right questions to produce the results you want.

    First, the neutral question that comforts the respondent that the views they hold are eminently reasonable: ‘Please tell me the extent

    1. to which you agree or disagree with [this] statement about the definition of marriage… Since gay and lesbian couples already have the same rights as married couples available to them under civil partnership, they should not be allowed to redefine marriage for everyone else.’

      It’s a question which would have been only marginally less subtle if paraphrased as ‘Don’t you think those gays are getting a bit above themselves, eh?’

      Given the brazen slant of the question, I was actually quite surprised to see that only 51% agreed with the statement, with 34% disagreeing.

      I think the wording of this poll question tells us everything we need to know about the credibility of the Coalition for Marriage — and, perhaps more importantly, everything we need to know about the confidence they have in their own case that they should pray in aid such dubious tactics.

      As Lib Dem equalities minister Lynne Featherstone noted:

      ‘Marriage is a right of passage for couples who want to show they are

    2. in a committed relationship, for people who want to show they have found love and wish to remain together until death do them part. Why should we deny it to people who happen to be gay or lesbian who wish to show that commitment and share it with their family, friends and everybody else? We should be proud of couples who love each other and a society that recognises their love as equal.'”

      The first question basically tells us nothing, as one can support gay marraige and still give either answer. However it is possible to interepret the answers differently, and one can’t help but suspect a press release from the “coalition” may come.

      – The second question assumes that gay marriage will change the definition of marriage “for the rest of us” which in and of itself is a ludicrous assumption. Also it starts with a loaded statement that aids one side of the argument.

      The same is true with this latest poll by Comres in Scotland. Comres refuse to comment on the views of those conducting

    3. the poll or of Comres as an organisation or on how the questions were formulated on behalf of their clients. In other words, they will not allow examination of the deserved concerns about bias, making the perception of bias grow, fester and develop and demonstrating that Comres and their clients have something to hide.

      In the article extract above, the question is biased because it includes a short argument against Gay marriage built into it! It also isn’t asking the question they will present it as asking (whether you support gay marriage); for example I support gay marriage but I’d almost answer yes to that question (the second, the first I’d probably answer no to); I don’t think either part of the statement are true, homosexuals don’t have the same rights currently and aren’t trying to redefine marriage for everyone just for themselves (anyone else can still get married just as before), but if they did and they were then I would answer yes. As such it’s playing on the fact that

    4. people don’t have all the facts. There is at least significant debate as to whether the statements the question gives as a premise are true, but not everyone reading the question will know this, which will bias the answers given.

      So, How can we define an unbaised question, we can’t formally define it (in fact the electoral commision spends ages working out the least biased question to ask when we have referendums), but for a start the question shouldn’t state as fact something which would be widely disputed, or that whilst true represents only one side of the argument. Ideally it should avoid stating facts as much as possible, so a question like; “Do you support the current governments proposals to legalise Homosexaul Marriage; Yes, No, Don’t Know.” The only facts in that are that the government has proposals to legalise Homosexual marriage, something fairly indisputable.

      I think the question above is biased, I would not trust results that came from a survey that asked;
      “Since the

    5. state currently discriminates against homosexuals by not allowing them to marry as heterosexual couples can, should legislation be passed to rectify this inequality?”
      I think that’s a fairly good description of the current situation, but it’s undoubtedly just as biased a question as the one above, because it presents an argument for one side. It also states as fact that the current situation is discriminatory and unequal, something I believe but others might not (for the reasons listed in the question they did ask, regarding Civil Ceremonies).

      However, even more concerning is another Comres poll; the above poll isn’t the most biased ever, mainly because this one is;
      http://www.comres.co.uk/poll/556/premier-media-gay-marriage-poll.htm
      Even before the fact that’s it’s often quoted without mentioning that it’s only of Church Going Christians, that it’s conducted by voluntary online polling (so only people with strong feelings answer, and the position in the church varies from don’t

    6. care to opposed), it then weights Anglican’s too lightly (or so I’m told, I must admit I don’t know on this one), and more importantly, before asking Q3 on voting intention, slips in Q2, a list of arguments against gay marriage.
      Interestingly the second question (that’s never quoted because it was only put in to bias the third question) does show that 93% of respondants have no idea what they are talking about, saying they are concerned about the current legislation because; “ministers will have to conduct gay marriages against their conscience” which simply isn’t the proposal the Tories have. I also think that reason is possibly the only valid one against gay marriage (were it true) and surely will bias peoples responses purely because they don’t know what policy they are expressing approval or disaproval for (not that this is a sign of bias, just a sign of people need to research more before answering questions).

      Comres are entirely discredited when it comes to polls on equal

    7. marriage – and there is no reason to believe this one is any better. The questions appear equally as loaded and leading and rely on manipulating and deceiving those answering the questions.

  27. Daft me thought the decision was going to be announced yesterday.

    1. Guess well have to wait again for the SG to make there announcment wonder when it is going to be ?

      1. I think the 10 July was intially thought to be the date of the Cabinet meeting where they’d discusd it – although I’m not sure if the SG themselves specifically said so. As far as I’m aware, the SG themselves have said they’ll discuss it at a Cabinet meeting on 17 July and announce the results/analysis of the consultation on that date or soon afterwards, but definitely in July. Hopefully that also means their decision too. I think that’s correct, but I’m not 100% sure!

        1. Tim Hopkins 11 Jul 2012, 11:58am

          That is exactly what the SG have most recently said!

          1. I’ve got it exactly right? That makes a nice change! I’m usually on the right tracks with this kind of thing, but not always spot on! Thanks, Tim!

          2. Ok, thanks for info. Only 6 days to go then. :D

  28. ‘Do you think fish and chips should continue to be defined as food?’
    ‘Is rain weather?’
    ‘Must little boys be defined as children?’
    ‘Do you consider cats to be carnivorous mammals?’
    An evangelical Christian once told me that he believed in marriage. I replied that I did too; and, in fact, had seen them everywhere.
    Sometimes you are not being told all that you think you are being told – and bad opinion surveys exemplify it.

  29. hayden I cant belive someone on this website, wrote praise JEHOVAH. you need to look up the meaning halleujah,but please dont tell any muslims when they use the word, it might upset them.

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