Hopefully it will be marriage equality in Ireland very soon.
Post Catholic Ireland is moving in this direction!
It’s great to see the rate of progress happening in the South, especially when you think what the position was in the country just two decades ago. Congratulations to each and every one of those 734 couples.
I’m surprised that for a big country, the population is only slightly more than Wales.
Sadly, thanks to the neglect of our forefathers here in Great Britain most of the Irish were forced to leave for the Americas during the late 19th Century. For a lot of them it was either that or starve.
“neglect” doesn’t quite cover it
Shame on you, Greek and Italian Republics! Shame on you!
the population is only 4 million…its debts are billions since it joined the euro….
And this explains why Britain’s economy is booming at the present time, does it?
I think you’ll find that it was the gangster banks who are mainly responsible for the recession in both Britain and Ireland
it wasnt just the banks….its the greed of society that done it…..people buying property after property to make a fast buck…..mans own greed has created all the problems in the world…..plus im an Irish gay guy…
Although the banks deliberately fed this greed, had greed themselves as a motive (either as individual bankers or as organisations) and manipulated, lied and acted criminally to gain. The result of their actions was to destabilise national economies and the global economy.
Which is something Ireland needs to renegotiate now that Spain has received a “free” bailout. With the change in leadership in Paris they should find their situation would improve, but first they need to ask.
4million, thats brillant , not grotesquely overcrowded like here.
Minister for Education, Ruairi Quinn, who is a very liberal Labour Party politician has said a referendum will be needed for full same-sex marriage in Ireland. It’s highly unlikely legislation alone will suffice.
This is not true.
That was the OPINION of the Attorney General of the last FF/Green coalition. That coalition had absolutely no intention of legislating for full equality, hence they used the AG’s opinion to claim that a referendum was needed.
Other legal experts believe that legislation is sufficient.
The present government needs to legislate for civil marriage equality. The bigots will appeal to the Supreme Court whom I suspect would be very reluctant to overturn equality legislation considering the EU wide momentum on civil marriage equality.
The Irish constitutions references to a ‘husband and wife’ should be regarded in the same manner as its references to the Irish President as a ‘he’ throughout. It is a document written in the 1930′s and cannot be interpreted 100% literally in 2012 (otherwise there would have needed to be a referendum to allow Mary Robinson to run for the Irish Presidency in 1990).
Well all I’m saying is a senior government minister doesn’t seem to agree with you. And he’s a pro-equality liberal who I doubt really wants a referendum.
If Ireland decides to take the disgusting route of having a referendum about the civil rights of a law-abiding minority group then it will be spitting in the face of the LGBT population.
The Irish constitution claims that all citizens are equal. That means all citizens should have equal civil rights.
Civil marriage is a civil right denied to the Irish LGBT population simply because they are gay.
It is the Supreme Court’s job to decide on the constitutionality of legislation.
It is NOT the public’s job to vote on the civil rights of a law-abiding minority (regardless of what those lunatic American christian churches – who will richly fund a horrific advertising campaign which will grotesquely demonise the LGBT community – think).
The Irish constitution’s love for referenda is generally admirable, but not if it means the denial of a civil right enjoyed by the heterosexual population.
“The Irish constitution’s love for referenda is generally admirable,”
LOL! This is even funnier… you mean Article 46 which requires a referendum for and amendment to Bunreacht na hÉireann? What, you though we just “Love” freferendums?!?
A46.2 – “Every proposal for an amendment of this Constitution shall be initiated in Dáil Éireann as a Bill, and shall upon having been passed or deemed to have been passed by both Houses of the Oireachtas, be submitted by Referendum to the decision of the people in accordance with the law for the time being in force relating to the Referendum.”
I suggest you start learning before you open your mouth next time, becuase at present you sound utterly ridiculous and stupid.
I’m afraid Tom, below, is right. The need for a referendum is considered a legal imperative in order to adhere to the Constitution. It’s not some moral judgement-call that the government toys with.
Totally agree Blazer. David has a point that civil liberties should not be up to plebiscite, but in the context of the Irish Constitution, a referendum is the advice of the Attorney General, so that’s what the government will follow – and rightly so. Anyway, it removes all chance for challenge if its enshrined into the constitution, so the move is a good one in the long term.
“That was the OPINION of the Attorney General of the last FF/Green coalition. ”
Opinion? LOL! The AG’s “Opinion” is taken as the highest legal advise the govern mane can get. What’s the alternative, listen to you demanding the same thing despite the evidence to the contrary simply becuase you want it to be true?
Yes it was the last AG’s opinion.
There are equally strong legal arguements which suggest the matter can be determined by legislation alone.
(Can you please explain to me why there was no referendum to allow Mary Robinson run for Irish Presidency in 1990 when the constitution specifically refers to the president as ‘he’ throughout?)
The idea that there needs to be a referendum on a minority’s civil rights is horrific, and if it happens it will show thwe utter contempt in which the Irish political establishment regards the LGBT population
I left Ireland in 1986 after my friend took his own life. At the time, homosexuality was a criminal offence, and to be queer was to suffer the most terrible abuses at the hands of bullies.
Years on, and thanks in no small part to the enormous achievements of Sentator David Norris – I went to hear him in University College Cork in 1985 when he debated about queer rights. I remember his openening statement – ‘on the train down from Dublin, people kept walking past me to see what a real homosexual looked like…’
We should never forget the work, the tireless work that David and his friends did for Ireland.
To my shame, I fled – jumped the sinking ship.
I’m so glad that others in Ireland can enjoy a freedom that we once dreamed off.
To my friend, Solas, – Rest easy now, you were ahead of your time.
Gay rights have been achieved with love and compassion. Rest of the world, particularly Cardinal O Brien, take note.
Only haters fight wars. Lovers love.
The political context around gay marriage in Ireland, as elsewhere, has developed more rapidly than might have been expected in 2010. When the first civil partnership ceremonies were held in each county in the spring of 2011, they featured on the front pages of local newspapers. As predicted, however, the novelty value wore off and coverage was relegated to the photo sections.
Hotels, photographers and cake makers have tweaked their wedding fair presentations and advertising to pitch for civil partnership business.
In recent months both David Cameron and Barack Obama have spoken of how their personal positions have evolved and they are now prepared to publicly support the introduction of gay marriage. As a result, legal change will now occur more rapidly in those countries.
In Ireland, however, the prospects for gay marriage are complicated and inevitably delayed by constitutional considerations. The bottom line is that a referendum is necessary, and any such referendum will have to
be fought within the constraints of the McKenna and Coughlan judgments.
It does not help the cause of gay rights for this issue to become the subject of inter-party competition or a measure of assertiveness between the Coalition partners. Eamon Gilmore has a genuine commitment on the issue, and a track record in advocating the “civil partnership as stepping stone” strategy, but the manner of his intervention into the debate this week is curious.
One suspects it owes as much to a perceived need to outflank gay rights advocates in Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil who have been more active of late or, alternatively, to emphasise the distance between Labour and the official Fine Gael view.
For the deputy leader of Government to speak outside his departmental remit is permitted, especially when he is a party leader, but it is unusual.
The fact that Gilmore framed his call for the introduction of gay marriage within a photocall with one gay rights organisation, and a single-issue one at that,
is also curious.
One also wonders if the cause of gay marriage is advanced by seeking to flush out the Taoiseach on the issue when there is no immediate prospect of a referendum. It was inevitable that once the Tánaiste offered a public view the Taoiseach would come under pressure to state or restate his position.
On a number of occasions, and most recently during the last general election campaign, Enda Kenny publicly declined to support the introduction of gay marriage.
If the constitutional change necessary to enable gay marriage is to be introduced during Kenny’s premiership, it will have to be with his support and on foot of his political leadership.
Pursuing him on the topic as Taoiseach now may generate colourful headlines but it could be counterproductive. Given his past utterances and the strength of feeling on the issue in his party and the country, Kenny may need wriggle room for an Obama or Cameron-like evolution in political view.
I have long been of the view that
this Government’s proposed constitutional convention is a sham. It will be the purgatory into which a selection of constitutional issues will be parked before being further delayed or diverted when they return to the parliamentary process. It is no coincidence that gay marriage is among those issues.
The surrounding debate may provide some opportunity for the issue to be aired, but the prospects and timing for constitutional change on gay marriage will be shaped on the ground, not in the constitutional convention.
Civil partnership will generate more and more acceptance and make the enduring discrimination all the more apparent. In time gay marriage will happen. This is a politically complex challenge. Its progress needs to be handled with care.
Based on an article for the Irish Times by journalist and barrister Noel Whelan