And in other news, water is wet.
Now imagine all the harm this odious man and his vile and mendacious organisation has done to the young and the vulnerable who were forced to endure its practices.
Sue the shirt off his back. Crush the whole vile thing to the ground and take every ill-gotten penny back to pay for those who have been injured.
Oh, and Mr Chambers? A so-called “expert” should know that sexuality is not a binary, it is a spectrum, and you, you ridiculous man, are bloody bisexual.
Calm down Valksy, and please show me a quote where Mr Chambers claims that sexuality is binary and not a spectrum.
Please calm down Valksy, and show me a quote where Mr Chambers claims that sexuality is a binary and not a spectrum.
From what I understand about evangelicals confronted with the fact that ex-gay doesn’t work, they are now promoting behavior change rather than basic orientation change to heterosexuality. One Christian shrink told me that she knew of many happily married gays (opposite sex marriages that is). I suspect she was lying though. In other words, they don’t care if you have same sex attractions so long as you don’t act on them… they want us to live as if straight. In other words, the new tactic is to force us back into the closet with a mutant form of ex-gay therapay
Whilst some of the changes in Exodus are welcome – eg some of their leaders condemning homophobia even in Uganda and their abandonment of reparitive therapy – what has replaced it is not necessarily humane.
They now seem to not endorse “changing orientation” but do endorse the psychological damage which can be caused by living a lie.
Which is basically how they functioned all along – by making people suppress their orientation. Now they’re just being more honest about it as they’ve realised that no-one falls for the rubbish about changing your orientation. Note how many fundie trolls here have picked up that message too. It’s all about not acting on your sexuality now.
I still can’t understand WHY they have such a prurient interest in what other people do in bed though… It speaks volumes about their OWN insecurities, I think.
It speaks volumes about their OWN insecurities, I think.
Absolutely, Iris – they have the zeal of the convert, having bought into the idea that the discontent of their lives could be replaced by sacrificing their feelings for conformity to the heterosexual-nuclear-family norm. But much as they love the idea of sacrifice, perhaps it’s harder in the end than they thought.
and also those bought up in strict Xian families, the brainwashed children, try to live up to the norms and standards they were inculcated with. I don’t think they have a prurient attitude about sex – but they do have a puritanical set of norms that they have chosen to live by, and that they think others should also live by.
When you genuinely believe that your morality has an objective and absolute basis, you can’t go along with a live and let live attitude regarding others
“I still can’t understand WHY they have such a prurient interest in what other people do in bed though…”
You’ve been saying that all along, Iris, and I certainly agree with you.
Empty cans make the most noise, innit.
Innit indeed, eh? ;) Yes, I’ve said it many times because I find it hard to understand what would make supposedly straight people muse at length over what LGBT people may or may not do in bed. I don’t spend my life imagining what straight people do! Seriously – get over it, people!
Nor do I think straight people should be ‘corrected’ simply because they’re not like I am. Half of these fundies just show a lack of empathy, and struggle to see anything outside their own experience. Such simplistic thinking – “They’re not the same as me so they must be wrong.”
Of course Gay can’t be cured; but, maybe idiocy can?
No, that can’t either – you can treat it, but it never completely goes away, much like Herpes.
… and how much damage has this group done over many decades and how many lives ruined! I think a public apology at least is in order.
I love how homosexuality has been declared normal by the American Psychiatric Association but people still act like we live in the dark ages. Like Valksy said, sexuality is on a spectrum, and “right” and “wrong” is not included on the continuum!
They wouldn’t be the first ex gay ministry to come to this conclusion. Courage, an Anglican ex gay ministry realised this a decade back and now vigorously campaigns for gay acceptance in the church: http://www.courage.org.uk/default.asp
I’ll dispute that it can’t be cured but Chambers is claiming to have been cured but saying he couldn’t be?
The actual article in The Atlantic is interesting:
“Christians who consider themselves “ex-gays” have become a source of ridicule in popular culture. Although the evangelical leader Ted Haggard isn’t affiliated with Exodus, it didn’t help the cause when he was outed by a male prostitute he’d been frequenting for years — and then deemed by his pastors, after just three weeks of therapy, to be “completely heterosexual.” For many, though, these stories represent something deadly serious. The American Psychological Association warns that homosexuality is not a disorder, and that trying to “cure” it can lead to “intimacy avoidance, sexual dysfunction, depression, and suicidality.”
Founding Exodus leader Michael Bussee says he witnessed those harrowing outcomes firsthand. Bussee, who left the group in 1979 and now lives an openly gay life, recalls watching his Exodus
clients descend into despair, mutilating their own bodies or driving their cars into trees. “By calling ourselves ex-gay,” Bussee says now, “we were lying to ourselves and hurting people.”"
“Bussee has cautious praise for Chambers. “Alan himself is personally more progressive than any Exodus leader has ever been,” he says. Under Chambers’s guidance, for instance, Exodus canceled its sponsorship of the 2010 “Day of Truth” — an event that asks high schoolers to wear t-shirts promoting “the biblical truth for sexuality.” Gay teenager Tyler Clementi had just committed suicide, and Chambers told CNN that “all the recent attention to bullying helped us realize that we need to equip kids to live out biblical tolerance and grace. More recently, Chambers publicly rejected reparative therapy — a school of counseling that aims to make gay people straight. At the Gay Christian Network Conference in January of this year, Chambers told the audience that “99.9 percent of [Exodus participants]
have not experienced a change in their orientation.” Around the same time, he pulled all reparative therapy books from the Exodus bookstore.”
“One of Exodus’s policy statements promises that the group will “stand with the LGBT community both in spirit, and when necessary, legally and physically, when violence rears its head in Uganda, Jamaica, or anywhere else in the world.” It’s no coincidence that those particular countries are mentioned. Just last month, Exodus board member Dennis Jernigan traveled to Jamaica, where homosexuality is a crime, and urged the country not to change its laws. In 2009, another board member gave a speech in Uganda that inspired a Christian campaign to make homosexuality punishable by death. ‘Alan has said there will be proofs and amends,” Bussee told me. “We’re still watching and waiting for those.” (On Friday, the day after we spoke, Exodus sent out a press release distancing itself from Jernigan’s statements and announcing his resignation from the board)
Then follows a lengthy interview based on theological principles I disagree with.
I like the change that has been brought to recognise reparitive therapy is damaging and that the Uganda situation is immoral and illegal. However, there is still an inherent view that homosexuality is wrong, sinful and deserves to be treated with fewer civil rights than other humans due to how they born. Exodus has made progress- but still a place to go.
thx for the informative post Stu
Of course we cannot be cured. We do Not have anything that needs curing.
It’s hateful attitudes that needs to be cured. Cured from the harm and disrespect they cause.
They see sham marriages as preferable?
How can that be beneficial for anyone?
It’s a form of hypocrisy of course.
for someone raised in a strictly christian community it may appear to be the only option they have, or they lose their whole social network… sad as that may seem to us. They put their faith lives before their sexual lives. Ultimately it’s their choice. For someone such as myself who has rejected the religious meme it is hard to accept that it is a healthy choice, but if you are held captive by the god delusion it may not look like hypocrisy but rather a symbol of the depth of your spiritual commitment.
Yes, you are right of course. Anyone not complyiing in the circumstances you describe could be burdened with a sense of guilt for life, unless they are truly free and strong spirits.
Eloquent post, SkepChik. I actually feel sorry for people like that – that is, people I personally see as trapped by their faith. I know they wouldn’t see it like that, but for me, thinking about how they might struggle and beat themselves up about their perfectly normal sexuality is upsetting. If they’re happy, then that’s OK, but I’d guess many of them aren’t.
It’s not people who believe being gay is wrong that I get annoyed with, nor do the comments I made above really apply to them. It’s more the people who seem OBSESSED with gayness that annoy me. Say you believe it’s wrong and move on to something else – like poverty, for example.
People who constantly and obsessively think about LGBT people clearly have a problem – either an issue with their own sexuality, or a general insecurity that makes them pick on others and designate them as lesser to make themselves feel better.
I’m not saying it’s right but I can’t help feeling they see themselves trapped by their sexuality and freed by their faith.
That should explain why the likes of Aiden and that Keith guy are like what they are ….because they are really happy Hetrosexuals lol
So if this Mr Chambers Guy ,said he used to be Gay ,but he is in an Hetrosexual Marridge , and knows Gays can’t be Cured,so he must have same sex attraction ,and still have his wicked way with other Men .
Or he’s simply bisexual but conveniently neglected to mention that. This is what happens when bisexuality is so severely stigmatised that it’s thoroughly common for its existence to be completely ignored: people make ludicrous claims that only make sense in a world where everyone is either 100% or 100% straight, and not in reality.
Yeah I forgot to mention that he could be Bisexual in the last post .
It writes that claims ,that he’s happy in a Hetrosexual marriage ,but it doesn’t say if he loves his wife sexually/emotionally .
So I’m guessing ,the reason why he’s more happy in hetrosexual marriage is because to him ,he’s more accepted that way .
Could be wrong though .
Still awaiting any of them admitting transsexualism can only be cured by transition. All of their reparative therapy techniques were first invented – with US government funding – to “cure” boys they thought might be transsexual, which they saw as extreme homosexuality. Then they had us listed as mentally ill when homosexuality was removed. Our still being so listed, and LGB groups not even seeing abuse of us as being reparative therapy, is a huge betrayal.
The very idea that anyone even believes that there can be a ‘cure’ for something that’s not even a ‘disease’ is ridiculous. Do they think we could turn them all gay with ‘reparative therapy’? They clearly know that’s impossible, yet they consistently patronise and demean gay people as being ‘lost’, ‘confused’ or ‘misguided’. Being gay is totally natural. It’s as natural to us as being straight is to them.