It amazes me that countries of the former soviet bloc, which fought so hard for their own independence and liberty, are now even contemplating denying the same very rights to its own citizens.
How can they justify and rationalize the inequality and discrimination of their LGBT population, for demanding and wanting the same freedoms that they now enjoy?
If it had become law, 8711 would make all public discussion of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender issues illegal, and be no better than its former governors.
To allow ex-soviet countries to continue their homophobia and state bullying against its LGBT population, is itself but a crime, and we can no longer remain a silent voice towards this injustice, and having witnessed the effects and ramifications of such laws it needed to be protested strongly.
This is a victory not only for Ukraine’s LGBTs but also for campaigners and activist who have shown that through petitions, direct involvement and an on hands approach, things can be mad
Is it not clear that the Ukraine like other eastern countries is exercising its new found freedom of religion? The very popular orthodox church is at the root of the problem. It is perhaps worse than the catholic church for the number of homosexuals in its leadership, with a severe moralistic view that deflects attention away from itself. Churches the world over are known for their hypocrisy and the eastern church has not grown up with the modern world having been put on ice during the soviet years. The rate of change in the orthodox church is the slowest of all the christian denominations. It’s the church we should be critisising.
“It amazes me that countries of the former soviet bloc, which fought so hard for their own independence and liberty, are now even contemplating denying the same very rights to its own citizens.” Hmmm….
It amazes me that people dont realise that Ukraine and other countries of the former Soviet block have had rather a lot of things on their plate since Independence in 1989/1991 which was the first opportunity they had to start talking freely about ANYTHING as well as smply recovering from the economic and social devastation of the Soviet totalitarian regime. I dont want homophobia any more than anyone-else but why would this process be any quicker than say the 40 years it took in the UK – a settled democracy with freedom of speech and all the basics of democracy well established?
It amazes me that this kind of legislation was actually LAW here in the UK for FIFTEEN YEARS- and only repealed as recently as NINE years ago! At least it will probably now NEVER be law in the Ukraine.
Vile as Section 28 was, this legislation is much more sweeping and dangerous.
Section 28 was civil law (not criminal), applied only to local councils, and only prohibited them from “promoting” homosexuality – whatever that meant. Even when Section 28 was in force, many local councils continued to provide some support to gay groups, employ anti-discrimination officers etc.
This proposed Ukrainian legislation creates a criminal offence, applies to everyone, and covers all positive discussion of gay people. It would ban pride parades, meetings by gay people, academic conferences or public protest. It would, effectively, criminalise normal free speech by gay people and criminalise any attempt by LGB Ukrainians to discuss their rights, draw attention to anti-gay violence, or to protest against this law. It is a terrifying violation of human rights of the most unsubtle and far-reaching kind, and it should disturb deeply every person who cares about the Ukraine, regardless of sexuality.
” criminalise normal free speech by gay people” – a great summary just one small thing..it will make it illegal for ANYONE gay straight or totally non-sexual to tell the TRUTH… neither 8711 nor 10,290 will be discriminatory in that respect…it iwill apply to ALL Ukrainian citizens EQUALLY!
All Out says that they suspect that Ukraine will try to get the law passed in September.
Gosh that’s not hard to work out is it? Of course they will vote on it in the autumn, it is a miracle we got 2 months respite. They made a perfectly sensible strategic retreat…and that’s good news because if they do one sensible thing they might be open to doing another. What I can tell you is that any number of ordinary people and officials I spoke to *don’t* want this law.
Dear John, it is a strategic retreat, they had a great success with Euro2012 and it would have been pure madness to vote and invite all that negative publicity just when they had had such a success. But at least it gives us 2 months time to engage sensibly and respectfully with Ukrainian officials.
I am so proud, that this poor country, who became Orthodox Christianity from Konstantinopolis, is a little more tolerant towards LGBT people than have suspect.
Cold feet, perhaps?
a perfectly sensible strategic retreat….
I am very proud, that Ukraine, who became Orthodox Christianity from Byzantine Empire, is a little more tolerant towards LGBT people, as I have thinking. Good luck.
Good news indeed. But I do not trust the Ukraine Government. They need to be watched carefully.
It is perfectly obvious that they made a perfectly sensible decision that Euro2012 had been such a great success and they didnt want an immediate bad news story. But you know what even 2 months respite is 2 months respite. It is a sensible strategic decision from their point of view and I found that Ukrainian officials were perfectly sensible when you simply had a respecting conversation with them. Accusing people of bad faith isnt a great way to get them to come round to your way of thinking. These laws are based on sincere if misinformed beliefs!
This great news is way better than Euro 2012 being held at Ukraine. After all, LGBT rights is the civil rights advocacy of the decade. I hope the gay folks in Ukraine will be okay.
It was a GREAT decision to hold Euro2012 in Poland and Ukraine. In the 3 cities I saw Kyiv (nice to spell the name of the city correctly on the basis that of you respect people and their identity, they might start respecting you and your identity) Kharkiv and Donetsk, the arrangements were EXCELLENT and the Ukrainian people I met were unusually hospitable. And it gave me lots of lovely opportunities to talk to ordinary Ukrainian people about “homosexuality” and LGBT+ people and some of them were pretty cool abut it. Maybe westerners need to look at some of their prejudices about Ukrainians, I certainly had a few surprises…in a GOOD way!
I am so proud, that Ukraine, who became Orthodox Christianity straight from Byzantine Empire, is a little more tolerant towards LGBT people than, for example, Russia. Good so!
I found plenty of tolerance and positive LGBT friendliness, people just need a chance to meet ordinary LGBT+ people and not be harangued about things they cant possibly know about and then they can be fine.
I also had a GREAT meeting with a Russian in the Fan Zone in Donetsk (E Ukraine) and after a lovely evening together with his friends, he had paid for my dinner and everything he started talking about my husband so I simply corrected him and said nicely “my wife”…it took him a little while and some encouraging nods from me to get there and after a while I said “Da ya lesbianka”quielty and then a few moments later he put his big Russian arms around me in the warmest of embraces and I have a gorgeous photo of us together…. him with his Russian flag and me with my rainbow flag…in a public space in Donetsk.
I also took a special rainbow flag to the Quarter and Semi Finals in Donetsk and had plenty of encouraging smiles and requests for photos and even Ukrainian gay guys coming for their special souvenir photos of them photoed with a rainbow flag in their own city of Donetsk. And the Semi final was extra special because it was 27/28 June ie the night of Stonewall and so since the Spanish were celebrating I joined in and had a lovely 15 minutes parade inside the stadium running all around and yelling HAPPY PRIDE at the top of my voice. Lots of lovely signs about RESPECT and Diversity and they would have looked silly to arrest St Georgina and her very gormless dragon!
The people of the city of Kharkiv were not only very tolerant, but also positively gay-friendly. There I was with my rainbow flag on the Dutch Orange parade TWICE, 3-4km from the FanZone to the Metlaist stadium…and I couldn’t go two paces with out Ukrainians asking me for photos with flag and championship mascots in suitable and very loving embrace… they LOVED it. I think they got the hang of parades in Kharkiv and might want to do it again next year!
It hasnt been cancelled, simply postponed…it was all but the last day of the parliamentary session in the Verhovna Rada (Parliament) and it made sense to postpone it.