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Updated: Scottish government has not delayed marriage equality decision

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  1. Show of hands, is anyone actually surprised?

    … I didn’t think so.

  2. Disappointing.

    Someone is lacking the balls to make the decision or is u8nder a lot of pressure to make the wrong decision.

    This stinks or curruption in my view.

  3. Shameful and frightening.

  4. What do they require further detail on? Between the Scottish and coalition government, this is turning into a bit of a farce, whilst the world moves much more quickly on such things (France is putting the governments to shame) Poor reflection on SNP – so much for leadership!

  5. Could be the Scottish government is being leaned on by politicians in London. If Scotland says yes it will have obvious implications for the rest of the UK

    1. Really dont think that is the issue – the SNP have shown themselves to not be leaned on by Westminister.

      If there is leaning it is either Souter, the RC church or both.

      Its a mess. Its becoming a farce.

      Its clear Scotland wants equal marriage – why then do the SNP government lack the moral fibre and courage to make the right decision to ensure civil and human rights equality?

      Are the SNP really as brazenly weak and foolish as this episode makes them appear?

    2. Jock S. Trap 4 Jul 2012, 3:09pm

      Sorry dave, I don’t see that at all. Alex Salmon would make issue of if that was the case in no uncertain terms.

    3. If the Scot Gov decide not to legislate for equal marriage, it won’t be because of London. If Cameron tried to tell Salmond what to do, he’d do the exact opposite and make sure everyone knew about it.

      Like Stu says, I’m more worried about the Catholic Church, Souter and this idea that surfaced a couple of months ago that the SNP are risking their independence referendum if they go ahead with equal marriage and might decide to postpone it until afterwards. Personally, I think it’s a lot of rubbish and it won’t affect the independence referendum at all, but I’ve heard that even SNP members who agree with marriage equality are getting worried about it, and they’ll choose independence over marriage equality in a second.

      As I’ve said before, even my own local SNP MSP has already backtracked to being in favour of marriage equality and intending to vote for it to now being undecided “due to various issues raised” since the consultation started. How many more will do the same?

  6. Tim Hopkins 4 Jul 2012, 2:53pm

    PLEASE NOTE – this story is incorrect. The Scottish Govt spokesperson made an error and told the journalist August when they should have said July. The Scottish Govt is now saying clearly that they expect to announce the way forward in July.

    1. Other news outlets are giving the same story as PN.

      This just adds to the farce, if your information is correct – and who knows with all the smoke and mirrors the Scottish Government are using in this.

      What they have succeeded in is creating an impression (whether true or not) that they are frightened to introduce equal marriage – an impression that they are in cahoots with the militant anti-gay brigade and the impression that they are unable to organise the preverbial visit to a brewery.

      If your information is correct, the errors of the Scottish government spokesman underlines these impressions of incompetence.

      1. Tim Hopkins 4 Jul 2012, 3:10pm

        What actually happened was that a Scottish Govt statement that was given to press at the end of last week, that said “We fully expect to be in a position to publish the way ahead [on same-sex marriage] next month,” was reissued to a journalist this morning without the word “next” being updated to “this” to reflect the fact the July started on Sunday!

        The Scottish Government statement has now been updated to read “We fully expect to be in a position to publish the way ahead this month.”

        1. Fair enough.

          Good to see the update in the body of text of the story too.

          However, it still smacks of incompetence by the Scottish Government in how this has been handled.

          1. This mix-up (which Tim explains and I accept that explanation) could easily have been avoided if the Scottish Government had given specific dates all along instead of constantly giving vague time frames such as spring, late spring, next month and so on.

    2. It looks like we’re being a bit paranoid innit

  7. Tim Hopkins 4 Jul 2012, 2:57pm

    I have emaile PN to ask for this story to be corrected! It’s July not August. The Scottish Govt spokesperson incorrectly told the journalist, Dan, July this morning, but they have since issued a correction and say July.

  8. Absolutely disgusting.

    There is no excuse for this delay.

    The only acceptable outcome of this unnecessary consultation is a clearly idefined timetable for marriage equality within the next 12 months.

    If the SNP decide that they are not willing to implement marriage equality, then it is stating quite clearly that Scottish independence should be opposed by LGBT people and our friends and family.

    1. Apparently the SNP are getting worried that supporting marriage equality and legislating for it will stop people (homophobic bigots) voting for independence! It’s been suggested that they could decide to postpone marriage equality until after the independence referendum, although that’s just rumour at the moment.

      1. I suspect they will lose more votes if they are seen to be only capable of managing a farce and incapable of making a decision!

        1. I honestly think they have a lot more votes to lose by NOT going ahead with equal marriage. But the anti-marriage side tend to have louder voices and it makes them seem much more numerous than they are in reality. I just hope the SG realise this too.

  9. Suddenly Last Bummer 4 Jul 2012, 3:00pm

    The guy on the right in the pic looks very clingy.

    1. He looks hot!

  10. This is ridiculous!
    If they can’t even stick to a specific date what exactly CAN they do?

    It better be a positive result for making everyone wait.

  11. Jock S. Trap 4 Jul 2012, 3:07pm

    No excuse for delays, just do and equalise Marriage already!

  12. Robert in S. Kensington 4 Jul 2012, 3:17pm

    And we can brace ourselves for a similar situation in England. How embarrassing that France has now taken the lead, no consultation, just a parliamentary debate, no bigoted House of Lords to contend with simply because their government doesn’t permit religious clerics to meddle in politics or get a say in who is entitled to rights. At least France has a true democracy while we’re controlled by an unelected body of people who don’t represent us and who can deny us our rights. There is something intrinsically wrong about that especially when one’s religious beliefs are allowed to trample on the rights of others even though a supposed majority of MPs support equal marriage. It just isn’t right, fair or democatic.

  13. Tim Hopkins 4 Jul 2012, 4:01pm

    Of course the big question is: what will be the way ahead that the Scottish Govt will publish later this month?

    Will it be a bill for marriage equality, consulted on in draft form later this year, and in the Scottish Parliament in 2013?

    Or will it be “we’re not doing anything until after our independence referendum” (which would mean 2015 at the earliest)?

    Or will it be something else?

    No-one knows, which is why it’s really important for people to keep emailing MSPs and signing the equal marriage petition, both of which you can easily do from here:

    http://www.equalmarriage.org.uk/takeaction

    1. I’ve already e-mailed all my MSPs long ago and 5 of the 8 support it – but I’ve been very disappointed in my local SNP constituency MSP already backtracking on it, and I’ve got an e-mail proving this. I just hope she’s the only one.

  14. Still trying to talk Souter round I expect! Don’t hold your breath- he ain’t going to change his outdated ideas- I can tell them that now.

    1. Let’s just hope he doesn’t influence the Scottish Government on this matter!

  15. So the Scottish Government will make their decision in July, which is good news. But will it still be on 10 July or on 17 July as some reports have suggested?

    Also, I still don’t understand why they didn’t make a decision to legislate right at the start of the consultation process, after all, the Scottish Government are in favour of marriage equality, aren’t they?

    They could have said at the beginning that they would definitely legislate and could still have held a consultation about the details of legislating.

    Instead, they said they supported it but decided to hold a consultation asking if they should legislate for it altogether – not when, not how, but if. When has any government ever done that for a policy it supports?

    This whole matter has been handled very badly by the Scottish Government.

  16. But it says in the article that the decision hasnt been delayed. Stating that the next month statement was refering to something said in June. ?

    1. I think the article initially reported a delay by the SG because that’s what Pink News was led to believe but then they updated the article afterwards to correct it. Most comments were probably submitted before it had been updated.

      I only read it for the first time myself after it had already been updated, so it is a little confusing!

      1. Thats right, BennieM

        The Scottish government cocked up and said something they did not intend to PN. PN reasonably reported it and then updated the article when the error was identified.

        1. Thanks for explaining, Stu. I realise this was probably just a mix up by the SG but the longer it all drags on, the more worried I get that the SG will decide to drop it. I really hope they do decide to go for it in the end! I hate all this uncertainty!

          1. Yeah i agree, im counting down the days until the 10th of July!!. Hopefully there wont be another delay.

          2. Tim Hopkins 5 Jul 2012, 7:30am

            Charlie unfortunately I think you’ll need to count further than that. For a couple of days, there have been reports that the Cabinet meeting to discuss this will be July 17th, not 10th. And that doesn’t mean there’ll be an announcement on 17th! All the Govt have actually said about the date of the announcement is “this month”.

  17. Gemma Gillon 4 Jul 2012, 11:59pm

    I warned and warned and warned the people in the Scots LGBT that the SNP would do this, hell I even put a real bet on it and looks like I am winning. The SNP will sell the gay community down the river. As for the heads of the LGBT, Well the last time I checked the charity regulator over £1,000,000 is given to them in government grants from Edinburgh. Would you piss off your benefactors too much ?

    1. Gemma Gillon 5 Jul 2012, 12:01am

      LGBT and anything LGBT is big business and good PR but that’s all it is, its never really been about changing the life’s of others. Look at the parade of gay people in the gov pay roll who came out AGAINST it.

      1. Gemma Gillon 5 Jul 2012, 12:15am

        How do you exsplain the scale down at London pride ? Was that not done by an LGBT chairman ? Wonder while during a time of olympics thsi guy suddenly decided to scale it back and Brois decideds not to take part. Could it be LGBT are being pushed aside by a band of political nutjobs and some morons in the LGBT who are given perks are willfully going along with it as long as there A OK ?

      2. The SNP leadership are not homophobs its true that there may some individual members who are but that’s in every political party in the world . The SNP are trying to gather as much evidence as they can so that when they make a decision they dont get accused of being completely biased by the opposing organizations and coming across as un-government like. The reason its taking so long is because the marriage consultation was the most responded to consultation since devolution in 1999 with over 50,000+ responses that need to be verified and checked as being valid. So guess it would take a long time to analyse the range of questions in the consultation thoroughly and then try to come to announce a decision.

        1. Sorry that was supposed to be a reply to the previous comment Sorry. :(

          1. Gemma Gillon 5 Jul 2012, 12:39am

            Did they pay you to say that ? Really ? Let me quote Kenneth Gunn SNP ‘Gays are damnd to hell ‘ Nationalists never done anything good for the gay community. Look at Germany.

          2. No i am an individual how do i know someone didnt pay you to say something. ? What about the tories or labour members that have said homophobic comments in the past.

          3. I’ve also been very critical of the SNP since I stopped voting for them in 2007 when they happily accepted Souter’s money. There have been other instances of the SNP not dealing with homophobia within the party or siding with the Catholic Church over gay equality and I think the leadership really need to sort it out. But despite their muted attitude towards equal marriage and all the delays so far, it’s still possible they’ll decide to legislate for it. I’ll be very disappointed but not surprised if they do drop it, but the fat lady hasn’t started singing quite yet so there’s still hope.

  18. If there was separation of church and state in the UK then it could be much easier to tell religious cults to stop interfering in civil matters.

    sadly separation of church and state is not a reality in the UK.

    1. I very much agree with you. :)

  19. Kevin Donnelly 6 Jul 2012, 5:12am

    Very doubtful if Brian Soutar has that much influence among the contingency of SNP MSPs.

    Frankly the Party will take his money (as all do) but his interests ultimately lie in the business climate of an independent Scotland – not who’s getting married to whom.

    Having said that, there is doubtless significant pressure from the Churches (Catholic & Protestant)… and I suspect one reason for delay would be to see which way the wind is blowing elsewhere in the UK – then to stride out on a Scottish “beacon of enlightenment” against a dark and backward England – or to present it as an inevitable if the rest of the UK looks to be heading that way.

    Either way, Salmond is a canny and astute political operator – he personally supports equal marriage – (as do most normal thinking people) and will deploy his skills to achieve it without that impacting on the independence referendum.

  20. Kevin Donnelly 6 Jul 2012, 5:13am

    Very doubtful if Brian Soutar has that much influence among the contingency of SNP MSPs.

    Frankly the Party will take his money (as all do) but his interests ultimately lie in the business climate of an independent Scotland – not who’s getting married to whom.

    Having said that, there is doubtless significant pressure from the Churches (Catholic & Protestant)… and I suspect one reason for delay would be to see which way the wind is blowing elsewhere in the UK – then to stride out on a Scottish “beacon of enlightenment” against a dark and backward England – or to present it as an inevitable if the rest of the UK looks to be heading that way.

    Either way, Salmond is a canny and astute political operator – he personally supports equal marriage – (as do most normal thinking people) and will deploy his skills to achieve it without that impacting onthe independence referendum.

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